Do You Consider Woodworkers Artists?

[Rich Riddle]

A woman was talking to me and looked at a few things made through the years. She commented that she wish she knew an artist who could do work like mine. My dad, a professional commercial artist, probably would laugh for days if he heard that. I never really considered woodworking, at least at my level, as art. Do you consider woodworkers artists?

[Mike Henderson]

Woodworkers can be artists. Unfortunately, not everyone has that talent and I think it's difficult to teach someone how to be an artist. Many woodworkers can build to a set of plans and do an excellent job. But trying to design a piece of furniture that is useful and beautiful (and "new") is not a talent many people have.

Mike

[Jim Koepke]

This is the best way to understand this to my way of thinking.

I first saw this attributed to St Francis of Assisi. I have since seen it also attributed to others:
(I have updated it slightly)


One who works with their hands is a laborer.
One who works with their hands and mind is a craftsperson.
but the one who works with their hands, their mind and their heart is an artist.

Woodworkers and for that matter anyone can be any of the above, it is all in how much of yourself you put into your work.

jtk

[glenn bradley]

Some are. Of course I feel the same way about "artists"; some are. :D

[Rich Riddle]

Some are. Of course I feel the same way about "artists"; some are. :D


Quite the humorous retort. I like it.

[Erik Loza]

Woodworkers can be artists. Unfortunately, not everyone has that talent and I think it's difficult to teach someone how to be an artist. Many woodworkers can build to a set of plans and do an excellent job. But trying to design a piece of furniture that is useful and beautiful (and "new") is not a talent many people have.

Mike

My take, as well, and I will add that just because a woodworker makes something "artistic", it does not necessarily make that person a good artist or good wooodworker. I love planting in my yard but I'm neither a landscape designer nor can create one of those beautiful gardens. But as long as you enjoy what you do, who really cares?

Erik

[Frank Drew]

If the object made, however beautiful, has a practical purpose (e.g. a chair), then I'd consider the maker an artisan (or craftsman), doing applied art, but I don't rank fine art higher than applied art in any hypothetical listing of occupations. I'd be perfectly happy if someone called me a fine craftsman or artisan.

[Greg Peterson]

I think we would need to determine the definition of artist. Mike comes close, IMO.
I think woodworkers are by their nature curious, creative, inventive and mechanically adept.
Design is a rare talent.

[Mike Null]

To Glenn's point I've seen a lot of paintings that I would have a hard time calling art. Having a brush and a canvas does not make one an artist.

But I've certainly seen pieces of woodworking, even on this site, that I would call art. Derek Cohen's work comes to mind, among others. It's even more plentiful over on the turner's forum.

[John Blazy]

You guys have nailed it well. Yet many really put their heart into fine craftsmanship, like gapless hand cut dovetails, so I would consider that aspect putting art into the furniture. However the main definition to me (majored in furniture design at RIT, critiques by Wendall Castle, published in FWW mag Design Book Six, several other national awards), is making something with some degree of originality, generally speaking of design, and / or unique material never used before, etc.

Originality is easy. Originality while being aesthetically pleasing is quite hard. I can easily be original if I made a pine coffee table and intentionally imprinted a skull into the woodgrain and then stained it with human blood to make some sort of "statement". But that would not be aesthetically original. See how easily I came up that idea? Just off the top of my head. To do originality that is innovative and aesthetically pleasing is wayyyy harder. Requires more heart, then mind, then all the physical energy to execute it.

Example: My first real woodworking masterpiece was a hand carved oak chest below, that I did in 1981. It really isn't art, as I was inspired by acanthus leafage carving, and I simply did my own interpretation, so the art is in my variation, my desire to carve well balanced panels, and the craftsmanship.

Then fast forward 30 years later, and now I laminate dichroic films to glass, which is somewhat original, and nobody EVER made hall mirrors with dichroic glass, and this design, inspired by Miami Beach Deco, is pretty well original - with heart, and with craftsmanship that is also original.

342540342541342542

Then later I make a laminate that is identical to the gemstone Opal, and any product I make with it is original art, in that there has never been a mirror frame ever created in the world that has sheet opal for a frame. And I REALLY put my heart into this + $100K of R & D.

342543

[Jim Becker]

Woodworkers can be artists. Unfortunately, not everyone has that talent and I think it's difficult to teach someone how to be an artist. Many woodworkers can build to a set of plans and do an excellent job. But trying to design a piece of furniture that is useful and beautiful (and "new") is not a talent many people have.


My thoughts are similar to Mike's. Craftsmanship and artistry are somewhat subjective things, too.

[Wayne Lomman]

It's not something that has a definite answer. Artists can work with any medium. The final judgement is for others to make in the future. As for me? I am a bloke who makes good stuff that I leave up to the buyer to decide what they have bought. Cheers

[Karl Andersson]

In my opinion, it does really boil down to "what is an artist". I had a fork in the road imposed on me early in life: Transfer to the Art Institute of Chicago, or continue pursuing my Biology degrees. .

During my decision process, I read many articles about the current "big" artists - those that were in the news instead of those slogging around the summer art fair circuits barely getting by. The thing the bigs had in common to me was that it seemed most spent more time coming up with the titles of their "artwork" than they did using any skill to make it. I wanted to learn traditional sculpture and painting skills. Protest and angst have their place, but to me, art should be perfectly designed and executed in the craftsmanship, and the design should make sense to the brain. That's why early cubism is art to me (although far from reality), whereas a fetus in a jar is not. This kind of explanation-dependent "artist", along with my cheerful dad telling me I'd spend my life in poverty making things based on other people's ideas (customers, etc.) instead of mine, made me stay with science studies. And Mapplethorpe and Judy Chicago just gave me the creeps.

I'm not sure that most people today understand the nuances in the difference between craftsman, artisan, and artist to be able to say whether something they see is a work of art or a fine example of craftsmanship. There's so little stuff out there that has had real effort (design, execution) applied to it, that a good example of any of these nowadays is noticeably more "artistic". Whether that makes a woodworker an artist is basically in the eye of the beholder; many times we're right on the edge. Other times we should put the beret away and focus.
Karl

[Charles Wiggins]

As one who studied "art" for 10 years and holds both a Bachelor of Fine Arts and an Master of Fine Arts here's my take.

I agree with much of what has been said already. As a woodworker, a person can be both an artist and a craftsman, or one or the other, or neither.

The dividing line between artist and craftsman is the creativity involved in the design of the work and the conversation between the artist and the work.

The creation of art tends to be a very narcissistic process in that, at its core, art is an internal dialogue carried out through an external medium. The artist is trying to work out some philosophical, existential, or intellectual problem. That is why they are called, "works of art." The finished product is not the art, the art is in the making. The art is the process.

A craftsman's focus is the end product. The technical detail. How things fit together. What are the processes needed to arrive at the finished product? Not that there is not creativity in craftsmanship, but the focus of that creativity is the end product itself.

Very often artistry and craftsmanship coincide, but they do not have to. Some very famous artists were lousy craftsmen.

Sol Lewitt (https://cognitivegeometrics.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/sculpture-sol-lewitt-sentences-on-conceptual-art/) is famous for his minimalist studies of cubes, but I once saw one of his pieces in the Hirshhorn Museum (http://hirshhorn.si.edu/collection/home/#collection=home) and I was surprised by how bad his craftsmanship was. The piece was made of wood and painted white. Some of the joints had gaps and nothing was sanded smooth before it was painted.

Jackson Pollock (http://www.jackson-pollock.org/) is famous for his large "action paintings (http://www.jackson-pollock.org/lavender-mist.jsp)," but he very often used house paint because it was cheaper and he used so much of it, but now his paintings are deteriorating because house paint is not designed to endure for centuries like artist paint formulas are.

An artisan, by definition is a high-level skilled craftsman, so there are no lousy artisans, again, by definition. But an artisan could be a lousy artist I suppose.

[Chris Damm]

Some are but I'm a glorified carpenter.

[John Blazy]

Good descriptions, Charles.



The dividing line between artist and craftsman is the creativity involved in the design of the work and the conversation between the artist and the work.
Oversimplified, If one can see the evidence of creativity, its art.

The artist is trying to work out some philosophical, existential, or intellectual problem.
This is true, but I would add one of the most obvious motivations of many common artists. We passionately execute our art because we LIKE it. It looks so freakin COOL to bend that "S" curve, or inlay that stip of stainless in a neo deco way, or whatever - you get the point. It appeals to my aesthetic, and hopefully the viewer's. Now whats controversial and difficult is creating a beautiful piece that encompasses common aesthetic, yet still original. An example of a common aesthetic is utilizing classic motifs like wave forms, balanced curves, Golden ratio, Fibonacci, harmonic or geometric series gradations, intentional complimentary color use of green to set off red woods, etc. plus an endless list any good artist can come up with. You might say that utilizing these common aesthetic motifs make for "pleasing" art, but they really are not original, because they tap into existing motifs. True, but new materials and technology, coupled with outside-the-box thinking allow "originality" by applying these old laws of aesthetics into new manifestations.

A craftsman's focus is the end product. The technical detail. How things fit together. What are the processes needed to arrive at the finished product? Not that there is not creativity in craftsmanship, but the focus of that creativity is the end product itself. Very good answer.



An artisan, by definition is a high-level skilled craftsman, so there are no lousy artisans, again, by definition. Excellent. But an artisan could be a lousy artist I suppose. - this point was drilled home when I majored in furniture design at RIT - and we put it this way: "Excellent design can be ruined by bad craftsmanship, and no amount of stellar craftsmanship will make up for hideous design"

[Art Mann]

My reply as a practicing woodworker and career electrical engineer is this. I am in no shape, form or fashion an artist. The best I can do is recognize good design when I see it. I aspire to excellent craftsmanship. My wife was a professional graphic designer and artist for around 30 years. She does most of the design work that becomes my CNC router products. Other people think they are artistic.

[Wade Lippman]

A woman was talking to me and looked at a few things made through the years. She commented that she wish she knew an artist who could do work like mine. My dad, a professional commercial artist, probably would laugh for days if he heard that. I never really considered woodworking, at least at my level, as art. Do you consider woodworkers artists?

About the same percentage of woodworkers are artists as are commercial artists. A few are, but most just do stuff and the public can't tell the difference.

[Frederick Skelly]

Woodworkers can be artists. Unfortunately, not everyone has that talent and I think it's difficult to teach someone how to be an artist.

+1. I think several of you qualify as artists, for example George Wilson, John Blazy and Derek Cohen.
Me? I'm "decent", but will never be called a Craftsman, much less an Artist.

Fred

[John T Barker]

I've always considered the difference to be that the artist is expressing themselves, the artisan is not. I've always thought highly of the distinction between form vs. function. In my head the craftsman and artisan are working on a piece which focuses on function, even though it may have some decoration. The artist is focusing on form, his expression, while anything the piece "does" is secondary.

[John Stankus]

Do you consider painters artists?

[John T Barker]

Do you consider painters artists?

I had the pleasure of knowing an artist who occupied a studio on the same property where I rented my woodshop space. He was educated at the Philadelphia School of Art and we had many discussions about what was art. We visited an art show of local unknown artists of various kinds and had a discussion about a painter that had painted using a photograph as his "inspiration" (he was looking at a photograph when he put paint to the canvas.) My friend could see this in the painting and shared that he did not see this as artistic, which I would agree with as the artist was not expressing themselves in the piece. Another example was a different painter friend, a woman who was very experienced painting clock faces and furniture, that showed me a painting she was doing. It was a copy of a favorite of hers and she used an art book as her reference. The copy was spot on but clearly she was not being expressive, just extremely talented.

[Robert Engel]

I think craftsmanship and artistry are, of necessity linked. You really can't be one with out being the other.
One refers to the hand/eye mechanics the other mainly design.

An expert craftsman knows there is an art to using hand tools.

An artist knows he can't create anything without craftsmanship.

[jack duren]

Depends on who labels you....