WOOD I.D. Help

[Ricc Havens]

I was told this was maple. I know it's not silver maple as I had a silver maple tree taken down in my yard a couple years ago and this isn't the same as I had back then. The guy I got this from said it was maple.

I know there are all different kinds of maple like hard maple, black maple, red maple, sycamore maple, norway etc.

I'm assuming it's hard maple but just want to confirm that with your help.

Thanks
Ricc Havens
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[Reed Gray]

Quite probably maple. Do be very careful with this piece. There are black lines that follow the growth rings, especially the smaller one near the center, and the one in the middle. They could be ring shake, which can release/come apart when turning. The outer dark ring may or may not be the same thing, but a weakness in the wood for sure.

robo hippy

[Prashun Patel]

That maple looks fairly well gone. I hate to waste wood but just beware.

[CHARLES D Richards]

if you were down in here south Georgia I would guess it could be sweet gum or black gum. Without the leaves it's tough to tell. Indiana area, that's above my pay grade :-). We don't have maple that looks like that in the deep south (at least none that I've ever seen)

[Mark Greenbaum]

Maybe box elder (ash-leaf maple), or maybe Japanese Maple (I have a 60 year old tree in my yard that has red-heart wood).

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I was told this was maple. I know it's not silver maple as I had a silver maple tree taken down in my yard a couple years ago and this isn't the same as I had back then. The guy I got this from said it was maple.

I know there are all different kinds of maple like hard maple, black maple, red maple, sycamore maple, norway etc.

I'm assuming it's hard maple but just want to confirm that with your help.

Thanks
Ricc Havens
342388342389

Ricc I’m certain you have Norway Maple wood there, I have turned some and one tree from my neighbor that had this dark coloration, (had a loose center but was sound other than that part) I have some pictures of it and a picture of one bowl of that wood that gave me second price in faceplate turning at the London wood show.

Here the bark of Norway Maple and the leaves and seeds.
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This shows the wood with the dark coloration and the loose center.
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Here are the rough turned bowls and the price winner.
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Added a picture of hard Maple bark (Sugar Maple) showing young, older, and old tree bark, Sugar Maple has very often more plate like bark on big old trees, I had to get this off the net as I didn’t have a good picture of Sugar Maple bark.
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[John K Jordan]

I was told this was maple. I know it's not silver maple as I had a silver maple tree taken down in my yard a couple years ago and this isn't the same as I had back then. The guy I got this from said it was maple.

Many woods look alike in the log or board. The color and figure can vary wildly with the specific tree. The bark is good to have but a leaf would be better. Some species have a distinctive smell. Some fluoresce under UV light. A closeup look at the rings can narrow things down. Diffuse or ring porous, early and latewood pore structure, presence of tyloses, visibility of rays? Slice the end grain cleanly with a razor blade and examine at about 10x (or give it to someone who can.) Hoadley's book "Identifying Wood" has instructions and photomicrographs for comparison as does the online Wood Database. This can take you from wild speculation to "almost sure."

If being correct is worth the effort for this piece the US government's forest products Laboratory will ID up to 5 samples a year for any US citizen. Or just do what many people do and decide on a species and label it so. Most people who see it up close won't know the difference and those who do will probably keep it to themselves. It IS humorous to see a ring-'porous bowl with Cherry written on the bottom.

JKJ

[Mark Greenbaum]

Leo - how did you ever turn that bowl with the handles?

[daryl moses]

Leo - how did you ever turn that bowl with the handles?
I was wondering the same thing. Can you let us in on your technique Leo?

[Ricc Havens]

Thanks guys for the input, especially for the safety concerns about the ring shake! I will definitely proceed with caution!

Thanks
Ricc Havens

[John K Jordan]

Leo can answer about his, but in general bowls with handles and feet are turned with extra wood then carved away. Sometimes you can make finishing cuts on the lathe by rotating the piece back and forth by hand while cutting with the gouge as if the wood was spinning. That's how the other John Jordan does it.

This was my first try at such a bowl, bradford pear, sawn, carved, filed, sanded after watching John Lucas in demo at our club in Knoxville.
I'm guessing it took me about 100 hours but I didn't use a stopwatch.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342459&d=1471445201

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=342461&d=1471445792



JKJ

[daryl moses]

Very interesting and very, very nice piece John. Thanks for sharing.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Many woods look alike in the log or board. The color and figure can vary wildly with the specific tree. The bark is good to have but a leaf would be better. Some species have a distinctive smell. Some fluoresce under UV light. A closeup look at the rings can narrow things down. Diffuse or ring porous, early and latewood pore structure, presence of tyloses, visibility of rays? Slice the end grain cleanly with a razor blade and examine at about 10x (or give it to someone who can.) Hoadley's book "Identifying Wood" has instructions and photomicrographs for comparison as does the online Wood Database. This can take you from wild speculation to "almost sure."

If being correct is worth the effort for this piece the US government's forest products Laboratory will ID up to 5 samples a year for any US citizen. Or just do what many people do and decide on a species and label it so. Most people who see it up close won't know the difference and those who do will probably keep it to themselves. It IS humorous to see a ring-'porous bowl with Cherry written on the bottom.

JKJ

With Maple trees the leafs are very hard to use for IDing the trees, some are easier like the Silver Maple or the Manitoba Maple (Box Elder) others are just to identical to use for this.

As fot the Hoadley wood book (I have it BTW) it will give you N.American species of Maples, the Norway Maple is not in it.

If you have to go by the relative small pictures to ID the endgrain or the side-grain, good luck, it is there that yes, many woods do look alike, especially in wood from the same family of trees like Maple.

[Leo Van Der Loo]

Leo - how did you ever turn that bowl with the handles?

Mark I know I have posted about how I do this before, I’ll see if I can find it, saves all the wear on my fingers ;)

OK here it is from a while ago :D

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194919-Finally-some-turnings-again-it-s-been-a-long-while&highlight=bowl+with+handles

[John K Jordan]

With Maple trees the leafs are very hard to use for IDing the trees, some are easier like the Silver Maple or the Manitoba Maple (Box Elder) others are just to identical to use for this. As fot the Hoadley wood book (I have it BTW) it will give you N.American species of Maples, the Norway Maple is not in it. If you have to go by the relative small pictures to ID the endgrain or the side-grain, good luck, it is there that yes, many woods do look alike, especially in wood from the same family of trees like Maple.

The real value in the end grain evaluation is eliminating species it can't possibly be and hopefully in assuring it is maple instead some other species. The case of narrowing the search by distinguishing diffuse vs ring porous wood is trivial. I'm certainly not saying the wood in question is or is not norway maple, just that it may be easy to tell with assurance if it could be norway maple. If it can't, look elsewhere.

Yes, distinguishing between the various maples is difficult by this method. For example, even the Forest Products Laboratory returns the answer "elm" rather than "american elm". (We have sent in test samples and found the lab to be quick and reliable.)

We (I and some friends) are happy to distinguish between the soft maples and the hard/sugar maples which is easy if we have the leaves. The rays in the transverse section are definitely different. There are chemical tests too for maples and some other species. This article might be interesting for those who like to know which maple they have and explains some of the problems: http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/differences-between-hard-maple-and-soft-maple/

When I get a known species I like to cut and prepare end grain samples and mark them for comparison. I like to have several samples from different trees since there is a lot of variation. I use a stereo microscope for evaluation and comparing to actual samples is usually far better than the photographs. For wood density I dry and square up a small rectangular piece with the milling machine. I am slowly accumulating domestic and exotic samples. Years ago I bought a bunch of large pieces of wood for cheap that neither the seller or I knew what it was. Some were so heavy I could barely pick them up. The color, smell, weight (density), and the microscope pointed to cocobolo.

Some day I'd like to buy or build a Janka hardness measuring device.

Another thing handy for wood ID is a good UV light source. Some woods, like black locust, fluoresce brightly which along with the end grain will give a positive ID, for example, of black locust (or not).

Wood ID is an interesting hobby but admittedly not for everyone. For some people it's way too much effort - just call it something and put it on the lathe.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Mark I know I have posted about how I do this before, I’ll see if I can find it, saves all the wear on my fingers ;)
OK here it is from a while ago :D
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194919-Finally-some-turnings-again-it-s-been-a-long-while&highlight=bowl+with+handles


The green bowl warp handle method - I love it!

JKJ

[daryl moses]

Mark I know I have posted about how I do this before, I’ll see if I can find it, saves all the wear on my fingers ;)

OK here it is from a while ago :D

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?194919-Finally-some-turnings-again-it-s-been-a-long-while&highlight=bowl+with+handles
Thanks Leo. I'm going to give it a go one of these days.

[robert baccus]

A very complete and factual book (Forestry textbook) is "textbook of wood technology" by McGraw-Hill book company. I assume it is still in print. Covers microscopic, fungal and defects as well as normal specimens.

[John K Jordan]

A very complete and factual book (Forestry textbook) is "textbook of wood technology" by McGraw-Hill book company. I assume it is still in print. Covers microscopic, fungal and defects as well as normal specimens.

I'm a sucker for a good book. The best price I could find on the one you mentioned was about $80 used, about $180 new.

Another one I wish I could afford is "Wood Structure and Environment", Springer. It has been $180-$280 or so every time I've checked over the last few years. :-(

JKJ