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View Full Version : First samples made on stainless using Cermark 6060 - any suggestions?



Mayo Pardo
08-16-2016, 3:51 AM
I made some samples recently and used Cermark 6060 water based paste for the first time.
I diluted it with denatured alcohol and I'm wondering if I maybe diluted it too much?
I only bought a 25gram bottle to test the product, and so I diluted it directly in the bottle to a milk like consistency and then poured some into my airbrush bottle. I didn't really have a fool proof or accurate method of diluting the paste. I've seen recommendations of anywhere from 2 to 1 up to 6 or 8 to 1, so I figured it would have a degree of flexibility. This may be incorrect - I don't know.

I have read that Cermark does not rub off after it has dried however my application of it (using air brush) does rub off fairly easily.
I did clean the stainless parts with denatured alcohol before spraying.
The color seems almost olive green when dry - although it lasers to black.

On the test pieces I did, when I look at the engraved areas through a 10x loupe, some of the letters have shiny spots of stainless showing through the black. Would this be because I did not apply a thick enough coat of Cermark ? I was thinking maybe the Cermark only coated the low spots of the brushed stainless, but after it was sprayed with the airbrush, it appeared completely covered before I lasered the parts. The shiny spots were not readily visible with average viewing distance but I have the feeling they could look more black.

My power was set at 100, and the speed that produced the best looking and most wash resistant mark was 10.
I made test pieces with speed settings of 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10, 9,8,7,6,5. Anything slower than 10 did not seem to show any benefits
in image quality or durability.

I can add photos if required for better analysis but there didn't seem to be anything obviously wrong with my end results, other than the hard to see shiny spots mentioned above. I doubt my photos would reveal this.

If people could contribute similar feedback about their experiences with the product it could add to the general knowledge of using it successfully.

Does the thickness of the stainless affect the speed that you can laser at? Does thicker steel take longer to get to the correct temp. in order to bond with the cermark? Does this variable have any bearing on it? Or would you go the same speed and power on a 0.25 inch thick plate as you would on a 0.015 thick plate?

Do proper power and speed settings change with how thick or how thin the product has been diluted?

Gary Hair
08-16-2016, 10:12 AM
but there didn't seem to be anything obviously wrong with my end results, other than the hard to see shiny spots mentioned above. I doubt my photos would reveal this.

I'd say you have it about right if you have results like this. I don't think there is anything you can do that will completely eliminate any shiny spots, a thicker coat would end up taking a lot more power and is likely to not stick as well as a thinner coat.
Thicker material will always affect the speed but stainless won't change too much as it's not that great of a heat conductor. Once you get the settings down for 1/8" material, you'll find that anything thicker will probably be fine as well. Thinner material, .015", would need a higher speed to avoid warping or distorting the material. I ran some business card blanks that were .015 thick and you could see the lettering on the back - guaranteed to stay stuck! If you have test pieces of the thicker material then run a power grid, otherwise slow it down a bit and go for it. If it doesn't stick you can always re-coat and run again slower.

Kev Williams
08-16-2016, 12:24 PM
The makers of Cermark lost one of their 'proprietary ingredients' awhile back. What they replaced it with I haven't a clue, but the nice black mark I used to get is now about 4 shades grayer. Not even CLOSE to as black as it used to be. I have several partially full cans of the old stuff, and occasionally I run a test with it just to make sure it's not all in my head. It's not. The old stuff is much blacker...

I've never used 6060, but just read about it on laserbits...
Application Note: CerMark LMM-6060 Solution has a higher dilution ratio and increased coverage. Dilute with denatured alcohol and brush or spray on to bare, uncoated metal.

First, I would hope it has a higher dilution ratio- I pay $250 for a 500gm bottle of 6000, this stuff is $200 for 250gm...
Second, if Mayo is having show-thru issues with complete coverage, seems maybe the ratio isn't all that much higher? FWIW, I'm around 5 or 6:1 with the 'new' 6000.
Third, I have to ask, if this is 'water based', why would they have you thin it with alcohol? Why not just thin it with water? Wish that would work with 6000, but water is Kryptonite to 6000. Being able to thin with water would help offset the cost if nothing else, DNA isn't free, and it's amazing how much I keep adding to make up for evaporation.

Sorry I'm not much help-- venting mostly, as I sorely miss the old stuff....

Mayo Pardo
08-17-2016, 2:40 AM
Thanks for responding guys...
One interesting thing I didn't mention was that I ordered the Cermark from a somewhat local branch of Johnson Plastics. It turned out that location didn't stock it and they shipped it from the main branch. I was told it would be here in two days but it turned out to be more like 5.
When it arrived I opened the carton and the Cermark packaging had Laserbits labels on it. Interesting - I thought I bought it from Johnson Plastics.
My 25 gram bottle was 46.99 plus 2.50 handling (huh? it costs me an extra 2.50 for you to sell me something?) freight was 11.59 (this is also ridiculous) tax was 4.74 (did they tax me on the freight as well?) so the grand total was 65.82. I hope the tax was sent on it's way to IL. because they're broke.

Mike Null
08-17-2016, 8:03 AM
As far as the tax is concerned, since they have a location in Illinois they must charge sales tax. There are both state and local sales taxes in Illinois.

If you are a re-seller you may not have to pay sales tax (I am not familiar with IL law)--I don't pay tax on such items in Missouri. But I do collect tax when I sell them.

Keith Winter
08-17-2016, 9:21 AM
Johnson Plastics distributes for Laserbits. Try searching "Johnson Plastics laserbits" on google, hundreds of products will come up all distributed from Johnson Plastics.


Thanks for responding guys...
When it arrived I opened the carton and the Cermark packaging had Laserbits labels on it. Interesting - I thought I bought it from Johnson Plastics.
.

Tony Lenkic
08-17-2016, 10:08 AM
Johnson plastics and Lasebits were purchased by Rowmark.
Now when ordering supplies you may be receiving it from either one that has product in stock.

Bert Kemp
08-17-2016, 10:23 AM
Laserbits is in AZ they might have taxed you AZ tax plus Il tax yikes:(

Glen Monaghan
08-17-2016, 11:15 AM
There is absolutely no reason/way they would have taxed him for AZ...