Best mortising gauge?

[Nick Stokes]

What is the best mortising gauge? I currently have the Veritas dual marking gauge with shaft lock. I just dont feel very impressed by it. To me it doesn't cut/mark very well, and I just dislike using it.

Is there something different/better? Or do ya'll like these and I need to get over it and figure it out?

[Brian Holcombe]

Nick, I like the gauges by Matsui Measure.

[Patrick Chase]

What is the best mortising gauge? I currently have the Veritas dual marking gauge with shaft lock. I just dont feel very impressed by it. To me it doesn't cut/mark very well, and I just dislike using it.

Is there something different/better? Or do ya'll like these and I need to get over it and figure it out?

IMO this is one of those things where "best" is highly subjective.

I like the Veritas. It took a little experimenting, and I usually tip it so that it marks with one wheel at a time (and I would argue that having the option to do that is a feature, though I suspect others would disagree vehemently). OTOH you may be somebody who's more "in tune" with a traditional dual-pin gauge. It doesn't cost much to find out...

[Phil Mueller]

Brian, I wasn't familiar with those guages, so looked them up. Seem very functional. What do they mean by a few minutes with some sandpaper or sharp chisel...are they pretty rough when you get them?
Thanks!

This inexpensive two bladed marking gauge forgoes refinement in the pursuit of a simple, functional marking gauge that simply gets the job done. A few minutes with some sandpaper or a sharp chisel will tidy things up nicely but nothing needs to be done to this humble little tool for it to function well.

[Brian Holcombe]

Not in my experience, I sharpen them of course but they're quite nice right out of the box.

Anytime!

[Mike Holbrook]

I ordered a Matsui, dual blade, from Tools From Japan. It took months to get it and I was told when it finally shipped that mine would be the last or one of the last they sold because of issues at the manufacturer. Is there some other source for these. So at the Japan-Tool Online store does not seem to offer then either. I have been thinking about ordering a single blade or another double.

[Stanley Covington]

If you like the wheel style gages, the best by far is Glen Drake's Titemark. Superior precision. One-handed operation.

Downside is that mortise widths are limited.

https://www.lie-nielsen.com/nodes/4179/tite-mark-marking-gauges
http://www.glen-drake.com/Tite-Marks/

If you like the Japanese sickle style mortise gages, the Kinshiro is by far the very best. The manufacturer passed away, and so it is very difficult to find them anymore.

Not hard to make your own mortising gage.

http://japantool-iida.com/marking/2010/05/kinshiro-marking-gauge-1.html
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/1dbdd589-7fcc-4d87-a0c8-69f5156733ed_zpsbd1e4490.jpg

[Brian Holcombe]

I share Stan's opinion on the Kinshiro, but they are scarce. I bought one of the last from So and Iida has been sold out for a few years, however for some reason does not update his site. I still kick myself for not buying all three showing on So's site at the time I purchased mine.

I have gotten two Matsui's from Iida, both arrived within a few days.

[Stanley Covington]

I have bought 5 Kinishiro gages over the years, including a left-handed one which is quite rare. I keep trying to find someone to make them again, but no luck so far.

I suppose it is possible, but having too many mortise gages on hand is unlikely.

Stan

[Derek Cohen]

I have used a Kinshiro gauge for several years, and it is absolutely fantastic. It is great for in-line mortices, but it is not the best gauge for offset mortices.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Marking%20and%20Measuring/JMarkinggauge1.jpgc

This is an in-line mortice and tenon joint ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/AHandcutMorticeandTenonPrimer-BlindMortice_html_m2dc1ad10.jpg

And this table requires an offset mortice-and-tenon joint ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Mortice-CuttingGauges_html_m54c65b83.jpg

The problem with a Kinshiro is that the setting is lost when you adjust the mortice depth.

I have tried all the wheel gauges, such as adding the cutters to the Tite-Mark, using the new Veritas double beam gauge ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/BuildingTheDrawers_html_43caa7e8.jpg

The problem with the wheel gauges is that, while they are absolutely wonderful across the grain for dovetails, they struggle to leave a deep indent in end grain. This is relevant when one marks tenons and mortices from the same gauge.

The best marking gauge into end grain is a cutting gauge (like the Kinshiro) or a pin gauge.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Mortice-CuttingGauges_html_mc556f5.jpg

I chose to make a fixed double knife mortice gauge along the lines of a Kinshiro. I wanted versatility, so I designed a gauge that used a selection of fixed blades that are matched to my mortice chisels.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Mortice-CuttingGauges_html_3ae886dd.jpg

The knives sit in a brass "cassette". This is fitted permanently in the arm ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Mortice-CuttingGauges_html_4e779d81.jpg

THIS is the best mortice marking gauge! :)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Mortice-CuttingGauges_html_1ff5cd98.jpg


Details of build here: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/Mortice-CuttingGauges.html

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

It's easy to keep the settings, just pinch the blade together as you move them.

One my Matsui gauges has a screw to hold the blades together, only downside being that it limits the depth of travel.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c181/SpeedyGoomba/C060A3D2-1C8B-4C34-B650-59D3790E84F5_zpsnaw8se3b.jpg

[Derek Cohen]

It's easy to keep the settings, just pinch the blade together as you move them.

Brian, that is not easy to do. Especially when the blades are close to the fence. Any movement, such as in the transfer to a tenon, will lead to inaccurate sawing. Far better that the blades can be clamped together to prevent change, and the fence moved.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

I just put the moved blades back into their original cut to check the accuracy. I understand your interest in not doing that, but it's not a deterrent for me.

[Mark AJ Allen]

I think we need more information about what exactly you don't like about the Veritas one to make a reasonable suggestion. There are lots of gauges out there with lots of different ways to make the scribe lines as you can see from the previous posts in the thread. Not sure just throwing out a whole bunch of options will help poster much.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Mark

If that was aimed at my comment about the Veritas double wheel gauge, I think I explained myself. I have a bunch of single wheel gauges that I use all the time, not only Veritas and Titemark, but one I made myself. I like them. They are great across- and with the grain. They are just not good on hardwood end grain where the impression that is left is light. The tenon is end grain, and a light mark makes it difficult to see for sawing. This may not be as much as issue on soft woods. Is that clearer?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Derek Cohen]

I just put the moved blades back into their original cut to check the accuracy. I understand your interest in not doing that, but it's not a deterrent for me.

Brian, you may be right. My fingers are likely too thick for this :) I seem to recall that one can purchase a special clamp for pinching the blades together. Does that ring a bell?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mark AJ Allen]

No, that comment was more aimed at the original poster. The reason he dislikes the Veritas is a little vague and confusing; it does in fact cut really well, especially once the cutters are honed. I agree with your interpretation though ... end grain scribe line they leave can be difficult to see, which I think is primarily due to the geometry of the cutters. I personally, would like to know what it is about the Veritas that makes it disagreeable to him as well. Perhaps if that dislike could be addressed by modifying the gauge, he wouldn't need a purchase another ga

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian, you may be right. My fingers are likely too thick for this :) I seem to recall that one can purchase a special clamp for pinching the blades together. Does that ring a bell?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hah, well that is a problem I cannot fix! :D I have never seen a special clamp, but I assume it's like a tiny c clamp?

[John Schtrumpf]

As I don't think anyone fully mentioned it. The pin mortising gauge to get would be a Joseph Marples screwslide mortise guage (has a screw on the far end of the beam to adjust the pin spacing). That is if you want a pin guage.

[Derek Cohen]

I found a picture of the clamp for the Kinshiro ..

https://plus.google.com/photos/102916352129551102815/album/5449069393481513889/5449069433332062962

https://plus.google.com/photos/102916352129551102815/albums/5449069393481513889

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brian Holcombe]

Very interesting! I wonder if it is special made or someone found something that fit perfectly.

[John Schtrumpf]

Very interesting! I wonder if it is special made or someone found something that fit perfectly.
In Derek's second link you can see the brand name Yamazaki, so I searched on it. That clamp looks like a cut off and pinned version of a Hatagane brass clamp.

[Nick Stokes]

Thanks for all of the discussion. I think many of you are correct. What I dislike about the veritas is that I feel that the adustments slip on me sometimes. I think the way I grip it has occasionally caused it to loosen the screw as I am marking. Also, I just dont like the overall feel of it. It's probably just a deal where I need to try a different style, then make a decision from there. I feel that it is hard to cut, I feel I am having to press hard. Potentially I need to sharpen up.

I should rephrase my question though. Who makes the best pin style, and who makes the best (that I can find and afford) japanese style.

Which I think there are a lot of answers leading me in the right directions.

Thanks.