8" Jointers - thoughts on the used market?

[Dale Murray]

I am one jointer shy of a jointer.

I've been looking at craigslist in Illinois, Wisconsin and Michigan for a decent used machine. I am fine with 220 but not interested in 3phase.

Specifically I've been looking for a Delta DJ-20 but am I looking for the right thing?

So, the question is;
- what models and brands should I consider when looking for an 8" jointer?

Helical cutter head would be nice and upgraded later, considering my price range.

[stevo wis]

Dale,
I sold a pretty decent single phase 8 inch powermatic about a year ago. I think I got $650. I am in Madison, wi. I think the powermatic is as good or better than delta.

[Dale Murray]

I have a real affinity for powermatic. I have no reason for it, I just like them.

[Mike Kees]

Dale, I would not hesitate to buy powermatic ,delta dj-20 or 37-315, or a general [made in canada]. That being said you have to find one of those first. There are others that work well also. The grizzly Go 490 is a dj-20 clone and a good one. Good luck,hope you find one soon.

[Scott Brandstetter]

I have to tell you that I have been completely satisfied with my 8 inch Grizzly. It's funny, I have a lot of tools from different Manufacturers (jet, powermatic, grizzly, ridgid, etc) and I am happy with all. Every review, or update, on each Grizzly tool I have purchased has been way more than my expectations. in fact, I believe I state in most reviews, " I can't imagine what else someone would want or expect out of the tool". I have a Grizzly table saw, lathe, band saw, and jointer. I do though, highly recommend the Helical Cutter.......whatever machine you end up buying.

[Rick Potter]

I have a Delta DJ20 which I bought about 20 years ago. One thing I really like about it is the simple handle to lift and lower the infeed table. Mine is set to stop at a 1/32 or so skim cut when I lift the handle. For a quick deeper cut I simply have to loosen the adjustment lock, and move the lever down a bit, then relock it. I make my deeper cut, and return to the skim cut which just takes a few seconds.

I much prefer this to the rotating wheels on most jointers. The parallelogram system is also easy to adjust if it should happen to need it.

I have considered getting a 12" Grizzly jointer with the segmented cutters, but even though it is a parallelogram type, it uses wheels rather than the levers, and that stops me.

I will probably end up getting a new head for my Delta.

Hope this helps.

[Earl McLain]

I've been watching CL in same area since spring, and haven't seen many 8" machines come up. There was a DJ-20 in Westville, IN last spring but the asking price wasn't that far from a new Grizzly with straight knives. Thin market this year--a few years back seems like I saw 8" machines almost weekly, but I wasn't ready to buy. Figures!!

earl

[Jon Endres]

I have a Grizzly G0500, which is a long-bed, 4-knife, 8" model. Discontinued some time ago. I really like it and it has been reliable. Knives are easy to find. Byrd does make a helical cutterhead to fit this machine, and when I can scrape up the dollars I'm going to retrofit it with one.

[Rich Riddle]

I rebuilt a Jet and used it with good results.

[Jason White]

I had a DJ-20 that I bought used on Craigslist. It was a dream machine! Had to sell when I moved out of state. Hoping to find another used one soon.

[Robin Frierson]

Hey Rick, I just got that 12 inch grizzly jointer with the helical head. It's fantastic and leaves a great finish. I wouldn't let the presence of the adjustment wheels deter you. They're very easy to use and most 12 inch joiners have the wheels versus the levers. At least I think most. Anyway you got a great Jointer already and if you decide to keep it go for that helical head.

As for the original post, good luck finding a used jointer I looked at craigslist for two months and any 8 inch joiner that popped up was expensive, you could buy a new grizzly for what they were asking for many models.

[Matt Day]

A yorkcraft 8" just popped up on CL today here in Cleveland. $400!

[Nick Stokes]

I got my perfect Made in USA DJ-20 for $75 on CL... so ya, I'd say the used market for 8" jointers is pretty good... :p

[Rick Potter]

Hey Robin,

How about a full review on that Grizzly. I am sure more people than just me would be interested.

Rick P

PS: Sounds like Nick got the deal of the day. Wow!

[David Kumm]

The DJ 20 was never made in the US. Base was but the cast iron was first sourced from Brazil, then Taiwan, and finally from China. That is also the order of desirability. My DJ 20 is a very decent machine but the tables are not even close to my old jointers for flat. Flat is the key with the beds and more important than brand. The old PM 60 was US as was the old Delta wedgebed. You really want to measure how flat the tables are on the wedgebed type as they were made differently from the large three toed jointers. The bed and top wedge were cast together so if not correct are a pain to adjust. The old Oliver 144 had the wedge separate from the tables so not an issue. The Oliver or Northfield 8" would be the pick of the litter. The PM and DJ 20 are more common. The older blue Jet were Taiwan and the General from Canada is a great jointer although the tables are a little short. The DJ 20 has the longest tables so that is a plus. Dave

[Robin Frierson]

Rick, I did a short review over on woodnet with some pictures. So far the jointer is working great. The machine came ready to go. Just a little adjusting on the outfeed table and I was good to go. The fence is huge on this baby, almost 4ft long..longer than the fence of the 16in jointer. Its a lot of jointer for the money. Check it out:

https://forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7321141

[Dale Murray]

If anything this thread has increased my desire for a DJ-20.

[Patrick Curry]

I've been extremely happy with my Grizzly 490 with helical heads. Knowing that I'd want to add helical heads to any used DJ-20, my 'buy' price would be hard to find.
The other bonus was Grizzly customer service, parts availability, and warranty.

If if you decide to buy a grizzly, just go straight to the table for inspection before assembly. If all is well, you basically have a new DJ-20

[Cody Jensen]

There is an older Delta (no model given, and I'm not expert on machinery) in southern Illinois (listed here (http://terrehaute.craigslist.org/tls/5705754172.html)). Price is 750...not bad, but I've seen better in recent history.

And an 8" grizzly in Dubuque (http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/5680222459.html)

[David Kumm]

The Delta looks to have been restored. the art deco base machines are sought after by the OWWM guys. Price is fair as it should hold value as well as any used 8". Dave

[Dale Murray]

I've found both of those.

I am really quite torn between 6" & 8". My father, who is also a woodworker thinks 6" is more than enough and an 8" machine is a HUGE space eater. For the record, the stuff he makes in much smaller in scale.

For the past few years it seems DJ-20's where everywhere, now I cant find anything within a 10 hour drive.

[Jon Grider]

I would guess most folks here who have an 8" jointer would rather have a 12" jointer. Do yourself a favor and get the 8". I bought a used Taiwanese Powermatic 60 clone several years ago. Works well, but I'd rather have an even wider one now.
I've found both of those.

I am really quite torn between 6" & 8". My father, who is also a woodworker thinks 6" is more than enough and an 8" machine is a HUGE space eater. For the record, the stuff he makes in much smaller in scale.

For the past few years it seems DJ-20's where everywhere, now I cant find anything within a 10 hour drive.

[Phillip Mitchell]

The little bit of extra space an 8" takes up over a 6" is more than worth it, in my opinion. You really aren't loosing much in the way of a footprint and it saves having to rip stuff that is barely over 6" wide, which is a lot of the rough lumber I see.

[Dale Murray]

I might consider buying new.

The Grizzly machines are not terribly expensive, however, I learned while watching the linked video about the G0490X the fence must be reset to square every time he adjusts the fence distance. I dont know if this is a common issue among jointers or if this is the penalty of buying a lower priced machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucvcOllxOFs

[Cary Falk]

I might consider buying new.

The Grizzly machines are not terribly expensive, however, I learned while watching the linked video about the G0490X the fence must be reset to square every time he adjusts the fence distance. I dont know if this is a common issue among jointers or if this is the penalty of buying a lower priced machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucvcOllxOFs

I watched the video. I have the Shop Fox W1741 which is the exact same jointer with a different paint color. I don't have the wobble in the switch or do I have to resquare the fence when I move it in and out. I haven't adjusted my fence back to square in years. It's still square. I wonder if his fence mounting block is not level and square?

[Nick Stokes]

The DJ 20 was never made in the US. Base was but the cast iron was first sourced from Brazil, then Taiwan, and finally from China. That is also the order of desirability. My DJ 20 is a very decent machine but the tables are not even close to my old jointers for flat. Flat is the key with the beds and more important than brand. The old PM 60 was US as was the old Delta wedgebed. You really want to measure how flat the tables are on the wedgebed type as they were made differently from the large three toed jointers. The bed and top wedge were cast together so if not correct are a pain to adjust. The old Oliver 144 had the wedge separate from the tables so not an issue. The Oliver or Northfield 8" would be the pick of the litter. The PM and DJ 20 are more common. The older blue Jet were Taiwan and the General from Canada is a great jointer although the tables are a little short. The DJ 20 has the longest tables so that is a plus. Dave

Gotcha, you're right I went and checked. I found another sticker on the back of the jointer, the cast iron is made in Taiwan. Thanks for sharing. It's nice how they hide that one, and then proudly display the Made in USA on the other sticker. :)

[Patrick Curry]

I might consider buying new.

The Grizzly machines are not terribly expensive, however, I learned while watching the linked video about the G0490X the fence must be reset to square every time he adjusts the fence distance. I dont know if this is a common issue among jointers or if this is the penalty of buying a lower priced machine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucvcOllxOFs

Maybe I'm doing it wrong but I've never adjusted the distance on my fence. But I have checked for alignment and its stayed square.

I suspect the biggest difference the GO490X and say the Jet version (or even PM) is largely QC. What flies with one brand won't fly with the next. If this is true, I'd prefer to save my dollars and do my own quality control work upon arrival.
Grizzly's customer service is strong. A cotter pin came loose on my motor shaft during the 1 yr warranty period. It fouled up the pulley and marred the shaft. They sent me a new pulley, belt and motor.

[glenn bradley]

I have a real affinity for powermatic. I have no reason for it, I just like them.

You are just the person they want and advertise to ;-) Seriously though, the DJ-20 is the model that off shore machines like PM and Grizzly are modeled after. The DJ-20 was possibly under powered depending who you talk to and what they were doing with it.

IMHO a parallelogram jointer (DJ-20 style) wold be my choice hands down if looking at a used jointer. They are so much easier to align if required. Aligning a dovetail way jointer is what led me to p-beds as my number one must-have when I went shopping for a new jointer.

Things like light rust (no pitting) and replacing bearings and power cords are pretty basic so unless the jointer has the bed "lips" broken or has been otherwise abused, alignment is your only real challenge.

[Greg Peterson]

8" jointers are pretty much the defacto standard these days. 6" jointers are more common on the used tool market, but like most WW tools, availability in the used market seems to be regional. In the Pacific NW for instance, 8" jointers just don't pop up very often. Neither do cabinet saws, drill presses, thickness planers and the like. I think population density and history of the region are factors.

[Dale Murray]

I appreciate all the good feedback this thread has created.

Though I have not ordered it yet, I've decided to get a Grizzly G0490XW (8" Spiral) jointer. It only makes sense considering:
- the time wasted searching for a DJ-20
- hoping to find one at a reasonable price
- traveling to wherever to pick it up
- then cleanup time

All of that and no spiral cutter head.

So Grizzly it is.

[brian zawatsky]

I was also considering the Grizzly 0490XW when i started looking for a jointer for my home workshop, as my shop is in the basement and although id like a 12" jointer (and have the space for one) there's just no way I'm getting a 1,000lb machine down the steps. The 500lb planer maxed out my machinery moving capabilities.

I ended up waiting and watching the used market for a DJ-20, and here's why.

The company I work for bought a 12" shop fox spiral head jointer (can't recall the model number) that is the same exact machine as the 0609X, just with a different paint job. Both machines are Chinese imports, and more than likely are made in the same factory on the same assembly line.

The tables are not dead flat as is necessary for precision machining. In order to get true flat stock off of this machine, you really have to pay attention to what you're doing and kind of "trick it" into cutting the way you want it to. With tables that are flat & co-planar, producing flat stock is a total no-brainer operation. To make matters worse, the casting & machining consistency on the table lip pieces was so bad (thickness of the "fingers" varying from one end to the other) it makes it impossible to perfectly align the tables & still maintain the necessary clearance between the table lip and the cutterhead. I spent hours and hours chasing the alignment around until I finally settled on "close enough".

Next, the motor was very poorly mounted which caused tremendous vibration due to the cutterhead pulley & motor pulley being way out of alignment. The holes in the steel were so far off even the slotted adjusting holes in the motor mounting bracket did not allow enough movement to get the pulleys to align. I actually had to completely remove the motor from the machine, drill new mounting holes thru the ~3/8" thick steel mounting bars in the cabinet, and re-install the motor in order to get the pulleys in the same plane.

Also, the cheaply made drive pulley on the cutterhead had a ton of slop in it. I had to wrap a few layers of .003 shim stock around the cutterhead shaft in order to snug up the fit of the pulley.

All told I probably spent 20 hours futzing with the machine to fix or work around all the manufacturing deficiencies, which is ridiculous when you consider the $3,000 price tag.

Anyway, a couple months into my search I found a Brazil/USA DJ-20 for 400 bucks & a 6 hour drive round trip. I picked up a Shelix (which is a WAY better cutterhead than the spirals that come on the Grizzly machines, I don't care what anyone says!) & new bearings which ran another 500 bucks and took about an hour to install.

The DJ-20 has 100% dead flat tables that I was able to align perfectly in about 30 minutes. No headaches. I still spent a grand on the whole setup, but in the end I ended up with a much, much better machine than anything you can buy new with a comparable price tag. I would go as far as to say that you couldn't spend 2,000 on a brand new 8" Chinese jointer and end up with the same caliber of machine as this early 80's Delta.

In short, go used.

[Andrew Hughes]

Sounds great Dale, When you have your new machine safely in your shop don't dare look at Cl.
You betcha their will be something for sale close by a week or two after you get your machine.:p

I spend over a year looking for my quest jointer.After I got it saw several that were probably a better buy.
Maybe it's the machine that finds the owner?:rolleyes:

Aj

[Dale Murray]

The hardest part about buying used is the competition looking for used; if I don't have a wad of cash and immediately jump in the car to get it, it will never happen.

The few DJ-20's I found since starting this thread have all been more than 7 hours away and nearly $1000. There gets to be a point of diminishing returns, how many hundreds of hours should I spend checking craigslist in several states daily before I decide my time is more valuable than that.

If I do buy a Grizzly it will be the first large machine I've bought new, virtually everything I have aside from circular/jig saws, planes, and drill/drivers were bought used.

Currently, Grizzly is out of stock in Missouri so I wont be ordering immediately and the craigslist quest will continue until I run out of time.

[brian zawatsky]

I hear you Dale. Generally my Craigslist search limit is 125 miles, any more than that and its just not worth the drive (to me). I guess I'm just lucky to live in an area where there is usually a decent selection of used machinery available, given a little patience and available cash as mentioned.

If you do buy a new Grizzly, just expect that there's a 50/50 shot at your new machine needing a good bit of tweaking to get it just right.

[Robin Frierson]

Based on my experience with grizzly tools I would say you have a 20% chance of a problem machine. At least thats how it worked out for me setting up a new shop and purchasing five grizzly tools. I bought a 1023 table saw, 15 inch planer, 17 inch bandsaw, 17 inch drill press, and at first an 8 inch joiner. The guy that had the 12 inch joiner was a fool to keep it. Especially since shop fox are sold through dealers. I would've sent it back.

I had some problems with the motor alignment on the 8 inch grizzly jointer and sent it back. I then purchased the G0609X 12 inch joiner and it came perfect from the Missouri facility. I think they had gone through and set the machine up for me to make sure there was no problems as there were woodchips in the dust shoot. So I have the spiral cutterhead in the jointer and planer and it's just such a joy to use. All of machines are working fine now. And don't think you won't have problems if you buy Powermatic or some higher price tool. Read the reviews of the power Powermatic 8 inch joiner. It's just a crapshoot as to whether you get a problem machine or not.

The thing about grizzly is though they will take the machine back with no problems. Their customer service is fantastic. The actual owner of grizzly came in and took care of my problem with the 8 inch jointer. Just a pain to the rebuild the crate. So the only thing I didn't buy grizzly was the cyclone, got an Oneida collector. I had a grizzly cyclone before and it works fine it was just louder than a jet plane. The owner, Papa grizzly, is a member of this forum and if you have a Problem he will take care of it. At least that's my experience. Perhaps other people may differ.

[Scott Cenicola]

There is hardly any 8" jointers in the Tampa / Orlando area, ever! Has anyone had success with the apps that notify you when your search pops up on Craigslist? There are a lot of them to choose from so I would appreciatete a recommendation.

[brian zawatsky]

I don't take very kindly to being called a fool. Its funny how all our modern faceless forms of communication (internet forums, text messaging, email, et al) make it much easier to say things that you otherwise might not say if you actually had to face and speak to a person.

At any rate, "sending back" a 1000lb machine that has already been installed on the 2nd floor of a building without expedient means of moving it 100 feet to a forklift-able location is not exactly a small task. In addition, the probability that it will be replaced by yet another poorly made machine makes all the effort of moving and re-crating all the more worthless. Not to mention the possibility of damaging the machine during moving or shipping, or the ever present risk of bodily injury when doing so.

Also, what were we supposed to use for a jointer during the minimum of 2 weeks of transit time for one unit to make its way from east coast to west, and the other to go west to east?

Before you go making assumptions as to the level of intelligence of someone you don't even know, perhaps you should consider some of the factors that may have influenced his decision.

[Robin Frierson]

Well Brian, in your post you said the company you worked for bought the jointer, not you.

"The company I work for bought a 12" shop fox spiral head jointer"

So I didnt mean to insult you. But I apologize none the less for using the term fool.

[brian zawatsky]

Perhaps I take it personally, as its a small shop and I have a lot of input into most of the decision making. Not to mention my boss is a good guy and I have a lot of respect for him.
Apology accepted.

Sorry for the distraction, guys. Carry on.

[Dale Murray]

Trigger pulled.

I am headed to Michigan to pickup a DJ-20 this weekend.

I'm sure I could have waited for a better deal but this appears to be in immaculate condition and is still be several hundred less than the Grizzly machine even after I purchase the Shellix Helical cutter head.

I really hope I can deal with this big machine in my shop space.
I'm not entirely sure where I will put it.
Think its time to build a shed and get some of this stuff out of my garage to make room.