Drawknife recommendations? - making a Windsor chair

[Alan Heffernan]

I'm making a Windsor chair and need to get some drawknives for the project. I am about to split out some oak for the steam bent chair back and need some drawknives to get it to shape for the bending. Of course there other needs for drawknives with the spindles as well.

What draw knives you would recommend for a Windsor chair project? I am prepared to buy a couple.

[Luke Dupont]

I don't have a lot of experience with draw-knives and none with chair making, so I'm just going to throw this out there as a potential option that someone more knowledgeable can comment on.

One of the first woodworking tools I bought (as a kid), was this, and I still use (mis-use?) it as a drawknife: https://www.amazon.com/Morakniv-Classic-Splitter-Carbon-4-3-Inch/dp/B00E6OOGJ2/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1470510122&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=mora+woodsplitter

At the tme, ithese were popular with bowyers, and referred to as "Swedish Drawknives." Now they seem to be marketed as "Wood Splitters" for whatever reason. They're very inexpensive compared to your typical drawknife, and very good for rough and fine shaping. They are double-bevel, as opposed to having a flat, though, so they are arguably not as good for dimensioning square stock. They're also on the smaller side.

It's been one of my favorite and most used tools throughout my life, though, and I did pretty fine/accurate work with it before I even knew much of anything about woodworking, using it in place of a plane to produce long, straight edges/tapers in width and thickness of things such as bow limbs and necks on home-made instruments, with surprisingly good results.

[Mel Fulks]

I don't think they have much market now compared to earlier days. But I'm sure good ones are still made. There are so many old ones at low prices you might want to just get something off ebay. I did notice when we used them for something like large stopped chamfers that my old ones were clearly better than the newer company owned stuff. Can't imagine that the new ones are made in the many sizes available in "vintage".

[Roger Nair]

Alan, over the past 25 years I have used a variety of tools from toolmaker Barr Quarton, who has a line of tools based on an association with Mike Dunbar and others. Also Drew Langsner's Country Workshop carries Swedish tools, books and classes. Roy Underhill has a school with a relationship with an antique tool dealer. Curtis Buchanan has a huge video collection on the building and tool usage on a chairmaking project. Peter Galbert is another chairmaker with detailed information. I would suggest reading and viewing videos until saturated, then follow up with tool research, then look at tool sources.

Personally, Barr offers very high quality and stands behind his wares. I prefer bevel down or double bevel knives, however it's the handles angle that controls the usability. I have found variety in geometry of drawknives so some items from tool catalogs may miss the mark, look for high integrity in dealers.

[steven c newman]

Afraid mine are a bit old..
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One straight edge, one curved. They were then sharpened up and put to work
342044
Not only some seat supports were done, but
342045
square stock became round posts. The OP might want to get a few spokeshaves as well
342046
Of course, my chair wasn't a Windsor, but..
342047
All the curved areas were either drawknifed, or spokeshaven. Considering the pine came from resawn, non-treated 4x4s.....

[Mike Holbrook]

I have a collection of new and refurbished drawknives. Although a drawknife appears to be a fairly simple tools there are a surprising number of features that contribute toward how well the tool functions for a particular job.

Drawknives are often used differently than many bladed cutting tools. They are capable of removing large quantities of wood working along the grain, sort of like a controlled splitting tool. This process does not leave the same smooth surface a plane does. Peter Galbert explains their use better than I can in his book "Chairmaker's Notebook".

Many older knives have curved blades which may be harder to maintain if you do not have the appropriate sharpening tools and skills. Old drawknives were frequently abused as well. Many of the old ones were hammered into wood like a wedge which may have left the blade in bad shape or at least in need of a good amount of restoration.

Another feature used in drawknife blades is a sharpening technique called dubbing, which is a slight rounding on the edge of the blade. The dubbing is usually on the edge of the blade ridding along the surface of the work, backside for a bevel-up, beveled side for a bevel-down. Dubbing both faces makes the drawknife more versatile, as the dubbing makes the knife easier to get into and out of a cut.

This may seem a strange sharpening technique to those less acquainted with this tool. I thought it was strange too, until Peter Galbert added this feature to one of my drawknives during a class. The small change made a major difference in my ability to make certain cuts.

Next consideration is bevel up or bevel down. Bevel-up drawknives have the handles angled in relation to the back of the blade. This design places the blade at a lower angle to the wood being worked which may help it slide between fibers. However, carving deeply into the wood can be an issue as the blade tends to make contact with the workpiece when trying to come out of a cut. These knives are usually used with the bevel up as the wrists are at an uncomfortable angle with the bevel down.

Bevel-down drawknives place the handles parallel to the blade. The bevel lies down toward the work. This position typically provides the user more dexterity when working. The blade rides on the short bevel (see dubbing above) and the back of the blade is up and out of the way, allowing the user to cut into and out of the work piece without the back of the blade getting in the way. I think a bevel-down drawknife is easier to use starting out.

My favorite drawknife is a third type called a "knife-edge". This drawknife is sort of like a bevel-down drawknife without a bevel in the blade. The blade on this drawknife is sharpened more like a pocket knife, both sides of the blade being formed/sharpened the same.

I have been using a knife edge drawknife made by Barr Specialty Tools for most of the last year. The smaller one. The blade may be a little harder to sharpen, but I feel the versatility is worth the small amount of extra effort learning to sharpen it.

[Ron foley]

I think I have a curved one and a straight one that I am not going to use. I have about 10 altogether. Alan if you will pay shipping I will give them to you. I hope I haven't done wrong by posting this)

[Alan Heffernan]

I have a collection of new and refurbished drawknives. Although a drawknife appears to be a fairly simple tools there are a surprising number of features that contribute toward how well the tool functions for a particular job.

. . . . . ..

My favorite drawknife is a third type called a "knife-edge". This drawknife is sort of like a bevel-down drawknife without a bevel in the blade. The blade on this drawknife is sharpened more like a pocket knife, both sides of the blade being formed/sharpened the same.

I have been using a knife edge drawknife made by Barr Specialty Tools for most of the last year. The smaller one. The blade may be a little harder to sharpen, but I feel the versatility is worth the small amount of extra effort learning to sharpen it.
Mike,
Thanks for the thoughtful response - is this the Barr you use?
http://barrtools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BT&Product_Code=DKS&Category_Code=DK

I am building the chair from plans I bought from Curtis Buchanan. Interesting to find out that Barr sells one that Curtis designed:
http://barrtools.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=BT&Product_Code=CMDK&Category_Code=DK

[Alan Heffernan]

Afraid mine are a bit old..
342043
One straight edge, one curved. They were then sharpened up and put to work
342044
Not only some seat supports were done, but
342045
square stock became round posts. The OP might want to get a few spokeshaves as well
342046
Of course, my chair wasn't a Windsor, but..
342047
All the curved areas were either drawknifed, or spokeshaven. Considering the pine came from resawn, non-treated 4x4s.....
Nice, thanks for the photos. Old is good!

[Alan Heffernan]

Alan, over the past 25 years I have used a variety of tools from toolmaker Barr Quarton, who has a line of tools based on an association with Mike Dunbar and others. Also Drew Langsner's Country Workshop carries Swedish tools, books and classes. Roy Underhill has a school with a relationship with an antique tool dealer. Curtis Buchanan has a huge video collection on the building and tool usage on a chairmaking project. Peter Galbert is another chairmaker with detailed information. I would suggest reading and viewing videos until saturated, then follow up with tool research, then look at tool sources.

Personally, Barr offers very high quality and stands behind his wares. I prefer bevel down or double bevel knives, however it's the handles angle that controls the usability. I have found variety in geometry of drawknives so some items from tool catalogs may miss the mark, look for high integrity in dealers.
I am intrigued by the Barr. Turns out that they have one that Curtis Buchanan designed. Thanks for telling me your preference for bevel down. Can you elaborate a bit on why?

[Roger Nair]

Alan, speaking generally I've used knives that are modern mass produced, antique, imported and modern forged by Barr. The mass produced type from tool catalogs have been cut out of what looks like leaf spring steel and has poor quality hardening. The German style knives were bevel up and have good steel but for the work I was doing, the handles are small, short and bulb like and fatiguing to use however they might be fine for spindle work. The bevel down Barr's and antique knives that I prefer have a shared character in use that the handle angle presents the edge while riding the bevel, control comes from rocking from the heel of the bevel and presenting decreased effective angle by skewing the edge. The advantage over the bevel up style is that the distance from edge to heel, in the bevel down knife, is much less than the distance from edge to the back of the blade, in the bevel up knife. So if all is equal between the two styles in terms of steel and strength, better leverage and better handle shape equals better control and ease. All this just my personal adaptation to the tools that trained me.

[Mike Holbrook]

Yes, Alan that is the one I have. I am frequently at Highland Woodworking and get to handle the Barr tools Highland carries. Another poster suggested that particular drawknife to me a couple years or so ago when I took my first Windsor Chair class at Highland from Pete. Curtis taught the class before Pete. I am just trying to play it forward.

Pete's new book is an excellent source of information for chairmaker's, available through Lost Art Press. Drew Langsner's Chairmaking and Green Woodworking books are also excellent. Drew's shop and store, Country Workshops, is a great place for tools too. Drew has his tools made, which means you will pay twice as much and usually have to wait for months to get your tool, but they are hand made by Hans Karlsson, Svante Djarv and Gransfors Bruks in Sweden, frequently to Drew's specifications. Peter Galbert loves designing tools too, his Blog lists several tools various makers make to his specifications.

[Alan Heffernan]

Yes, Alan that is the one I have. I am frequently at Highland Woodworking and get to handle the Barr tools Highland carries. Another poster suggested that particular drawknife to me a couple years or so ago when I took my first Windsor Chair class at Highland from Pete. Curtis taught the class before Pete. I am just trying to play it forward.

Pete's new book is an excellent source of information for chairmaker's, available through Lost Art Press. Drew Langsner's Chairmaking and Green Woodworking books are also excellent. Drew's shop and store, Country Workshops, is a great place for tools too. Drew has his tools made, which means you will pay twice as much and usually have to wait for months to get your tool, but they are hand made by Hans Karlsson, Svante Djarv and Gransfors Bruks in Sweden, frequently to Drew's specifications. Peter Galbert loves designing tools too, his Blog lists several tools various makers make to his specifications.
Thanks Mike, I am glad I don't live as close to Highland Hardware as you do! I would go broke. I have never been there without my wallet being a lot thinner when I departed. Looks like their Barr stock is depleted at the moment. I am going to give them a call tomorrow and see when they will have it back in stock. I am hoping to get a couple of the Barr's (carvers and chairmaker) and also a froe. Not sure I need the Barr froe, think I will go with the Nielsen on that.

[Alan Heffernan]

Alan, speaking generally I've used knives that are modern mass produced, antique, imported and modern forged by Barr. The mass produced type from tool catalogs have been cut out of what looks like leaf spring steel and has poor quality hardening. The German style knives were bevel up and have good steel but for the work I was doing, the handles are small, short and bulb like and fatiguing to use however they might be fine for spindle work. The bevel down Barr's and antique knives that I prefer have a shared character in use that the handle angle presents the edge while riding the bevel, control comes from rocking from the heel of the bevel and presenting decreased effective angle by skewing the edge. The advantage over the bevel up style is that the distance from edge to heel, in the bevel down knife, is much less than the distance from edge to the back of the blade, in the bevel up knife. So if all is equal between the two styles in terms of steel and strength, better leverage and better handle shape equals better control and ease. All this just my personal adaptation to the tools that trained me.

Thanks again Roger. With your and others help here, we've made quick progress on this! Looks like Barr is the way to go.

[Mike Holbrook]

Sounds good Alan. I use the LN froe too. Drew Langsner designed it and talked LN into making it.

People may disagree with me on this but I think sharp wedges are important too. It is hard to find good wedges, good meaning well sharpened and tapered on the side. Getting a split started in hard oak is tough without a good sharp wedge. Wedges with dull fast tapers on the blade tend to bounce off and thin wedges have to be picked up and moved too many times to make a mark across an entire log.

I bought two wedges made by Gransfors Bruks, again from Highland Woodworking. I was trying to take down some trees that were close to a building, trying to save money doing it myself, so I splurged. They work very well, due to their superior design and construction, but are way more expensive than other options. It is hard to find comparably made wedges and I was in a hurry. I am still shopping for a well tapered wide wedge to mark the first split on new logs with, until I find one...

I look for old used hatchets/axes on that auction place. Ones with slow tapers and narrow edges work well for making the line to start a split. Then they can be used to cut those fibers that do not want to turn loose between the pieces too. I hit the two I have sometimes with a small 4lb. hand sledge, which I would not do to my "good" axes.

The heavier, properly tapered, axe head may sink into the the hard oak better than the thin bladed froe, which also tends to bounce when struck. The froe is more designed to help control the run out of a split. There is a good deal "riding" on making a good first starting mark on a new log. Hatchets/axes may be more convenient for some small splits than a froe too.

When the log starts cracking I start using my dogwood gluts, so dull wedges just do not get much use for precise splitting.

[Bob Glenn]

Mike Holbrook has given good advise. I'll add my two cents. When I rough out spindle stock, I use the bevel up, letting the flat side of the blade follow the grain, then I switch to a bevel down draw knife to do the tapering since you can pull it out of the cut. Another vote for Galbert's book, Chair Notes. Good stuff. Also, invest in a Draw Sharp honing tool. It's about a hundred bucks. I resisted buying one for a couple years, since I thought I was getting my draw knives sharp. I was wrong. As far a curved or straight blade, I have both. I think the curved blade works a little better if you are taking a slicing cut and skewing the blade.

[Reinis Kanders]

If you have one of those CBN wheel with rounded corners then it is very easy to hollow grind the drawknife and there is no need for the drawsharp jig. I used the jig for my first drawknife, but it is faster once I tried to grind it right to the edge which CBN lets you do, then I hone with small oilstone, strop and it is sharp. I assume that one of the new crowned CBN wheels will also make it easy.

[Craig Regan]

If you have one of those CBN wheel with rounded corners then it is very easy to hollow grind the drawknife and there is no need for the drawsharp jig

The drawsharp jig helps put the correct geometry on the blade angles, Most important, the slight angle on the flat non bevel side. Made a big difference for me!

[Mike Holbrook]

Reinis,

I have not tried sharpening my drawknives with the CBN wheel, I will give that a try. A hollow may make sharpening them easier as well, sure makes plane blades easier to sharpen.

[lowell holmes]

I use spoke shaves and travishers in chair making. I find them to be more appropriate.

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[Reinis Kanders]

Reinis,

I have not tried sharpening my drawknives with the CBN wheel, I will give that a try. A hollow may make sharpening them easier as well, sure makes plane blades easier to sharpen.

I did it sort of in a way Curtis Buchanan shows in his video. Clamp a block on a tool rest and grind on a corner.

[Mike Holbrook]

Reinis,

I know the video you speak of I will study it again, although I have a Stuart Batty rest on one of mine and a Lee Valley on the other, which frequently work.

Lowell,

I believe that is the Crown Tools(?) Travisher, Highland Woodworking use to carry them. Sadly I heard that they are no longer in business, but not sure of that. I think the guy that use to make the tools may have died or something. I have one I bought a couple years ago, but have not seen them at Highland more recently.

[lowell holmes]

If that is the case, I'm glad I have one.

There are other travishers out there. Tools for Working Wood has one.

[Don Slaughter]

I have a very old Jennings draw knife that served me well for many years( bought for $10 at swap meet) then, finally broke down and bought the LN drawknife....if is a real pleasure to use and holds an edge very well. I also use Peter Galbert's Drawsharp. YouTube has videos of sharpening the drawknife and I used those methods successfully for years but the Drawsharp is the best method...hands down for putting and keeping an edge on a drawknife.
Good luck.