Is it Rosewood or Cocobolo?

[Robert Hartmann]

How can you tell the difference between the two? Most of my woodworking has been with oak, walnut and poplar. I've started to venture out, but I still have trouble differentiating woods. I know it's just a matter of looking at different woods and gaining experience. Lately, for various reasons, I've been doing a lot of tool restoration (mostly hand drills). I thought Rosewood was lighter than Cocobolo, but have realized both can be light to dark. So how do you tell the difference? Since the drills are all around 100 yrs old the Cocobolo has obviously darkened. I'm not sure what the Rosewood does over time.

I've looked online (such as the Wood Database). I don't have access to a good wood stores. I'm currently stationed in Brunssum, Netherlands and the only local resources deal primarily in flooring. Any tips would be appreciated.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

When I check my reference book (Wood Identification and Use, by Terry Porter,published in 2007), there is no single entry for "Rosewood." In the index under Rosewood I have the following types: African, Bahia, Brazilian, East Indian, Honduras, Induan, New South Wales, Nicaraguan, Papua New Guinea, and Rio.

Looking up Cocobolo, it lists another common name for that species as "Nicaraguan Rosewood." Comparing it to Honduras Rosewood and some of the other entries, it looks like they are all hard, durable, tropical hardwoods with similar properties.

I don't know that it helps you, but the Cocobolo entry indicates it is "a range of colors including rich red with. Orange and yellow streaks and zones" and after exposure to air it "darkens to deep red or orange red with markings of black and purple.

Perhaps "Rosewood" was more of a trade name, and not a specific species. Sort of like the "white wood" the home improvement stores sell, which could be pine, fir, spruce, etc.

[David Carroll]

Somebody will come along with all of the proper botanical names, but true rosewoods are from the genus Dalbergia. The one most people think of is Brazilian Rosewood, famous for Stanley plane totes and knobs and for fine guitars and other instrument wood. This is a protected species and new timber cannot be imported. Folks who make guitars and who use rosewood use Indian rosewood now. Cocobolo is a rosewood, but a different species, both of these species are available but expensive. There are others as well, I particularly like Madagascar Rosewood.

[Skip Helms]

Cocobolo is pretty light in color when fresh cut. There are lots of tans and oranges with some heavy black veining. It oxidizes much darker fairly quickly but still retains the characteristic orange. Brazilian is a richer brown -- even fresh cut -- with finer black spiderwebbing in more figured wood. There can be streaks of dark green too. Mostly you can tell by the smell. Cocobolo smells good but Brazilian is heavenly. You could use it as potpourri. If you have an older Stanley tote, scratch the bottom of it and sniff. You'll know it instantly from then on.

The other rosewoods are usually darker fresh cut too. Cocobolo is harder and heavier than it's Asian and Central American cousins generally. Some say it is hard to glue. It depends on the log. I bought a plank of it 20 years ago and it wasn't all that greasy.

Attached is a picture of a Brazilian No. 7 tote with a replaced tip of cocobolo. I stained the new wood once with a thin solution of potassium dichromate to bring out more browns and then gave it a couple coats of TruOil. I still have a little pre-ban Brazilian but not enough to fix plane handles. Not that it matters here but that's a good way to test the match for an old guitar repair. Another old trick is to extend grain pores (or make new ones) in the wood with a utility knife along the seam so if you use filler it will show continuity. Again, not necessary here but handy to know.

Good luck, sh

341981

[george wilson]

True Brazilian rosewood,"Dalbergia Nigra" grows ONLY along the Amazon River. It is so called because it gives off the odor of roses when freshly felled. Other rosewoods that do NOT grow along the Amazon but are exactly the same species are given a different name,which I have forgotten at the moment(Do you think I can keep everything inn my OLD HEAD?:)) Google Brazilian Rosewood. I think there's a write up in Wilkepedia.

The veins and webs of black found in Brazilian Rosewood are actually spalting. The extra desirable figuring is from letting the logs lie for a while on the ground. I have some Brazilian Rosewood which is not spalted. It does not look the same as "regular" Br. Rosewood. As mentioned,true Brazilian R. does have a distinctive odor when sawn or cut. It is rather peppery with other smells in it that are only found in true Brazilian Rosewood. I like the smell. But,there are some who are very allergic to these tropical woods,and I strongly advise anyone to NOT breathe the dust when working it. I breathed way too much when I was younger,and had no dust collecting system.

Cocobolo is a different wood. It looks rather CLOSE to Brazilian R., but is not the same wood. Different colors. It is "Dalbergia Retuse".

There are quite a few woods designated as rosewoods. Some are not true rosewoods at all. East Indian rosewood falls in that category.

[Glen Canaday]

If your hand drills are turn of the century Millers Falls, they're cocobolo if they are not beech or other white wood.

AFAIK, MF never used any "true rosewood" in anything they made, be they drills or bit braces or planes.

[ken seale]

E. I. Rosewood is a true dalbergia.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/east-indian-rosewood/

[Dave Beauchesne]

341981[/ATTACH]

Does it ever smell heavenly! Intoxicating I say.

Dave B

[david charlesworth]

Take great care. Cocobolo dust causes alergy in many users.

David Charlesworth

[george wilson]

I stand corrected. I dislike E.I. rosewood so much I refuse to use it. And have forgotten about it's species status.

[Skip Helms]

Thumbs-up to being careful about allergies. I've heard that of D. Retusa but never had a problem and promptly forgot. Not only breathing but also skin allergies. BTW, if you want to get a good look at higher-grades of different rosewoods, have a look here: http://alliedlutherie.com/collections/weekly-specials He doesn't have any of the unobtainium species but there are quite a few true rosewoods. sh

[Joe Bailey]

If your hand drills are turn of the century Millers Falls, they're cocobolo if they are not beech or other white wood.

AFAIK, MF never used any "true rosewood" in anything they made, be they drills or bit braces or planes.

Rosewood was used in some early, higher-end MF drills -- I have a couple of them around here somewhere.

[John K Jordan]

How can you tell the difference between the two? Most of my woodworking has been with oak, walnut and poplar. I've started to venture out, but I still have trouble differentiating woods. I know it's just a matter of looking at different woods and gaining experience. Lately, for various reasons, I've been doing a lot of tool restoration (mostly hand drills). I thought Rosewood was lighter than Cocobolo, but have realized both can be light to dark. So how do you tell the difference? Since the drills are all around 100 yrs old the Cocobolo has obviously darkened. I'm not sure what the Rosewood does over time. I've looked online (such as the Wood Database). I don't have access to a good wood stores. I'm currently stationed in Brunssum, Netherlands and the only local resources deal primarily in flooring. Any tips would be appreciated.

Cocobolo is Dalbergia retusa, a rosewood itself.

As others mentioned, there are many different looks to the rosewoods. I have some from dark brown to orange.

I have a bunch of cocobolo that I use mostly for woodturning. While some labeled cocobolo is almost uniformly some shade of brown even when freshly cut, most of it has streaks of color. The best has bright oranges, reds, browns, black. (remember that even if a piece of wood is clearly labeled it might be wrong!)

Cocobolo has a very distinctivea and not unpleasant smell which is unlike the other rosewoods I use. The others mostly smell good too as I understand rosewood is so named as the smell is somewhat reminiscent of roses. Once you smell it you won't forget it, but it is not possible to describe in words! (Note to a future publisher of the ultimate wood ID book: Include a scratch and sniff sample with every species!) When I look at the end grain of cocobolo with a microscope I see each pore packed with what looks like amber resin. I haven't looked at the other rosewoods with the microscope but I can if you want. Note that if you can cut off a small piece, the US government Forest Products lab will ID up to 5 samples a year, assuming you are a US citizen.

Cocobolo does darken with time. In fact I discovered by accident that when I put Watco danish oil on cocobolo it turned almost black as ebony in about 6 months! Most of the old cocobolo I have is dark brown on the outside but bright colors just a tiny bit under the surface. Sorry, I don't know how old it is but from what I know I'm guessing it is at least 40 years old.

Most of the other rosewoods I have in my stock are brown, some beautifully creamy. Some, not so nice (East Indian is not my favorite) Some labeled Borneo Rosewood is mostly dull orange and really bothers my skin. Cocobolo is extremely irritating to some people.

This article has some comments:
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/distinguishing-brazilian-rosewood-from-east-indian-and-other-rosewoods/

JKJ

[Glen Canaday]

Rosewood was used in some early, higher-end MF drills -- I have a couple of them around here somewhere.

I haven't seen them, so definitely post pics if you do. If the OP has the same models, it will even be on topic!

[george wilson]

I heard about a guy who went BLIND for 2 weeks after turning cocobolo. So,BE CAREFUL. I seem to have beeb blessed with not being sensitive to these tropical woods,but some certainly ARE. But,the older I get,the more careful I have become as I have asthma now. I put in a very comprehensive dust collection system. Over my lathe,I was lucky to find CHEAP,a full length plexiglass guard,which can swing upwards. Behind the lathe,I have 2 4" flexible hose dust collectors,which can be slid about to where I am working. The rounded hood makes for a nice "wind tunnel" good for collecting the fine "fly stuff". It doesn't get larger chips,but it is the fly stuff floating about that does you harm.

[Normand Leblanc]

Identifying wood is pretty difficult for me. I've been sold what is suppose to be rosewood but which one is it? If you can help.
342057
Normand

[Matt Lau]

George is probably the best to answer, but I'll put my 2 pence in.
1. Cocobolo is a rosewood.
2. Cocobolo tends to be oily
3. Cocobolo is a known irritant and sensitizer (but so is Walnut). Personally, I refuse to work with the stuff due to health reasons.
4. Most rosewoods seem to get darker looking with age unless stored improperly to direct, harsh sunlight (in which case it can look faded).
5. Some people have trouble gluing rosewood--there's a lot of variability even within the same species. Personally, I've had no problem with epoxy (knife handle) or hot hide glue (guitars).
6. Rosewood can be identified by sniffing it. Brazilian rosewood is heavenly, floral,-- which is why it nearly got cut to extinction due to Chanel no 5!

Skip has really good info in his post.

[Allan Speers]

A simplification, but kind of true:

Brazillian is rich & subdued. The Rolls Royce of Rosewoods.

Cocobolo is brash & ostentatious. The Lambourghini of Rosewoods.


Guess which I prefer? :)