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View Full Version : Input Requested - New Purchase of Trotec or Universal Laser



Jared Lenz
08-03-2016, 7:18 PM
I am going to be in the market for a new laser and am considering the Trotec Speedy 360 80W, ULS PLS6.1501D dual 75W, or the ULS ILS12.150D dual 75W. I have just recently been informed of Trotec so I am not entirely familiar with the options for their lasers. I have read through the various posts discussing and comparing the two companies’ lasers. The reason I am posting is because it seems as though most of them revolve around engraving (surprise, surprise. It is the engraver section after all). I do a few jobs that involve engraving, but most of my work involves around cutting, either partial or full depth, various materials and thicknesses. I’m not sure what is considered tight tolerances in everybody else’s world, but I have some jobs that require +/-.005”. I was told that the ILS with its 24x40 bed will hold a tolerance of +/-.008”-.010” across the entire bed area. Like stated earlier, I cut a lot of different materials and here is a small list of them: VHB, acrylic, Lexan, Viton, Poron, Kapton, Formex, fish paper, HDPE, and Nomex. I currently am using an Epilog Mini 40W to process these materials. I was at an event a few months ago and was impressed with ULS PLS and its capabilities. While doing research on that particular machine I stumbled across this website and this is where I found out about Trotec. I have only been in the industry for 14 months, but I feel as though I have an average or slightly better than average understanding of laser processing. I was hoping to get some guidance from people with more experience than myself in which direction might be best for me. I do understand that I have to take the information I receive for face value as not everybody uses their respective machines for the same projects/processes. I appreciate any advice given.

P.S. I apologize for the jumping around of information in my post.

Thanks,
Jared

Keith Winter
08-03-2016, 9:31 PM
That's a pretty close tolerance, but I think either would work, the hardest part will be making your files to that degree of accuracy :) To be safe you should contact both companies, not sure either will agree to be held to that level of accuracy but at least that way you can get it from the horse's mouth so to speak.

If you have an Epilog, may I ask why you would want to change?

So he is my two cents on the laser brands you mentioned. I have a Trotec, so clearly I think the Trotec is the best machine. Everyone has their favorite. However I will say I prefer the setup of the Universal over the Speedy 400 for cutting purposes. The Speedy 400 lacks proper suction from down below for the bed size, the 2" intake (which then splits into two 2" ports) below the cutting grid is simply not enough for that big of a bed, it should be 4" or 6" intake port. The Trotec 360 I'm told does have better lower suction (maybe someone else can verify yes or no?). So there are pros and cons to each machine, "search the board" there are dozens of threads about this on here. That being said I still own a Speedy 400. Although the lower grid exhaust is undersized, it still cuts accurate and fine, plus it's simply the best and fastest for engraving and rarely goes down. I also like my local Trotec rep Chris so that's important too, as they will be the ones servicing your machine if it goes down. Be sure you meet your local rep before you buy.

Gary Hair
08-03-2016, 9:31 PM
The answers aren't really going to change from the other multiple posts asking the same question. Start with posts from a few years ago and read all you can, you'll have all the answers you want.

Jared Lenz
08-03-2016, 9:43 PM
The answers aren't really going to change from the other multiple posts asking the same question. Start with posts from a few years ago and read all you can, you'll have all the answers you want.

Gary, thanks for the response. I have read all of the previous posts that I could possibly find on these lasers and not much was discussed with cutting as well as tolerances. I was just looking to see what kind of results people were getting with their machines. Also, not much has been openly discussed regarding the various materials i use so I wanted to see if materials made any difference for the two lasers.

Thanks again for the comment.

Jared Lenz
08-03-2016, 9:56 PM
Keith, thanks for your input. I currently am able to hold +/- .005" on some materials by compensating for burn back of the material although there are some materials the lowest I will go is +/-.010". On that part I am satisfied with our Epilog. The part that I do not like is that in order to achieve these results I have to run the machine at only 19% speed which is limiting production and also limiting our ability to be competitive. I was told by 3 different people (Epilog tech dept, local sales rep, and ULS materials engineer) that the Epilog lasers use two different algorithms when it comes to speed settings. If you stay at <19% you will be able to have the best chance for accuracy on all sizes of attributes. Anything faster than 19% will see accuracy problems with curved lines with smaller radii. If it is straight lines I was told to run as fast as the machine will let you. When I spoke with the ULS engineer he spoke about ULS having a built in setting that adjusts the dpi and other settings on a smaller radius in order to keep the same accuracy on all cutting speeds. Also, the level of detail I saw on partial depth cutting on some HD Urethane is something I haven't seen before with our Epilog.

Regarding the suction, we currently have to tape materials down onto our cutting table in order for them to stay still. So this downfall wouldn't be a deal breaker for me at all.

Another thing I like about both the Trotec and the ULS that the Epilog doesn't have is the non contact focusing. The Epilog uses a plunger style focus tool which causes trouble when I do cutting on exposed pressure-sensitive adhesive.

I hope that was a clear enough response.

Thanks again,
Jared

Keith Winter
08-03-2016, 10:41 PM
Ok so now I understand better what you are wanting on the tolerances. On the trotec the scale is slightly different its 100-0 I typically cut around 0.2-0.5 for thin materials on a 80w, so less an 1% of speed which may be roughly equal to your speed (scales are different). Or you might be cutting much faster if your material is thin like paper.

The bad news is you are going to loose that accuracy on any laser if you cut fast. So having a more powerful laser may not help you, you might just need more lasers... The problem lies in as you increase cutting speed the accuracy of turns and circles decreases. All lasers do this. I would suggest you send samples of your material and some sample job files in to each of the three manufacturers and ask them to run them as fast as possible. To determine which will work best for you.


Keith, thanks for your input. I currently am able to hold +/- .005" on some materials by compensating for burn back of the material although there are some materials the lowest I will go is +/-.010". On that part I am satisfied with our Epilog. The part that I do not like is that in order to achieve these results I have to run the machine at only 19% speed which is limiting production and also limiting our ability to be competitive. I was told by 3 different people (Epilog tech dept, local sales rep, and ULS materials engineer) that the Epilog lasers use two different algorithms when it comes to speed settings. If you stay at <19% you will be able to have the best chance for accuracy on all sizes of attributes. Anything faster than 19% will see accuracy problems with curved lines with smaller radii. If it is straight lines I was told to run as fast as the machine will let you. When I spoke with the ULS engineer he spoke about ULS having a built in setting that adjusts the dpi and other settings on a smaller radius in order to keep the same accuracy on all cutting speeds. Also, the level of detail I saw on partial depth cutting on some HD Urethane is something I haven't seen before with our Epilog.

Regarding the suction, we currently have to tape materials down onto our cutting table in order for them to stay still. So this downfall wouldn't be a deal breaker for me at all.

Another thing I like about both the Trotec and the ULS that the Epilog doesn't have is the non contact focusing. The Epilog uses a plunger style focus tool which causes trouble when I do cutting on exposed pressure-sensitive adhesive.

I hope that was a clear enough response.

Thanks again,
Jared

Jared Lenz
08-04-2016, 8:41 AM
Thanks again for the input Keith. I wouldn't make a purchase without sending samples out to all options that I am considering. I feel as though that would be a foolish decision on my part. Like stated earlier, I was just hoping to see what others had to say regarding these issues. I know this must get old for most of the forum members that have seen this topic and/or question posed, but the reason I started this thread was because not much had been discussed (from what I've read on these same machines) regarding tolerances and the materials I mentioned.

I appreciate your input.

Jared

Keith Winter
08-04-2016, 9:22 AM
Jared on your issue with the focus can you measure the z distance to the table then add your material thickness and then key that into your software to raise and lower it? Seems like that would be the way to go on material s that you cannot touch.

Mike Null
08-04-2016, 9:32 AM
Jared

I would suggest that you run experiments with a 1.5" lens as well as a 2.0" lens. The 1.5" should produce tighter tolerances.

Jared Lenz
08-04-2016, 12:59 PM
That's a good idea Keith, but unfortunately our Epilog does not have any focusing options within our software. We have the option to use the auto-focus, which uses the plunger, or the manual focus option with a push button on the laser keypad.

Jared Lenz
08-04-2016, 1:05 PM
Mike, thanks for pointing out the different lenses. That is one thing that I am trying to learn more about to find out when and where to use a certain lens. It appears as though with the Trotec you have the option to quickly change out the lenses which would be nice to have. There are certain jobs where the 1.5" would be greatly beneficial to the process, but then again there are also some jobs where I am using only 2% power. If I understand the lenses correctly, when there is a tighter beam there is more power concentrated onto the material as opposed to the same settings with a 4.0" lens. With that being said, If I were to strictly use a 1.5" lens then there might be jobs that I can no longer produce.

Thanks,
Jared

Trish Steding
08-16-2016, 9:54 AM
Hi Jared,

Did you get the info you were looking for? Please feel free to contact me for more information on Trotec lasers. If you are cutting with tight tolerances, there are two aspects about a Trotec that might be interesting to you. Trotec's CO2 laser tubes are made of ceramic, and they have very fast pulse rates (they stop and start faster) which allows you to make highly precise cuts and engravings at high speeds. Another thing worth mentioning is that Trotec's vision registration camera can help you meet tight tolerances and eliminate distortions on pre-printed materials. Thanks and good luck with your search!