Cantilever deck removal/rebuild

[Mark W Pugh]

OK, so I have this cantilever deck coming out of one end of my house, which are my floor joists in my dining area. I have some rotted boards, and I'm looking at options to fix the problem. The exterior of the house is brick, so the joists are running through a brick exterior.

What I want to do is cut all the joists off at the brick, and rebuild the deck out with a base board against the brick, bolted through the brick and joist seperators, and posts at the far end.

Question. What is the best way to cut the joists back in from the brick so I can seal it with mortar/whatever? How would you guys cut back the joists from the brick about 3/4 - 1"? And, what would you use to fill the void?

[Wayne Lomman]

Mark, cut the joists off as close to the face of the brick work as possible. Then get out the drill and a decent sized spade bit - 1" or so - and drill into the end of the joist as many times as necessary to remove the bulk of the timber to the 1" depth you want. Now get out the hammer and a not very valuable chisel and cut out the remaining timber. It doesn't have to be very neat because the next step is to patch it with mortar and the mortar will hang onto the rough end of the timber. If it won't be seen, just use mortar. If it will be seen, try and lay hands on some matching bricks and chip out the adjacent half brick and replace with whole bricks. This will take a bit of work with a diamond blade in a grinder, but you will end up with a barely visible repair that will keep the weather out. Cheers

[Malcolm McLeod]

Mark, If I am interpreting correctly, your reference to a 'base' board is typically called a ledger board. The ledger is usually lag screwed or bolted into a rim joist, located behind (inside) the brick. Your description makes it sound like you don't have a rim joist though - - just blocking (separators) between the joists. As suggested, trimming joists and mortar to fill sounds fairly straight forward.

My concern in rebuilding would be that as the ledger bolts/screws are drawn tight, they could very well pull the blocking loose, assuming it is just toe-nailed in place. Even with joist hangers on the blocking, neither attachment is intended for a side load. And so, its probably not strong enough to properly tension the ledger fasteners...? Potentially you could pull the blocking up tight to the inside surface of the brick, leaving you with both compromised structure and untreated wood in contact with masonry (and more rot potential).

You might consider a fully supported deck structure - - with posts and footers up close against the house, as well as along the outside edge - - rather than a ledger supported by the house wall. I've even seen deck posts anchored into a concrete basement wall - well above grade, but below all of the complexities of a structure's siding, wall, and flooring 'intersection'. You'll have to decide how this will impact your usage of area under the deck.

Other option is to install additional blocking, properly oriented on hangers for the intended bolt/screw side loads (inside of the existing blocking). Then drill thru ledger, masonry, and blocking to install all-thread or long bolts that reach the new structure.

[Rich Riddle]

I would cut it flush with a Fein Multimaster and perform the drilling, chiseling back into the wall. Fill the voids with an epoxy mix to seal the holes. I would install the ledger board covering the area where the joists previously came through the brick, install lag bolts between the joist areas, and build the deck according to code. Of course you will not be able to have it cantilever any longer. It will need supports.

[Lee Schierer]

Before you start building the new deck, be sure to determine what you local building codes require for anchoring the ledger to the house and for supporting the deck. In our area the building codes now require through bolts not lag screws, joist hangers for the joists and all must be galvanized.

[Howard Garner]

Another consideration is building permits.
My brother added a deck. If it was attached to the house, it required a permit, if stand alone it did not.

Howard Garner

[Michael Dye]

Be careful with drilling through the brick. I don't know about your house, but mine has a 3/4" air gap separating the inside of the brick wall from the supporting plywood wall. This was done so the brick wouldn't bring in moisture which would rot the interior wooden walls. Here in Oklahoma, this is a common practice.

[Todd Mason-Darnell]

What I want to do is cut all the joists off at the brick, and rebuild the deck out with a base board against the brick, bolted through the brick and joist seperators, and posts at the far end.


Not to be negative and just to let you know, this would never pass inspection/meet code here in Central Texas. You would be required to either remove the brick veneer behind the ledger, install some type of a rim band that had a direct load path to the foundation (the brick veneer would not count) and connect the deck ledger to it or ( more generally preferred) independently support the deck at the edge near the house with posts.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Support for deck at house side doesn't have to be at house itself. It could be out from house 6"- 16". But deck will require both bracing in horizontal and vertical planes. This means two sides will need "X" bracing, along with diagonal bracing under the deck surface, usually along bottom of joists.

[Paul F Franklin]

Ledger should never be attached to brick or even bolted to framing through brick. You can do it by drilling oversize holes and using structural stainless spacers to transfer the load to the interior framing, but you will need access to the interior framing to attach the correct structural brackets. Now you have created excellent path for rain water to get inside your house and soak insulation and framing. At the very least you would have to saw cut the brick so you could properly flash the ledger to try and keep it from rotting and to keep water out.

Since you will need piers and posts anyway, far better to put in a second set a few feet from the house (where they won't be bearing on foundation backfill) and build a free standing deck.

[Brian Tymchak]

Another consideration is building permits.
My brother added a deck. If it was attached to the house, it required a permit, if stand alone it did not.

Howard Garner

True in my area as well, except there is a height limitation of the deck to do it without a permit. Also, when I built my deck, I had to build a free-standing deck as it could not be attached to a cantilevered portion of the house, which is where our back patio door exits.

[Mark W Pugh]

Mark, If I am interpreting correctly, your reference to a 'base' board is typically called a ledger board. The ledger is usually lag screwed or bolted into a rim joist, located behind (inside) the brick. Your description makes it sound like you don't have a rim joist though - - just blocking (separators) between the joists. As suggested, trimming joists and mortar to fill sounds fairly straight forward.

My concern in rebuilding would be that as the ledger bolts/screws are drawn tight, they could very well pull the blocking loose, assuming it is just toe-nailed in place. Even with joist hangers on the blocking, neither attachment is intended for a side load. And so, its probably not strong enough to properly tension the ledger fasteners...? Potentially you could pull the blocking up tight to the inside surface of the brick, leaving you with both compromised structure and untreated wood in contact with masonry (and more rot potential).

You might consider a fully supported deck structure - - with posts and footers up close against the house, as well as along the outside edge - - rather than a ledger supported by the house wall. I've even seen deck posts anchored into a concrete basement wall - well above grade, but below all of the complexities of a structure's siding, wall, and flooring 'intersection'. You'll have to decide how this will impact your usage of area under the deck.


Adding support legs up against the house was my plan, did not mention that. So I would have a ledger board attached to the brick, but it would be fully supported by the support legs against the wall. The deck would only be about 8' span. I was going to run bolts through the spacers also, just for partial stability.

Thanks for the info.

Any other considerations? No codes in my area, but I don't want to build something dangerous.

[Lee Schierer]

Your municipality may not have building codes, but Ohio certainly does. Ohio Building Code (http://codes.iccsafe.org/Ohio.html)

[Charlie Velasquez]

Adding support legs up against the house was my plan, did not mention that. So I would have a ledger board attached to the brick, but it would be fully supported by the support legs against the wall. The deck would only be about 8' span. I was going to run bolts through the spacers also, just for partial stability.Wanting to understand... you are going to lag 2xs to the interior studs through the brick veneer, through the sheathing?

So maybe a penetration through everything every 24" on 16" centers. On an 8' span, with 6'x2"x4" support, that is 28 holes in your veneer. ....

Even then, it would not give you much force to accommodate the pull-away rotational forces. You may want to consult a structional engineer. Yours is an unusual situation.

[Dan Hunkele]

Another consideration. Decks attached to the house are added to property taxes most often. Free standing decks are not.