video: Sharpening My Way

[Tom M King]

https://youtu.be/sqyaSvDYAM0

[Stewie Simpson]

Tom; excellent presentation.

Stewie;

[Tom M King]

Thanks. That's just my second video. I'm learning, and will do better. I don't bother to test the edge, and kind of panicked when I realized I didn't have a method to show that the edge was actually sharp. It was probably sharp enough to shave with after the 3k stone.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks Tom, appreciate the video. I wish I had a sink in my basement shop...would sure make waterstone sharpening less of a mess. No need to panic...looks like it got plenty sharp to me!

[Joe Tilson]

Thank you Tom. Nice setup and presentation. I look forward to the day for a setup similar to that.
You got it plenty sharp.

[george wilson]

Tom,I don't mean to deprecate your method,but compared to what I do to get a razor sharp edge,your method is wayyyy too complicated in my opinion. I spend only a fraction of that time sharpening a chisel freehand. And,my 3 stones and a diamond "stone" take up hardly any space,and are just stored on a shelf,stacked in their plastic boxes upon each other dry.For many years I just had the black and the white ceramic stones. Recently I blew $50 and got the UF Spyderco on a whim more than anything else. I just don't have space for that many stones,and have just a cheap plastic laundry sink which I hope to replace if I find a decent USED stainless sink at the junk yard.

For 16 years while in the 18th. C. public Musical Instrument Shop,I used only an oil stone for coarse,and a 2 1/2" x 4" Frictionite 2 sided razor stone,incorrectly with thin oil,and a strop(NOT an oil stone,but it worked. I had no water in the shop). They cost $6.00 at the time,I think(now worth a fortune in Australia!!. I had David sell several I still had in the wrappers). Very different methods of getting a razor sharp edge,but all of them produce the sharp edge I need to carve tiny,thin elements like lute roses. Anything less than a really sharp edge would put too much pressure on the very thin elements and break them.

Here's a rose carved with a bench knife below. 4" in diameter,from boxwood. The flowers are less than 1/16" thick,and much thinner in width than that in many places.

The Master Cabinet Maker was even more simplistic. He had an odd shaped Belgian coticle that Woodcraft USED to sell. He would SPIT on it and sharpen his chisels!! I never borrowed it!!:) I wanted a stone like his,for the sake of authenticity,but Woodcraft had quit selling them by then. no internet back then!


I fear you will eventually thoroughly clog up your pipes with non soluble stone sludge which settles to the bottom of pipes. I have warned people about this before. My bathroom sink gets REALLY clogged up just by knocking out my electric shaver! At least Hot Rod dissolves it,though.(That is heavy duty pipe cleaner,sulfuric acid based,pro stuff.) You may literally have to have the pipes replaced. That stuff builds up every time you sharpen a tool,and especially every time you flatten your stones. My pipes are about 40' to the septic tank. I WISH I had city sewage! And,there is hardly any downhill slope. I am CAREFUL what I pour down the shop sink!

[Simon MacGowen]

Tom,I don't mean to deprecate your method,but compared to what I do to get a razor sharp edge,your method is wayyyy too complicated in my opinion. I spend only a fraction of that time sharpening a chisel freehand.

I agree the method as portrayed in the video is overly complicated for me, using many more stones than necessary for ordinary day-to-day sharpening. I, too, spend far less time in getting that kind of edge -- and most of time on the 8000 stone alone, as I hone often, often and often before the edge needs major work. Each hone takes no more than 15 seconds, top. The edge stays sharp all the time. That's the beauty of free hand sharpening: quick, simple and sharp. Many people wait until their edges are dull and that's never my way.

However, the vid title says Sharpening my way and hence his way is just as good as any others'.

Simon

[Curt Putnam]

Interesting! I don't have a 3K or 10K stone and don't miss them for well treated edges. I tend to do mistreated edges on the WS 3000

I did notice that you left the water running the whole time. Can't do that out here in the southwest. Water police would be all over you.

Thanks for the vid.

[george wilson]

Yes,some people,like David Weaver,have to pay by the GALLON for city water. And,he is in Pittsburg,where there is no water shortage.

I disagree: Just because some way is a person's personal way,does NOT make it just as good as any other way. It just makes it "his way".

[Tom M King]

Any sharpening method is not the right method for everyone. I normally spend a lot less time too, but having to think about what I'm saying instead of just doing what I need to made it seem in slow motion. I didn't have a good test to show exactly how sharp the edge was. As I said earlier, it was probably sharp enough to shave with after the 3k stone, and definitely after the 6k. I don't know about that chisel, but a good quality cutting edge gone through the same progression would be way sharper than an 8,000 stone can produce. There is a difference in sharpness level between sharp enough to work, and sharp enough to work for a longer period of time.

We aren't just doing a single woodworking project, but doing all sorts of stuff on a 200 year old house, with more carpentry done than regular woodworking. This foolproof system works out great for me.

best thing to recommend to a new woodworker. With this system, I can tell one of my helpers to go start on the 6k stone at 30 degrees, and it comes back sharp.

In my other video of flattening panels, the first plane was ready to be honed again starting on the 6k stone, where I normally stop to hone too. That was a stock Stanley plane that had done the same sort of work on maybe 15 panels before that one. There were 32 panels, and I remember honing the only time since starting after we came back from lunch. I probably had done half the panels before lunch, but don't remember exactly. We me going for 6k up, without having to talk about it, might take a couple of minutes. Any extra minute put into getting more sharpness will pay a dividend of many times longer than that extra sharpening time by being able to do the same work for a longer time. I do what I do for a living, and often I have people standing there watching me. Not one person, including the ones paying me, have failed to be impressed. I didn't do the video to impress people here, but hopefully someone new to woodworking can get something out of it.

I just went all the way back to the 400 stone in the video to show the full process. I don't always flatten after every use, since it's not necessary. Compare any flattening time doing the same amount of flattening you're thinking about, with your setup and mine. If yours takes less time, I'd like to see it.

I know it's not for everyone. There is nothing to drag out. It sat there in that old house we worked on for a little over a year.

The sink in one of my shops that I use for sharpening has a drain pipe that exits straight out of the wall behind the sink into an Azalea bush, so you can't see it without knowing it's already there. This setup was for about a year, and no apparent damage. Sink traps today cost a few bucks, and can be changed in 30 seconds without tools. I've never had to change one for sharpening.

I didn't start out with this system, but gradually added parts until it got to this point. A hobbyist can easily get by with fewer stones, but I like fewest strokes. It helps to be able to deduct anything I put into tools.

The sink in my shop came from Community Forklift in Maryland. I paid 30 bucks for it including the faucet and sprayer. It has a built in sideboard, and with the sprayerr, I don't have to move the plate with the Diamond Lapping Film on it for stropping.

I hope this is not taken as an argumentative post. It's certainly not intended as such. But in any case, if anyone wants to make a bet on time and sharpness level from any starting point, with your system versus mine, I'll take any bet.

I used only oilstones for probably 30 years. I still use them if we are somewhere without running water, or if temps are too cold for hands in water. I like oilstones, but I don't want someone who is paying me what I charge to stand there and watch me sharpen something with oilstones.

Yeah, no cost for water here other than a few cents of electricity. It came out of the ground close by, and went back into the ground close by. There are probably even some of the same molecules in it that the dinosaurs drank. City people think in terms of wasting water, but it's different when there are no chemicals or processing added. The total number of available water molecules are about the same now as there were when the last comet hit the forming Earth. The Earth just recycles them on it's on, but has to have some expensive help to supply cities.

[george wilson]

You have no way of knowing my sharpening time,so best to not be taking any bets on it.

[Tom M King]

I did not intend it to be confrontational George. I have the upmost respect for you. The offer was open to anyone.

I don't have to use the whole setup. I just went over the whole system in the ten minutes, or whatever it was. It sets right there ready to go for whatever part of it is needed. The grinder with the CBN wheel sets right there behind where I was standing if there is a chunk out of an edge, and it has to be started from grinding. Most of the job in progress sharpening just goes from the 6k up, and nothing gets flattened for a number of sharpenings. I just showed the system. There is no way anyone can get from any state of edge to as sharp as the .1 micron lapping film will get you in any less time. If someone wants to stop at 8,000 grit, I don't have an 8k stone, but I could use the 6k and the 10k for about the same thing, but as I said, I like to go ahead and get something as sharp as I can get it.

I like competition. I'll take any bet from same state to same state in time taken. If it's to maximum sharpness from the same starting state in a given time, I'll take that one too. If it's from the same starting point in a given time to thickness of shaving taken, I'll take that one too. I know tone is taken wrong often in written responses on a forums, but I'm sitting here smiling, and ready to go.

[george wilson]

Everyone here seems to have their own cherished way of sharpening.( And everyone has explained theirs many times over on this forum.) I don't expect anyone to abandon their way just because I use a certain way. A few have adopted the ceramic stone method,and seem to like them. If you have a semi skilled crew working with you,a sharpening guide may be needed. In my situation,I personally trained all my apprentices to sharpen their tools before starting to make things. No one used a sharpening jig. It wasn't 18th. C.,for one reason. And,everyone had their own set of chisels and planes. Other tools were available on a community basis,though I didn't let anyone sharpen my carving tools. I did that.

I can't remember how many stones and lapping papers you used. 7 or 8? I use 3 stones: Diamond if the chisel has a nick,then black,then white ceramics. I strop on MDF with green LV compound.

I don't have to set a sharpening jig,or flatten my stones. How long it takes to sharpen depends upon how dull the chisel is,how hard the steel is,and probably other variables. I'm guessing that I have no chisels as soft as that blue handled one since my Marples are from the mid 60's. But,I'd guess that I sharpen a hard steel chisel in about 1/5 the time.

The issue I mentioned about clogging the pipes was not how much the sink cost. I hope to get a junkyard sink myself one of these days for cheap. The issue is what will it cost to replace pipes full of stone sludge. I won't have that issue either,as I just wipe the spritz of water off with a paper towel.

After trying many other stones and methods,and having the museum time and money to do so,this is what I have arrived at,and at my age,it will see me through.:)

[Karl Fife]

One empirical observation is worth 10,000 theories:

I suggest everyone in this forum should own an inexpensive $20 10x jeweler's loupe. With it, you can see EXACTLY what's going on with your own personal sharpening process, and you can separate your own sharpening facts from voodoo & ritual.

A loupe will enable you to see for certain, how many strokes it takes for stone #2 to "remove" the scratches left by stone #1 etc. Specifically, you'll be able to tell about your particular steel on your particular stone with your particular hand-pressure etc..

Then, you can see (empirically) that it's taking you, say, 40 strokes when you progress directly from 1000 to 8000, in contrast to taking only 10 strokes to replace 1000 grit with 5000 grit scratches, and 12 additional strokes to replace the 5000 grit scratches with your 8000 stone etc.. From there, you can decide whether a savings of 18-strokes (in this example) is a savings worthy of a separate step, cleaning the blade/guide between grits etc.

In the example of the OP, a loupe could shed light on why progressing too slowly, with too many stones of too similar grits is no better than (and slower than) "steps" of the right increment (e.g. double the grit number). It's only necessary to bring the ridges left by the previous grit down to the valleys. Abrading any more deeply than the 'valleys' left in the steel by previous grits, is empirically non-productive.

I don't use my loupe when I sharpen unless I want to check my work, because I generally know what's necessary, and when I'm just wasting time. My loupe also tells me whether my 'wiping' is effective, or whether if I'm bringing course grit to my finer stones.

I've been using this loupe: https://amzn.com/B005UHZ832
The larger 21mm lens and light diffuser and case are why I chose this one. Don't be fooled: anything stronger than 10x is useless.

[Tom M King]

I do this stuff for a living. There is no real need for a hobbyist to spend extra money to save a little time. Three stones would probably be a plenty if saving a little time didn't really matter. I remember one job we did, working on an old floor, where we had to remove about 35 cu. ft. with chisels around the edges. Think about a block of wood the size of a sheet of plywood a foot thick taken apart piece by piece with chisels. A job like that, where chisels were sharpened hundreds of times showed me where the weak points were in my system. Time mattered for that.
I felt like I was working in slow motion in the video, and kind of fumble fingered by thinking about what I was going to say instead of what I was doing, so it seemed a little slow, and clumsy to me. Probably not really bad for taking a chisel that had just finished getting paint up off of a hard brick floor, up through super sharp though. I wish I had done a practice run before making the video.

We have a horse farm on a lake, and this is one of the, thankfully not to many, weekends that we have a house full of company. I'll check back in later, but probably not until tonight.

[Robert Engel]

I didn't watch the entire video but your setup reminded me I think simple, repeatable and fast are high priorities in sharpening. We all have to figure out what works for us with our facilities. I'll offer a few things to consider:

I don't think flattening a back on the edge of a stone is a good idea. I use a stone pond on a countertop which is desk height (30" high). I keep the stones immersed in water between use and keep a squirt bottle handy to occasionally give the stone a dowse.

I primarily use 3 stones for touch up: 1250 diamond (800 if very dull)>4000 water>8000 water>strop.

Once I get a burr with the 1250 I hit the 4K maybe 6 strokes and the 8K maybe 15 strokes, then about 6 strokes on the strop.
I'm back to work in less than 2 minutes with a razor sharp edge. I would suggest you need to go higher than 3K.

Not saying my system is better, just illustrating that simpler=faster, and speed is part of the goal.

Sharpening is one area no one's way is better than another. The goal is consistent, sharp edges is the main thing, however you get there.

[george wilson]

I did my work for a living too,for 40 years,after I had already become good enough to be invited to join the museum as a master craftsman. And,that takes a little doing.

[Tomi Rosso]

Everytime I read these sharpening threads, I remember one old master, whose work and shop I saw after he was passed away. I don't know what it is in english, but he was some kind of carver, but he does use only knife, not carving couges.

His shop have very few tools. On the workbench was one knive and one sharpening stone. At corner was big grindstone. In here many old guys use that georges mentioned spit at stone method. I have used it too, when sharpening for example scythe during work. But for a point, that master was made wooden spoons so thin you could see almost through them. If that old man could made all decorations and so thin shapes with knife which was sparpened at course grindstone and fine benchstone, probably whit that spit on stone method, he could not be totally wrong. So keep it simple.

[george wilson]

As I mentioned,when I was in costume,I used 2 stones. The instruments posted here were made with tools sharpened on those stones and a strop. I got them shaving sharp.

[John Glendening]

I'm sure you know way more than I do about woodworking and craftsmanship, but there are lots of "his way"s - all of which are useful for learning, whether it's how to or how to do better.