Three New Stones

[ken hatch]

It must be stone day :p:

It is a sickness I know but.....I've three new stones on the bench and one more "in the mail." Two of the stones are JNats and the other is a Norton Hard Ark.


The two JNats are Suita's from different mines and both can be considered 95% finishing stones. The only reason to go to a finer stone is trying for ultimate sharpness that is usually not needed for day to day work. The one in the mail is also a Suita but courser and will be used as a setup stone.


The Norton, what can I say but wow. I went against Doctor's orders (in second week of recovery from rotator cuff repair) and tried it on a O-1 western iron. The chisel was set up with a med India then honed on the Norton Hard Ark followed by stropping. I couldn't believe how quickly I had a very sharp and usable iron. The Norton Hard Ark is not cheap for a Ark stone but damn Bubba it is fast and leaves an edge that just needs a little stropping. My new recommendation for any one just starting out is just that combination. For just a little over $200 USD you would have a lifetime sharpening set up. The only kicker is the Hard Ark should be from Norton, I've Hard Ark stones from sellers other than Norton and they are no where near as fast.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/threeStones160728_zps86o5qbzg.jpg


From left to right, Norton Hard Ark, Nakayama Suita, Shinden Suita.


More once I've two arms to work with.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

:D Now I know what So has been busy doing, hah.

Awesome stones. Both you and David have started me on an oil stone addiction as well.

[Luke Dupont]

:D Now I know what So has been busy doing, hah.

Awesome stones. Both you and David have started me on an oil stone addiction as well.

I'm also a victim.

As of today, I'll have an India and a full set of Arkansas stones :D

Fortunately, I think my addiction should end there. No way I can afford JNats in the near future, so I'm doing myself a favor by not even looking in to them!

> Ken, what other brands have you tried? I'm curious how Norton's hard compares to Dan's, which is what I have.

[Warren Mickley]

The Norton Hard Ark is not cheap for a Ark stone but damn Bubba it is fast and leaves an edge that just needs a little stropping. My new recommendation for any one just starting out is just that combination. For just a little over $200 USD you would have a lifetime sharpening set up. The only kicker is the Hard Ark should be from Norton, I've Hard Ark stones from sellers other than Norton and they are no where near as fast.


I would go easy on making recommendations for others with such little experience. I remember one guy pronounced the Spyderco stones part of "the ultimate" sharpening set up. He had had them for "several weeks". Another guy was touting the Bester stones which he had used for "quite a while now", "200+ edges".

I have used Arkansas stones for more than 40 years. A brand new Arkansas stone is sometimes quite coarsely finished and can cut aggressively for some time before breaking in. The downside is the finish it leaves on the tool is coarse also. I am not familiar with current offerings, but here is something David Weaver wrote in 2013:


I've gotten a fair number of norton stones, and while their fine stones are a little less fine than dan's, they still break in to fine with use (to clarify, the dan's stones are lapped, they start out much finer, but when the smoke clears and you've used both for a while, the dans trans is still quite a bit finer, so is the black, to the point that it's an excellent razor finisher).

[Luke Dupont]

I would go easy on making recommendations for others with such little experience. I remember one guy pronounced the Spyderco stones part of "the ultimate" sharpening set up. He had had them for "several weeks". Another guy was touting the Bester stones which he had used for "quite a while now", "200+ edges".

I have used Arkansas stones for more than 40 years. A brand new Arkansas stone is sometimes quite coarsely finished and can cut aggressively for some time before breaking in. The downside is the finish it leaves on the tool is coarse also. I am not familiar with current offerings, but here is something David Weaver wrote in 2013:

Initial polish/texture can definitely be misleading. From my impressions (and, they are strictly first impressions), I think Dan's Soft Arks actually come too highly polished, to the point of being finer than the natural grit of the stone itself. After dressing it with a diamond plate it cuts much faster, and has appeared to stay at a coarser grit, though I'll have to use it for quite a while to see if it stays coarser than it comes in the long-term.

Like you said though, it's way too early for me to draw any conclusions.

[Patrick Chase]

I would go easy on making recommendations for others with such little experience. I remember one guy pronounced the Spyderco stones part of "the ultimate" sharpening set up. He had had them for "several weeks". Another guy was touting the Bester stones which he had used for "quite a while now", "200+ edges".

I have used Arkansas stones for more than 40 years. A brand new Arkansas stone is sometimes quite coarsely finished and can cut aggressively for some time before breaking in. The downside is the finish it leaves on the tool is coarse also. I am not familiar with current offerings, but here is something David Weaver wrote in 2013:

There's also stone-to-stone variability to consider. These are after all natural stones.

I have both a Dan's translucent ark and the Norton. After working them in I don't see much difference. They're both quality stones.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

You guys are killing me with the JNats. This is like telling your friend who is trying to stop drinking, "Hey buddy, I just had the best craft brew ever- here's a picture of it; in fact, here- let me give you a little taste..."

[george wilson]

Warren,I have been using the Spydercos since about the late 80's. Having tried many others,I have settled on my diamond plate,black,and white Spydercos(and a newly added UF Spyderco) as my final sharpening outfit. I strop on a piece of MDF with LV green compound.

Compared to the ceramics,white Arkansas stones seem VERY soft. I have very easily re ground new shapes from broken white Ark. slip stones. Could not do that with ceramics. And,I was unable to QUITE raise a razor edge on a D2 steel Bowie knife I made with a white Arkansas stone. A white ceramic stone brought the razor edge right up on the D2 blade. D2 was just too hard for the Arkansas stone to sharpen.

Hardly any of you will have this problem as woodworkers. But,as a wood AND metal worker, I need stones hard enough to sharpen anything up to and including carbide lathe tools @ 70+ RC. The Titanium nitride coatings on some run to 80 RC. The ceramics will sharpen them all.

I did use white and black Arkansas stones for many years.

[David Wong]

Ken,

Thanks for sharing pictures of your new stones. My favorite two sharpening stones are both Suita's.

Here is a photo (from left to right) of my Ohira shiro Suita, and my Nakayama Suita. Neither stone has any provenance, so the quarry of origin is suspect. When wet, the Nakayama Suita is a deep purple color. It is maybe a hair coarser than the shiro Suita. The shiro Suita has a nice gold and purple colored renge pattern in it. I use them both as everyday finish stones. They will both slurry without a nagura.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pXv9o_CEG1mjsHQkRUchOIHfIo1i949B2uDRIjtLhQMb9LLsSp cfMVRU_R1BhS8D2UDoHz9r9G6UHhsWHbTS2yLsv1zxfvXPcp4Z 2FL0F4GBBv6lxfcWZZoqW-vpv3j01iKkgG5E_u9LbPVa0T1EC4vMdKCNTm_cWwz_LGHYDnjC mpHElknjKwJFCgIO_Dg78kaOmNkn79uR2mceAFOOgdZBQbd4j1 RPd2wNKFAW1RmKD5D1XvophKefAjx1COt9w6n40Ux5QMy1YT_Z YGVExlLyRHshNo3gpBVekNu5iDtgJ58x1Ned6ioe0ky6SFrI6f y9gTOM4gDSaUMUK5o1bVyCEpHn1lGvir6Olks3vL-Iazd6T4TIbiBAJ1mJxa_RAIN38xYE4yfwq-dl6MpDrr4JBZtkPk7z1d8651gZYrugUJv1cr0NVJUn7dE9AkOf E5TZnE08zxtM-nxlSpf67jc7vDUBj0VQFC7KklRxZh9cbjWHkjyX4A8w3dmJdLJ JO_bz2viG_VIACXR84LqSnvX6XZuPVIZ_EAMzC-E0D8Up3ff0nNvTg8MrRu4ZXIOrW8XspSHt_hxRddvBG2NU5bHw a6DilHc=w800-h600-no

[Brian Holcombe]

Cool! I like your bases as well, nice work.

[ken hatch]

:D Now I know what So has been busy doing, hah.

Awesome stones. Both you and David have started me on an oil stone addiction as well.

Brian,

You know the drill :). So-san is incredible.

As far as an additional oil stone addiction, good on you or is it sorry about that :D. I may have posted this before but I think of my oil stones as my 95% stones. With Western O-1 iron they are quick and easy to use and for 95% or more of my work they will get the iron sharp enough and the edge holds up well.

My current problem with the new stones is I'm one armed and will be for the next four weeks and then I have to drive Ms Daisy and the critters to Oregon for three weeks. I expect it will be a couple of months before I can get back in the shop and have iron meet stone then wood.

ken

[ken hatch]

I would go easy on making recommendations for others with such little experience. I remember one guy pronounced the Spyderco stones part of "the ultimate" sharpening set up. He had had them for "several weeks". Another guy was touting the Bester stones which he had used for "quite a while now", "200+ edges".

I have used Arkansas stones for more than 40 years. A brand new Arkansas stone is sometimes quite coarsely finished and can cut aggressively for some time before breaking in. The downside is the finish it leaves on the tool is coarse also. I am not familiar with current offerings, but here is something David Weaver wrote in 2013:

Warren,

I suspect you are correct.

ken

[ken hatch]

Ken,

Thanks for sharing pictures of your new stones. My favorite two sharpening stones are both Suita's.

Here is a photo (from left to right) of my Ohira shiro Suita, and my Nakayama Suita. Neither stone has any provenance, so the quarry of origin is suspect. When wet, the Nakayama Suita is a deep purple color. It is maybe a hair coarser than the shiro Suita. The shiro Suita has a nice gold and purple colored renge pattern in it. I use them both as everyday finish stones. They will both slurry without a nagura.



David,

For some reason I'm not seeing your photos yet Brian must have.

ken

[ken hatch]

You guys are killing me with the JNats. This is like telling your friend who is trying to stop drinking, "Hey buddy, I just had the best craft brew ever- here's a picture of it; in fact, here- let me give you a little taste..."

Malcolm,

You can get a taste for not much money :D. What come next is the problem.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

David,

For some reason I'm not seeing your photos yet Brian must have.

ken

I also see no pictures.

jtk

[David Wong]

I also see no pictures.

jtk

Hopefully I fixed the problem. Brian probably saw the pictures since I was logged into the forum? Each time I attempt to share a direct link from my Google Photo shared album, I run into trouble.

[ken hatch]

Hopefully I fixed the problem. Brian probably saw the pictures since I was logged into the forum? Each time I attempt to share a direct link from my Google Photo shared album, I run into trouble.

Fixed....Good looking stones.

ken

[Warren Mickley]

I looked at David's stones yesterday, but now I can no longer see them.

[Steve Voigt]

I would go easy on making recommendations for others with such little experience. I remember one guy pronounced the Spyderco stones part of "the ultimate" sharpening set up. He had had them for "several weeks". Another guy was touting the Bester stones which he had used for "quite a while now", "200+ edges".

I have used Arkansas stones for more than 40 years. A brand new Arkansas stone is sometimes quite coarsely finished and can cut aggressively for some time before breaking in. The downside is the finish it leaves on the tool is coarse also.

I completely agree. Over the last few years, I have seen several threads that go like this:

😀😀😀 My new Ark cuts really fast!!!

(Three weeks later)

😂😂😂 My Ark barely cuts anything any more.

If you want your oilstones to cut fast, you need to dress them regularly, either with a diamond stone or with SiC on glass. If you don't want them to cut fast, don't dress them. It's up to you.

* This isn't a dig at Ken, who's used oilstones for years IIRC. I think his comment about the Norton was just about the initial condition of the stone.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian,

You know the drill :). So-san is incredible.

As far as an additional oil stone addiction, good on you or is it sorry about that :D. I may have posted this before but I think of my oil stones as my 95% stones. With Western O-1 iron they are quick and easy to use and for 95% or more of my work they will get the iron sharp enough and the edge holds up well.

My current problem with the new stones is I'm one armed and will be for the next four weeks and then I have to drive Ms Daisy and the critters to Oregon for three weeks. I expect it will be a couple of months before I can get back in the shop and have iron meet stone then wood.

ken

Glad to hear you are on the mend at least, but as I found out after an operation to repair a hernia....a few weeks is a long time to not use my tools, for me eight weeks was recommended and my wife would like to kill me as I was already gardening two days later, but I did manage to go a few weeks without woodworking.

So got me some chisels just recently (8-10 months wait), he's good people.

David advised me on switching from synthetic water stones to oil stones for the rough grits up through soft ark, after that I move to Jnats. It's been interesting, previously I found I had to surface the water stones very very often, literally I will make one pass on the stone then surface it. I now have india stones in coarse and fine, along with the soft ark and they stay flat much longer, more akin to what I would expect from an asagi or suita. I can use them more normally and when I move up a grit I can remove all of the previous scratches with relative ease because the surface is truly flat, which as you know when you go up a grit that gets increasingly difficult to do. Frankly the synthetic water stones were driving me nuts.

I will have some crystolon stones on the way shortly, just debating which size to get. I have a 320 shapton which I use for rough work but I swear it goes out of flat if I look at it. The coarse India seems to act a little finer than that Shapton, so I expect a coarse Crystolon will genuinely replace the Shapton's spot in my line up, and with six chisels to work from the rough I will need something that works fast.

https://brianholcombewoodworkerblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/04/img_4205-1.jpg


Hopefully I fixed the problem. Brian probably saw the pictures since I was logged into the forum? Each time I attempt to share a direct link from my Google Photo shared album, I run into trouble.

I saw them previously but now they're gone. FWIW I upload everything onto Photobucket, but now that I'm using Wordpress I may do all of my uploading there.

[ken hatch]

I completely agree. Over the last few years, I have seen several threads that go like this:

 My new Ark cuts really fast!!!

(Three weeks later)

 My Ark barely cuts anything any more.

If you want your oilstones to cut fast, you need to dress them regularly, either with a diamond stone or with SiC on glass. If you don't want them to cut fast, don't dress them. It's up to you.

* This isn't a dig at Ken, who's used oilstones for years IIRC. I think his comment about the Norton was just about the initial condition of the stone.

Steve,

You RC, Ark stones have been my goto stones for years. I'm in the dress 'em often camp. The Norton was noticeably faster than one of the freshly dressed black hard Ark, will it settle....who knows but we will see. BTW, my advice for a new sharpener is still the same: A med india and a hard Ark, followed by a strop. Can I get sharper and longer lasting edges on JNats? Yep, but are they needed....not often, in fact on JNats I will usually stop at about the same level of "polish/sharpness" as the oil stones.

ken

[Patrick Chase]

I looked at David's stones yesterday, but now I can no longer see them.

Too much information!

Our passing obsessions with other peoples' pairs of stones are and should be deeply private matters. :-)

[Brian Holcombe]

I completely agree. Over the last few years, I have seen several threads that go like this:

 My new Ark cuts really fast!!!

(Three weeks later)

 My Ark barely cuts anything any more.

If you want your oilstones to cut fast, you need to dress them regularly, either with a diamond stone or with SiC on glass. If you don't want them to cut fast, don't dress them. It's up to you.

* This isn't a dig at Ken, who's used oilstones for years IIRC. I think his comment about the Norton was just about the initial condition of the stone.

I'm surprised that takes three weeks. :D

I went into oil stones with eye's peeled as I expected they would die down pretty quickly, and they did. I also surface multiple times per session, but my goal is to make a stupidly flat bevel, not sure I would surface as often with a normal goal in mind.

[Patrick Chase]

I will have some crystolon stones on the way shortly, just debating which size to get. I have a 320 shapton which I use for rough work but I swear it goes out of flat if I look at it.

The 320 Shapton is a pretty horrible coarse-grit stone. As you say the binder is quite soft and it dishes easily as a result (oddly the #220 has almost the opposite problems). In addition to being a major hassle, it's by far the least cost-effective coarse-grit stone I've ever tried. I like the Cerax 320 and the Sigma 400 in that grit range FWIW. The Cerax is very cost-effective (in the 50 mm version) while the Sigma is uniquely dish-resistant for such a coarse stone.

I also have India and Crystolon stones, and none of them cut anywhere near as fast as the aforementioned Cerax or Sigma Waterstones. For me at least the hassle of flattening is worth it. I've had good luck flattening those with an Atoma #140 plate FWIW. I don't use it on stones below #300 though.

EDIT: IMO for serious flattening (whether of backs or bevels) by hand nothing beats 45 um or 60 um (#330 and #250 respectively) diamond paste on a mild steel plate. Yes, you have to condition the plate every so often by lapping on SiC, but the speed has to be experienced to be believed.

[Brian Holcombe]

Points taken, though I'm pretty set now that I'm done with low grit synthetic water stones. I may pick up the diamonds as that is something I don't think of much but it is an excellent solution.

[ken hatch]

Points taken, though I'm pretty set now that I'm done with low grit synthetic water stones. I may pick up the diamonds as that is something I don't think of much but it is an excellent solution.

Brian,

Some of the diamond stones will have large rogue particles and leave deep scratches that are very hard to remove. The Atoma stones do not seem to be as guilty as some of the others.

I keep trying to give some love to synthetic water stones because they can be fast and fine but I always end up going back to naturals because of the hassle factor. I know some is because I have a "dry" shop but bottom line I do this for enjoyment and I get little pleasure from stone maintenance and clean up.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

I should be more specific but I've had a few single malts so it's best I remain vague. Talking about diamond paste on a plate as opposed to diamond plates or stones. I don't like sharpening with diamond stones and may or may not like diamond paste but it sounds promising.

I will add the crystolon all the same as diamonds can be very harsh toward very very hard steel edges,

[ken hatch]

I should be more specific but I've had a few single malts so it's best I remain vague. Talking about diamond paste on a plate as opposed to diamond plates or stones. I don't like sharpening with diamond stones and may or may not like diamond paste but it sounds promising.

I will add the crystolon all the same as diamonds can be very harsh toward very very hard steel edges,

Brian,

I've been known to finish most evenings off with a single malt or two. In prep for retiring I've been trying some blends and even a few Whiskey's in an attempt to do my part and save a buck or two. So far it's no joy I may just have to budget for the 12 year olds.

Good luck with the paste and post what you find.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

Will do! There are plenty of great 12's. Bunnahabhain comes to mind, only thing that would trouble me in that regard is that I would no longer be able to lean on my favorite which is lagavulin 16.

[ken hatch]

Will do! There are plenty of great 12's. Bunnahabhain comes to mind, only thing that would trouble me in that regard is that I would no longer be able to lean on my favorite which is lagavulin 16.

Brian,

So you like the smoke and peat, I've several Islay Whisky's in my rotation Including Lagavulin 16 but I've never tried Bunnahabhain 12, a must do. One of my favorite day to day Whisky's is Glenkinchie 12 it is more of a Highland Whisky but with a under taste of peat smoke.

What to me is strange, is MsBubba (should be MsMcBubba :)), a native Scott, does not like Whisky but loves Tequila and what is even stranger her Tequila cost more than my 12 and 16 year olds. Go figure.

ken

[Warren Mickley]

There is sort of a one dimensional theory of sharpening which suggests that we can judge the quality of the edge by the grit number of the last medium that worked it. The reality is much more complicated, but this numerical grit theory has led to some odd consequences. One is that it has placed a premium on stones which cut fast. If one 6000 stone cuts faster than another 6000 it must be superior, no matter what kind of surfaces or edge it leaves behind. Thus we have really sharp and harsh stones like Shaptons or diamonds that leave a battered surface instead of more gentle stones that leave a more refined edge for the same grit size.

Another consequence of this simplistic grit theory is that people have struggled to come up with some abrasive that is inherent in strop leather. They cannot accept that the plain leather is doing its job without some hard particles involved. One guy thinks the horses must have silica in their sweat, one guy thinks the horse must have embedded dust when it rolled on the ground, another thinks the tanning chemicals must be doing the job.

A better method of judging edges is to look at the wood surface that the tool leaves behind. At one time Shapton 16K or maybe 15K were widely used at hand tool events. What I noticed was that even freshly sharpened irons yielded a surface on the wood which was not as fine as that from a soft Arkansas stone. Does that mean the soft Arkansas is 20K or something? I think the answer is that the Arkansas is good at polishing, while the Shapton is good at removing material. It was designed to remove material, not to polish edges.

There is a place for stones that remove material in a reasonable amount of time, although too harsh a stone will leave a surface that is more difficult to polish. The Arkansas stones are good at smoothing scratch patterns and polishing. Trying to make them act like Shaptons or diamonds or Besters will diminish their capacity for polishing.

[ken hatch]

There is sort of a one dimensional theory of sharpening which suggests that we can judge the quality of the edge by the grit number of the last medium that worked it. The reality is much more complicated, but this numerical grit theory has led to some odd consequences. One is that it has placed a premium on stones which cut fast. If one 6000 stone cuts faster than another 6000 it must be superior, no matter what kind of surfaces or edge it leaves behind. Thus we have really sharp and harsh stones like Shaptons or diamonds that leave a battered surface instead of more gentle stones that leave a more refined edge for the same grit size.

Another consequence of this simplistic grit theory is that people have struggled to come up with some abrasive that is inherent in strop leather. They cannot accept that the plain leather is doing its job without some hard particles involved. One guy thinks the horses must have silica in their sweat, one guy thinks the horse must have embedded dust when it rolled on the ground, another thinks the tanning chemicals must be doing the job.

A better method of judging edges is to look at the wood surface that the tool leaves behind. At one time Shapton 16K or maybe 15K were widely used at hand tool events. What I noticed was that even freshly sharpened irons yielded a surface on the wood which was not as fine as that from a soft Arkansas stone. Does that mean the soft Arkansas is 20K or something? I think the answer is that the Arkansas is good at polishing, while the Shapton is good at removing material. It was designed to remove material, not to polish edges.

There is a place for stones that remove material in a reasonable amount of time, although too harsh a stone will leave a surface that is more difficult to polish. The Arkansas stones are good at smoothing scratch patterns and polishing. Trying to make them act like Shaptons or diamonds or Besters will diminish their capacity for polishing.

Warren,

Thank you....For years I've said "Shinny ain't necessarily sharp", what matters is the scratch pattern of the iron. To my eye natural stones leave a "better" scratch pattern and a sharper, longer lasting cutting edge. Of course YMMV.

ken

[Patrick Chase]

Will do! There are plenty of great 12's. Bunnahabhain comes to mind, only thing that would trouble me in that regard is that I would no longer be able to lean on my favorite which is lagavulin 16.

Lagavulin... mmm, peat.

[ken hatch]

The third JNat arrived today. A Ohira Suita, from So-san's description it should be coarse for a finishing stone but will make a very good medium set up stone.

The new one is in the middle, BTW I mislabeled the small stone on the right. It is a Shinden Genseki:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/threeStonesJNats160730_zpsbadijrta.jpg

Even if I can't use them for a bit, they sure are pretty to look at.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian,

So you like the smoke and peat, I've several Islay Whisky's in my rotation Including Lagavulin 16 but I've never tried Bunnahabhain 12, a must do. One of my favorite day to day Whisky's is Glenkinchie 12 it is more of a Highland Whisky but with a under taste of peat smoke.

What to me is strange, is MsBubba (should be MsMcBubba :)), a native Scott, does not like Whisky but loves Tequila and what is even stranger her Tequila cost more than my 12 and 16 year olds. Go figure.

ken

Hah, that is interesting. Fine Tequila is a bit lost on me, I could try it next to something above average and probably not know the difference. Before you retire try Bunnahabhain 25, sure to change your life. If So hasn't quite ruined you with Jnats that will finish the job.


There is sort of a one dimensional theory of sharpening which suggests that we can judge the quality of the edge by the grit number of the last medium that worked it. The reality is much more complicated, but this numerical grit theory has led to some odd consequences. One is that it has placed a premium on stones which cut fast. If one 6000 stone cuts faster than another 6000 it must be superior, no matter what kind of surfaces or edge it leaves behind. Thus we have really sharp and harsh stones like Shaptons or diamonds that leave a battered surface instead of more gentle stones that leave a more refined edge for the same grit size.

Another consequence of this simplistic grit theory is that people have struggled to come up with some abrasive that is inherent in strop leather. They cannot accept that the plain leather is doing its job without some hard particles involved. One guy thinks the horses must have silica in their sweat, one guy thinks the horse must have embedded dust when it rolled on the ground, another thinks the tanning chemicals must be doing the job.

A better method of judging edges is to look at the wood surface that the tool leaves behind. At one time Shapton 16K or maybe 15K were widely used at hand tool events. What I noticed was that even freshly sharpened irons yielded a surface on the wood which was not as fine as that from a soft Arkansas stone. Does that mean the soft Arkansas is 20K or something? I think the answer is that the Arkansas is good at polishing, while the Shapton is good at removing material. It was designed to remove material, not to polish edges.

There is a place for stones that remove material in a reasonable amount of time, although too harsh a stone will leave a surface that is more difficult to polish. The Arkansas stones are good at smoothing scratch patterns and polishing. Trying to make them act like Shaptons or diamonds or Besters will diminish their capacity for polishing.

What was really eye opening to me when I began with Japanese natural stones (and my continuation into Arkansas stones) is how fine of an edge they leave at their respective 'grit'. I certainly agree that getting caught up in the numbers doesn't show anywhere near the real picture as it's been my experience that natural stones (of which a real grit number of 8000 is about as fine a grit as you can find in natural stones) often produce a much more refined edge than synthetics that are even considered much finer in terms of grit.

[Brian Holcombe]

The third JNat arrived today. A Ohira Suita, from So-san's description it should be coarse for a finishing stone but will make a very good medium set up stone.

The new one is in the middle, BTW I mislabeled the small stone on the right. It is a Shinden Genseki:

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/threeStonesJNats160730_zpsbadijrta.jpg

Even if I can't use them for a bit, they sure are pretty to look at.

ken

Send them to NJ for a few weeks :D The Ohira is probably pretty close to my Yaginoshima in terms of finish.

[Patrick Chase]

Warren,

Thank you....For years I've said "Shinny ain't necessarily sharp", what matters is the scratch pattern of the iron. To my eye natural stones leave a "better" scratch pattern and a sharper, longer lasting cutting edge. Of course YMMV.

Natural... you mean like "DNats (http://www.amplexproducts.com/powders.htm)"?

See the bottom product on that page - it's a "natural", but would likely leave the harshest scratch pattern of all as it's significantly harder and more aggressive than the synthetic diamond used in most plates and pastes.

Seriously, I suspect that your underlying preference is for softer abrasives like Silicon dioxide (as found in both JNats and Arks).

EDIT: Amplex == Norton (both subsidiaries of St Gobain)

[ken hatch]

Send them to NJ for a few weeks :D The Ohira is probably pretty close to my Yaginoshima in terms of finish.


Brian,

I should, it is killing me to let 'em sit but MsBubba will kill me if I don't.

So said for awhile this Ohira was his normal finish stone. It has already been lacquered and feels ready to go. When I return from Mexico lacquering the sides and bottoms of the other two will be first up.

I'm with you on Tequila, the "good stuff" is only a year old, you might as well be drinking 'shine but she likes it and likes it "neat" so she must be able to tell the difference and as always.... You know the correct response...."Yes dear o' light of my life, whatever you want ".

ken

[ken hatch]

Natural... you mean like "DNats (http://www.amplexproducts.com/powders.htm)"?

See the bottom product on that page - it's a "natural", but would likely leave the harshest scratch pattern of all as it's significantly harder and more aggressive than the synthetic diamond used in most plates and pastes.

Seriously, I suspect that your underlying preference is for softer abrasives like Silicon dioxide (as found in both JNats and Arks).

EDIT: Amplex == Norton (both subsidiaries of St Gobain)

Damn engineers:D, I guess that "natural stones" should be "naturally formed stones":).

Busted, I like HC steels like O-1 and the Japanese White Paper steels which in turn work better with softer abrasives. Warren said it better than I could, the harder abrasives are good for removing metal, the softer ones are better for polishing.

BTW, I've never really understood the "why" I like HC steel and natural stones until reading some of the replies on some of the sharpening threads. Now I understand, where before the preference was just from experience of what worked to give the best balance between sharpness, longevity, and effort.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

So likes a medium finisher, which often times that works all the same for me as well. Though I tend to only work the backs with a Nakayama since I dont want them to wear away any quicker.

I just finished the Nakayama in cashew lacquer finally after so long, I had previously only shellacked it. The cashew lacquer is really thick and takes forever to cure, so your probably right to do it now while you can't use the stone.