Rasp to replace USA Nicholson 49? Grobet?

[Mike Dowell]

I'm looking to replace my #49 Nicholson (USA made) rasp. I understand that they moved their operations out of the country, and the rasp they sell now is not the same quality it once was.

What are you all using? I've seen the "Grobet" rasps, and they are 25 bucks more, but they look nice. Any experience?

[lowell holmes]

I replaced my Nicholson with an Ariou 10. I bought it on line from Tools for Working Wood. I am extremely happy with it.

Nicholson used to have a good reputation, but the ones I have are not quality. If I had the money I spent on them, the Ariou would not have cost me so much.

[Patrick Chase]

I'm looking to replace my #49 Nicholson (USA made) rasp. I understand that they moved their operations out of the country, and the rasp they sell now is not the same quality it once was.

What are you all using? I've seen the "Grobet" rasps, and they are 25 bucks more, but they look nice. Any experience?

The can't-go-wrong options are Auriou and Liogier hand-stitched rasps. I have a set of Aurious as well as the Nicholson 49/50, and the Aurious are in a completely different league in terms of speed/finish tradeoffs. Liogier are reputedly similar.

With that said, the "Ajax" ones at Lee Valley (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=20133&cat=1,42524) are very hard to beat for the price. They have randomized toothing like Aurious/Liogier, but pricing is similar to the Nicholsons for much better quality. I also have a set of these and they're quite good.

The Grobets have regular machine-cut toothing, so they're not likely to cut as smoothly as any of the options with randomized teeth (Auriou, Liogier, Ajax, etc).

[Mike Dowell]

Excellent advice. I've never heard of those less expensive rasps on LV. MAJOR price difference compared to the Auriou. Gonna have to think this one over. I'm a guy that normally buys top, or close to top of the line tools on the theory "buy it once". I've got a really nice Veritas low angle plane which was recommended here, and I love it dearly. When I buy another plane, it will definitely be a Veritas or LN. That said, when it comes to a rasp, I'm half tempted to adopt the attitude that if I just buy the less expensive model, it will undoubtedly cut nicer and faster than my worn out Nicholson, so I'll never know what I'm missing if I never get to use the Auriou.

[Dave Bozell]

You can always get the Nicholson sharpened. Boggs Tools does a very nice job of sharpening tools for a very reasonable price. If the file that you send them is beyond sharpening, they charge a very low amount (and still sharpen it). I've been very pleased with their service.

[Patrick Chase]

Excellent advice. I've never heard of those less expensive rasps on LV. MAJOR price difference compared to the Auriou. Gonna have to think this one over. I'm a guy that normally buys top, or close to top of the line tools on the theory "buy it once". I've got a really nice Veritas low angle plane which was recommended here, and I love it dearly. When I buy another plane, it will definitely be a Veritas or LN. That said, when it comes to a rasp, I'm half tempted to adopt the attitude that if I just buy the less expensive model, it will undoubtedly cut nicer and faster than my worn out Nicholson, so I'll never know what I'm missing if I never get to use the Auriou.

You could get the Ajax ones and the selectively upgrade as you figure out your preferences. FWIW I have 3 Aurious (a cabinet rasp, a modeller's rasp, and a rat-tail) and then 4 Ajax rasps to fill in the gaps in my collection.

The only thing that's duplicated between the two sets is the big cabinet rasp, as I wanted a decent-but-not-expensive "everyday tool" in addition to the Auriou.

[Warren Weckesser]

Does anyone have experience with the Narex rasps? They are available at Highland Woodworking: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narex-rasps.aspx

[Jim Koepke]

Does anyone have experience with the Narex rasps? They are available at Highland Woodworking: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narex-rasps.aspx

It appears the Narex rasps are made by a machine to guarantee "that the pattern is uniform."

The Nicholson rasps have a "machine random" pattern. The hand stitched rasps have a truly random pattern. A random pattern means the teeth do not form channels on the work from all the teeth being right inline behind the ones before it.

jtk

[Josh Nelson]

Does anyone have experience with the Narex rasps? They are available at Highland Woodworking: http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/narex-rasps.aspx



I have both the Narex rough and fine cut and while I'm happy with both (especially the rough, that thing is a monster) you will form channels with it. My brother has the Aurious rasps and they are a joy but I don't mind spending a little extra-time with a card scraper.

[Ryan Mooney]

The gramercy rasps from Tools For Working Wood are also pretty nice. I have a #11 and a smaller round one and they've both been good performers.

They're a bit more than the Ajax ones (double ish) but a bit less than the Aurious/Liogier generally are.

[lowell holmes]

Just splurge and get an Ariou. :)

You will not regret it. It will be a lifetime tool that is well behaved and does what you want every time. If you store your files and rasps wrapped in aluminum foil, they will not rust.

[Patrick Chase]

It appears the Narex rasps are made by a machine to guarantee "that the pattern is uniform."
jtk

Worse still they use a *CNC* stitching machine that they proudly use to guarantee "that the pattern is uniform", which is just bat-sh*t crazy.

(if you have a CNC stitcher then randomization is a simple matter of dithering the positions appropriately)

[george wilson]

You can still find #49's on Ebay.

[Mike Dowell]

You can still find #49's on Ebay.
I grabbed the one on LV. If I'm not happy, I'll get the better, more expensive rasp. Thanks for the input!

[Tony Zaffuto]

As already mentioned, Boggs does a great job at sharpening rasps and files. If they cannot sharpen to their standard, you will receive your tool back, sharpened as good as they could, with no charge, although the handled will be painted red so they know to not try it again.

Also, who gets by with just one rasp or one type of rasp?

[Patrick Chase]

The thing with the newer Nicholson 49/50s is that the tooth profile and placement are messed up, and no amount of sharpening can fix that.

In particular the teeth are larger than in the old USA-made files (or Auriou, or LV/Ajax) but with about the same or tighter pitch, which causes the tool to load up easily. Also, mine had "rogue teeth" out very close to and in some cases contacting the edges, and many others have reported the same thing.

[Pete Taran]

Mike,

While others apparently disagree, I don't see any difference between the USA and Brazil rasp models. Attached is a picture of the #50 which has the finer tooth pattern. If anything, the Brazil rasp has more teeth on the flat side than the US model. I'm sure than the hand cut rasps are superior, but I don't see any difference in quality between the two in optics or use.

Also, Grobet stuff is now made in India. The company that actually made their product, Vallorbe, had a falling out with Grobet, and now they have no Swiss made products. I used to carry them, and still have a few left if anyone is looking to get any of the old Swiss production product.

Disclaimer, I do sell Nicholson products on my website. Having said that, I wouldn't sell them if they weren't any good.

Regards,

Pete


342000

[george wilson]

The individual teeth on the Brazilian rasp look larger than the old USA one. Just look at the individual tooth size. True,the Brazilian one does have teeth out closer to the edge.

I am not a rasp fan,and have not tried a Brazilian one myself. I have a few to tide me oveer,and I use other means than rasps when possible. Something about rasps just rubs my sense of aesthetics the wrong way.

[Pete Taran]

I think your perception of tooth size is an illusion. The USA model on the left has been used. I hit it with the file card, but there are still bits of wood in the teeth that I think makes the optics appear different. Back in the day when I used to sit at a bench and smooth out saw handles, rasps were the way to go!

Regards,

Pete

[Patrick Chase]

Mike,

While others apparently disagree, I don't see any difference between the USA and Brazil rasp models. Attached is a picture of the #50 which has the finer tooth pattern. If anything, the Brazil rasp has more teeth on the flat side than the US model. I'm sure than the hand cut rasps are superior, but I don't see any difference in quality between the two in optics or use.

Also, Grobet stuff is now made in India. The company that actually made their product, Vallorbe, had a falling out with Grobet, and now they have no Swiss made products. I used to carry them, and still have a few left if anyone is looking to get any of the old Swiss production product.

Disclaimer, I do sell Nicholson products on my website. Having said that, I wouldn't sell them if they weren't any good.

Regards,

Pete
VintageSaws.com

342000

No doubt you have vastly more experience with this than I, so I'll stick to my own experience. My Brazilian 49 and 50 both have teeth out close enough to the edge on the flat side that the edge is significantly distorted. It looks like yours may have a bit of mild distortion on the right side, though it's hard to tell because the shadows are going that direction.

I've also compared mine to a friend's older model, and the teeth on mine are definitely bigger and have a higher "fill factor" (teeth take up higher %age of area, less flat steel visible). When I tried them side by side I preferred the cutting action of his, though that's an admittedly subjective metric. What I saw was basically consistent with what Joel Moskowitz describes here: https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/181/It%20should%20not%20be%20this%20hard%20-%20We%20Discontinue%20%20Nicholson%20Patternmaker' s%20Rasps%20Because%20of%20Quality%20Issues.

Perhaps there's either manufacturing variability, or some other process change that happened slightly before the relocation?

Agreed that Grobet has gone to h*ll. I had to fight with them to return a box of drastically out-of-spec taper files a while back.

[Mike Holbrook]

Iwasaki, sold by Lee Valley as "Japanese Milled-Tooth files". Highland Woodworking sells them too. I have had about 6 for 5 years or more. The "teeth" are more like float teeth, cutting small shavings vs saw dust, which I prefer. They are Japanese hardened steel, last very well and come in a helpful assortment of sizes and shapes. They are much less than the hand made rasps and I prefer the way they cut. I have a few of the hand made ones too.

[Derek Cohen]

I tried the Iwasaki files today at the Perth Wood Show, and was very impressed with the speed they cut and the fine surface they left - light years better than the Auriou rasps I have used for several years. I ended up purchasing the two large ones they offer. I think they are coarse and medium.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Phil Mueller]

I purchased a number of Iwasaki files and rasps when Woodcraft had them on sale...have worked well for me.

[george wilson]

I prefer the Iwasakis too. They cut rather than just tear the wood out. There is something about just tearing the wood out via a rasp that just rubs me the wrong way. Just my own gut feeling.

[David Carroll]

There is something about just tearing the wood out via a rasp that just rubs me the wrong way.

Ha! Pun intended?

[Mike Holbrook]

One more thing I will add about the Iwasaki rasps. For some reason the fine rasps seem to cut as well for me as the medium and coarse ones. I'm not sure why. I know it does not make sense, but I have heard a few others who have used them for a good while make similar comments. Using the Iwasakis is just more like using a plane IMHO. YMMV