Sheet goods breakdown & worktable: sawhorses vs. folding plastic table

[Ken Cobbing]

Hi all,

I'm just getting started on some basic woodworking projects and need a largish work surface, especially for breaking down sheet goods with my track saw.

I've spent a bunch of time browsing the web for ideas and have found *lots* of examples of nice collapsible work surfaces, many of which use sawhorses. So I picked up a couple of nice DeWalt folding sawhorses and started planning on how to build a collapsible/stowable framework for the work surface.

Then I got to thinking - why not just use one of those $50 folding plastic tables (6' x 3') from Costco with a sacrificial surface on top? Much more simple, stowable, lighter, and easier to set up/take down than a sawhorse "jigsaw" table.

340734

Why aren't these tables recommended over a DIY sawhorse table? I was thinking that maybe they aren't strong enough, but then I read one of the manufacturer's posts on that topic here:

http://blog.lifetime.com/article/356129/how-much-weight-can-my-folding-table-hold

The table available at Costco for $50 is rated at 2,000 lbs, and according to the blog above, that is conservative.

Am I missing something? Why go to the trouble of building a framework to place on sawhorses rather than just use one of these ubiquitous plastic tables?

[John Lankers]

Ken, you're a keeper :)

[Ben Rivel]

Thats crazy, had no idea those tables were rated for so much weight. How are you thinking youll keep the sacrificial board from sliding off the table? Those tables are very slick.

[David Super]

I've never felt comfortable breaking down sheet goods from a table unless it was really sturdy and big enough to support a 4' x 8' piece. My garage floor is flat and very smooth. I also am lucky to have nearly 70 year-old knees that still flex without too much complaint. So my solution: a 4' x 8' sheet of 2-inch polystyrene insulation (the light but pretty dense yellow stuff from our local lumberyard).

I place it on the floor, put the sheet goods on top and then go about my business with various-sized clamping saw guides that I bought many years ago at a woodworking show. I've cut everything from 3/4-inch OSB and plywood to 1/8-inch hardboard with reasonable accuracy. Nothing can fall from a table. Nothing jiggles.

Eventually, the foam will have too many cuts to maintain its integrity. Replacement sheets in various thicknesses are available from the nearby yard. When the saw is quiet, I can sit on the foam surface and rest or contemplate my next maneuver. Might even work for a short nap, although that tactic could spook my wife, should she peer into the garage and wonder why everything is so quiet.

[Andrew Hughes]

One reason is it's not flat.My assembly table that i set up for glueing up table tops is very flat.I also use it for breaking down plywood for the occasional sheet goods job.
All good cuts and builds benefit from good reference surfaces.

Aj

[Victor Robinson]

Look up the Paulk workbench if you haven't already. If you're deadset on using the table for a base instead of his simple sawhorses it would be easy to adapt.

[Eric Schmid]

You don't need to support the entire sheet, just three straight support boards of equal height/thickness; one on each end and one at the cut line. For a work surface I generally use two 9" wide torsion beams set on saw horses. I have a 16' and a 10' long bench in the shop, but find the torsion beams more useful than a large flat surface in most cases. Mobile, more clamping options, easy storage, adjustable height, etc.

The Costco table is probably dining table height so it might be a little low for some tasks.

[Frank Pratt]

I have a couple of those tables & use them all the time in the shop. They are strong, light, stable, cheap, & best of all for me is that they fold up thin for easy storage. They don't stand up well to a circ saw though :(

[mark mcfarlane]

Big and flat is nice, but depending on exactly what you are building and your tolerance for imperfection, the Costco table might be adequate. I suspect the Costco table has a thin plastic top with metal immediately underneath for the legs and hinge, which won't be very friendly to saw blades, so you may want to throw something over the table before cutting, like a sheet (or strips) of MDF.

Check out one of the tables and see how flat they really are when open. If it is badly crowned there might be no recovery, but then again, if you are just cutting up some cheap plywood to make shelves in a garage and don't mind small errors, it will probably work fine.

[Rich Riddle]

I have those table for the summer events we host. They are less than flat and bow in the middle. They can hold weight though.

[glenn bradley]

I still have an unused set of folding legs I bought to make a sheet goods cutting table. Turned out I didn't do it enough to warrant the space to store the table. I have a habit of being so fixated on the solution I miss the value of the solution versus the space I will have to give up for it. In this case I saw the big picture just bought some foam insulation and cut things on the floor. The value to you and your decision may be different. If you are going to work with sheet goods that much, I would build a decent reliable surface for doing that.

[Jon Endres]

I have a cutting grid that is about 3' x 6' that sets up on a pair of folding sawhorses. I've had it for years and it's held up fine. It only weighs maybe 10 lb and I hang it on the wall when it's not being used.

I like Glenn's idea of the folding table legs. Would save me from having to set up sawhorses every time. Plus I could put a sheet of plywood or melamine on it and use it as a temporary table. I think something like that would stay set up more than it wouldn't.

[Bryan Lisowski]

I use 2 pieces of 1 1/2" ridgid foam on top of saw horses. Works well for me.

[Prashun Patel]

Due respect to the other posters, I think the sag is not an issue. I used such a table for breakdown myself. And it was particleboard and twice as heavy.

I think this is a fantastic use for these tables with this modification:

Screw sacrificial 2x3's to the top (screw them from the underside) running lengthwise. This will prevent you from cutting into the table which can weaken it or cause you to hit the metal supports.

This will also has the benefit of reducing the sag.

personally, I think you can even use such a surface for precision work - not just breakdown. The precision comes from good alignment between your track or guide and the cut line on the plywood. If the rest sags a little it's ok. If you are routing grooves it's a different issue, but on through cuts, you can do an awful lot with this set up.

[Mike Goetzke]

Search "eurekazone multiform table" . Years ago I made a version of this and it works great for sheet goods.

Mike

[Erik Loza]

One reason is it's not flat...

This ^^^^....

Also, it's just not heavy enough. We have one of these for picnics and whatnot and I can pretty easily bump it out of the way when just walking by. Just my thoughts.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

Even if these tables are sturdy enough...the downside remains having to lift the full sheets of material up onto the surface, something that many of us struggle with. (Even with my sliding table saw, I have had to work out a system to lift full sheets up because of strength required of my body) The true benefit of a track saw, regardless of brand, is that you can take the saw to the material. So for me, I'd opt for keeping a few pieces of foam insulation material around and just break things down on the floor. It doesn't have to be "perfectly flat"...the track will bend up and down a little to compensate while you saw along the line. And it's far easier to plop a sheet down onto "the floor" than it is to lift up on a table. That said, having a table like that...as long as it's sturdy and doesn't wiggle...would be handy for cutting smaller components out of partial sheets without bending down or working on your knees...

[richard poitras]

Search "eurekazone multiform table" . Years ago I made a version of this and it works great for sheet goods.

Mike

I use this set up as well... they work great.

[Erik Christensen]

I suggest the best breakdown table is 4x8 and at about the same height as your delivery vehicle - in my case a pickup truck bed. I cover the 3/4 plywood top with a 1" foam sheet as a sacrificial surface - it lasts for a year or so and then I trash it and get another. I have broken down 100's of 4x8 sheets solo with this setup and it has worked for me.

[Keith Hankins]

I use a 2" piece of 4x8 insulation on the floor for my breakdown and use my festool track saw. I keep the sheet up against the wall and just lay it on the floor and its really light. I use my gorilla gripper to move sheets around since my two boys have grown and gone so i'm horsing it around myself. I simply put that ply on top and cut it up. Don't need to horse it up on a table.

I've had my sheet for 6 years best cheap table i ever got.

[Ben Rivel]

I use a 2" piece of 4x8 insulation on the floor for my breakdown and use my festool track saw. I keep the sheet up against the wall and just lay it on the floor and its really light. I use my gorilla gripper to move sheets around since my two boys have grown and gone so i'm horsing it around myself. I simply put that ply on top and cut it up. Don't need to horse it up on a table.

I've had my sheet for 6 years best cheap table i ever got.
This IMO is the best cheap way to do it!

[Jim Dwight]

I've used a lattice of 1x4s set on edge for years. I put it over sawhorses or the trailer I bring the sheet goods home with and have used it on top of my Paulk workbench but it's a bit high. So I made a lattice of 1x2s laid flat for the workbench. My first lattice is 3x7 but my workbench and second lattice is 3x6. I like having the sheet hang off so I can clamp the track easily. I think you will want a Paulk style worksurface at some point - or a MFT. If you don't want to make that investment soon, the lattice of 1x4s can have a set of folding metal legs and be a great way to cut up sheet goods. I've seen a you tube of a guy doing this. He has a bad back but just slides the sheets from his truck bed to the cutup table and never has to lift the sheet. My technique is to carry the sheets on my side clamped up against me and then I tilt them up against the workbench. It's heavy enough to stay put. I then lift the bottom up to the height of the workbench and slide it over onto the bench. I can pick up full sheets but try to lift one end at a time as much as possible.

My wife wants a pickup and we'll probably get one sometime. It could help my sheet goods carrying because I could back it to the shop garage and slide sheets from the bed to the workbench. The trailer is too low and hard to back to do this.

[Stew Hagerty]

I've used the on-the-floor method for several years. 1, I got tired of getting up & down all the time. 2, I wanted something that I could use for other things. But I still didn't want to take up much space, and it couldn't be anything heavy or awkward to move around since I work by myself. I was going to make myself some folding sawhorses and use 2x's to make an open platform. Then I saw these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/TOUGHBUILT-5-51-in-Adjustable-Folding-Sawhorse-TB-C700/205870356 I really like their versatility, sturdiness, and size (both open & closed). It works great! It can be set low enough to be just about perfect for track saw work or raised for use as an assemble table. Oh yeah, and they work pretty well as sawhorses too. I'm never going back to the floor.

Oh... One more thing, I am going to be adding a shortened (or shop-made) "LegUp" to one of the crosspieces for super easy loading of sheetgoods.

[Mike Heidrick]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hughes http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2584374#post2584374) One reason is it's not flat...


This ^^^^....

Also, it's just not heavy enough. We have one of these for picnics and whatnot and I can pretty easily bump it out of the way when just walking by. Just my thoughts.

Erik

For just breaking down ply....

Tthe reference surface of breaking down ply with a tracksaw or circ saw is the top surface of the ply, not the bottom. You could lean that ply 45 degrees and if the track is flat on the top of the ply, or the circ saw guide is flat on the top of the ply, that saw will cut as square as the shoe is perpendicular to the blade. I can see the flat table being an issue if it is used as a reference surface for things like assembly. Is that what you guys are commenting about being an issue?

[Wade Lippman]

I bought one of these. Never had an opportunity to use it yet, but it looks good.
Of course, I got it for $60...

https://www.amazon.com/Centipede-Compact-Portable-Support-sawhorse/dp/B00T81P4D0



(https://www.amazon.com/Centipede-Compact-Portable-Support-sawhorse/dp/B00T81P4D0)

[Terry Therneau]

I have a homemade table for breaking down goods: 2 long 2-4's and 5 cross bars, appox 7' by 3.5', along with a pair of exactly that kind of legs from the local big box store; even cheaper than buying a table. The 2x4s are on edge, and all screws are 1" away from the top. It works great; i'd never go back to the floor. My trailer is the back half of an old pickup and this is about 3" shorter; just slide the goods onto it and cut. I set the tracksaw 1/8" inch deeper than the sheet goods and hardly notice when it goes across a support. I've had it for 10 years and perhaps in another 20 it will have enough cuts in the top to need a rebuild. It's light, folds up. and sits in the plywood rack along with the ply.

Terry T

[Pete Janke]

I have a couple of those tables & use them all the time in the shop. They are strong, light, stable, cheap, & best of all for me is that they fold up thin for easy storage. They don't stand up well to a circ saw though :(

My wife had one she was using for scrapbooking. I messed it up so bad, it is now my table, and she bought a new one. The height allows me to sit down and work very comfortably on a project. Multiple uses: light assembly, cutting down sheet goods, painting and finishing projects. Like Frank said, it folds up and stores well. Even if you drill through the top, cut a nice gouge with your circ saw or multi tool, or drill through it, it won't fall apart. It is not a substitute for your work bench; you don't hammer on it, and tilting a sheet of plywood onto it may tip it over. Or so I'm told. :rolleyes:

[Charles Lent]

I also made one like Terry many years ago. The one in the pictures is my old table of about 20 years ago. Now that I'm older and less able to carry heavy things (metal knees and heart surgery) , I made a new version using 1 X 4 for the perimeter boards to make it lighter, but still very strong (no pictures of this one-but it looks the same except for the 1 X 4 perimeter boards). All of my sheet stock is broken up outside my shop on one of these tables. My shop is too small to do it inside.

On one side of the table (shown in the pictures) I have added two squares of plywood with a screw off center through them and into the table side. Turned one way, they are below the table surface. Turned 180 deg, they extend above the table. To load a sheet, I tip the table on it's side with these plywood pieces down against the driveway, lean the sheet against the table and on these pieces of plywood. Then I bend over and tip the sheet and table back up on it's legs, turn these pieces of plywood 180 deg to drop them below the table surface, and re-position the sheet for cutting. Using a table like this prevents cut pieces from falling as you cut them free. The table sets up and folds easily. I store it leaning against my plywood sheets in my shop.

340859340860340861340858

You can get the legs from Northern or Harbor Freight for about $20. The table itself is assembled with glue and biscuits, so the only metal in the wood top are the leg attachment screws and the two screws holding the plywood pieces on the one side. All are more than 1" below the top surface, so there is very little chance of ever cutting into them with your saw blade.

My cutting table has doubled as a picnic table on two occasions. I just set it up with a full sheet of plywood and a table cloth on it. It handles the buffet food collection very well, letting my real picnic table and banquet tables serve as the eating places.

Charley

[Jim Dwight]

I've thought about it some more and I think a plastic table with a partial sheet of foam on top would be a good cut up worksurface for a track saw. I don't really have room for a limited purpose tool like this so I do it differently but if you have the space, or you need something before getting or building a worksurface that can do more than support wood while you cut it, I think this would work well. I would glue the foam to the plastic, however.

I haven't taken my 1x4 lattice to the dump yet but that is my plan. I need to build a rolling cart for my plywood and then clean out the shop so I can push things against the walls and pull my SUV into it. That's the plan. Until the cart is built, the scraps take up too much space for me to pull the SUV in so I still have the lattice. It works great, but I actually use the workbench and with the sacrifical lattice of 1x2s it works at least as well. I can store the 1x2 lattice on the plywood rack.

A long way of saying why I am fixated on space considerations. My 14x24 shop pretty much forces that. My wife thinks it's big but.....

[mark mcfarlane]

I also made one like Terry many years ago. The one in the pictures is my old table of about 20 years ago. Now that I'm older and less able to carry heavy things (metal knees and heart surgery) , I made a new version using 1 X 4 for the perimeter boards to make it lighter, but still very strong (no pictures of this one-but it looks the same except for the 1 X 4 perimeter boards). All of my sheet stock is broken up outside my shop on one of these tables. My shop is too small to do it inside.

On one side of the table (shown in the pictures) I have added two squares of plywood with a screw off center through them and into the table side. Turned one way, they are below the table surface. Turned 180 deg, they extend above the table. To load a sheet, I tip the table on it's side with these plywood pieces down against the driveway, lean the sheet against the table and on these pieces of plywood. Then I bend over and tip the sheet and table back up on it's legs, turn these pieces of plywood 180 deg to drop them below the table surface, and re-position the sheet for cutting. Using a table like this prevents cut pieces from falling as you cut them free. The table sets up and folds easily. I store it leaning against my plywood sheets in my shop.

340859340860340861340858

You can get the legs from Northern or Harbor Freight for about $20. The table itself is assembled with glue and biscuits, so the only metal in the wood top are the leg attachment screws and the two screws holding the plywood pieces on the one side. All are more than 1" below the top surface, so there is very little chance of ever cutting into them with your saw blade.

My cutting table has doubled as a picnic table on two occasions. I just set it up with a full sheet of plywood and a table cloth on it. It handles the buffet food collection very well, letting my real picnic table and banquet tables serve as the eating places.

Charley

Thanks Charley for sharing your setup and workflow. Nice tip on the flip-down lips that hold the plywood during your 'tilt-up' operation. This seems like a very practical and inexpensive solution which I shall shamelessly borrow to bootstrap building out my permanent shop tables.

[Charles Lent]

You are very welcome Mark. I find that I use this table more often than I do my saw horses. It even goes to jobs with me. A piece of plywood on it and my miter saw on top is a frequent use of it. Don't make it 4 X 8'. About 70" long and 26" wide is more than large enough for 4 X 8' sheets. Just move the sheets around so the off cuts won't fall when cut free and don't worry about making 1/4-1/2" kerfs in the top of the cutting table. They add character, and the table will last through many years of cutting. If it ever gets too ugly, just make another and move the legs to the new one. I knew a house carpenter who spent the whole first day on every house job building a pair of saw horses. When he finished the house, what was left of the saw horses became the property of the house owner.

Charley

[Jon Endres]

Don't make it 4 X 8'. About 70" long and 26" wide is more than large enough for 4 X 8' sheets.

If you make it that size, a 36" x 80" hollow-core lauan door slab from the big orange (or blue) box makes a perfect temporary top for it when you're not cutting. Lightweight and easy to store.

[Mark W Pugh]

I've used the on-the-floor method for several years. 1, I got tired of getting up & down all the time. 2, I wanted something that I could use for other things. But I still didn't want to take up much space, and it couldn't be anything heavy or awkward to move around since I work by myself. I was going to make myself some folding sawhorses and use 2x's to make an open platform. Then I saw these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/TOUGHBUILT-5-51-in-Adjustable-Folding-Sawhorse-TB-C700/205870356 I really like their versatility, sturdiness, and size (both open & closed). It works great! It can be set low enough to be just about perfect for track saw work or raised for use as an assemble table. Oh yeah, and they work pretty well as sawhorses too. I'm never going back to the floor.

Oh... One more thing, I am going to be adding a shortened (or shop-made) "LegUp" to one of the crosspieces for super easy loading of sheetgoods.

Just went out and bought a couple of these. They are really nice, and just what I needed. Thanks for the tip.

[Ronald Mancini]

I put a saw horses about 6 inches behind my truck and another about 5 feet behind the truck. Then I put a couple of 2x4s on the horses. Then I slide the sheet goods onto the 2x4s and using a track saw I make my cut. Simple, fast, and safe.

[Stew Hagerty]

Just went out and bought a couple of these. They are really nice, and just what I needed. Thanks for the tip.

Glad I could help. I am really happy with mine. They're sure versatile.

[Brian W Smith]

Very interesting,I usually read all responses,from a general,add to standpoint.

But didn't here.Breaking down plywood sheets is all about vert panel saws.Everything else is a bloomin waste of time and space.

Don't even suggest money....It has to be one of the ALL-TIME easiest builds.To the point that,if you can't figure it out,you really should reconsider WWing as a hobby.Sheesh

[Larry Frank]

I have been using a set of saw horses that are about 18" tall and 4 feet wide. I have notches cut so I can set 8 ft 2x4 edge wise. It works for me. I can not get down on my knees easily.

I think that some would welcome seeing an easy to build very solution.

[Jim Dwight]

If you think a sawhorse based solution might work for you I recommend you google the Shopdog sawhorse. It looks interesting. It folds up, is made out of a 2x4, and looks very sturdy. The top beam clamps in place so it could clamp a cutting lattice in place. There is a promotional youtube.

[Mark W Pugh]

Very interesting,I usually read all responses,from a general,add to standpoint.

But didn't here.Breaking down plywood sheets is all about vert panel saws.Everything else is a bloomin waste of time and space.

Don't even suggest money....It has to be one of the ALL-TIME easiest builds.To the point that,if you can't figure it out,you really should reconsider WWing as a hobby.Sheesh

That's why a lot of us HOBBYISTS ask and seek advice on here. Thanks for your input.

[Ken Cobbing]

OP here - thanks to everyone for the discussion! Many helpful comments and ideas here. You've given me lots to think about.


Ken, you're a keeper :)

I don't know if this is tongue in cheek or not :o I realize I've asked some very basic questions since I've joined, and appreciate the patience and help here.

---

The Paulk workbench is my #1 choice for a work surface. The problem is storage. I do not have a garage - only a carport to work in. I also have a small shed for outdoor equipment, but it will not fit a 4 x 8 sheet inside (let alone a panel saw, lol). With all this in mind, the plastic folding table seemed like a possible solution.

Several posters have mentioned the issue of the plastic table not being perfectly flat. I didn't think about this before buying the table. Indeed, the table is not flat. Surprisingly, the table peaks slightly in the middle rather than bows.

Anyway, after posting the OP I set up the table with some plywood on top (for a flatter surface) and rigid foam on top of that. Then I used my router on a track to cut some grooves in ~7' long panels.


personally, I think you can even use such a surface for precision work - not just breakdown. The precision comes from good alignment between your track or guide and the cut line on the plywood. If the rest sags a little it's ok. If you are routing grooves it's a different issue, but on through cuts, you can do an awful lot with this set up.

Unfortunately I routed grooves before I read your post. Can you explain to me why a slightly non-flat work surface would cause problems with routing grooves? I haven't noticed any problems with the panels I worked on.

---

After using the plastic table for a single day of work, the verdict is that it seemed to work well for my purposes. With that in mind, I'm trying to justify keeping the pair of really nice DeWalt sawhorses I scored for about $30 each:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004U4S7UC (https://www.amazon.com//dp/B004U4S7UC)

Intuitively, it seems like this pair of sawhorses should be a much more robust solution compared to the folding table. But it turns out that the plastic table holds the same amount of weight (2,000 lbs), takes up even less storage space, is even easier to set up / take down, and does not require building/storing a lattice framework. It does seem hokey to use a plastic table instead of sawhorses, but so far I'm unable to find a rational reason why the sawhorses are a better fit for the job. But I need a pair of sawhorses for something, don't I??? :D

[Bruce Wrenn]

I also made one like Terry many years ago. The one in the pictures is my old table of about 20 years ago. Now that I'm older and less able to carry heavy things (metal knees and heart surgery) , I made a new version using 1 X 4 for the perimeter boards to make it lighter, but still very strong (no pictures of this one-but it looks the same except for the 1 X 4 perimeter boards). All of my sheet stock is broken up outside my shop on one of these tables. My shop is too small to do it inside.

On one side of the table (shown in the pictures) I have added two squares of plywood with a screw off center through them and into the table side. Turned one way, they are below the table surface. Turned 180 deg, they extend above the table. To load a sheet, I tip the table on it's side with these plywood pieces down against the driveway, lean the sheet against the table and on these pieces of plywood. Then I bend over and tip the sheet and table back up on it's legs, turn these pieces of plywood 180 deg to drop them below the table surface, and re-position the sheet for cutting. Using a table like this prevents cut pieces from falling as you cut them free. The table sets up and folds easily. I store it leaning against my plywood sheets in my shop.

340859340860340861340858

You can get the legs from Northern or Harbor Freight for about $20. The table itself is assembled with glue and biscuits, so the only metal in the wood top are the leg attachment screws and the two screws holding the plywood pieces on the one side. All are more than 1" below the top surface, so there is very little chance of ever cutting into them with your saw blade.

My cutting table has doubled as a picnic table on two occasions. I just set it up with a full sheet of plywood and a table cloth on it. It handles the buffet food collection very well, letting my real picnic table and banquet tables serve as the eating places.

CharleySame style table (originally published in FWW Aug 2000,) is what I use. My side rails are 3/4 ply. The legs come off old tables found in the dumpsters near house. Don't have picture, but on one side rail, I have two folding cleats. Turn table on side, with cleats folded out. Rest sheet goods on cleats, and then turn whole assembly up right. I'm on my fourth or fifth top.

[Prashun Patel]

If you are using a jig that causes your router base to ride on a platform, and if that platform does not register flat on your workpiece because your table is not flat, then there can be little gaps that cause the depth of the cut to vary.

[David Gutierrez]

if it works for go for it. I would think load capacity is a non issue for your use. The potential issue with routing grooves on a curved surface is getting a constant depth. Imagine a flat base cutting on a curved surface depth of cut could vary.

[Ken Cobbing]

Thanks for the explanation, Prashun and David. When I was cutting the grooves, the router was riding on a track saw track with a router adapter attached. It appeared to me that the track was flat against the workpiece, but it is possible that it was not perfectly so. We'll see how well the sliding doors ride in the grooves once this piece is assembled.