Switching Paint Brands; Firing Behr...Which Brand do You Use?

[Rich Riddle]

So the Behr Ultra just isn't cutting it. The stuff starts drying in the pan. While painting a three foot wide hallway, I accidentally bumped into the back of the other end just painted about eight minutes earlier. It had already dried to the touch. While some may like this feature, it makes painting "wet to wet" nearly impossible. Fixing "oops" moments also becomes impossible. So which brand of paints do you folks use?

[Greg R Bradley]

I don't know that it is the BRAND that is the problem and assume each brand has their good and bad products. I'm not a paint expert but have been completely impressed by Sherwin Williams Emerald Paint that is $62 per gallon at conrtactor price, supposedly $102 per gallon retail (?). When you consider the labor involved, was totally worth the price.

[Neil Gaskin]

Benjamin Moore. I like: Ultra Spec for most interior walls. Advance Enamel for interior trim. We use Regal Select for exteriors and some times for interiors. Just don't use their bottom of the line.

[Rich Riddle]

Greg, you are correct about the BRAND in many cases. But with this Behr, I went to the top of the line except for the Marquee line. I am thinking Behr paint just markets to the lower line like Yugo marketed less expensive cars. As time goes by in life, my time gets more valuable. So a more expensive paint that saves time seems just fine.

[Brian W Smith]

S/W...and BM covers 90% plus of the higher end builds here.

I kinda like "real" paint stores.Get to talk to all the old guys(I are one) who have worked on our projects.Standing back to let the younger,caffeined up contractors all hustling in chasing money.

With a mighty few exceptions,don't buy paint at box stores,gives me the creeps just thinking about it....sheeesh.

[Wayne Lomman]

I don't go by the brand. There are good and bad in all of them. However I never mix brands on the one job. That is just asking for trouble and no-one will give you product support advice. Cheers

[roger wiegand]

BM and SW here, the higher end paints at either seem to be quite good. I tend to prefer the less expensive Regal to the Aura at BM; their "contractor grade" paint is much worse than Behr. You may not find joy in switching brands given the issues you're having. The new low VOC paint formulations dry much faster. The pros I've watched here in recent times have abandoned attempting to maintain a wet-to-wet continuity; what I see them do and what my BM dealer now recommends is to cut in the whole room prior to painting the walls. I've been doing this on recent jobs with the BM Aura paint and the cut in is visible on the first coat (mostly a sheen difference), but barely if at all on the second.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I painted Behr pure white over trim that was antique white. It took two coats! Two coats to cover a lighter white over a darker white. I used some Sherwin Williams purple over white primer and it covered in one coat.

[Tom M King]

SW Emerald. Catch it on sale. Behr Markee is okay, but takes extra coats.

[Prashun Patel]

Thanks for the tip on SW Emerald guys. I have been using Benjamin Moore Aura with good success - especially for dark colors in rooms with a lot of light.

[Mel Fulks]

My house was recently painted with Emerald. The painter reccomended it, toward the end he bought a gallon of SW Duration. I have forgotten why. But he then raved about how much better it brushed on! I have no problem with the job, but having read all the SW paint descriptions I saw little info on the differences between the two products or why Emerald costs 30$ more. Looked on can ,SW site, and painting forums.

[Adam Herman]

all i use for everything is s/w and only go to lowes in a pinch for it. Usually go to the real paint store. There are always lots of coupons available if you sign up for their emails.

[Jim Becker]

Sherwin Williams (ProClassic acrylic and Emerald) and Benjamin Moore (Aura and Advance). The only thing I use Behr for is our honeybee homes...

[Prashun Patel]

Jim, why? Because behrs like honey? Don't pooh pooh my joke, Winnie.

[Greg R Bradley]

My house was recently painted with Emerald. The painter reccomended it, toward the end he bought a gallon of SW Duration. I have forgotten why. But he then raved about how much better it brushed on! I have no problem with the job, but having read all the SW paint descriptions I saw little info on the differences between the two products or why Emerald costs 30$ more. Looked on can ,SW site, and painting forums.


Probably more info than you want: http://www.jackpauhl.com/sherwin-williams-emerald-review/#more-9577

You can also see why it worked very well painting older commercial interiors that had lots of different surfaces, some oil based, and lots of grease and chemical contamination combined with new drywall & texture. The fact that it was durable quickly was incredibly important when you are remodeling in-place while trying to run a business.

[Mel Fulks]

Thanks, Greg. That is useful. I neglected to note that painting was exterior. Still surprised that with such a price difference that SW doesn't give more detail.

[Tom M King]

My house was recently painted with Emerald. The painter reccomended it, toward the end he bought a gallon of SW Duration. I have forgotten why. But he then raved about how much better it brushed on! I have no problem with the job, but having read all the SW paint descriptions I saw little info on the differences between the two products or why Emerald costs 30$ more. Looked on can ,SW site, and painting forums.

Duration was their top of the line paint before they came out with Emerald. Duration is thinner. To me, Duration took more coats. We have airless sprayed both, and brushed both. Both make a hard, durable coating that takes pressure washing (wide nozzle of course) in stride when the house needs cleaning.

The 1828 house on my website was painted with Duration in 2007, and still looks new today after we pressure wash it. It has held up remarkably well. I believe I put three coats on it, mostly with an airless sprayer.

I've been using Emerald since they came out with it. I especially like it for sash because I can do one coat and it's done. It's really hard to do a perfect job on divided light sash with two or three coats. The Emerald also sprays just fine.

On the current house we're working on, the owner read that Behr Markee was more mildew resistant than Emerald, and wanted us to use that. We did, but it took three coats of the white to get the bluish tint out of it. It seems to me that it's the same way Duration was when we used it. I put my foot down on the sash painting though, and told the owner that I really wanted to only use Emerald on the sash.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Jim, why? Because behrs like honey? Don't pooh pooh my joke, Winnie.

That's sad! And from an adult....:eek:

This is Ken in Idaho....looking down....shaking his head....;)

[Rick Moyer]

Jim, why? Because behrs like honey? Don't pooh pooh my joke, Winnie.
Thumbs up to Prashun!

[Mel Fulks]

Ken, maybe Mr Outen will edit it ....then it won't make ANY sense.

[Mel Fulks]

Tom, thanks for the details of experience .

[Rich Riddle]

I went to the Home Depot and purchased some Flood Floetral additive to slow the drying process. Using the instructions, it mixed well and certainly did slow the process of drying, but not super slow. Caught a few glitches this way and fixed them. The only bad spot on the pain happened when removing the tape. A bit of the latex peeled off. Of all places for this to happen, it was the best place. The wall is 3' wide at that point and has a 30" door under it. I will literally have to fix a spot 1' x 3' if I repaint the entire area. Good fortune in that regard. The paint certainly looks nice after the last coat, but that's likely due to hours of good preparation and not slopping on one final coat with the Floetral additive. I already use Benjamin Moore ceiling paint for ceilings and am looking at using Sherwin Williams for a red accent wall. Heck, if we are going to have a mutt with paint, try them all.

[Jim Becker]

Jim, why? Because behrs like honey? Don't pooh pooh my joke, Winnie.
Oh, my.... :D :D :D

[Mike Null]

I use SW for everything. They are reliable and their people know what they're doing.

[Chris Padilla]

We use whatever color my wife falls in love with for the particular application. We've used:

Behr: available at Home Depot so close, works great, ~$25/gal
Ralph Lauren: available at Home Depot (no longer), works fine
Martha Stewart: available at Home Depot (seeing a trend?), horrible, horrible paint to deal with...used once...only once...
Benjamin Moore: NOT available at Home Depot but is at the local, chain hardware store, $$$$$s, works great (Aura)
Glidden: available at Home Depot, works fine but usually just use their primer in 5-gal buckets, cheap, seems fine
Dutch Boy: used to be at the local, chain hardware store, works fine, bonus: gallon can is 100% plastic and a cube...love that...no more rusted lids
Kelly Moore: a store is near us and since the house exterior was painted with this, we have purchased this. $$$s but it works well, is often on sale for a niceR price

For the cheaper (i.e. available at Home Depot/Lowes) paints, I recommend adding Floetrol to the paint. It'll extend the wet edge and it'll paint more like the pricier SW and BM paints which do not require such additives. I also feel that Floetrol makes spraying go a lot better, smoother. I think you might be surprised how much nice the paint is to work with. It is around $8/bottle. It is available for oil and water based paints.

Sherwin Williams: I've TRIED to get my wife to pick some here but so far, she hasn't found colors she likes

[Chris Padilla]

The only bad spot on the pain happened when removing the tape. A bit of the latex peeled off

There are a couple tricks with taping: use Frog tape OR paint over the tape into the area needing the crisp line with some flat, clear paint/shellac/etc. This will seal the edge of the paint and then your topcoat ought to pull off crisply. I did that trick until Frog tape came out and now I just use that.


The paint certainly looks nice after the last coat, but that's likely due to hours of good preparation and not slopping on one final coat with the Floetral additive.

80% of paint looking good is the prep but I've always found Floetrol to help immensely.

[Rich Riddle]

Chris,

I used the yellow Frog tape; supposedly it's for delicate surfaces. It's adhesion was far more difficult to remove than the green Frog tape.
There are a couple tricks with taping: use Frog tape OR paint over the tape into the area needing the crisp line with some flat, clear paint/shellac/etc. This will seal the edge of the paint and then your topcoat ought to pull off crisply. I did that trick until Frog tape came out and now I just use that.



80% of paint looking good is the prep but I've always found Floetrol to help immensely.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Prep is everything.

Marquee from HD covers well with one coat but should be applied liberally to make the sheen even.
When color is important, I always buy the premium stuff. Better Paint = Fewer coats = less labor and fewer chingaderras.

[Chris Padilla]

I've only used the green Frog tape, Rich, but it has worked very nicely for us.

As to one coat coverage, maybe the pros can do it but I don't think I've EVER not needed to apply a second coat because, daggone it, there are a few spots I missed there even though I was being careful and thorough. So I do two coats whether needed or not. Wifey feels the same when she paints.

[Jim Becker]

Sherwin Williams: I've TRIED to get my wife to pick some here but so far, she hasn't found colors she likes

You can take a color sheet from ANY source to an SW or BM paint store and they can make that color up for you no problem...you're not limited to the chips on the wall. ;)

[Jason Roehl]

A few notes from a former pro painter (me):

1. There are good and bad product lines in every brand, but for the most part, you get what you pay for.
2. "One coat coverage" is nonsense. When you think you have a wall covered in one coat, repaint half of it, and you'll readily see the improvement.
3. "Paint and primer in one" is also nonsense. Most interior repainting doesn't require priming. If you do need a primer because of an unsound surface or a radical color change, use a primer made for the task. Primers are often cheaper per gallon, so one coat primer and two finish coats is often cheaper than three finish coats and will give a better result.
4. Get paint from a dedicated paint store. They do have newbies there and they are salesmen, but they mix more paint in a day than your local big box store does in a month, and you are more likely to deal with someone who has some actual knowledge, especially the store manager or assistant manager.
5. Prep, prep, prep. Scrape, patch, sand, clean, prime, whatever it takes. Even if the walls are in great shape, run over all the walls you're painting with a Radius sander (https://www.amazon.com/Full-Circle-International-R360-Interchangeable/dp/B000WQL5CO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468673980&sr=8-1&keywords=radius+sander) loaded with 150 grit paper.

As for specific products, I've only used the Sherwin Emerald once. I wasn't impressed for the price (I got a free gallon, then contractor's discount on the second). I am a big fan of the Cashmere, as I like how it flows and covers. Duration Home (interior, not to be confused with Duration, which is the exterior line) is perhaps slightly better than Cashmere, but I don't think the extra price makes it worthwhile.

When it comes to sheen, there are some significant performance differences. Flat paints will look great until they're touched. They scuff easily, but also can be touched up more easily. Darker colors will often look chalky. Don't put it in a kitchen or bathroom. Satin will give a little more sheen, and some washability, but in my opinion, they burnish too easily, showing fingerprints and the like. Eggshell or Low Lustre often covers a fair range of sheen, with some almost looking like semi-gloss, but to me, it's often a good compromise between the glare from a semi-gloss and the burnishing of a satin. Semi-gloss is for trim. Don't put it on walls. It's hideous. If your walls are rough, less sheen is better as the imperfections won't be as noticeable. Semi-gloss and gloss will show everything, including bad brush, roller or spray technique. Some manufacturers will flip-flop satin and eggshell in their sheen progression. What I listed is roughly what S-W and PPG/Glidden do, the two main suppliers local to me.

[Ole Anderson]

I am bucking the tend and sticking with Behr. Always at or near the top of Consumers reports test ratings and I never had a problem with coverage and it goes on like warm butter. I watch others (non-pro) paint and I often see them brushing and rolling like they are trying to squeeze the last drop out of the brush or roller. No wonder they need more than one coat. I load the brush or roller to the point it almost drips off and roll nearly to the point it will run on the wall. I recently painted my dark blue mudroom with Behr premium in an off-white and nearly got it in one coat. I can't see paying twice the price for paint that has a better name, but to me no other advantages. Cabinets? Yes, there I will go with SW ProClassic as it self levels and I am not buying gallon after gallon. To each his own. I understand why a pro will stick with his favorite brand and deal with a pro at the paint counter where they are on a first name basis where they have an account, and get the pro discount.

[Brian Elfert]

I think Consumer Reports does a pretty good job on rating paint. I was using a Valspar interior paint recommended by Consumer Reports, but Mills Fleet Farm here quit selling it. I checked Consumer Reports when I needed paint for my current house in 2014 and Behr was their top rated paint. I would never have purchased Behr otherwise, but I used Behr and it worked great. The walls in the foreclosure I bought were so bad I sprayed Kilz on all the walls before I rolled on the Behr paint. The Behr paint covered quite nicely in a single coat. It might look a little nicer with a second coat, but I didn't want to delay moving in for another week to do a second coat, plus I was sick of working on the house after two months of non-stop work. There was no trim, doors, or flooring so painting was easy.

I have been using SW for exterior paint. I used the Duration coating for the Smartside on my garage and it went on quite nicely. I rolled the pieces of siding before installing them to make it easier. I can't tell you how long it will last as it hasn't even been a year yet.

[Brian Elfert]

I would never want to paint the interior of my house ever again if I had to do two coats every time. My previous house it took me over a month to paint just one coat on the first floor because there were eleven windows and five doors to paint around. It takes me absolutely forever to cut in the edges and I hate it! I couldn't imagine doing it twice each time I painted a room.

[Tom M King]

Tomorrow is the last day on the current 40% off at Sherwin-Williams. I think it's two or three months between 40% off sales.

I use exterior paint in bathrooms, and the inside of single pane sash (as well as the outside of course). I need to get some, so I'm glad I just saw that TV commercial.