Considering a jointer

[Johanna Johanson]

After viewing Chris Schwartz's videos, I am seriously considering adding a jointer plane (I have two jack planes and several smothers). However, I am concerned about the size and weight of a jointer. I am small (5'2") and getting rather old, so I'm not as strong as I used to be.

My choices are the LN and the Veritas. I am leaning toward the Veritas BU.

I would appreciate comments and insights.

Johanna

[Luke Dupont]

You could consider a wooden jointer!

[John Vernier]

I've been surprised by how much I use a #6 plane for jointing, since I unexpectedly found an old one at a price I couldn't walk away from. It's lighter and more dextrous than a #7, but serves very well for most furniture-scale jointing work. Mine is an old Stanley so I can't comment on the LV vs L-N question.

I have also used wooden jointers and I agree they are another good option, but wooden planes are a different adventure.

[glenn bradley]

Love my LV BU jointer. Not real heavy. A wooden jointer would probably be lighter weight. I like a little heft.

[Jim Koepke]

I would appreciate comments and insights.

How about a question?

How long will the stock you are working be?

Like John, it surprises me how often my #6 gets used for jointing. Mostly it is used for pieces of 3' of less.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

In addition to a 607, I have a #6 Bailey and a 5 1/2 Bailey. I can joint with either of the Baileys.

[steven c newman]

Jointers? Any particular size?
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L-R: Stanley #5c,T-6 Stanley #5-1/2, T-17 Stanley #6c, T-10 Stanley #7c T-9 Stanley #7c, T-9 Ohio Tool Co. # 0-7, T-3 ( When a LONG time without a #7, all of a sudden, I have three of them) Love My #7s, though.. The #6 and the #5-1/2 kind of trade off a bit, one job might see just one, or the other. The #5c has a cambered iron, not much for jointing.

All depends on how tired the arms are, which size gets used.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Johanna,

The thing you will read about the BU planes, is that because of the lower angel of attack, the BU planes are a little more prone to tear out on wild grain. They are a bit lighter than the BD jointers, however. The BU jointers, however, are better on end grain, so are ideal for shooting boards.

I do have to add to be fair, however, that I do not have a BU jointer, only block planes that are BU. I do love my block planes, however, and use them quite a bit.

Stew

[Matthew Hills]

A vintage jointer will be a more moderate weight than an LN/LV.
I think my #7 is lighter than my LV bevel-up jack, and jointing isn't as much exertion as the initial roughing I do with a cambered #5.
How are your current planes for weight?

Matt

[Paul Sidener]

I will stay away from the Lie Nielsen vs. Veritas argument. They are both good companies, that make quality tools, you can't go wrong with either. Both companies offer bevel up and bevel down jointer planes. Me personally I prefer bevel down planes. My jointer is a Lie Nielsen #7. I do own planes from both companies.

I wouldn't worry too much about weight. If your plane iron is sharp and the plane is waxed, it isn't difficult to push. You don't really take a real aggressive cut with a jointer. That being said, you will save about one pound going to a bevel up plane, which isn't a lot of weight. The planes from both companies weigh about the same.

It comes down to the work that you do. If you are worried about the angle of attack of the plane iron, don't. You can get a second iron and change the angle of the bevel to get a higher angle.

[Phil Mueller]

I haven't seen Chris's video to know what he says about the merits of a jointer, so there may be some benefits I'm not aware of. I do have the LV BU jointer. I find it is only used for long boards (more than 4' or so) which is rare, and to flatten my bench top.

Because of its side design, it's difficult if not impossible, to use for shooting. The side appears to be dedicated to attaching the fence. The fence works, but does take a bit of fiddling to get it dead square to the iron.

My go to for jointing is a LN #62. And on shorter boards, a smoother.

[Allan Speers]

I definitely suggest a woodie.

Here's a small visual comparison, with a Gordon try plane, Stanley #7 & #8, a Primus, and an old English woodie.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31826742/%20%20%20%20%20%20MY%20Jointers%20-%20fleet%20%20%20.jpg


Hands down, the one I would keep if I only could have one is the Primus. It's about the same size as the #8, but significantly lighter. It's nicely balanced, has a great blade, gives virtually no chatter, and is easy to adjust once you get the hang of it.
Also, it gives that lovely "wood on wood" feel.

Keep an eye on Ebay for a used one. They sometimes go for cheap.

-------------

Also heed Jim Koepe's post. Yo may not actually NEED something 24" long. For edge jointing long boards, then yes definitely. For anything else, maybe not.

[Warren Mickley]

I use a 22 inch beech trying plane ( 6 lb. 12 oz.) for face planing and a Record #7 (7 lb. 4 oz.) for edge jointing. The Record is heavier than I like, but since it is used for edges it is only used for a few strokes at a time so the weight doesn't matter.

Both the LV (7 lb. 8 oz.) and the LN (8 lb. 4 oz.) are heavier yet. The LN with its double iron is a better plane. If you are just going to use the plane for edge jointing, the weight does not matter so much and you could probably handle it. If you are flattening the faces of boards, you are looking at longer periods so I would consider other options.

As mentioned previously, vintage jointers are lighter and wooden planes are lighter. And the number #6 LN is 7 lb. 8 oz., a vintage #6 lighter. The slight length advantage that the #7 has over the #6 (and even the #5) will be lost if the thing wears you out. Better to take a few more minutes and be comfortable. Try at least to hold some of these planes before you commit.

[steven c newman]

I had resawn a 4 x 4 down into four planks, all will need a plane to work them over
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Knotty pine. There is now one that was surfaced S4S with a No.7c, T-9 Jointer plane, My Cardio for the evening. Both faces were roughsawn, and both edges needed planed straight and square to the faces. One down, three to go. Board is now 3/4" x 23-3/4 x 3-1/2" wide. The no.7 did not have much trouble with all the knots. I did NOT try for see-through shavings....would have taken three times as long to do the board. YMMV

I plan to try each board with a different jointer plane, to see how they compare. Of course, I will just have what I have got on hand.....

[Stewie Simpson]

Holly molly Steve; when was the last time you cleaned out your workshop.

[steven c newman]

Maybe back in April??????

Igor went on strike, and refuses to clean the Dungeon Shop......

We have Brown Recluse Spider that like to repell down to about nose level, and every now and then, we have Brown Bats going through the shop....

[Derek Cohen]

After viewing Chris Schwartz's videos, I am seriously considering adding a jointer plane (I have two jack planes and several smothers). However, I am concerned about the size and weight of a jointer. I am small (5'2") and getting rather old, so I'm not as strong as I used to be.

My choices are the LN and the Veritas. I am leaning toward the Veritas BU.

I would appreciate comments and insights.

Johanna

Hi Joanna

I see many recommendations. Only one regarding the LV BU Jointer, and the information was incorrect.

I have a couple of suggestions, but let's deal with the LV BU Jointer first. This is very fine plane, easy to set up and very well balanced with a low centre of gravity. Being a BU plane, the cutting angle can be altered as you choose, and high angle bevel (e.g. 40 degrees) will enable you to perform most tasks faultlessly on the typical US timbers. This plane should feel more controllable on edges than the average BD #7. The down sides to the plane is that it may be heavier than you like, and it does not have flat sides, which means it cannot be used to shoot edges when running on a bench top. Otherwise excellent jointer.

One of the advantages of the BU Jointer is that it can also be used with a dedicated fence for jointing ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Lee%20Valley%20Bevel%20Up%20Jointe r_html_518240b7.jpg

If you want a lighter version of this plane, plus one that can be used to shoot, then consider the LV LA Jack. It is shorter (15") than a typical jointer plane (#7 is 22"), but will be perfect for smaller work.

The other suggestion is the HNT Gordon Trying Plane. This is also shorter than the average jointer at 18". It is a woodie with a high angle bed (60 degrees) and, counter the current fashion, has a single blade (i.e. no chipbreaker). This is a light, very precise worker. Terry Gordon makes very reliable planes and they work with no fuss. The blade is 2" wide, it may be pushed (or pulled) holding the body ala Krenov planes or with the Chinese cross handle. This is my jointer of choice for narrow edges.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Articles/HNT%20Gordon/SmootherandTryingplanes.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Articles/HNT%20Gordon/Tryplane-Edgeplaning.jpg

Review: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20HNT%20Gordon%20Smoother%20and%20Trying%20Pla ne.html

Using higher cutting angles in these planes is not a negative factor - that is, will not make them harder to push - since I expect that you will be taking lighter, thinner shavings anyway.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Brent Cutshall]

Take it from me, after having used smoothers and jacks for everything, getting a jointer was one of the best things I've done. The other day I picked up a 26" wooden jointer for $28 at a flea market. At first I wanted an iron plane but I settled for a woodie and it turned out quite well, if you can get one with a nice and flat bottom I say jump on it. The weight of a wooden plane lacks and I don't have an iron one to compare it to but when I sharpened mine up, the first swipe across a board (a rough board) did what my jack and smoother could do but in one swipe. I'm not saying they'll all be that way and I'm still out for a metal jointer, but a wooden plane is a good way to go.

[steven c newman]

Then there is the best of both worlds..
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Stanley #28 and #29 try and jointer planes. the 28 is about 18, the 29 is about 20" long, Both use the same cutter width..2-3/8" . These were auction finds..$5 for the pair. Cleaned up nicely, too.

[Prashun Patel]

I am learning that planes are highly personal, ergonomic choices.

Lately I have been using a wood try plane and my Veritas bevel up jointer to flatten my workbench.

Reasons I prefer my wood try plane:

- It is lighter and less fatiguing.
- It is a bevel down configuration. With bd planes, I have learned it is possible to set the chip breaker close enough to the edge such that there is low risk of 'gouging'. There can still be very minor tearout, so it pays to pay attention to grain direction, but it's not as gougy as a low angle plane can be if taken in the wrong direction. By cambering the blade aggressively, you can really take a narrow, aggressive cut that is controlled and easy to push. This makes jointing wide surfaces much easier. Before, when taking too shallow a pass (for fear of tearout) a long plane can't often find the high spot, so you have to identify the highs with a straight edge often, and use a shorter plane in localized areas, which forces you to pay careful attention to what you're removing. But with a long plane and a deeper cut, the plane can find many of the high spots more easily. So, I find that I can do more with this one plane - instead of having to switch back and forth. Because this long plane is in my hands longer, it is a benefit that it is very light (per my first point above).

The low angle jointer is a wonderful plane - especially on easier woods. Bevel down planes do take more time to release and reset the blade than do bevel ups. But this eventually becomes less daunting - even on those Primus planes with the adjusters.

I will also caveat all of this by saying you can probably make ANY plane work extremely well with requisite practice in sharpening and planing. I find that as my skills have improved, even my very first, beater smoother has been made to work extremely well. So, know that whatever you get, you gotta practice to make it sing.

[Chris Hachet]

I've been surprised by how much I use a #6 plane for jointing, since I unexpectedly found an old one at a price I couldn't walk away from. It's lighter and more dextrous than a #7, but serves very well for most furniture-scale jointing work. Mine is an old Stanley so I can't comment on the LV vs L-N question.

I have also used wooden jointers and I agree they are another good option, but wooden planes are a different adventure.

I use a #6 and also have a #8 wooden plane. My #6 is a really nice type 17 Stanley that I picked up for $45. I have used the Veritas BU plane, it has a very nice balance.

However, I found that with practice I could joint almost any edge I needed with a well tuned #5.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Johanna Johanson]

How about a question?

How long will the stock you are working be?

Like John, it surprises me how often my #6 gets used for jointing. Mostly it is used for pieces of 3' of less.

jtk

Up to 6 feet (dressers, dining table).

[Johanna Johanson]

I have not been able to find a wooden one yet. I'll search for Primus specifically to see what I find - thanks!

[Johanna Johanson]

I plan to continue using my jointer and planer to do basic milling. I am looking for the jointer plane to refine and completely level the stock and to prepare edges for gluing.

[Jim Koepke]

I plan to continue using my jointer and planer to do basic milling. I am looking for the jointer plane to refine and completely level the stock and to prepare edges for gluing.

The hardest part for you may be due to your location. You will do not have a lot of opportunity to 'test drive' different planes before making a decision.

With the power tools to prep your work, a #6 might be an adequate size for your needs. A #7 would be a bit of icing on your cake. (of course if you do not like icing on your cake a different analogy might be better.)

Is there any local pawn shops, flea markets or second hand shops?

Looking at ebay it appears the lowest charge for shipping starts around $20.

jtk

[Brian Holcombe]

I have not been able to find a wooden one yet. I'll search for Primus specifically to see what I find - thanks!

Try Steve Voigt.

When you say dining tables, do you mean face jointing slabs?

[Prashun Patel]

Johanna-
Before you buy a wood plane, try one first. They do have a little bit of a learning curve, and not everyone may like what they have to offer. Especially if you are planning to do much of your milling with power tools, and are just looking for final refinement. Wood planes can be a little awkward to use with smaller hands (like mine). Even if custom sized, you have to lay a paw across the front. Setting and tapping the blade can also be a little fidgety at first. Once up the curve, some find it easier and quicker than metal plane blade setting, but there IS a learning curve.

Also, for final jointing of edges, a boxy try or wood plane can be a little tippy. Again, it gets easier, but the Veritas jointer has a very low center of gravity and I think that assists its balance when jointing skinny edges.

I really think you should (read, hope you can) find some local Creekers to let you try the different types on for size. And I would say don't just use it, but practice removing and re-setting the blades in all of them.

[David Bassett]

As Prashun says (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245384-Considering-a-jointer&p=2583023#post2583023), it is a personal preference. While I've fallen firmly in the LV Veritas camp personally, I'd guess the Primus wooden plane Allan suggested (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245384-Considering-a-jointer&p=2582922#post2582922) would be a good choice for you.

Let me add one clarification about the LV Veritas line. Warren wrote as if they offer one jointer plane:


... the LV (7 lb. 8 oz.) ....

which is their Bevel-Up Jointer. A quick browse of their website shows four other planes that could work as a jointer depending on your work style. In bevel-up there are the 22" long 7lb 8oz Jointer and the 15" long 5lb 12oz Jack, both with 2-1/4" wide irons. In bevel-down, with chip breakers, they have three medium to long planes. Two in their custom line, #5-1/2 Jack which is 15" long and 6lb 9oz, and the #7 Jointer which is 22" long and 8lb 9oz. They also have a (non-custom) #6 Fore plane which is 18" long, (no weight is given). All three use a 2-3/8" wide iron and a chip-breaker.

Adding: Trying planes out, if possible, is a wonderful suggestion.

[Joachim Schmidt]

I have not been able to find a wooden one yet. I'll search for Primus specifically to see what I find - thanks!
Dear Johanna,

it might be more advantageous to search the name of the manufacturer. There are two manufacturers in Germany which produces similar planes : E.C.E and Ulmia. Both export their planes too. This link http://www.fine-tools.com/rauh.html get you an overview which types of jointers are available. I myself prefer the non Primus type, the wedged one. After a short while you are comfortable with tapping the blade. (Use every time the same hammer, or at least the same weight).

Hope this was helpful.

Greetings from Germany

Joachim Schmidt

[steven c newman]

Been using this "thing"
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Turning resawn pine planks into boards, faces and..
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Edges. The holes were made to attach a fence long ago ( before I bought it) I just use the left index finger as the fence.
Stanley No.7c, Type 9....doesn't do too badly
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When this becomes a full-width shaving, I am done with that area.

[David Bassett]

I have not been able to find a wooden one yet. I'll search for Primus specifically to see what I find - thanks!

I knew I'd seen them for sale in the US and poked through my bookmarks. It looks like Traditional Woodworker and Highland Woodworking both carry the ECE Primus and non-Primus Jointer planes, (among other sizes / styles from ECE.)

[Tom M King]

I don't do as much planning as some people here, but when I do, I like one with a front knob.

[Patrick Chase]

After viewing Chris Schwartz's videos, I am seriously considering adding a jointer plane (I have two jack planes and several smothers). However, I am concerned about the size and weight of a jointer. I am small (5'2") and getting rather old, so I'm not as strong as I used to be.

My choices are the LN and the Veritas. I am leaning toward the Veritas BU.

I would appreciate comments and insights.

Johanna

I would look closely at the L-N #6 and #7, Veritas Custom #7, the "classic" Veritas #6.

I have the Veritas BU jointer (the one you're leaning towards) and have a few thoughts:

At its default cutting angle of 37 deg it cuts easily (good given your stated constraints) but also tends to tear out at the first hint of adverse grain (not good at all). You can fix the tearout by swapping in a high-angle blade to get to a 50 or 62 deg cutting angle, but pushing a jointing-thickness shaving (usually 3-5 mils for me) with a cutting angle that steep is Work-with-a-capital-W.

For real-world work on woods that aren't perfectly straight grained, I think that a bevel-down jointer with a close-set cap iron is easier to use in the final analysis. The Veritas #7 (my go-to jointer these days) is particularly nice in that you can get custom frog angles down to 40 deg. I have mine at 42 deg right now (IIRC Derek has done the same with his) and have also used mine at 40 deg with good results on most woods. IN that configuration it's basically as easy to drive as the BU jointer with the cap iron set back a bit, but you retain the option of advancing the cap iron to fix tearout without destroying your arms.

The LN jointers and the Veritas #6 don't go below 45 deg, but I'd still take those over the BU jointer unless I felt up to pushing thick shavings at high cutting angles, or was sure that I'd never work difficult grain.

You might also see if somebody like Steve Voight will build you a woodie with a 2" blade, as that will reduce cutting forces by ~17%.

[Trevor Goodwin]

Paul Sellers recently covered the topic of bu planes in his blog. https://paulsellers.com/2016/07/bevel-planes-will-readily-repair-bevel-tear/

Glad to see some SMC members defending the BU planes in the comments. Paul simply doesn't like bevel-up planes for general purpose use, despite the fact that they can work just as well and sometimes better. There are dozens of other reputable woodworkers out there that advocate BU planes so I generally dismiss Paul's opinions of them. Why did he completely ignore the fact that his combined cutting angle was probably less than that of his #4?

His reply to one of the comments:

The whole point really is this. Bevel up planes are not just an alternative to bevel down planes in my view and you do have to radically alter bevels to make bevel ups work when you do not need to do that to bevel downs. I don’t really like the idea being put around that these planes are just one and the same and its a matter of personal choice. When you start to regrind bevels to different angles because you have an inch or two of rough grain that can be taken care of by a regular bevel up in 99% of cases then it’s a significant ask in my view. Keeping a second iron with a back bevel on the large flat face to create a poor mans York pitch is fast and effective and cheap too. This too will take care of that grain as well as keeping a dedicated #4 bd plane with the poor man’s York pitch permanently too. That has always worked for me so it means most people can afford it. Regrinds in tough steels take much time and effort. Better off with a regular plane and avoiding the tearout in the first place and of course, as I said, no one will convince me that the bevel up planes are anything but predictably unpredictable when it comes to them planing flat faces. You don’t get too far through three or four boards before repair needs taking care of and a number 4 bevel down works every time for me. I do quite like the BU planes for some work though. I own several for the school and introduced them five years ago.

So he's happy to have a spare blade for his #4's, but when it comes to BU planes he has to regrind a blade to change the cutting angle? Why is he ignoring the fact that you could just have a few blades set up for different cutting angles in your BU plane?


Back to the original topic...
For new jointer planes, I cast my vote for the ECE wooden jointers. The wedged models work great and are very cost effective if you aren't jointing that often but want a good quality plane. I ordered the ECE "short jointer" because I wanted the narrower blade and I'm pretty happy with it.

[Patrick Chase]

Both the LV (7 lb. 8 oz.) and the LN (8 lb. 4 oz.) are heavier yet. The LN with its double iron is a better plane. If you are just going to use the plane for edge jointing, the weight does not matter so much and you could probably handle it. If you are flattening the faces of boards, you are looking at longer periods so I would consider other options.

To be fair, the Veritas BU Jointer is most similar to the LN 7-1/2 (also a 12-deg bed, bevel-up, 22" jointer).

The appropriate comparison for the LN #7 would be to the Veritas Custom #7, which is also a double-iron plane though with rather different mechanics (the mouth adjustment in particular may be polarizing for some, though Veritas' machining is good enough to make it work) and with the option of custom bed angles down to 40 deg.

I agree with your (implied) point that a double iron is preferable in a jointer.

[Patrick Chase]

Up to 6 feet (dressers, dining table).

This will probably get me flamed but... that's Real Jointer (tm) territory. I think you're looking at the right planes here.

Obviously with sufficient skill and copious measurements you can joint with just about anything, but at 6' a 22-24" jointer will make your life noticeably easier.

[Patrick Chase]

I knew I'd seen them for sale in the US and poked through my bookmarks. It looks like Traditional Woodworker and Highland Woodworking both carry the ECE Primus and non-Primus Jointer planes, (among other sizes / styles from ECE.)

LV also carries a lot of their planes but not the jointer. I have a wedge-type Ulmia toothing plane, and am very impressed with the tool. I've played with the "Primus" adjustment mechanism and it was a little over-engineered for my tastes (and that's really saying something) but others swear by it.

[Stewie Simpson]

Glad to see some SMC members defending the BU planes in the comments. Paul simply doesn't like bevel-up planes for general purpose use, despite the fact that they can work just as well and sometimes better. There are dozens of other reputable woodworkers out there that advocate BU planes so I generally dismiss Paul's opinions of them. Why did he completely ignore the fact that his combined cutting angle was probably less than that of his #4?

His reply to one of the comments:


So he's happy to have a spare blade for his #4's, but when it comes to BU planes he has to regrind a blade to change the cutting angle? Why is he ignoring the fact that you could just have a few blades set up for different cutting angles in your BU plane?


Back to the original topic...
For new jointer planes, I cast my vote for the ECE wooden jointers. The wedged models work great and are very cost effective if you aren't jointing that often but want a good quality plane. I ordered the ECE "short jointer" because I wanted the narrower blade and I'm pretty happy with it.

Trevor; the following blog entry by Paul Sellers may answer that question. https://paulsellers.com/2014/11/questions-answered-york-pitch-only-answers-one-problem/

[Patrick Chase]

Glad to see some SMC members defending the BU planes in the comments. Paul simply doesn't like bevel-up planes for general purpose use, despite the fact that they can work just as well and sometimes better. There are dozens of other reputable woodworkers out there that advocate BU planes so I generally dismiss Paul's opinions of them. Why did he completely ignore the fact that his combined cutting angle was probably less than that of his #4?

His reply to one of the comments:

[snip]

So he's happy to have a spare blade for his #4's, but when it comes to BU planes he has to regrind a blade to change the cutting angle? Why is he ignoring the fact that you could just have a few blades set up for different cutting angles in your BU plane?


Yep, even when he has the right bottom-line answer (and IMO he does in this case) his reasoning is self-contradicting and borderline-incomprehensible.

I'll sum up my reply in 3 words: Angles aren't everything.

As you say, it's easy enough to hone a BU blade to match or even exceed the cutting angle of a BD plane, but angle isn't what we care about. Bottom-line performance is, and a BU plane at 45 deg cutting angle (as you describe) isn't the equal of a common pitch BD plane for the simple reason that you don't have the option of using the cap iron to control tearout. You can match the tearout performance of a BD plane by using an even higher-angled blade, but then cutting forces start to climb and surface "glassiness" suffers.

The Veritas BU was my first jointer, but I've since concluded that it operates in a fundamentally inferior glassiness/effort/tearout tradeoff space as compared to double-iron BD jointers.

EDIT: In the interests of balance, I should probably acknowledge that I still have the BU jointer and don't plan to get rid of it. I keep it set up with a 25 deg blade (secondary bevel, primary is hollow-ground at ~23) and use it whenever I want a very low cutting angle and don't care about tearout, for example to get the glassiest possible finish on straight grained wood or for working long end-grain edges. I sometimes use it to true up the edges of pieces of baltic birch ply and maple die board, though that's pretty brutal on edges. It also handles very well due to what some describe as "center of effort", though that's a very secondary concern for me.

[Jim Koepke]

This will probably get me flamed but... that's Real Jointer (tm) territory. I think you're looking at the right planes here.

Obviously with sufficient skill and copious measurements you can joint with just about anything, but at 6' a 22-24" jointer will make your life noticeably easier.

Agree, one of the neat things about the transitional planes like Steven posted is one can make a base to suite their own need. A cheap one with good metal parts and a good 2x4 of some hardwood would get someone on the way to making a light and inexpensive jointer.

There are more options than one can imagine.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Agree, one of the neat things about the transitional planes like Steven posted is one can make a base to suite their own need. A cheap one with good metal parts and a good 2x4 of some hardwood would get someone on the way to making a light and inexpensive jointer.

There are more options than one can imagine.

jtk

Yep, I agree completely. I didn't mean to imply that metal planes are the only game in town. How about "22 inch and up jointer"? :-)

[steven c newman]

Stanley No. 31.....24" long, and has a 2-3/8" wide iron....about half the weight of a Stanley No.8
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Mine is from 1892....

[Patrick Chase]

Stanley No. 31.....24" long, and has a 2-3/8" wide iron....about half the weight of a Stanley No.8
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Mine is from 1892....

I've seen a lot of references to weight here, though I have to ask: How much does that really matter for surface jointing?

For heavy jointing cuts I mostly notice the weight when taking the plane out of the cabinet and carrying it to the bench, and to a lesser degree when drawing it back between strokes. During the actual planing I perceive (perhaps wrongly) that the effect of weight is totally dominated by cutting forces when using the full width of the blade.

Edge jointing is a different matter, but that's just not as much work period, and therefore isn't a "limiting" concern for me.

[steven c newman]

The one thing about weight nobody talks about...bringing that aircraft carrier sized plane back to the start point....Too much blade wear IF you simply drag on of these back...you have to lift at least one end or the other. A 5 pound plane is a lot easier to haul backwards than those 10 pound #8s (BTDT)

[Stewie Simpson]

The Veritas BU was my first jointer, but I've since concluded that it operates in a fundamentally inferior glassiness/effort/tearout tradeoff space as compared to double-iron BD jointers.

EDIT: In the interests of balance, I should probably acknowledge that I still have the BD jointer and don't plan to get rid of it. I keep it set up with a 25 deg blade (secondary bevel, primary is hollow-ground at ~23) and use it whenever I want a very low cutting angle and don't care about tearout, for example to get the glassiest possible finish on straight grained wood or for working long end-grain edges. I sometimes use it to true up the edges of pieces of baltic birch ply and maple die board, though that's pretty brutal on edges. It also handles very well due to what some describe as "center of effort", though that's a very secondary concern for me.

Oops Patrick. Ya nose will grow just like Pinocchio. :D

[Patrick Chase]

Oops Patrick. Ya nose will grow just like Pinocchio. :D

Typo. Fixed. :-)

I have 2 BD jointers (Veritas Custom # 7, L-N #8) so I wouldn't have said "the" if I'd been referring to those.

[Frederick Skelly]

After viewing Chris Schwartz's videos, I am seriously considering adding a jointer plane (I have two jack planes and several smothers). However, I am concerned about the size and weight of a jointer. I am small (5'2") and getting rather old, so I'm not as strong as I used to be.

My choices are the LN and the Veritas. I am leaning toward the Veritas BU.

I would appreciate comments and insights.

Johanna

I have the Veritas BU. It's a nice tool and it isn't heavy.
Fred

[Mike Holbrook]

Johanna,
People here ask a good many qualifying questions in an effort to "hone" in on better comments. I know it may be tough to answer some of these. You mention 6 feet as a board length you may need to work. I suspect that this is a good deal more than you will typically be working. I know I have a tendency to think in terms of the size of an entire piece rather than the boards and surfaces making those objects up.

Building things in smaller pieces is helpful for some of us guys who are getting a little age on us. I mention this because designing smaller pieces may make the entire project easier to accomplish and deal with once it is done. I am planing a move and trying to reduce cabinets, benches....into sizes I can actually move around without needing help. Those that may need to be larger or heavier I am outfitting with casters or designing in pieces that stack easily on a hand truck...

If you design smaller objects you may not need as large a jointer plane and save yourself a few physical issues. In the last year or two, I find myself using my medium sized "jointer" planes the most. They are typically capable of a wider range of activities and are easier to use too. I have long jointers, I just do not use them very much. It seems to me that many experienced woodworkers on these pages spend more time using trying/fore sized planes in recent years. Large pieces may actually be handled on some of those mechanical devices that we do not discuss here.

My favorite plane for many years has been the LV BU Jack. It just feels right. Recently I bought a LV Custom 5 1/2 because I wanted a plane similar to my BU Jack that had a chip breaker. One of my attractions to the BD plane has to do with ease of use. Recent posts on these and other forums suggests that one can use a lower angle frog on a BD plane and prevent tear out with the chip breaker. The LV custom planes offer custom frogs (my #4 has a 42 degree frog and my 5 1/2 has a 40). A lower angled frog is typically easier to push than a higher angled one. I bought two blades with it so I would have one for heavier and lighter stock removal without having to regrind the blade. A try/fore type plane might work for you and feel more like the #5's you are accustom to.

[Phil Mueller]

Mike, having a LN #62 (and liking it a lot), I've been considering a 5 1/2 BD as well for the same reasons. Not to hijack this thread, what angle frog did you purchase (the 40degree?) how do you like it?
Thanks, Phil.

[Megan Fitzpatrick]

FWIW, I'm relatively small (compared to many woodworkers, anyway) and also not as strong/in good shape as I used to be; I use an LN No. 7 with no trouble (as long as I can get my arms over the tool to use my legs for most of the necessary force...which means a bench low enough to allow that). When I use a No. 8, I do tire more quickly. But because my jack does the majority of any stock removal, I'm not typically using the heavier jointer for very long.

[Randall Houghton]

Hi Johanna I have both of the planes your looking at as well as a woodie or two and I live in Rio Rancho so if you would like to get together to try them out send me a PM and we'll arrange a meet.

Regards Randy

[Mike Holbrook]

Phil,
Yes I have a 40 degree frog on my 5 1/2 and a 42 on my #4. I like them both a great deal. The custom planes have all the features I have come to appreciate on my BU planes with customizable totes, handles and frogs. There is even a custom slower blade adjuster available now. The weight distribution although a little different still feels very familiar. I hollow ground the original blade with a relatively small camber, more on the outside edges. I am working on a more generous camber on the other blade.

I got the wide knob, which I find helpful for raising the front end or adding pressure. I have the traditional tote. I can drop my pinky down on the plane body when I want lower pressure, like I use the original totes. I can also raise my whole hand up on the handle, like I use a traditional Stanley tote, when I am targeting specific areas of a board that needs short accurate strokes.

[Johanna Johanson]

Thanks for that feedback, Megan. Blessedly my main bench has Noden Adjust-A-Bench legs, so I can easily adjust it for planing. Since I plan to use the jointer for truing stock that has been through the power jointer and planer, your comment makes really good sense.

[Johanna Johanson]

Excellent suggestions, especially the comment about small hands (mine are, indeed, small), thank you.

[Johanna Johanson]

I'll be in Berlin next year. It looks like I have a special place to visit while I'm there! Thank you.

[Johanna Johanson]

You have hit the nail on the head, Jim. I love New Mexico, but there are some drawbacks. Hardwoods are very expensive since they are all shipped in (we have no native hardwoods except ones in the poplar family).

Blessedly, Santa Fe Community College has a fine woodworking program based on the one at College of the Redwoods. I have had excellent instructors there: Jonathan Benson, the Beuchleys, Christoph Neander, to name a few.

[Phil Mueller]

Thanks Mike, appreciate the input. Looks like I may have to bust open another piggy bank.

[Jerry Olexa]

A jointer plane properly sharpened will glide thru your work..The weight actually helps esp when edge jointing...I reco an older SBailey 6 or 7..The 8's are a monster...

[steven c newman]

They work very nicely on face work, too...
340649
Once you get all the high spots planed off..
340650
Planes this size aren't really bothered by knots, either..
340651
There is enough weight, they do not bounce off of the knots.....
340652
Edge grain works nicely, too. The one doing the edge grain is an Ohio Tool co. No.0-7 and the one waiting it's turn is a Stanley No.7c, Type 9. Both are about the same age......

Now...there are a lot of other toys in the last view, can you all identify them?

[Patrick Chase]

A jointer plane properly sharpened will glide thru your work..The weight actually helps esp when edge jointing...I reco an older SBailey 6 or 7..The 8's are a monster...

It appears that you accidentally typed "glide" when you really meant to say "plough like a freight train"

[Allan Speers]

FWIW, I'm relatively small (compared to many woodworkers, anyway) and also not as strong/in good shape as I used to be; I use an LN No. 7 with no trouble (as long as I can get my arms over the tool to use my legs for most of the necessary force...which means a bench low enough to allow that). When I use a No. 8, I do tire more quickly. But because my jack does the majority of any stock removal, I'm not typically using the heavier jointer for very long.

Megan makes an very important point.

Getting the work at the ideal height, and positioning you body at the proper angles, is a lot more important than which plane you choose.

[Jim Koepke]

Megan makes an very important point.

Getting the work at the ideal height, and positioning you body at the proper angles, is a lot more important than which plane you choose.

My thought is toward - more important no matter which plane you choose. -. Especially when you get a bit older and have to contend with the aches and pains of experience.

jtk

[Johanna Johanson]

You could consider a wooden jointer!

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Messages
Subject:
Re: Considering a jointer
Posted By:
Johanna
Date:
7/15/2016, 3:41 pm
Response To:
Re: Considering a jointer (http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/messages.pl/page/1/md/read/id/500370/sbj/considering-a-jointer/) (Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia))

In the end, I received the most wonderful surprise - one of our number offered to give me a jointer plane made by David Finck! I am really looking forward to it.
All in all this has been a great thread - lots of excellent comments here and on SMC. Many thanks to all of you who responded.

[Johanna Johanson]

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Messages
Subject:
Re: Considering a jointer
Posted By:
Johanna
Date:
7/15/2016, 3:41 pm
Response To:
Re: Considering a jointer (http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/messages.pl/page/1/md/read/id/500370/sbj/considering-a-jointer/) (Derek Cohen (in Perth, Australia))

In the end, I received the most wonderful surprise - one of our number offered to give me a jointer plane made by David Finck! I am really looking forward to it.
All in all this has been a great thread - lots of excellent comments here and on SMC. Many thanks to all of you who responded.

[lowell holmes]

Hi Johanna,

The thing you will read about the BU planes, is that because of the lower angel of attack, the BU planes are a little more prone to tear out on wild grain. They are a bit lighter than the BD jointers, however. The BU jointers, however, are better on end grain, so are ideal for shooting boards.

I do have to add to be fair, however, that I do not have a BU jointer, only block planes that are BU. I do love my block planes, however, and use them quite a bit.

Stew

If you use a 55 degree iron in the bevel up plane you can control tear out.

[Rob Luter]

Hi Johanna,

The thing you will read about the BU planes, is that because of the lower angel of attack, the BU planes are a little more prone to tear out on wild grain. They are a bit lighter than the BD jointers, however. The BU jointers, however, are better on end grain, so are ideal for shooting boards.

I do have to add to be fair, however, that I do not have a BU jointer, only block planes that are BU. I do love my block planes, however, and use them quite a bit.

Stew
I have a BU Jack (Veritas) and I'd disagree. While a low angle blade will give you issues with tear out, you have the option of multiple blades (or grind angles) that will handle anything. This includes LA block planes like a 60 1/2. In retrospect, I kind of wish I'd gone with all BU planes. A Smoother, Jack, and Jointer would cover everything I'd need as far as bench planes.