Problems with Endurovar

[Marc Burt]

I finished a dining table with Endurovar. From everything I read it is durable finish, however after just 3 months of use it seems to be really susceptible to heat. My wife's laptop left a big white spot after sitting there for just two hours. After that experience and looking closer I can see faint white spots where the plates would sit. Needless to say this is quite disappointing not just for the work involved but because I really liked the topcoat - the color and ease of application.

I'm a little confused because everything I've read says what a durable finish this is and I've noticed it scratches really really easily. I'm almost wondering if I didn't get a bad batch. We're not hard on our furniture. I finished my previous kitchen table (new house, new table) with an oil based GF product and never had any abrasion issues in 5 years - and certainly nowhere near the number of scratches in this after just 3 months.

So to summarize:

1. Is Endurovar just not recommended for tabletop use?
2. Anybody have any suggestions on how to get the white spots out?
3. Is this just a problem with a water based finish?

Thanks for your help!

[Andy Giddings]

Marc, can you give us some insight as to what the dining table material is and whether you used any finish under the Enduro?

Also, I would recommend taking this up directly with GF via their Facebook page. They are very good at responding and are obviously the experts. I used Endurovar for my workbench top and am pretty hard on it. It hasn't shown any signs of wear over about 6 months of constant use. Admittedly I'm not putting hot objects on it but a laptop should not cause an issue.

[Marc Burt]

Andy, thanks for responding.

The top is white oak and is finished with GF medium brown water based stain. I applied 3 coats of Endurovar.

I have allowed cups to sweat on the tabletop and not had a problem with water penetration. It just seems to be the best issue. And realistically how hot can a laptop get?? It's not that hot.

I hope to call GF Monday. I meant to yesterday but got distracted doing something else.

[Andy Giddings]

No problem Marc. I can't see that your finishing approach would cause any issue. White stains from heat can be a sign of moisture. I know in the days of oil finishes the trick to get rid of them was to use a Steam Iron on a steam setting with a towel over the mark to adsorb the moisture. Have no idea if that will work on a water base finish. Google is your friend if you want to try the iron technique. Think I would wait until I'd talked to GF though

[Wayne Lomman]

Marc, you have just experienced one of the limitations of the common water borne coatings. The common coatings are selling low VOC and hope you don't notice the rest. You are better off using a hydro carbon based coating or else be prepared to very carefully protect your finish. Even if you use a water borne floor coating it won't work the same as the hydrocarbon based coatings.

As for getting feedback from GF, expect the response to imply that it is applicator error. If it is a fault with the product, it will still be applicator error. Good luck. Cheers.

[John TenEyck]

I must disagree with you Wayne. Have you every used EnduroVar? I've been using it for over 5 years and it has stood up very well in difficult applications, as well as any common finish a hobbiest has access to. It tested better than OB Poly varnish in some fairly extensive testing I did. 350F coffee cups, heated in the oven, did nothing to it. At $90+/gallon it had better not be a "common water borne coating" and it's not.

I think the problem was either that the stain hadn't dried completely, or the wood's MC was too high to start with, or the temp. was too low when the finish was applied, or the EnduroVar was bad. I've used more than 20 gals of EnduroVar and never had bad product. My guess is there was water under the EnduroVar.

John

[Wayne Lomman]

John, my comments are based on extensive experience with water borne coatings. I will admit that my work almost always deals with specifications that test the limits of coatings. As yet I have not found one that performs as claimed. Maybe Endurovar does. If it does, then GF will have no hesitation in saying it was applied incorrectly and therefore not their problem. Apologies for my cynicism. It is not directed at any individual, I just think water-borne coatings are largely sold like snake oil. Cheers

[John TenEyck]

Wayne, I didn't take your comments personally, nor did I think you intended them towards anyone else. I just took exception with your inclusion of EnduroVar with lower end WB products.

You really should give EnduroVar a try. Let it cure for at least 7 days and then give it your worst. You may change your opinion about at least one WB product.

To the OP, take some of your EnduroVar, if you still have some, and apply the same number of coats as on the problem piece to a piece of plywood or solid wood that you know is dry. Let it cure 7 days and then set your wife's computer on it. The result will tell you if the problem is with EnduroVar or something else.

John

[Wayne Lomman]

What John says. Cheers

[Marc Burt]

I don't have anything from that batch of finish to test unfortunately. I do, however, have a toy chest from the same oak that I finished afterwards with the same stain and a different batch of endurovar. I think I'm going to test it today. If I get the same white spots then I think it's safe to say I did something wrong.

I agree that no matter what GF will tell it's user error. Really I don't care. I just want to know how to get the spots out (hopefully not sanding it all the way back). I also wanted to know if I what I am experiencing was typical of the product. It doesn't sound like it is.

I'll let you know what happens.

[John TenEyck]

Marc, was your oak air dried or kiln dried?

John