2nd Build (first) - CNC Router [Archive] - Sawmill Creek Woodworking Community

David Falkner

07-08-2016, 8:41 PM

Building my 2nd CNC first, I hope. I have been researching for over a year, read a thousand threads and articles, and am hopefully building my 'second machine' for my first. There is still a ton to learn and that process will probably never stop. Of this I am certain, I will be in new territory for a while. For over 40 years I have been building things, doing hydraulics, pneumatics, and electronics builds and troubleshooting along with a lot of woodworking but have never used or built a CNC machine. This is going to be fun!!

The machine is a new model by Nate at Fine Line Automation. It's a 'pro' series he calls Saturn and it is very heavy. Shipping weight was 525 lbs. for this 2'x4' model. Take away the OxBox and pallet and it's probably still 475 lbs. The frame is welded and stress relieved steel, powder coated Pantone 305. It has THK style linear bearings, rack and pinion drive, and the components are anodized black 6061 aluminum. I have a 3 Kw water cooled spindle and NEMA 34 stepper motors ready to mount. I'll be using the Hitachi WJ200-022SF VFD to drive the spindle. The actual cutting area is 28”x52” with 10” Z travel.

The first order of business, now that it's here, was clearing out enough space in our shop for two CNC machines (our shop is the attached two-car garage). It has to set in one place while I build the stand where it will actually reside, so space for two in an already crowded shop. I'll be building a frame with 2x4's and maybe a couple of 2x6's. Then I need about 5 large friends to help me carry the CNC over to the stand.

Picked up from FedEx and barely fit on a friend's trailer -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/001%20-%20Saturn%20CNC%20-%20Frame%20loaded%20at%20FedEx%20-%207-8-16_zps5ucd9two.jpg

OxBox container removed and setting on the pallet until I get the stand built -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/002%20-%20Saturn%20CNC%20-%20Frame%20just%20uncrated%20-%207-8-16_zpszohdbswr.jpg

A few close-ups –
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/003%20-%20Drive_zpsevhppcjg.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/004%20-%20Z%20axis_zpsdb6cy5uq.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/005%20-%20Drive_zps197oalg4.jpg

Next step will be a trip to Lowe's for 2x4's and then make some sawdust.

Hope you enjoy the ride with me!
David

Mike Heidrick

07-08-2016, 9:25 PM

Nice looking machine.

Brian Lamb

07-08-2016, 9:29 PM

Nice looking machine, but why 10" of Z when it looks like you have maybe 4-6" of clearance under the carriage? By the time you mount a table and spoil board on that you won't have need for so much Z.

David Falkner

07-08-2016, 11:29 PM

Nice looking machine.

Thanks, Mike!

Nice looking machine, but why 10" of Z when it looks like you have maybe 4-6" of clearance under the carriage? By the time you mount a table and spoil board on that you won't have need for so much Z.

Thanks, Brian! It's actually 7" clearance but I'd rather have more Z travel than I need as opposed to wishing it was 'just a little more...' ;)

Brian Lamb

07-09-2016, 9:03 AM

Agreed, a little more Z travel will help with longer tools. I just expected the carriage to be mounted a bit higher above the bed.... might just be the angle in the pictures.

David Falkner

07-09-2016, 10:35 AM

Agreed, a little more Z travel will help with longer tools. I just expected the carriage to be mounted a bit higher above the bed.... might just be the angle in the pictures.

Here's a better shot of that -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/006%20-%20Gantry%20clearance_zpsecf4g7ow.jpg

Keith Outten

07-09-2016, 10:43 AM

Bruce Page

07-09-2016, 1:06 PM

That's a beautiful looking machine, you are going to love rigidness of that welded frame. There is a lot of inertia generated with the fast gantry moves so make sure to build your stand stout. I used 2x6, 2x4 & 4x4's for my Mick Martin designed table with full dados, glued & screwed in the corner posts/legs. I get very little movement even at 300ipm.

David Falkner

07-09-2016, 2:38 PM

David,

Looks like you new CNC Router has a very sturdy frame and excellent components. I'll bet it will be a really fine machine when you get it running. I wish you had uploaded the pictures here so they would be accessible to everyone in the future.
.

I suppose I could still do that. I put photos on PhotoBucket so I can have one common size and place for all the forums in which I participate, which is about 10 for woodworking, CNC, and Luthiers. But for what it's worth, unless PhotoBucket moves something, these are all in their own folder and I don't plan on moving it or deleting it.

That's a beautiful looking machine, you are going to love rigidness of that welded frame. There is a lot of inertia generated with the fast gantry moves so make sure to build your stand stout. I used 2x6, 2x4 & 4x4's for my Mick Martin designed table with full dados, glued & screwed in the corner posts/legs. I get very little movement even at 300ipm.

That's a really nice stand, Bruce! I'm using 2x4's but doubling up and bracing a lot so it should end up fairly sturdy. Not that this beast of a frame will move, though. Btw, rapids on this are in the 1600 ipm range with 2200 ipm max. I may never run it that fast for rapids and even if I did it would only be for a second or less - it doesn't take long to go 4' at that speed!

David

Bruce Page

07-09-2016, 4:39 PM

Mike Heidrick

07-09-2016, 6:25 PM

What stepper drivers and motion controller/BOB do you plan to run?

Whats the amp rating on your nema34 stepper motors?

Do you plan to mount a drop plate to that Z to get your spindle mount lower?

How do you plan to attach the bed to those steel bed supports or does it attach a different way?

Any plans on T track or setup for a vac table?

I love DIY CNC!

David Falkner

07-09-2016, 11:22 PM

Holy moly, that's crazy fast! Mine maxes out at 600ipm X&Y & 400 Z. I can't imagine ever cutting anywhere close to 1600ipm unless you're cutting cardboard. I typically cut at 200ipm rough, and 100ipm or less for finish, but I do this for fun, not profit.

Here's a pic of my setup after it evolved a year or two. I'm looking forward to seeing yours after you get it setup.

Yes, it is crazy fast. But that would be for rapids. I doubt I'll cut anything but air at that speed!! Your setup looks really nice and the good part is that you're using yours. Mine is a shop full of parts right now.

What stepper drivers and motion controller/BOB do you plan to run?

Whats the amp rating on your nema34 stepper motors?

Do you plan to mount a drop plate to that Z to get your spindle mount lower?
Not sure yet but possibly. The spindle mount should be here next week and I'll see how it looks with the spindle attached.

How do you plan to attach the bed to those steel bed supports or does it attach a different way?
Probably drill and tap for 1/4-20 bolts.

Any plans on T track or setup for a vac table?
Thinking about a T-track setup and vacuum table down the road.

I love DIY CNC!

Here's everything I have acquired so far - (hope this helps) -
WJ200-022SF Hitachi VFD Drives Warehouse (https://www.driveswarehouse.com/p-2527-wj200-022sf.aspx)
Spindle 3 kW Water cooled spindle - eBay item# 272040784061
5.5A 34HS31-5504S Nema 34 CNC Stepper Motor 4.5Nm (637oz.in) Stepper Online - Stepper motor (http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-34-cnc-stepper-motor-45nm637ozin-55a-34hs315504s-p-72.html)
KL-8056D Keling Technology - Digital Stepper Driver Automation Technology - Stepper Driver (http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/digital-stepper-motor-driver/digital-stepper-driver-kl-8056d-heat-sink-is-included)
S-500-48 Switching Power Supply 500W 48V 10.4A Stepper Online - Power supply (http://omc-stepperonline.kancart.com/item_detail/168-Switching-Power-Supply-500W-48V-10-4A-for-CNC-Router-115V-230V-S-500-48#!detail)
ESS Ethernet SmoothStepper Automation Technology - ESS (http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/breakout-boards/smoothstepper-ethernet-motion-control-board-for-mach-3)
C25S ESS terminal board CNC4PC - Terminal board (http://cnc4pc.com/c25s-smooth-stepper-terminal-board.html)
A9 Latch Twist-Release E-Stop Button CNC4PC - E Stop (http://cnc4pc.com/hardware/e-stop/a9-latch-twist-release-e-stop-button.html)
5 Volt PSU 5VDC @ 3 AMP 15W AC/DC Enclosed Switching PSU CNC4PC - 5V Power supply (http://cnc4pc.com/5vdc-3-amp-15w-ac-dc-enclosed-switching-power-supply.html)

Oh, and here's the web site for Fine Line Automation (http://www.finelineautomation.com) although this model isn't listed yet (I think he's about got that ready to go live, though).

David Falkner

07-11-2016, 10:16 PM

Started on the stand and got it about half finished (yes, it's upside down) -

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/007%20-%20Stand_zps3ue3lkgo.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/008%20-%20Adjustable%20feet_zps0whi40bz.jpg

Biff Phillips

07-12-2016, 3:07 PM

Nice looking machine, but why 10" of Z when it looks like you have maybe 4-6" of clearance under the carriage? By the time you mount a table and spoil board on that you won't have need for so much Z.

Extra Z travel can come in handy. Suppose you had 6" of clearance under the gantry. Suppose your router bit extended 3" past the collet. In order to retract the bottom of the bit so that it is higher than the bottom of the gantry, you now need about 9" of Z travel.

I have a vertical mounting board on my CNC so that I can clamp a board vertically and cut dovetails on the end. I built my Z slide to have 14" of travel so that I could lift it high enough to cut the end of a 48" board. I haven't had to do a 48" board yet, but since I was building my own Z slide, why not go bigger.. I have done ends of boards that were higher than the bottom of my gantry though.

So there's two reasons why it might be useful.

David Falkner

07-12-2016, 5:06 PM

Extra Z travel can come in handy. Suppose you had 6" of clearance under the gantry. Suppose your router bit extended 3" past the collet. In order to retract the bottom of the bit so that it is higher than the bottom of the gantry, you now need about 9" of Z travel.

I have a vertical mounting board on my CNC so that I can clamp a board vertically and cut dovetails on the end. I built my Z slide to have 14" of travel so that I could lift it high enough to cut the end of a 48" board. I haven't had to do a 48" board yet, but since I was building my own Z slide, why not go bigger.. I have done ends of boards that were higher than the bottom of my gantry though.

So there's two reasons why it might be useful.

That's what I was thinking, Biff. I plan on leaving a section free for clamping vertical pieces, as well, and I know the extra Z travel will come in handy.

Brian Lamb

07-12-2016, 6:11 PM

Good points on the Z, but I would place the Spindle motor in such a way that the shortest tool ever used would be pretty close to flush with the lowest hanging portion of the carriage, that way you can take advantage of all the Z you can get.

David Falkner

07-12-2016, 10:29 PM

David Falkner

07-12-2016, 10:29 PM

Finished the stand today. I know I'm thorough but this took me about 20 hours to build and I have no idea if that's slow or fast or about average. It's actually fast for me and I managed to do it in two sessions - 8 hours yesterday and 12 today.

All the pieces that will contact the CNC frame are jointed to ensure they're flat and straight and each hole was drilled with 1/8" for threads, 3/16" for the barrel, countersunk for the head, and securely tightened, so about 4 operations for each of the hundred or so fasteners. Each joint is square and tight and then the entire stand was sanded. I may come back later and put some Shellac on it but not today.

A friend is coming over tomorrow and bringing his engine hoist so we can lift the frame onto the stand. More later!!

David

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/010%20-%20Finished%20stand_zps3uz0cepf.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/011%20-%20Finished%20stand_zpsk8szigjj.jpg

David Falkner

07-13-2016, 8:35 PM

We managed to get the CNC frame lifted over the table saw extension and on to the stand. The stand worked perfectly, so that's a good feeling. Nothing creaked or moved and it is dead level with the additional nearly 500 lbs. of weight just as it was without the frame weighing it down.

My friend Adam, also a good woodworker, brought his engine hoist over and we managed to maneuver the CNC over the obstacles and set onto the stand and only had to move my air compressor to make room. That's not a bad feat given how tight this was.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/012%20-%20Adam%20CNC%20frame%20on%20engine%20hoist_zpspf9 zid3r.jpg

CNC frame on the stand -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/013%20-%20CNC%20frame%20on%20stand_zps3giuyj9i.jpg

Mike Heidrick

07-14-2016, 6:16 AM

Getting closer. Looks great. You get a serious time catapult when buying your machine built for you for sure. They built a nice stout looking machine.

David Falkner

07-14-2016, 7:54 AM

Getting closer. Looks great. You get a serious time catapult when buying your machine built for you for sure. They built a nice stout looking machine.

Thanks, Mike! I agree on the jump forward; I was going to get this machine (https://www.finelineautomation.com/products/2-x-4-cnc-router) from Nate but when I started talking to him I learned he was coming out with a Pro line. So I jumped on the bandwagon and got the first one. His website now has this Saturn CNC (https://www.finelineautomation.com/products/saturn-series-2-x-4-cnc-router?taxon_id=54) listed (and the photos are of our CNC). And yes, it is very stout!

David Falkner

07-14-2016, 7:59 PM

Here's a good shot of the CNC in our shop. There's some clutter from moving things around to make room for this but I'll get that organized and cleaned up soon. You can see the spindle, steppers, and other components on the bench so hopefully I'll get a chance to start mounting those over the next few days.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/014%20-%20CNC%20in%20the%20shop_zpsqncdd8f0.jpg

ed vitanovec

07-15-2016, 8:21 AM

David Falkner

07-15-2016, 11:24 AM

Nice machine! I am considering one of these Saturn CNC routers. A question, what is the foot print dimensions of the square tube frame? I am looking either build a stand or buy one that might be close in size to work.
Thank you!
Ed

Thanks, Ed! The frame and stand are both 43" x 62" although the cable tray and steppers will hang over the stand a bit. With the stand I designed and built that places the steppers about 38" high and at that height the width of the machine is 52". Does that help?

Bruce Page

07-15-2016, 1:24 PM

I didn't think I would ever be able to say this but your shop is more crowded than mine!

David Falkner

07-15-2016, 3:52 PM

I didn't think I would ever be able to say this but your shop is more crowded than mine!

LOL! There is a lot packed in there but thankfully I have room to do what I want and that is staying focused on building acoustic guitars. If I was building cabinets or large sheet goods items this wouldn't work at all. But the longest piece I typically cut is 36" or less. It's packed but it flows well from task to task. Let's just say it's efficient :D

David Falkner

07-15-2016, 3:52 PM

Added some locator blocks to keep the frame on the stand. I figure gravity will do its part to hold the machine down onto the stand but inertia and momentum may persuade the unit to slide on the stand. Hopefully this will suffice. There are 4 of these blocks in opposing directions, two on each end.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/015%20-%20Locator%20blocks_zps34cszwtl.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/016%20-%20Locator%20blocks_zpsiwkscoiu.jpg

Mike Heidrick

07-16-2016, 1:35 AM

For my spindle I ran Igus Chainflex power cable to the Amphenol Ecomate connector. I changed out the chinese solder cup junk connector for the ecomate.
connectors
http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/eco-l-mate-c016/2185

power cable
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0ahUKEwj269_Mn_fNAhVKgiYKHUxwC2YQFgheMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdatasheet.octopart.com%2FCF30-100-04-igus-datasheet-28917.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEIHYChvnPIbR25ZV6A8fiB0K4EcQ&sig2=pi3aMxtb4LduDHT4Aiofbg&bvm=bv.127178174,d.eWE&cad=rja

(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&ved=0ahUKEwj269_Mn_fNAhVKgiYKHUxwC2YQFgheMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdatasheet.octopart.com%2FCF30-100-04-igus-datasheet-28917.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEIHYChvnPIbR25ZV6A8fiB0K4EcQ&sig2=pi3aMxtb4LduDHT4Aiofbg&bvm=bv.127178174,d.eWE&cad=rja)
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/Cast%20CNC/PC244047.jpg

Pics of how I changed the plug out are here:
http://s39.photobucket.com/user/BloomingtonMike/library/Cast%20CNC?sort=3&page=2

ed vitanovec

07-16-2016, 8:41 AM

David,

Thanks for the dimensions, just what I was looking for. Your machine is looking really good. When you ordered it, how long did it take to receive it?

Regards!
Ed

David Falkner

07-16-2016, 10:45 AM

David Falkner

07-16-2016, 10:58 AM

David,

Thanks for the dimensions, just what I was looking for. Your machine is looking really good. When you ordered it, how long did it take to receive it?

Regards!
Ed

Glad to help, Ed. Our order was an exception because I got with Nate as he was developing the prototype (and that's the one we have now). He told me about the development in mid February and I committed at that time knowing it would take a little while. The development took about 3 months longer than both of us expected but the technically correct response to your question is that I ordered/paid for it on 6/30/16 and received it on 7/8/16. There was a holiday to factor in but now that Nate has this one out of the way and frames and parts in stock I would suspect if you ordered one today you'd have it in 2-3 weeks. According to his website (https://www.finelineautomation.com/products/saturn-series-2-x-4-cnc-router?taxon_id=54) he has 17 left to get the discount and free shipping and they have a 1-2 week lead time.

Gerry Grzadzinski

07-16-2016, 11:06 AM

David Falkner

07-16-2016, 12:55 PM

Nate has had a long history of late deliveries and poor communication in the past. You can find a lot of threads at CNC Zone about it.

This new machine looks pretty good, so hopefully those issues are in the past.

Yes sir, I read those but decided to give him a chance anyway. I stayed on top of the communication from the start, though, and set the expectation that I required regular and frequent communication because of what I had read. But I also asked for regular updates, photos, texts, emails. etc. throughout the entire development process and he came through right up to the crated unit on his trailer and heading to FedEx. Let's hope it only gets better.

Gotta' say, though, from the day I ordered/paid for it to taking delivery was only 8 days and that includes the weekend and July 4th holiday. I think this is a good machine and am trusting it will do what I need within the capabilities of the build.

Glad you like the machine, Gerry. I read your posts often and value your knowledge and experience. I think it's a good machine based on years of owning equipment and being involved in manufacturing many years but I don't have any experience with CNC machines until now.

David Falkner

07-16-2016, 10:53 PM

Mike Heidrick

07-17-2016, 11:10 AM

I used a 14ga 4 conductor version. That is 15amp rated and remember these are 3 phase motors. If youoen the pdf it shows all the part specs. CF30-25-04 is mine I believe.

David Falkner

07-17-2016, 1:26 PM

I used a 14ga 4 conductor version. That is 15amp rated and remember these are 3 phase motors. If youoen the pdf it shows all the part specs. CF30-25-04 is mine I believe.

Ah, that makes more sense. The link had the #8 AWG in the URL and I thought when I saw the specs in the PDF - Wow, that's a large cable! Thanks!

David Falkner

07-17-2016, 2:23 PM

I used a 14ga 4 conductor version. That is 15amp rated and remember these are 3 phase motors. If youoen the pdf it shows all the part specs. CF30-25-04 is mine I believe.

Mike - just thought about something... Is this cable shielded and does it need to be?
Thanks!
David

David Falkner

07-18-2016, 9:25 PM

Busy day but managed to get three of the motors mounted and belts tensioned. I'm waiting on a spacer and a coupler to mount the fourth motor, also waiting on the spindle mount, all from Nate. He just found out about the spacer today but the other things should be here any day.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/017%20-%20Motor%20mounted_zpsotoj5nur.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/018%20-%20Motor%20mounted_zpspcjokqj6.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/019%20-%20Motor%20mounted_zpsgggkfodd.jpg

Mike Heidrick

07-19-2016, 5:55 PM

I went out and got a piece I used. This is Igus Chainflex CF31 15 04 and yes it is shielded. This is real deal linear motion designed tray cable.
Specifications

Application
:
For power and AC motors with variable frequency drives (VFD)

Cable Type
:
Twisted

Color
:
Gray

Color, Jacket
:
Anthracite Gray

Diameter, Outer, Nominal
:
0.49 "

Material
:
Copper (Conductor), PVC (Jacket)

Material, Conductor
:
Bare Copper

Material, Insulation
:
TPE

Material, Jacket
:
Polyvinylchloride

Material, Shield
:
Copper

Number of Conductors
:
4 Cond

Shielding
:
Overall Braid

Standards
:
cULus, UL AWM 2570, CE CEI 20-20, VDE 0250

Stranding
:
4×1.5

Temperature, Operating
:
-5 to +70 °C (Continuous Flexing)

Temperature, Rating
:
-5 to +70 °C

Wire, AWG
:
16

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/CNC%20Extruder/IMG_20160719_163149_zpskopw4wf0.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/BloomingtonMike/media/CNC%20Extruder/IMG_20160719_163149_zpskopw4wf0.jpg.html)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/CNC%20Extruder/IMG_20160719_163601_zpstv4hcgag.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/BloomingtonMike/media/CNC%20Extruder/IMG_20160719_163601_zpstv4hcgag.jpg.html)

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/CNC%20Extruder/IMG_20160719_164025_zpsnv4xsrbu.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/BloomingtonMike/media/CNC%20Extruder/IMG_20160719_164025_zpsnv4xsrbu.jpg.html)

ed vitanovec

07-21-2016, 12:12 AM

David Falkner

07-21-2016, 7:05 AM

I am really interested in these CNC machines and spoke to the guy once, has not returned any of my calls since 1.5 weeks ago. I was wondering what width of pallet was your machine on, was it 48" wide?

52" wide by 63" long. Send Nate an email - sales@finelineautomation.com. He works a full time job during the day and does this on nights and weekends so he is sometimes hard to reach.

ed vitanovec

07-21-2016, 11:52 PM

Nate did send me an email. The 4 x 4 is massive size and weight.

David Falkner

07-22-2016, 6:54 AM

Nate did send me an email. The 4 x 4 is massive size and weight.

Good. I can only imagine how stout that must be but it is a seriously rigid machine and that's what I wanted. There's no way a 4 x 4 would fit in my shop or I would have opted for that one.

Mike Heidrick

07-24-2016, 7:39 PM

Any more wired up or built?

David Falkner

07-24-2016, 9:27 PM

Any more wired up or built?

I wish! The spindle mount shipped today via 2-day so I should have it Tuesday. I did pick up the 18/4 shielded cable for wiring the stepper motors, though. But I can't wire those until I get my enclosure build and on the stand. Though it likely wasn't necessary I readjusted all the moving parts to my liking for tolerances and tightened all the bolts. In other words, nothing worthy of posting... ;)

Mike Heidrick

07-26-2016, 12:22 AM

Some parts to consider
Coolant for the spindle
Leak proof disconnects for your coolant hose
Flow indicator inline with coolant hose
Wiring for the fans on your radiator/pumpvassembly
Kentcnc dudt shoe
Few er20 collets

David Falkner

07-26-2016, 8:26 AM

Some parts to consider
Coolant for the spindle - I've seen various suggestions from RV coolant to straight antifreeze to nothing needed at all. What do you use?
Leak proof disconnects for your coolant hose - I had just planned to use the fittings that came on the spindle, hadn't thought about changing them out. Can you point me in the right direction for leak proof connectors?
Flow indicator inline with coolant hose - I've seen those and that seems like a true necessity.
Wiring for the fans on your radiator/pumpvassembly - Have you found a radiator to be necessary?
Kentcnc dust shoe - That's a nice looking dust shoe, well thought out.
Few er20 collets - I have a set from 1mm to 13mm in 1mm increments plus the one that came with the spindle so that ought to be covered.

Thanks for the tips, Mike! I just checked tracking on the spindle mount and while I thought it would be here today it looks like tomorrow is the day. Moving forward!

David Falkner

07-27-2016, 10:06 AM

Gary Campbell

07-27-2016, 10:48 AM

Malcolm McLeod

07-27-2016, 11:30 AM

Quick question - I see VFD's mounted inside panels/enclosures and others mounted away from the machine on a wall or column; which is better? Do they need to be on a wall or column away from the machine for heat and vibration reasons, quick access to the control panel, etc., or is it just personal preference?

Lots of factors to consider:
What are the temperature operating limits for your VFD?
What is the expected ambient high temperature at the panel location in shop? (while VFD is operating)
How many heat producing devices in the panel? (VFDs, xfrmrs, power supplies, etc.)
Does the panel have any cooling provision? (A/C, powered vents, convection vents)
How big is the panel? (larger surface area can dissipate more heat)
If VFD is mounted external to panel, will it's heat sinks/fan get coated in dust?

Visit Hoffman Enclosures website (no affiliation) and they have loading/sizing calculator that can help.

Or for easy option, once in steady-state operation, you can place a thermometer in the panel (near top) and check to see if you are near the temperature limit for devices in the panel. If at or above any limits, move a device out (either the biggest heat generator, or the one with lowest heat tolerance). Or, look at panel coolers - - see Hoffman or Rittal.

Edit: I just remembered working with an enclosure where the manufacturer had un-bolted the heat sink (fins) from several devices, then drilled thru the enclosure's back wall in matching pattern. They then placed the heat sinks outside the enclosure, but still bolted up snug to the respective parent device inside. (The back panel in the enclosure was not installed in this area.) Conduction being more efficient than convection, most of the heat went thru the enclosure wall and into the heat sinks - outside the enclosure. ...Something to keep in mind?

David Falkner

07-27-2016, 11:54 AM

David...
If you can adhere to the clearance specs from the VFD and assuming the control cabinet has ample cooling, my preference is to mount them inside the control box. That said, problems can be created by EMF with some lesser cost components and possibly controls that seem to be more susceptible than others.

Thanks, Gary! I'm using the ESS, Keling digital stepper drivers, and shielded cable to the steppers. The enclosure will have at least one cooling fan, maybe two. I understand EMF isn't as big an issue with the ESS.

David Falkner

07-27-2016, 12:18 PM

Lots of factors to consider:
What are the temperature operating limits for your VFD?
What is the expected ambient high temperature at the panel location in shop? (while VFD is operating)
How many heat producing devices in the panel? (VFDs, xfrmrs, power supplies, etc.)
Does the panel have any cooling provision? (A/C, powered vents, convection vents)
How big is the panel? (larger surface area can dissipate more heat)
If VFD is mounted external to panel, will it's heat sinks/fan get coated in dust?

Visit Hoffman Enclosures website (no affiliation) and they have loading/sizing calculator that can help.

Or for easy option, once in steady-state operation, you can place a thermometer in the panel (near top) and check to see if you are near the temperature limit for devices in the panel. If at or above any limits, move a device out (either the biggest heat generator, or the one with lowest heat tolerance). Or, look at panel coolers - - see Hoffman or Rittal.

Thanks for the reply, Malcolm!

Our shop is climate controlled, so when it's in the high 90's or low 100's outside with 80% humidity the shop is in the mid to high 70's at 40% humidity. Same for the winter - 20's or 30's outside and mid 60's inside at about the same humidity.

The panel will have one 5v and two 48v power supplies. Unless the stepper drivers and ESS create heat, of which I doubt, then that should be all.

I'll use at least one, maybe two cooling fans. Given that the air is in the 70's in the shop one will probably suffice.

There is some dust but I have an air circulator with filter plus DC system to use on the CNC and other tools. The dust is minimal except on the rare occasion I need to use the table saw more than a couple of minutes.

In my plastics injection molding years I used Hoffman all the time - good enclosures. But I'm trying to stick to a budget so I'm thinking of using an old desktop tower computer case for my enclosure. My plan is to take that apart today and see if it's large enough for everything. It also has a cooling fan and vents built in so that just might do the trick. I can shield it from dust pretty easily.

I have an infrared thermometer so it will be easy to open the panel and shoot the components to track heat. But it just might be easier to mount the VFD externally.

David Falkner

07-27-2016, 2:11 PM

The spindle mount just arrived. I'm now 5 minutes closer to finishing - LOL! That's all it took to mount this, so while I can't run without it I figure I've only gained 5 minutes. ;)

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/020%20-%20Spindle%20mounted_zpsomjry5lf.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/021%20-%20Spindle%20mounted_zpsuahqdjbw.jpg

ed vitanovec

07-27-2016, 7:02 PM

That mount looks really nice, is it part of the frame kit?

David Falkner

07-27-2016, 9:09 PM

That mount looks really nice, is it part of the frame kit?

Thanks, Ed, it does look nice - I agree! It was extra but it is definitely stout. I think Nate does it as extra in the event you already have one or want a different one. This one is 100mm to accommodate the 3kW spindle.

David Falkner

07-27-2016, 11:33 PM

The screw caps also came in with the spindle mount and I had time tonight after church to put those on - 72 of them! That took a lot longer than mounting the spindle, for sure. But it will keep dust out of the screw holes and help lengthen the life of the bearings. After I put them in I dressed each one down to make sure nothing was sticking up proud of the surface.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/022%20-%20Screw%20caps_zpspqcepj0y.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/023%20-%20Screw%20caps_zpsabocfavs.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/024%20-%20Screw%20caps_zpsm9eiuiu9.jpg

David Falkner

07-29-2016, 4:57 PM

Well, bummer... I am all set to wire the enclosure this weekend and my box arrived on time from Amazon, as usual. However, for the first time in a long time they sent the wrong item. I ordered a 16x16x8 enclosure and they sent a 20x24x8 box. That would be ok if it would fit but it is way too large and I'm gonna have to send it back. I'd have to modify the stand or mount it somewhere off the machine for this to work for me and I don't wish to do either of those.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/025%20-%20Wrong%20enclosure_zps7ajezjif.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/026%20-%20Wrong%20enclosure_zpsjzkenwtq.jpg

David Falkner

07-31-2016, 4:05 PM

Well, the 16x16x8 enclosure came in today from Amazon and it appears God was watching out for me via Amazon shipping the 24x20x8 enclosure on Friday. I typically plan to the last little detail but on the enclosure choice I never laid out all the components, just assumed 16x16x8 would be sufficient. Man, was I wrong!! So I'm keeping the larger (wrong) one sent on Friday and shipping back the smaller one.

I loosely laid out the components on the back plate and there's no way this would have ever fit on the smaller one -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/029%20-%20Enclosure%20layout_zps7so7vnda.jpg

David Falkner

08-01-2016, 9:36 PM

The spacer for the Z axis motor came in today along with the correct 14mm flex mount so now that's complete (except wiring) -

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/030%20-%20Z%20motor%20mounted_zpsr5rb76ls.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/031%20-%20Z%20motor%20mounted_zpshwigcnn1.jpg

This measurement doesn't mean anything but for scale it is 31" from the top of the motor to the bottom of the spindle nut -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/032%20-%20Z%20axis%20complete_zpssgqsnqt2.jpg

David Falkner

08-05-2016, 9:16 PM

More of the electronic components came in today but I am waiting on a 12V power supply (just ordered today due to a change in plans from the way I originally intended one component), a terminal strip, and a few connectors. I'll likely make a little platform for the 5V and place the 12V PSU under it to save some back plate space. I'll be sure to give it enough space for all to remain cool but there's no reason not to stack these.

The pushbutton switches are both momentary with the green start button being NO and the red mushroom button being NC. The circuit I have designed will close the relays and start the power supplies and fans with the green button but nothing else will run until directed by the controller software. If I install a manual jog then that would work, though. The red button is not an emergency stop though it would have the same effect. It will cause the relays to open and there would be no power at all to the components. These pushbuttons will be at the opposite end of what I would call the 'front' of the machine so even though the red button is accessible I'll have other real e-stop switches located in better places for immediate use.

The relays in the bottom right corner will be for 120VAC and 240VAC. Only one of the contactors will be used on the 120V unless I decide to split the load and use both. The 240V relay will only be used for the VFD/Spindle. Both will open in the event of a power loss and that ensures the system won't restart on its own when power is restored.

I'm also allowing enough room for one more stepper driver for a future A axis installation. I'll go ahead and drill/tap the holes for it but will get the driver later. There will be a second and smaller fan to the right of the VFD and it will blow out. The bottom fan will blow in across the stepper drivers and power supplies.

So this is what it looks like in my initial layout, which is of course subject to change -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/033%20-%20Electronics%20initial%20layout_zps0qh5gylv.jpg

Mike Heidrick

08-05-2016, 9:58 PM

Mike Heidrick

08-05-2016, 10:04 PM

An example of din and wire trough

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/CNC%20Millport/PA300041_zps756ec008.jpg (http://s39.photobucket.com/user/BloomingtonMike/media/CNC%20Millport/PA300041_zps756ec008.jpg.html)

David Falkner

08-05-2016, 10:27 PM

You may want to double check your clearance requirements for the vfd. Maybe mount the power supplies both on edge.Also don't forget any space needed for the mount of connectors inside the enclosure that get passed through. Wire trough really cleans up wiring as does din rail and din connectors. Is that the ESS in the picture? Where is the BOB after the ESS?

Yours looks nice! Yes, that's an ESS but it's got the C25S terminal board from CNC4PC so I had not planned to use a BOB. I am familiar with DIN but doubt I'll go that route. And I am still considering whether or not to use Panduit...

I do need to double check the clearance requirements on the VFD - thanks!

David Falkner

08-11-2016, 9:25 AM

We've been out of town moving my daughter to New Orleans and I'm still waiting on a couple of things before I start wiring, but I did manage to build the little platform mount for the 5V power supply. I'll get the holes drilled and tapped in the aluminum angle so I can mount the power supply but have to wait before committing to placement on the panel until the other things come in. Also, I'm starting a project with some beautiful Curly Maple and Walnut so I'll be bouncing back and forth between getting this wired up and doing some woodworking.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/035%20-%205V%20power%20supply%20mount_zps3elcymit.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/036%20-%205V%20power%20supply%20mount_zpshpiz4ei9.jpg

ed vitanovec

08-11-2016, 11:27 PM

That is a sharp idea, nice work.

David Falkner

08-12-2016, 11:02 AM

That is a sharp idea, nice work.

Thanks, Ed! Just like in real estate, when you're land locked you have to go up - right! ;)

Brian Lamb

08-12-2016, 12:16 PM

I think, from the visual in the picture, if you had gone with the smaller unit on the bottom and the larger on top, your brackets would have been simplified, no notching for clearance.

David Falkner

08-12-2016, 2:55 PM

I think, from the visual in the picture, if you had gone with the smaller unit on the bottom and the larger on top, your brackets would have been simplified, no notching for clearance.

There's no fun in that - where's the challenge, the chance to show off some 'major' metalworking skills... LOL! :D

Thanks, Brian! You are correct, btw, it would have been easier.

David Falkner

08-18-2016, 12:27 PM

I may actually have all the components I need now to wire this up but in the meantime I decided to test my submersible water pump. It seemed fitting to do a little video so that's what I did and you may find it lightly entertaining, at my expense of course...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtf3bz_Ut7w

David Falkner

08-22-2016, 2:24 PM

It's time to wire the panel but I wanted to make certain there would be sufficient airflow on the stepper drivers, in particular the Z and future A (rotary axis) since they aren't right in front of the fan. This is a simple little test but it validates what I thought it would be like so the next step is laying out the hole placement for the components and then drilling/tapping for a bunch of 6-32 screws.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3gYdy5-j1Y

David Falkner

08-24-2016, 11:28 PM

I had some meetings today so I didn't get very far on the CNC build but I did manage to print the component layout and get it taped to the back panel. Yes, I realize this may be a bit over the top and yes I am a bit anal but this is just the way I like to do things... :cool:

With this printed and taped to the panel all I have to do now is drill where indicated, so even though it took a little time to draw this to scale and print it now my job is much easier. Plus, this gave me the opportunity for optimum placement without interference between components.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/037%20-%20Electrical%20panel%20layout_zpsyudh6wyq.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/038%20-%20Electricals%20in%20place_zpsnn4a7ts9.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/039%20-%20Stepper%20drivers%20on%20panel_zpsuphs5owe.jpg

One thing necessary was to make certain the switches didn't interfere with the PSU's or VFD since those come close to the door. But I drew these to scale, as well, and then opened and closed the door to verify nothing would hit on the inside.

Looking down from the top of the electrical enclosure with the door closed (PSU's and VFD are the dashed lines) -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/040%20-%20Top%20view%20with%20switches_zpsrndzzuvj.jpg

And with the door open -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/041%20-%20Top%20view%20door%20open_zpslh6szbly.jpg

Thanks for reading and following - more later!
David

David Falkner

08-26-2016, 9:16 AM

In preparation for drilling and tapping all the holes in the back panel I realized I had yet to drill the holes in the brackets for the 5V power supply. Simple task, right? Just stick it in the vise and drill 5/32" holes in the aluminum - a veritable walk in the park. Unless you don't clamp the vise very tight...

Oops! Drill bit grabbed and slung this across the room -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/042%20-%20Oops%20-%20twisted%20bracket_zpsngz3lxmv.jpg

But I straightened it out, polished the new character marks out, and shot some lacquer on both pieces -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/043%20-%20Straightened%20and%20lacquered%20bracket_zpsqla z1mo3.jpg

Lots of holes drilled and tapped, ready for components -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/044%20-%20Back%20panel%20holes%20drilled%20and%20tapped_z pspsatavoa.jpg

Components mounted -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/045%20-%20Components%20mounted%20to%20back%20panel_zpsfgp zgfok.jpg

More to come!
Thanks for following,
David

Paul Lawrence

08-27-2016, 7:35 AM

So, David, when will the repairs to your hand be "straightened out?" :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PS. Been there, done that!

David Falkner

08-27-2016, 8:17 AM

So, David, when will the repairs to your hand be "straightened out?" :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

PS. Been there, done that!

Close, Paul, oh so close! I actually gave a moment of thought to holding the bracket in my hand to drill the small hole. Not one of my brighter moves either way - LOL!

Mike Heidrick

08-28-2016, 7:24 PM

I think it looks awesome. Great job!

David Falkner

08-28-2016, 10:15 PM

I think it looks awesome. Great job!

Thanks, Mike! It's also a fun job :D

David Falkner

08-28-2016, 10:26 PM

Here's a topic that is likely easy to answer but I suspect there are folks on both sides of this fence: I have two 48V power supplies, 10.4 amp, and we are using four 5.5 amp NEMA 34 stepper motors. I thought it would be a good idea for load balancing to put Z and one Y on one power supply and X and the other Y on the other power supply. My thinking is that if movement is only in the Y direction then the load will be split between the two power supplies rather than all coming from one. Obviously if movement is circular or off the straight line Y axis then at least 3 motors will be engaged at the same time, sometimes all four.

So is that a regular, accepted thing or should both Y steppers be powered by the same PSU?

Thanks in advance!
David

Mike Heidrick

08-29-2016, 10:49 AM

Brian Lamb

08-29-2016, 11:04 AM

Definitely don't have much experience in the router side of things, but if you are driving two axis motors for one axis, wouldn't you want both of them on the same drives and power supply? For example, if one side fails and the other is still driving, wouldn't that try to tear the machine apart? If I have an axis failure, I would prefer both motors driving that axis shut down together.... at least that's the way my mind thinks about it.

David Falkner

08-29-2016, 12:11 PM

Your Y axis stepper drivers and the power supplies do not care what they are hooked too. Only reason to I would keep them together is if you lost one power supply then I would want both axis to not be powered.

Thanks, Mike. That is a consideration, certainly. It would definitely not work very efficiently! ;)

Definitely don't have much experience in the router side of things, but if you are driving two axis motors for one axis, wouldn't you want both of them on the same drives and power supply? For example, if one side fails and the other is still driving, wouldn't that try to tear the machine apart? If I have an axis failure, I would prefer both motors driving that axis shut down together.... at least that's the way my mind thinks about it.

Thanks, Brian. Each motor has its own driver, so there are 4 motors and 4 drivers (soon to be 5 motors and 5 drivers).
_____________________________________

Here's my thought process (scary, I realize...) - My initial design has the A axis primarily on the front of the machine parallel to the X axis for short stock, say 15"-18", but what I've designed will also mount 90° from that and be parallel to the Y axis for longer stock to take advantage of the 4' length of the machine frame.

However, most of the A axis motion will be in small increments or indexing as the X or Y moves along the length of the stock. While it may be necessary on occasion to turn the A axis in continuous motion, like a lathe, I just don't see that being the norm. And if that becomes necessary I would think it to be low speed and low load so it shouldn't even be pulling the full current draw for the A axis stepper motor. For that reason I thought splitting the load for the Y steppers would be good.

I could simplify all this by just placing A along the Y axis for the maximum length stock and just forget about having two configurations for A...

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/049%20-%20A%20axis%20along%20Y_zpsg8zol9s2.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/048%20-%20A%20axis%20along%20X_zpsj61qdigz.jpg

Another thought is I can simply move the two terminals for powering the A stepper driver, as needed, from one power supply to the next in about two minutes. At this time I don't know how often I'll use the A axis so it isn't yet an issue but I have one soon to be frequent customer asking if I'll be able to do any routing on curved or round stock and if I'm able to do that then he's going to want 12-15 items in Walnut every month. If what he wants is short enough to use the A configuration along the X axis then he's going to keep me busy enough to just leave it there and manage the power supplies as needed. Decisions, decisions...

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/050%20-%20Power%20supply%20terminals_zpsosfmm8hx.jpg

Mike Heidrick

08-29-2016, 12:21 PM

Malcolm McLeod

08-29-2016, 12:24 PM

Perhaps look at redundancy in your power supplies? For example, add a 3rd power supply and wire all of them to a DC buss. The buss feeds all of the axes, etc.. If one fails, the other two can carry the entire system.

Assuming the P/S's have a status relay, you can do 1 of 2 things:
1) Wire an alarm/beacon to the status relays (in parallel) to alert you to P/S failure. You can then take manual steps to mitigate the loss; or,
2) Wire all of the relays in series, then feed signal to your controller. Program the controller so that if you lose a P/S, it could automatically terminate your process.

Gary Campbell

08-29-2016, 2:31 PM

David...
The simplest, and possibly the best, option would be to connect the 2 power supply DC out terminals together. This would balance the load and allow any or all drives to access the available power.

David Falkner

08-29-2016, 3:18 PM

When cutting you will not be maxing any of these stepper drivers at all, the speed need wont be there. Even if one was fat it would be highly unlikely you will be concurently maxing the amperages on A and X anyway so it wont really matter. Hook them up and get cutting. Now THAT's what I need to do!!

If you want options put a two way selectable switch on and flop to each power supply config as needed or better yet just give A its own power supply and be done.

That was my thinking on the use of the rotary axis, Mike. This won't be trying to get maximum cut depth and speed, high rapids, etc. I have extra opto-isolated relays available on the little 4-channel board just above the ESS so I could do this electronically pretty easily.

Perhaps look at redundancy in your power supplies? For example, add a 3rd power supply and wire all of them to a DC buss. The buss feeds all of the axes, etc.. If one fails, the other two can carry the entire system.

Assuming the P/S's have a status relay, you can do 1 of 2 things:
1) Wire an alarm/beacon to the status relays (in parallel) to alert you to P/S failure. You can then take manual steps to mitigate the loss; or,
2) Wire all of the relays in series, then feed signal to your controller. Program the controller so that if you lose a P/S, it could automatically terminate your process.

Good ideas, Malcolm - thanks!

David...
The simplest, and possibly the best, option would be to connect the 2 power supply DC out terminals together. This would balance the load and allow any or all drives to access the available power.

I like that, Gary. I've read that some power supplies can't/shouldn't be connected in parallel; I wonder if these are ok being hooked that way...?

ed vitanovec

08-29-2016, 10:18 PM

your project is looking really nice. What will you do for a top?

David Falkner

08-29-2016, 10:33 PM

your project is looking really nice. What will you do for a top?

Thanks, Ed!

I'll start with two layers of 3/4" MDF and learn on that. I may add T-tracks at some point or recessed threaded inserts but may not do that right away. What do you recommend, Ed?

Paul Lawrence

08-30-2016, 5:59 AM

... I've read that some power supplies can't/shouldn't be connected in parallel ...

Paralleling power supplies can be different than paralleling batteries, because batteries don't have voltage regulation circuits and have more internal resistance to absorb the differences in their outputs.

The lower voltage (slightly) power supply's regulation circuit may be causing the other's output to go up to compensate and vice-versa, but that depends on the supply's output circuit. You won't know unless you can isolate one and measure its output current.

Another situation to consider is both supplys powering up at the same time. One may be at zero volts while the other one is at its regulated voltage. The one that isn't on yet will become the load for the one that is fully on (and everything in between.) This will activate protection circuits in the supply's output section.

You could/should contact the manufacturer to get their advice, or you could roll-the-dice and try it! :rolleyes:

At any rate, I've paralleled power supplies before (and in the old days of simpler designs) by adding a low-ohm high-watt resistor in the outputs of each supply then connecting the resistors together. This way the resistor loads will absorb any differences in the supply's output. This resistor is called a "ballast resistor." Sometime this resistor was actually a diode.

It isn't a simple problem and there isn't a simple solution, but some power supply manufacturers design this capability into their supplies. Some supplies can have this capability by simply using a "remote sense" connection at the point where the supplies are paralleled. This gets a bit more technical to explain and probably better to look it up elsewhere.

PS. High output car stereo amp nuts used to have to do this to get double the power out so they could get deaf faster.

David Falkner

08-30-2016, 7:38 AM

Paralleling power supplies can be different than paralleling batteries, because batteries don't have voltage regulation circuits and have more internal resistance to absorb the differences in their outputs.

The lower voltage (slightly) power supply's regulation circuit may be causing the other's output to go up to compensate and vice-versa, but that depends on the supply's output circuit. You won't know unless you can isolate one and measure its output current.

Another situation to consider is both supplys powering up at the same time. One may be at zero volts while the other one is at its regulated voltage. The one that isn't on yet will become the load for the one that is fully on (and everything in between.) This will activate protection circuits in the supply's output section.

You could/should contact the manufacturer to get their advice, or you could roll-the-dice and try it! :rolleyes:

At any rate, I've paralleled power supplies before (and in the old days of simpler designs) by adding a low-ohm high-watt resistor in the outputs of each supply then connecting the resistors together. This way the resistor loads will absorb any differences in the supply's output. This resistor is called a "ballast resistor." Sometime this resistor was actually a diode.

It isn't a simple problem and there isn't a simple solution, but some power supply manufacturers design this capability into their supplies. Some supplies can have this capability by simply using a "remote sense" connection at the point where the supplies are paralleled. This gets a bit more technical to explain and probably better to look it up elsewhere.

PS. High output car stereo amp nuts used to have to do this to get double the power out so they could get deaf faster.

Thanks, Paul! That's some good info, I knew some of that but some is new to me. I think I'll pass on doing the parallel connection and just see for a while how everything works.

I like your PS! :cool:

David

Malcolm McLeod

08-30-2016, 8:25 AM

David Falkner

08-30-2016, 8:55 AM

Paul is correct that some low end power supplies won't play nice in parallel.

David, I didn't pick up on the voltage or wattage of your P/S's, but if you do decide to pursue parallel connections here is a source for 'redundancy module (https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/portal/us?1dmy&urile=wcm:path:/usen/web/main/products/subcategory_pages/redundancy_modules_p-22-02/4f8b0416-f42c-4ed2-b1f4-492fa9bd89bb)'. I have no relationship with Phoenix Contact - other than frequent user of full spectrum of their panel-build products (power supplies and redundancy modules included). They make good stuff.

Thanks, Malcom - that's good info. The PSU's for the steppers are 500 watt, 48V, 10.4 amp each and they're from Stepper Online (http://omc-stepperonline.kancart.com/item_detail/168-Switching-Power-Supply-500W-48V-10-4A-for-CNC-Router-115V-230V-S-500-48#!detail).

Malcolm McLeod

08-30-2016, 9:28 AM

... 500 watt, 48V, 10.4 amp each ...

At 48VDC options start narrowing quickly, but p/n 2907720 or 2320160 would work. Phoenix Contact is German, so price will probably be scary, but I've never had one fail under warranty.

I've applied for name change too.;)

Mike Heidrick

08-30-2016, 11:50 AM

David Falkner

08-30-2016, 12:05 PM

At 48VDC options start narrowing quickly, but p/n 2907720 or 2320160 would work. Phoenix Contact is German, so price will probably be scary, but I've never had one fail under warranty.

I've applied for name change too.;)

You can withdraw the name change request... :eek: I guess I was reading too many posts at once - sorry!

I'm a stickler for getting names and spelling correct because most people want to put a 'u' in Falkner but it never had it, never will.

David Falkner

08-30-2016, 12:10 PM

David, what's the max amp draw of your stepper drivers again? By the time you get to anything even remotely close to max you will be at the end of your axis. Put X and A on one and Ys on another. Done. You don't need load balancing.

5.5 amps. I also don't think I'll hit that unless something stalls. If that happens bigger issues are at hand, I would think. Should I put Z with the X and A?

Thanks, Mike!

ed vitanovec

08-30-2016, 10:14 PM

David,

The MDF is a good start along with T-Tracks. You can buy T-Tracks in bulk on EBAY. Another choice would be MDO, its a waterproof laminated plywood with Kraft face on both sides. It is very stable and is used for concrete forms in freeway column construction.

Regards!
Ed

David Falkner

08-30-2016, 10:32 PM

David Falkner

08-30-2016, 10:33 PM

Got a little further today on the build but not by leaps and bounds... The proximity sensors weren't going to be in the right location so I drilled new holes, 31/64", and that was difficult in this stress relieved steel. That is some hard stuff! It took about half an hour to drill 3 holes and I had to sharpen the drill bit about 4 times.

Anyway, I decided to move the enclosure to the front of the machine instead of on the rear where I had initially planned to mount it. I just couldn't get comfortable with it being on the opposite end of the machine. Tomorrow I'll drill the holes in the stand and get it mounted though I'll have to take it back off to drill all the holes for cable entry.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/052%20-%20Enclosure%20location%20finalized_zpsd5gcjcuu.jp g

Mike Heidrick

08-31-2016, 5:18 PM

Should I put Z with the X and A?

!

I sure would. I have four 3.5 amp G50 drivers (a G540) using nema23s on one Meanwell 48V 12.5 amp power supply. (X, Y, A slaved to Y, and Z) - zero issues ever. Shy of crazy 3d work you will not even use A and Z at the same time ever. Heck you will barely use X and A and even if you do it will not be at full load.

Mike Heidrick

08-31-2016, 5:23 PM

Did you consider putting that controller on the side and mounting your E chain above it and then make a 90 degree at the gantry and run the X echain down that? Ion the side will require the least length of cables. The side is prob the most efficient for running your cables. In front you are blocking places to verticaly mount or gain access to your vertical mount. If you want an estop or power buttones in front, fine move those and mount them in front out of the way but you should not be in your cabinet much.

David Falkner

08-31-2016, 9:40 PM

I sure would. I have four 3.5 amp G50 drivers (a G540) using nema23s on one Meanwell 48V 12.5 amp power supply. (X, Y, A slaved to Y, and Z) - zero issues ever. Shy of crazy 3d work you will not even use A and Z at the same time ever. Heck you will barely use X and A and even if you do it will not be at full load.

That's kind of what I thought, Mike. Even though the combined max current of two steppers is .6 amps more than each power supply's rating I didn't figure they would ever see that max current. And if it did it would be momentary.

Did you consider putting that controller on the side and mounting your E chain above it and then make a 90 degree at the gantry and run the X echain down that? Ion the side will require the least length of cables. The side is prob the most efficient for running your cables. In front you are blocking places to verticaly mount or gain access to your vertical mount. If you want an estop or power buttones in front, fine move those and mount them in front out of the way but you should not be in your cabinet much.

It was a brief consideration but I don't have any room on that side. I have decided to put the computer on that side but it's thinner and I don't have to open the panel on it. If I need to get into the computer the side slides off but if I need to open the enclosure there's no room to get in there to do any work. And I can't move the machine further away from my work bench. I have the proverbial size 12 foot in a size 10 shoe and I just have to make it work. Btw, all of what you said makes sense if I could move the machine away from the work bench, but...

It's 14" between the work bench and stepper and the enclosure would stick out another 3". That would leave me 11" clearance and the door to the enclosure is 20" wide so that just won't work, not to mention needing to get up to the work bench to use it as I often do -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/054%20-%20Right%20side%20clearance_zps9deawr92.jpg

ed vitanovec

08-31-2016, 10:42 PM

David,

My friend buys his MDO at a specialty lumber store.

David Falkner

08-31-2016, 11:19 PM

David,

My friend buys his MDO at a specialty lumber store.

I checked at Lowe's today and they don't have it nor can they get it. I didn't have time to check Home Depot but maybe tomorrow I can check around. Thanks, Ed!

David Falkner

09-01-2016, 7:13 PM

I've laid out my template for drilling holes for connectors on the side of the enclosure and hope to get to that tonight. Lots of holes!

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/055%20-%20Preparing%20to%20drill%20for%20connectors%20and %20fan_zpsayozovbj.jpg

David Falkner

09-01-2016, 9:28 PM

One of those times when it's really nice to have a floor model drill press!

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/056%20-%20Nice%20to%20have%20a%20floor%20model%20drill%20 press_zpsl5dgfnml.jpg

Bruce Page

09-01-2016, 9:46 PM

Is the case steel or aluminum? If aluminum, those holes would be a perfect job for a Unibit.

David Falkner

09-01-2016, 10:49 PM

Is the case steel or aluminum? If aluminum, those holes would be a perfect job for a Unibit.

No, ugh!! It's 16 gauge steel, so 1/16" thick and fairly hard, at that. I wish it was aluminum, though. I have a set of Greenlee punches for the 1/2" conduit holes (7/8" dia.) but the holes for the 4 and 5 pin connectors are 5/8" so I'm going to have to get creative on those.

David Falkner

09-02-2016, 5:12 PM

I used a homemade 5/8" brad point drill bit to cut the holes for the 4 and 5 pin connectors and drilled a 3/8" hole to use the Greenlee chassis punch on the 1/2" conduit holes (7/8" dia.). The friend who brought his engine lift over to lift this onto the stand has the Greenlee hydraulic kit and that's pretty nice. For these small holes I just used my manual Greenlee although I have the ball bearing version so it's a piece of cake on this 16 gauge steel. I have some larger holes to make for switches in the door and will probably use the hydraulic punch on those.

Greenlee hydraulic punch -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/057%20-%20Greenlee%20hydraulic%20punch_zpsi8mkdh6l.jpg

Greenlee manual punch -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/058%20-%20Greenlee%20manual%20punch_zpsysoyv7vl.jpg

All connectors set into place -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/059%20-%20Connectors%20set%20in%20place_zpspsmzcw71.jpg

More later - thanks for following and commenting!!
David

Bruce Page

09-02-2016, 5:57 PM

You should get some label decals made up for the box. That would be cool.
That punch is way better than any Unibit!

David Falkner

09-02-2016, 7:10 PM

You should get some label decals made up for the box. That would be cool.
That punch is way better than any Unibit!

Yes, that punch is definitely next level stuff! Initially I will use matte finish clear labels that I print on my laser printer but may do something else later. For the switches on the front panel (door) I'm having custom legend plates cut by a laser shop. I'll probably get those done next week.

David Falkner

09-05-2016, 8:04 PM

Spent a little time on this Labor Day making a bracket and mounting a box for the main E-stop switch. I don't have any metal working tools other than a drill press so I'm pleased with the results of this little foray into metal working. This is a wet location single outlet box from Lowe's and since I had some Ferrari yellow I thought that would be a good color to paint the box. Then I baked it in the oven for a while at 170° and let it set - seems pretty tough. And I got suitably dressed down for smelling up the oven so I promised not to let it happen again (today)... :D

At some point after I get the CNC up and running I'll make little aluminum spacers to replace the 6 washers I used to space the bracket out far enough so it doesn't hit the proximity sensor. It's in close 'proximity' to the sensor but doesn't touch it... ;)

I'll have a second E-stop mounted in the same type box but the second one will be on a cable and free to move around.

Bracket back side slides over bolts that can be removed to put sand into the frame if I needed additional weight (like 500 pounds isn't heavy enough!!) or if I need to control resonance in the stepper motors -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/060%20-%20E-stop%20bracket_zpsgil1bzgv.jpg

I mounted this high enough that I don't think I'll accidentally lean into it with my hips or bump it walking by and because it's square 1/16" wall tubing it is very stout, doesn't budge when I hit it -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/061%20-%20E-stop%20switch%20bracket_zpsx5lh2zol.jpg

I'll bring the cable up from the open bottom of the tubing and into the box through this grommet to protect the cable from the aluminum edges.
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/062%20-%20E-stop%20box%20grommet_zpslmw3qond.jpg

Back side of the bracket and switch -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/063%20-%20E-stop%20rear%20view_zpsq0dsnths.jpg

Mike Heidrick

09-05-2016, 10:53 PM

For folks that like the greenlee hydraulic punch setup - The harbor freight hydraulic setup uses the greenlee punches right out of the box and is 1/4 the price.

Dave - you conside a VistaCNC P2S CNC pendant (cheaper on Ebay than their site BTW) by chance? Built in E-stop, a MPG (Machine Pulse Generator), as well as software and job control all on pendant.

ed vitanovec

09-05-2016, 11:33 PM

David,

Everything is looking very nice. A question about the bolt access for belt adjustment for the X axis, it looks like the z axis is in the way. Is there access to this bolt?

Regards!
Ed

David Falkner

09-06-2016, 7:53 AM

For folks that like the greenlee hydraulic punch setup - The harbor freight hydraulic setup uses the greenlee punches right out of the box and is 1/4 the price.

Dave - you consider a VistaCNC P2S CNC pendant (cheaper on Ebay than their site BTW) by chance? Built in E-stop, a MPG (Machine Pulse Generator), as well as software and job control all on pendant.

I've seen a few people using a pendant but haven't really embraced that yet, Mike. I have also seen some people using a PlayStation or Xbox type of wireless control and I would prefer wireless over wired but not planning on using either at this time - I just need to get this machine running! Ugh, every time I turn a corner I have to order something else or run to Lowe's. LOL! When I walk into Lowe's they say, 'Hi, David, welcome back!'

David,

Everything is looking very nice. A question about the bolt access for belt adjustment for the X axis, it looks like the z axis is in the way. Is there access to this bolt?

Regards!
Ed

Good catch, Ed. When the machine arrived it had an SHCS bolt and no, it wasn't accessible at all. But Nate sent a hex head bolt when he realized I wouldn't be able to get an Allen wrench into the SHCS bolt and has made the change on all the Saturn models at this point. It's easy now with either an open end or box end wrench.

David Falkner

09-06-2016, 9:39 PM

Started wiring the control panel - FINALLY!! I did a fair number of searches on proper wiring color code for the different voltages and flavors of electrical current on this panel - AC hot, AC switched hot, AC hot from another source, neutral, ground, DC, DC common, 120/240 single phase, three phase, etc. - and I'm here to tell you there are many, many different 'standards' depending on the type of panel, industry, environment, and lots of other variables. So I did the best I could for code, meaning I kept searching until I found one that closely matched the wire colors I had on hand and then modified 'the code' to fit the exact colors I had on hand. ;)

So yes, to those who may want to send me their version of 'proper', I am aware a small portion of what I've done may not be perfect so I can post the photos in B&W if that's better... :cool:

Somewhere under all this is a table saw that hasn't been used in a couple of weeks because it has become an electrical workbench -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/064%20-%20Table%20saw%20electrical%20bench_zpserzad7dw.jp g

Probably a little past half finished; ignore the temporary ties but I needed to keep some of these sort of grouped for running the other wires. The AC hot wires are 14 AWG, the DC and control wires are 18 AWG, and the wire ends have been tinned where they go into the C25S board on the ESS -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/065%20-%20Wiring%20in%20progress_zpsdppznaql.jpg

David Falkner

09-07-2016, 3:14 PM

After getting all the wiring completed for power on the panel it was time to test and see if all was good. Obviously there is still a lot to do; still have to wire the stepper motors, proximity sensors, fans, etc. but at this point I needed to know that my latching circuit held the contactor closed and that all the power supplies were at the right voltage and that the stepper drivers and ESS powered up ok.

So rather than just tell you that it worked I videoed the first power up so if something blew either I or the investigators could go back and see what happened (really was the first, no 'pre-test' before the video). Since the video I have adjusted all the power supplies to their correct voltage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv2ieJlFVGA

Paul Lawrence

09-07-2016, 10:47 PM

David Falkner

09-08-2016, 12:02 AM

In my world, I would have called that a "suicide" power up.

Too late for you, but I never hooked power supplies up unless they have been checked with nothing connected to the outputs. Just a lesson I've learned.

And it's a good lesson, Paul. I actually did put power to the PSU's right when they came in to make sure they weren't DOA but that was a couple of months ago. So I knew they would power up but this was the first time I had wires connected. It was a fairly well planned initial power up although I couldn't get past jumping when the contactor closed, partly because it was darker in the shop than it looked and I was blocking what little light there was coming in and partly because I knew it would startle me. I tested it later and put the wire in place before I powered it up so that was a bit safer and no jumping on my part.

Paul Lawrence

09-08-2016, 5:20 AM

I actually did put power to the PSU's right when they came in to make sure they weren't DOA

David, you sell yourself short in the video. Everything looks good!

The only thing that would be a negative now is if you bundled your wire with that spiral plastic crap the auto companies use. Not conducive to mistakes or repairs. :( Just use plastic ties ever-so-often. It won't really matter if the bundle bulges a little in places.

David Falkner

09-08-2016, 7:58 AM

David, you sell yourself short in the video. Everything looks good!

The only thing that would be a negative now is if you bundled your wire with that spiral plastic crap the auto companies use. Not conducive to mistakes or repairs. :( Just use plastic ties ever-so-often. It won't really matter if the bundle bulges a little in places.

Thanks, Paul!

So I guess I need to take back the fluorescent green and orange spiral wrap, huh? ;)

For a short while I considered a mix of old and new by using the black lacing from days gone by and then thought about using Panduit but finally decided instead to use black ties.

David Falkner

09-08-2016, 10:08 PM

Well, I finally made it to the switches for the door of the enclosure so I took my CorelDRAW file and headed over to my favorite laser shop, Bud's Trophy Case in Bossier City. They do excellent work and are so easy to work with - it's always a fun visit! I needed three switch plates cut and one label for the spindle hour meter. It took all of 10 minutes from loading the file to holding the finished items in my hand. There are a lot more things I could add to the door but for now this will work just fine.

If you've never seen a laser running then you'll enjoy the short video.

Next will be mounting the door and then wiring the switches. More later!!

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/066%20-%20Switches%20mounted_zps7bvidwhx.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KE4CcKnT-zo

David Falkner

09-10-2016, 8:43 PM

Today I spent all morning tilling up the flower beds and then early afternoon doing some video editing for a friend starting his YouTube channel with a song he performed; not so much time on the CNC build. But the EMI filters came in so I did manage to get those mounted and the load side wired. The upper filter is 120V and the lower filter is 240V. Everything will be labeled when I finish the wiring. Still have to mount the panel into the enclosure and wire the steppers, spindle, water pump, fans, etc.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/067%20-%20EMI%20filters%20added_zps7b0nhz5k.jpg

David Falkner

09-12-2016, 11:20 PM

Today I ran some ground wires on the panel, set the panel into the enclosure (still need to bolt it to the enclosure cabinet, hope I don't forget that little step), finalized how I am going to run the shielded cable to the stepper drivers, and managed to get the Z axis cable run before shutting down tonight. The biggest thing accomplished today was getting with the Hitachi dealer technician to verify the shielded cable connections to the VFD to take advantage of Modbus for controlling the spindle.

More to come - thanks for following along!
David

Stepper driver end of the cable -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/068%20-%20Stepper%20driver%20wiring_zpsptr8hazj.jpg

Connector end with shrink wrapped protection -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/069%20-%20Stepper%20driver%20wiring_zpszvjxzqnl.jpg

Cable run from side panel to Z axis stepper driver; the shield clamp is homemade from a 4-fuse block but works great to provide ground for the shield. I still need to run a bunch more of these cables/connectors for the other drivers and the proximity sensors, water pump, fans, etc. -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/070%20-%20Stepper%20driver%20wiring_zpszxxoczlf.jpg

David Falkner

09-13-2016, 7:37 PM

Today I got to the point where I could run the stepper motor cables to the stepper drivers, or at least from the 5-pin connectors on the enclosure to the drivers. As you can imagine this took a while because each wire end had to be properly tinned to ensure a good solder joint on the connector terminal, then placement with shrink wrap tubing in the small area of the connector, then run to the stepper driver with part of the insulation removed for the makeshift shield clamp for grounding. Anyway, it was a lot of tedious steps but was also a blast to do! I've said it before but until the wiring is complete and tested I won't clean up the grouping and tying of the wires, so they just have temporary ties in place right now.

You'll notice the top connector has green shrink wrap tubing and that's because that is the A rotary axis that will come later. I figured it was much easier to run the cable and do all the soldering now while I was in that mode. Oh, the other reason the shrink wrap is green is because I ran out of the correct size of black but my justification satisfies my OCD nature... LOL!

Next in line will be the proximity sensors and those will be done the same way as these stepper motor cables.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/071%20-%20Stepper%20cabling%20to%20drivers_zpszeo5rwkq.jp g

Paul Lawrence

09-13-2016, 10:38 PM

David Falkner

09-13-2016, 11:26 PM

David, in your photo, it doesn't look like you grounded either end of the shield.

For a cable's shield to work (assuming the shield isn't part of your functioning circuit), it needs to be grounded on one end only.

The idea is that any external voltages will induce current into the shield and not your functioning circuits. The grounded end shunts those currents off to ground.

EDIT: I probably would have grounded the end at the panel.

Hey Paul - thanks for checking up on me! They're grounded right in the center with my homemade, shop built shield clamp. I have verified they are grounded and when I finish these will be nylon tie wrapped into place so they don't move. Kind of hard to see but the insulation is stripped back and the clamps are directly on the foil and stranded drain wire and then the entire assembly is grounded back to the panel.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/072%20-%20Stepper%20shielded%20cable%20grounding_zpsyallr koz.jpg

Paul Lawrence

09-14-2016, 5:47 AM

I see that I didn't put "brain in gear" first! :D You even captioned the photo with the explanation!

As long as you have the real estate available, that is an ingenious solution, but not necessary for a cable that typically doesn't move. (Actually, you've added a failure point, but not really. :D)

In my totally failed comment, I referred to a solution for grounding a shield that is an INPUT. Your wiring is for for a high driver output. Your shielding would be grounded to try to protect inputs from within the box. The radiated fields will most likely be produced by a common wire, but in the case of stepper motors there isn't necessarily a "common." I've put high pulse current wires INSIDE copper tubing to reduce the radiated fields. Most likely not a problem in this case.

Your method is as good as any other. Good job and ingenious!

David Falkner

09-14-2016, 7:44 AM

David Falkner

09-15-2016, 1:00 AM

It was time to begin running wires from the door panel switches to the main panel in the enclosure so I ran a few and then tested to see how they would react when the door is opened and closed. The wires will be encapsulated in black plastic mesh that should adequately protect them from rubbing anything. I don't plan on opening the door often, though, so it's probably not as critical as some other pieces of the puzzle.

Here's a quick shot of the enclosure with the door attached and a couple of switches wired to the EMI filters -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/073%20-%20Testing%20wire%20locations%20from%20door_zpsnou bipwl.jpg

And here's a short but high action video of me closing the door - exciting stuff!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4U19yDti58

Paul Lawrence

09-15-2016, 6:02 AM

When you're done with this project, I want to see the video where you definitively show that the refer light goes off when the door is closed. :D

David Falkner

09-15-2016, 7:56 AM

When you're done with this project, I want to see the video where you definitively show that the refer light goes off when the door is closed. :D

LOL! Now that's funny!

Hmmmm... Now that you mention it, I do have an extra relay I can trigger to turn a light on when the door is opened - thanks for the idea, Paul. :D :cool:

David Falkner

09-16-2016, 10:33 PM

I didn't get to spend much time on the build today but did manage to get the bottom fan mounted. Also, a new 8-channel relay board came in so now I need to figure out where and how I'll mount that, may have to pull the panel back out to keep from getting shavings inside the box and next to conductors - I don't want any surprises when I power this up for real!

Bottom of the enclosure, fan guard, I'll probably build a small frame to put a finer filter over the inlet. This screen will not stop dust -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/074%20-%20Bottom%20fan%20mounted_zps7mf3agab.jpg

Looking at it from the inside, again I still am not finished with the wiring so lots of loose wires in there -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/075%20-%20Bottom%20fan%20mounted_zpsx89achv4.jpg

David Falkner

09-17-2016, 5:40 PM

It only took about 20 minutes to disconnect everything and get the panel out so it wasn't too bad at all. I'm really glad I took it out to drill and tap the holes; this would have been a mess inside the box. I shot a short video showing the testing of the 8-channel board and one proximity sensor. Now I have to build a bracket for the 4-channel board and make sure it's out of the way of everything else.

Using my analog meter, to me anyway, is so much easier to see open/close for continuity because the needle swing is just very obvious. With a digital meter I have to take my eyes off of what I'm working on and wait to see where the digits end up after a second but with my peripheral vision I can see the needle swing on the analog meter.

Anyway, now I have to finish the 4-channel relay bracket and then mount this back inside the box and then keep plugging away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5t-m8bQoNSo

David Falkner

09-17-2016, 10:19 PM

It may look like a simple task but this took about 4 hours total to accomplish; had to undo all the stepper driver wires and wires from the door (that I have yet to put back into place so make that 4.5 hours), take the VFD out (that I have yet to put back into place so make that 5 hours), take the panel out, drill & tap for the 8-channel relay, design and make the bracket for the 4-channel relay, drill & tap for that to mount, then mount everything making certain to use thread locker so all this stuff stays in place, and then run most of the wires back to their respective destinations.

Some of y'all could do this in way less time, I know, I know...

4-channel relay bracket -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/076%20-%204-channel%20relay%20bracket_zpslm5cv1am.jpg

New location for 4-channel relay almost looks like it was designed this way all along, well if you squint when you look at it maybe -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/077%20-%208-channel%204-channel%20relays%20in%20place_zpsj2rl6rye.jpg

Paul Lawrence

09-18-2016, 7:04 AM

David Falkner

09-18-2016, 8:43 AM

I think I would have added that 4 channel board onto a bare board that is "piggy backed" over the 8 channel board.

Perhaps there is some expected clearance problems from overhead?

Looks good when I squint and wear my rosy tint glasses. :D

You might also try closing one eye... ;)

Thanks, Paul! I tried it there but it blocked the LED's on the 8-channel board and full access to screw terminals. I didn't point out that the reason for adding the 8-channel board wasn't for additional relays but rather it is a 12Vdc board and the 4-channel is a 5Vdc board. My proximity sensors are 6V-36V so having a 12V board just makes it easier to connect the sensors. I could have gotten a 12V 4-channel and put them side by side but this gives me more relays to play with in the future. It also gave me another opportunity to do a little out of the box fabricating (for me). :cool:

David Falkner

09-22-2016, 10:50 PM

It's been a couple of days since I posted my progress on the build but I haven't been idle, not even close. I just didn't want to bore y'all with small steps so here's a significant advance in progress - all stepper and proximity panel mount connectors are complete! If you've never done this I can tell you it takes a while, especially if you plan on doing it neatly and with attention to detail and consistency. Even if you do this all the time it still takes a while. I think the bread wrapper twist ties are a nice touch but when I finally get the wiring finished I'll go with something more traditional like nylon tie wraps.

Steppers on the left, proximity on the right (upper and lower when the enclosure is mounted) -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/078%20-%20Wiring%20almost%20finished_zpsgv63wosg.jpg

Outside of the enclosure, still have a few left to do -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/079%20-%20Connectors%20mostly%20finished_zpswmgj4ddj.jpg

Lights off in the shop and powered up - all looks good at this point!
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/080%20-%20Powered%20up%20test_zpsn0eut1gt.jpg

Bruce Page

09-22-2016, 11:00 PM

This is going to be one slick home built!
What's your guess on when you'll be cutting chips?

David Falkner

09-22-2016, 11:22 PM

Two weeks, maybe...?? I should finish the enclosure this weekend but then I still have to mount it, run the stepper, spindle, and proximity cabling, run the water lines, mount the spoil board, build a cart for the computer... ok, three weeks. Glad you like it, Bruce!

David Falkner

09-23-2016, 6:57 AM

Forgot about configuring Mach4... never done that, either. I'll be up and running this year, for sure!! :rolleyes:

Bruce Page

09-23-2016, 12:49 PM

I don't know anything about Mach4 but I can't imagine you will have much trouble figuring it out.
My machine runs on WinCNC and the basics are pretty straight forward.

David Falkner

09-23-2016, 4:09 PM

I don't know anything about Mach4 but I can't imagine you will have much trouble figuring it out.
My machine runs on WinCNC and the basics are pretty straight forward.

That makes two of us, Bruce. I don't know anything about Mach4, either... :rolleyes:

David Falkner

09-23-2016, 4:10 PM

I thought with all the soldering I'm doing on this CNC build and have done through the years, coupled with some friends who've told me they have issues with soldering, that I would do a Public Service Video. Disclaimer - I am not claiming to be an expert or in any way 'the' soldering guru nor have I covered every facet of soldering but I have been doing a good job at it for over 40 years so with that out of the way, here's my slightly over 9 minute video. I hope this helps any who may have issues with this little task. Kudos to you for watching the entire video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep4AIFeoYA8

David Falkner

09-23-2016, 10:55 PM

I shot a quick video tonight testing the fans and components powered up - sounds cool to me!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSyYBVJCboA

David Falkner

09-24-2016, 6:40 PM

I thought it would be good to see how much current draw I had before connecting the stepper motors. Everything is now wired inside the panel except the VFD and connections for the E-Stop switches. Current draw at this point is about 0.5 amp and after 10 minutes of running everything was cool inside the box (as I expected it to be).

The E-Stop switch connections will be next and then the VFD. I'm debating whether to pull the stepper motors off the machine and bench test them all at once. I'll probably do that because I mounted them just to make sure everything worked correctly for rack & pinion tension and that everything lined up for the mounting. They all need to come back off so I can use thread lock on them anyway so I'll probably bench test them. That will be a good opportunity to begin setting up the ESS and Mach4.

Here's the short video of testing the current draw -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT0S9SE8BKw

David Falkner

09-25-2016, 11:18 PM

I had a little time tonight after church to begin cleaning up the wiring and started with the door, hopefully I'll get the rest of it tomorrow. The incoming power lines to the switch and ground are temporary and will be similarly secured when the time comes to run those lines.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/081%20-%20Door%20wiring%20cleaned%20up_zpsrgkxe1ty.jpg

David Falkner

09-26-2016, 3:25 PM

Well, it didn't take long for me to decide the first cleaning up of wiring on the door wasn't up to par, so I redid it this morning. I think this looks much better and doesn't have the couple of wires hanging loosely around the switches. One thing I did was to replace the connectors on the start button with right angle versions so they don't stick so far down into the enclosure when the door is closed. They weren't in danger of hanging on anything but I just didn't care for the way they looked. Also, I cleaned up the wiring on the panel so except for the 240V and VFD it looks like the wiring is complete.

Just for curiosity I powered this up and let it run almost two hours so I could check the temperature of components and there's wasn't enough rise in temp to even notice - about 2° in some places. I'm certain this will change when I connect stepper motors and the spindle to the VFD, though.

Improved door wiring -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/082%20-%20Door%20wiring%20cleaned%20up%20better_zpsi4eal6 p3.jpg

Completed wiring except for 240V and VFD -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/083%20-%20Completed%20wiring%20minus%20VFD_zpsz4bwoqwg.jp g

David Falkner

09-26-2016, 11:03 PM

My plan was to use a 5-pin connector for the spindle cable so that if I needed to disconnect it then it would be easy. As I began to prepare for doing that this evening I quickly got to the point where I no longer liked that solution for several reasons: 1) lots of extra work trying to make that large cable fit in the tiny 5-pin connector (which is actually too small - the aviation connectors are just right for 18 AWG wire and this is 14 AWG), 2) extra opportunity for noise to enter the picture, and 3) I planned to use the 5-pin connector in the event I need to disconnect the spindle from the enclosure.

The likelihood that I'll need to disconnect the spindle often is low so if I have to then I'll undo the connections at the VFD or on the connector at the spindle.

Fortunately I didn't have to remove anything to enlarge the hole. It was already drilled 5/8" for the aviation connector so I just centered my Greenlee punch and made a larger hole. In the end I think this will work much better.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/084%20-%20Spindle%20connector%20change_zpsniuvyz0s.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/085%20-%20Spindle%20connector%20change_zpshypdwetx.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/086%20-%20Spinde%20connector%20change_zpsz08m7lol.jpg

Mike Heidrick

09-26-2016, 11:46 PM

Still a fan of the Eco Mate plugs/recepticals. Used them on the enclosure too.

http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/eco-l-mate-c016/2185

David Falkner

09-27-2016, 6:56 AM

Still a fan of the Eco Mate plugs/recepticals. Used them on the enclosure too.

http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/eco-l-mate-c016/2185

I like those also, Mike. Started to order some but at this point I need to get up and running. Those are on my 'upgrade' list, for sure! Thanks for the link!

David Falkner

09-27-2016, 1:43 PM

I had originally planned to pull the motors off and just hook the leads directly into the drivers for testing but decided instead to go ahead and make up the cables with connectors and that way I can test everything – electronics, system, software, motors, and my cables. I’ll still pull the motors off for bench testing but now I’ll be using the actual cables to which they’ll be connected (I have to pull the motors off anyway to put thread lock on the mounting bolts). At the pace I work and as detailed and OCD as I am that means most of the day soldering and shrink wrapping connections but it has to be done anyway so might as well be now.

120' of 18/4 shielded cable cut and ready for connectors and soldering onto motor/sensor lead wires (I borrowed the kitchen floor for measuring) -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/087%20-%20120%20of%20Cables%20ready%20for%20connectors_zp sng6rcotr.jpg

David Falkner

09-27-2016, 8:29 PM

I've been making up cables for a good part of the afternoon but started by mounting the enclosure on the stand so I could get the proper lengths of the stepper and proximity cables. So the enclosure is mounted temporarily but will come off later so I can configure the VFD, the Ethernet SmoothStepper, and Mach4. It'll be so much easier to program the VFD with it on the bench (table saw) instead of having to squat down and manage this.

Getting closer -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/089%20-%20Enclosure%20on%20stand%20to%20get%20cabling%20l engths_zps6qszvbgl.jpg

David Falkner

09-27-2016, 11:37 PM

Well, it was a LOT of work to arrive at this point of completing the stepper motor and proximity sensor connectors but I managed to finish this in one day - fast for me! Lots of soldering and shrink wrapping; tomorrow I'll double check each connector for continuity to the end of the cable and to the drivers and relays on the inside of the cabinet. It'll never be easier than now to fix something that isn't making good contact.

Stepper motors, red; Proximity sensors, blue -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/090%20-%20Connectors%20for%20stepper%20motors%20proximity %20sensors_zpsp8d7an4w.jpg

Paul Lawrence

09-28-2016, 8:07 AM

David Falkner

09-28-2016, 8:40 AM

David, you've got some great technical and engineering skills. Looks good.

Like you said check and double check, "Pin 1 goes to pin 1 and is power positive." :D People around me used to think I was nuts talking to myself while putting equipment together, but mine worked the first time power came on. It's worth the effort.

Thanks, Paul!! I drew all of this up in CorelDRAW for pinouts and schematic and have it in front of me while I'm working to reduce any complacency tendencies but today is my opportunity to see how well I followed 'the plan'. After more than 6 hours of this yesterday and last night I realized that on the penultimate connector I soldered a white wire on top of a red wire and didn't notice it until I was ready to button it all up. But I caught it so it wasn't a mistake and only took a minute to correct. If I hadn't caught it then it would be a mistake! LOL! :o

Here are my 'cheat sheets' for these connections (I'll post the schematic when all has been proven to work, don't want to put out a wiring diagram with flaws) - btw, I realize the panel and plug should be mirrors of each other but for simplicity I just kept the same pattern on my drawing.

Proximity sensors -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/092%20-%20Proximity%20sensors%20to%204-pin%20plug%20wiring_zpstu8krei8.jpg

Stepper motors, drivers -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/091%20-%20Stepper%20motor%20to%205-pin%20plug%20wiring_zpsw3y9mjae.jpg

David Falkner

09-28-2016, 6:21 PM

Well, like so many other times in the shop I started out intending to test all of the cables I made up yesterday but instead ran the power lines so I could test the 240V side of the electrical system. While I had the enclosure mounted on the stand I measured for the 120V cord and cut that because I have 120V on my test bench for power but left the long remaining cord for running over to the 240V plug on the wall. I'll trim that to the proper length when I have everything mounted on the machine.

This doesn't look like much progress but it took a while to get the cords run correctly inside the box such that nothing hit or rubbed when the door opens or closes. Either way the cords needed to be run but I still need to test the cables for continuity and shorts, of which I don't really think there are any, and then connect the stepper motors and proximity sensors for testing and initial setup. We have band practice after church tonight so I probably won't get a chance to do much more when I get home.

Completed wiring on door -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/093%20-%20Power%20lines%20run%20door%20complete_zpsycea2k xl.jpg

Powered up and VFD on -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/094%20-%20VFD%20powered%20both%20power%20lines%20complete _zpsxteoccxy.jpg

VFD closeup -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/095%20-%20VFD%20powered%20up_zps7eo4tngq.jpg

David Falkner

09-28-2016, 10:43 PM

Short video of powering up with both 120V and 240V –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIL8yOzxnbY

David Falkner

09-29-2016, 11:05 AM

In checking my cables I found a problem with the very first one I tested - but it wasn't the cable. Rather, it was the connector on the side of the box. I had already checked these when I put them in and before I cleaned up the wiring inside the box. But it had a broken solder joint and I just couldn't see how this would have happened until I fixed it and put the connector back in; turns out I probably broke it loose with the 3/4" open end wrench when I tightened all of these down after cleaning up the wiring. Because it's so tight right in that area I noticed that the wrench, if I'm not careful, will apply pressure to the terminals. Fortunately it wasn't that difficult to remove and repair and get back into place, tightening carefully this time...

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/096%20-%20Broken%20solder%20joint%20on%20connector_zpsoqd rhieh.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/097%20-%20Connector%20out%20for%20repair_zpsdxj4khgf.jpg

John A langley

09-29-2016, 1:13 PM

Looking good Dave

David Falkner

09-29-2016, 3:57 PM

Looking good Dave

Thanks, John!!

David Falkner

09-29-2016, 10:03 PM

It's about time this looked different!! I'm ready to begin programming the ESS and connecting stepper motors and proximity sensors for testing and setup. I'll start fresh tomorrow and see how far I get before reaching out to someone for assistance although several people have already sent me files to get me started and that's a great big help!

The photo on the screen is one I took of Tenaya Lake in Yosemite NP in 2009 -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/098%20-%20Ready%20to%20program%20the%20ESS_zpsgq9vgwao.jp g

David Falkner

09-30-2016, 12:02 PM

Finally labeled the side panel so I can put things in their proper place - can't tell the players without a program!! Now I need to figure out how I want to label the cables...

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/099%20-%20Side%20panel%20labeled_zps15h2hvjq.jpg

David Falkner

10-01-2016, 12:05 AM

Tomorrow I hope to get far enough in setting up Mach4 to be able to test the motors. Here's my 'bench' setup for testing -

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/100%20-%20Motors%20ready%20for%20testing_zpseld84cwf.jpg

Paul Lawrence

10-01-2016, 11:37 AM

David, I used thermal printer with clear shrink, but that may be too late for your cables.

David Falkner

10-01-2016, 4:15 PM

David, I used thermal printer with clear shrink, but that may be too late for your cables.

I had not thought about clear shrink tubing, Paul - great idea!

David Falkner

10-03-2016, 10:21 PM

Still a fan of the Eco Mate plugs/recepticals. Used them on the enclosure too.

http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/eco-l-mate-c016/2185

Mike - specifically which plug do you use on the spindle? My spindle is a 3kW, 4 HP and I'd like to go ahead and order one of these.
Thanks!
David

David Falkner

10-04-2016, 4:48 PM

The motors are spinning!! I ran the Roadrunner program that comes with Mach4 so these varied in how much they ran. You can see the tape is blurred on three of the motors; the Z axis motor wasn't moving when I took the shot. Current draw during this time was about 2 amps. I'm spinning motors but not moving anything so I expected it to be low. After 20 minutes of running the X axis motor, closest one in the photo, got up to 119°, the two Y axis motors made it to 100°, and the Z axis just made it to 90°. Video coming soon -

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/101%20-%20Motors%20spinning_zpsiizag0y5.jpg

David Falkner

10-04-2016, 6:11 PM

Here's the video of the motors spinning –

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFr6d5f9SEk

Paul Lawrence

10-05-2016, 7:44 AM

There's only one reason something this complicated works 'right out of the gate' ... disciplined construction practices.

Well done, David. You now qualify for the late night, single arm pat-on-the-back!

David Falkner

10-05-2016, 9:46 AM

Mike Heidrick

10-05-2016, 3:02 PM

Mike - specifically which plug do you use on the spindle? My spindle is a 3kW, 4 HP and I'd like to go ahead and order one of these.
Thanks!
David

for a receptical I used 361-1090-ND - 4 conductor male - it is 4 conductor and 14ga with screw terminals. Then just choose a mating female plug to match your fancy. Like 361-1365-ND.

I put recepticals on my box and on my spindle and I also used these for other connections like 4th axis and cords for my 12v water pump and fans. I really like them. About $20 a set though.

David Falkner

10-05-2016, 5:11 PM

for a receptical I used 361-1090-ND - 4 conductor male - it is 4 conductor and 14ga with screw terminals. Then just choose a mating female plug to match your fancy. Like 361-1365-ND.

I put recepticals on my box and on my spindle and I also used these for other connections like 4th axis and cords for my 12v water pump and fans. I really like them. About $20 a set though.

Thanks, Mike!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Modbus and relay control wires on the VFD, programming is next -

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/102%20-%20Modbus%20and%20control%20wires%20on%20VFD_zps96 wvfyjm.jpg

David Falkner

10-06-2016, 8:42 PM

Today I got the Hitachi WJ200-022sf VFD programmed and the cable connector soldered on so I could test the spindle and my programming. I left the cable long so it would reach all the way over to the enclosure but will trim it once I get the enclosure mounted. The spindle ran backward but since it is 3 phase all I have to do is swap any two wires and it will run in the other direction (which I did right after the initial test).

As I expected the spindle is very quiet; matter of fact the fan on the VFD was louder than the spindle. I only ran the spindle at 6,000 RPM for a few seconds because I don't have water lines connected yet. But I'm pleased with this and now I can look at programming the logic controls in the VFD for activating other relays on the 4-channel relay board (the one mounted on an angle).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2fdjqq_KSM

David Falkner

10-07-2016, 2:13 PM

It was time to mount the enclosure to the stand so I disconnected the spindle cable, wrapped up the power cords, unplugged the motors and sensors, and carried it over to mount. This thing must weigh 60 to 70 pounds! A normal man would have difficulty with this but my friends say I'm not in that category... LOL!

The holes were predrilled so mounting should be easy except for handling the weight and trying to line up screws so I just put some boards down and set the enclosure on those. Got the first screw in the upper left corner very quickly so I could let go and then had an 'uh oh' moment.

I drew a very detailed and well thought out set of plans for this and had everything measured, calculated, and double-checked so I knew everything was going to fit and I would have access to everything required (pardon me while I pat myself on the back...). However, I didn't follow those plans (pardon me while I kick myself in the rear!!).

When I laid out the location for the side exhaust fan in the upper right of the enclosure I wanted it as high as I could mount it and still have access to the bolt in the upper right corner. No problem, I set the location accordingly and moved on. But a week later when I actually began to cut the holes for the fan I pondered why it was 1.5" from the top and not 1". So I drilled all the holes and mounted it at 1" from the top so it would be just a little higher to exhaust an immeasurable increase of warm air. Yes, I'm anal like that - sorry.

Today I discovered why it was suppose to be 1.5" from the top; I can't get to the upper right corner bolt. For about 30 minutes I tried all sorts of tricks and techniques to get the bolt at least started but to no avail. I can't take the fan out without taking the VFD out. I'm thinking that if I take the VFD out I can get to it ok and it is, after all, very easy to take out. I can probably take the VFD out, attach the bolt, and put the VFD back in place in less than the 30 minutes I wasted trying to 'stubborn' my way through it. I'm just glad my wife wasn't here at the time because she would have said from the start to take the VFD out and quit wasting time! LOL! The only thing is that every fastener in the enclosure is secured with thread lock and I didn't really want to disturb that but I guess I'll just put some more on.

On the stand -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/103%20-%20Enclosure%20mounted%20on%20stand_zpsvegsdrat.jp g

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/104%20-%20Enclosure%20mounted%20on%20stand_zps0tezamjq.jp g

Inaccessible bolt - it may appear as though a long extension would work but I assure you it will not even come close -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/105%20-%20Mounting%20bolt%20inaccessible_zps2dkjoczd.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/106%20-%20Mounting%20bolt%20inaccessible_zpsjdrxvmt3.jpgs tand –

David Falkner

10-07-2016, 3:15 PM

15 minutes, start to finish with bolt in and VFD back in place; should've done that to start with! Actually, should have mounted the fan in the right place to start with but I digress...

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/107%20-%20Bolt%20finally%20in_zps0qgeaj52.jpg

David Falkner

10-07-2016, 10:30 PM

Wrapping up a busy day, lots accomplished! After mounting the enclosure I remounted all the stepper motors. That meant putting thread locker on every set screw and mounting bolt, including the mount for the spindle, and on every fastener except the mounting bolts that go into nylon lock nuts. After I got the steppers mounted and properly tensioned I started running cables through the cable chains. Both of these tasks actually took quite a while but they're all run now and the only thing left to run are the water lines.

It's probably going to take just as long to clean up the lines and get them better organized and I still have to solder the leads on 4 stepper motors and 6 proximity sensors. Each will be covered in shrink tubing and carefully placed so as not to rub unnecessarily on anything else in the path but still allow for free movement.

Gotta' shut it down for the night, though. Not only because I have been at this since 7 this morning but now I have to clean up for a high school reunion we're going to in about an hour. Tomorrow we have a family reunion and that's going to take all day. So I won't get much done tomorrow.

Grounding the frame to the main ground lug in the enclosure and thus to earth ground -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/108%20-%20Grounding%20wire_zps3isymth8.jpg

Steppers and sensors plugged into the enclosure -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/109%20-%20Steppers%20sensors%20plugged%20in_zps82pwfqdq.j pg

Running cables through the cable chains -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/110%20-%20Running%20cables%20in%20the%20cable%20chain_zps hxczsgps.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/111%20-%20Running%20cables%20in%20the%20cable%20chain_zps d3ufmbn6.jpg

David Falkner

10-09-2016, 2:26 PM

We did the reunion trip and I had a few hours after we got home last night to solder the cables to the motor leads. There's a lot more to doing this (and doing it right) than meets the eye - lot of prep work and diligence to keep the solder joints staggered, provide a good mechanical connection before soldering, getting the shrink tubing in place, etc. but the connections are good so that's what matters.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/112%20-%20Soldering%20motor%20leads_zpsxnuunbdm.jpg

3 down, one to go -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/113%20-%20Motor%20leads%20soldered_zpsbax0behn.jpg

David Falkner

10-09-2016, 4:30 PM

IT'S ALIVE!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce8jtmAqYIU

Bruce Page

10-09-2016, 4:36 PM

Congratulations!

Paul Lawrence

10-09-2016, 7:44 PM

I just knew it would work the first time out.

Get some wood under there and work out the rest of the kinks before you relax! This is the hardest time to maintain your quality.

Good job!

David Falkner

10-09-2016, 9:25 PM

Congratulations!

Thanks, Bruce!!

I just knew it would work the first time out.

Get some wood under there and work out the rest of the kinks before you relax! This is the hardest time to maintain your quality.

Good job!

Thanks, Paul!! We just got in from church but I'm heading out there in a few minutes to line up what I need to finish cabling for the sensors. Then I need to run water lines before I can run the spindle long enough to cut anything.

David Falkner

10-10-2016, 7:45 PM

Got some more wiring finished today, starting with one E-Stop and moving on to the proximity sensors. When I made the bracket for the E-Stop I drilled a hole where the center of the box would be so I could bring the wire in from the bottom to the inside of the box. Since I wanted to make certain nothing rubbed or cut the outer jacket I sized it for a grommet and while I had the cover off for wiring I thought I'd take a photo of that.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/114%20-%20E-Stop%20grommet%20inside_zpssbslveot.jpg

Finished E-Stop, bracket, and Y- proximity sensor -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/115%20-%20E-Stop%20Y-%20proximity_zpse49qqppi.jpg

Y+ proximity -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/116%20-%20Y%20proximity_zpsczzqqnnw.jpg

Making certain nothing moves or rubs through the outer jacket on the cabling -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/117%20-%20Y%20proximity%20wiring_zpsh3kdlrei.jpg

David Falkner

10-11-2016, 10:49 PM

Busy day on sensors, including crushing one - ugh! The design locations for sensors on this frame/machine are less than desirable. I relocated the Y axis sensor positions and made some simple temporary brackets for the X axis sensors. However, the Z axis locations have the sensors pointing at the plastic end piece on the linear bearings. Now, if you have 8mm sensing distance proximity sensors then you might get away with this but mine are 4mm. And here's a little piece of info if you're shopping for sensors - the distances given are for steel. They're half the distance on aluminum.

I had decided to cut some small pieces of cold rolled steel and attach to the aluminum so I could get my full sensing distance, including onto the plastic for the Z axis. I had set up the sensors for testing and the Z axis was nearly touching the plastic when it tripped but since I planned to add some steel it wasn't going to be an issue. Well, it wasn't until I accidentally jogged the Z axis up instead of down when it was about 1/2" away from the sensor - too far away to trip and just far enough away to fly into the sensor.

Here's the result -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/124%20-%20Crushed%20sensor_zpstjfryag1.jpg

The jog rate was only 25% but that was enough to crush the sensor. Luckily I had another sensor although replacing one isn't what I started out to do today. So after that I made the steel pads to double my sensing distance and these give me much greater results. Ultimately I believe the sensors should be alongside the traveling carriage or component instead of directly in the path. That's probably how I'll redesign the mounts once I get finished with the build but I won't tackle that right now.

Steel pads and the new sensing distance -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/123%20-%20Steel%20added%20for%20sensors_zpslydp4hgf.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/122%20-%20Steel%20added%20for%20sensors_zpsesjhl7hd.jpg

David Falkner

10-11-2016, 11:07 PM

The other task I completed today was to change out the spindle connector. I didn't care for the one that came with the spindle so I ordered an Amphenol and it arrived today. Getting the old connector off was a bear; finally had to take a punch and bust it up. The new connector went in without a hitch and is much more solid.

Old connector (I planned to shrink the tubing but decided instead to replace the connector so the heat shrink is just sitting there) -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/118%20-%20Old%20spindle%20connector_zpsmxctuydj.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/119%20-%20Old%20connector%20hard%20to%20remove_zpsbso9xut q.jpg

New Amphenol connector -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/120%20-%20New%20Amphenol%20connector_zpsvxgikqay.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/121%20-%20New%20Amphenol%20connector_zpszxcmkogl.jpg

David Falkner

10-12-2016, 4:57 PM

Ha!! Look what I found under all the CNC electronics stuff - a table saw!!

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/125%20-%20Table%20saw%20found_zps0qb9ncet.jpg

After I figured out how to turn it on and what it does I did a little woodworking; it's been a couple of months since that's happened in this woodshop. I made a shelf for the spindle water reservoir and added a much needed diagonal brace. I knew it was going to be needed but until I decided on the water reservoir size I couldn't put the brace in. As I expected it is now much, much stiffer in the Y direction. The tub for water reservoir is about 7.5 gallons capacity. The shelf is made with a couple of boards from the shipping pallet for the CNC frame.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/126%20-%20Water%20reservoir%20shelf_zpsclzplnfv.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/127%20-%20Water%20reservoir_zps8rxidll5.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/128%20-%20Diagonal%20brace_zpszulb3sv0.jpg

David Falkner

10-13-2016, 10:14 PM

It was time to run the water lines for the spindle and I needed to drop them through the cable tray down to the reservoir so I used a grommet to protect the lines. For about 5 seconds I considered running the lines over the edge but didn't like that.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/130%20-%20Grommet%20for%20water%20lines_zpsk2m3ag4x.jpg

Tonight I mounted the radiator, fan, and box with connectors for the pump and fan. The fan is 120Vac and the submersible pump is 12Vdc. The fan will use the top 3-pin connector and the pump will use the bottom 5-pin connector. Neither one needs this many wires but I wanted them different so down the road I wouldn't accidentally plug them into the wrong spot - it won't always be this easy to see down there. I mounted the radiator right over the reservoir so that if a slow leak starts the lid will contain a small amount of water. Also, if I need to drain the lines all I have to do is remove the lid and the radiator is right over the reservoir.

I'll connect the lines and wire the plugs tomorrow and then I can test the spindle fittings and lines.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/131%20-%20Fan%20radiator%20connectors_zpsdpynsvqv.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/132%20-%20Radiator_zps3tz2ow6u.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/133%20-%20Fan%20radiator%20connectors_zpsbmmpdwow.jpg

David Falkner

10-15-2016, 12:04 AM

Today I completed the water cooling system for lines and wiring and ran it for testing - all is good! However, not without some hiccups along the way. When I first tried to run the pump nothing happened. I know it works because I tested it, even did a video of me spraying water in the kitchen. So I started troubleshooting and quickly discovered that I had wired the relay inside the enclosure for 5V instead of 12V. That meant I had to do some rewiring with the enclosure on the stand and that's a whole lot more difficult than doing it on the bench.

After finding a spot to grab 12V I ran the wire to the common side of the relay and with all the confidence in the world I fired it back up, expecting the pump to run. Nothing, nada, zilch... The pump plugs into a 5-pin connector and I had checked continuity after making the cable and soldering everything so I knew that was good. Finally, after about 20 L O N G minutes of searching for broken solder joints, wires, checking polarity, etc. I decided to check the plug on the pump again. For some reason I had soldered the two leads to pins 4 & 5 instead of pins 1 & 2 (like the receptacle). What a dummy! Now it didn't matter which two pins I used but you'd think it would be a good idea to use the same pins on the receptacle and plug - right?! Right! Sometimes I wish I was smart instead of just good looking... ok, at this point in my life I'll take either one. LOL!

Anyway, here's the completed unit; the filter on the intake is for aquariums and it should stop anything 1/16" or larger. I intend to keep the lid on and monitor the water for sediment or trash so I'll add a better filter later if needed. The discharge hose is fastened to the lid so I can see water flowing out and I'll probably add a flow indicator later. The blue fittings on the pump are anodized aluminum, the capacity of the reservoir is 7.5 gallons, and the tubing is silicone with a continuous use temperature range: -60 ℃ ~ 200 ℃ - I expect to be operating the spindle well inside that range!
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/134%20-%20Water%20cooling%20system%20complete_zps3rg7xbsu .jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/135%20-%20Water%20cooling%20system%20complete_zpswhs4fcdv .jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/136%20-%20Submersible%20pump%20intake%20flter_zpscqxpeonk .jpg

David Falkner

10-15-2016, 9:32 PM

Here's a video testing the cooling system -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaL6NwuVkKA

Mike Heidrick

10-15-2016, 10:42 PM

Looks good. I installed one way hose connectors at the spindle in case I needed to remove it. They sell them at mcmastercarr.

Love my amphenol ecomate spindle connector plug. Hope you like it too.

David Falkner

10-15-2016, 10:47 PM

Looks good. I installed one way hose connectors at the spindle in case I needed to remove it. They sell them at mcmastercarr.

Love my amphenol ecomate spindle connector plug. Hope you like it too.

Mike, I really like the Amphenol plug and receptacle - thanks so much for the link!!

Do you have a link to the connectors from McMaster Carr? These seem to be ok for now but I know there are better available.

David Falkner

10-17-2016, 9:29 PM

While I didn't really do anything on the CNC today I did do something needed for the CNC; I built a mobile cart for the computer. I don't have room to have a dedicated spot for a computer and related peripherals so a mobile cart was my only real option. This is narrow enough to fit between the table saw and CNC and also narrow enough to go against the wall at the front end of the CNC but it is wide enough to be stable. I can't mount anything to the wall at the front of the CNC even though that spot appears to be available because the attic stairway folds down right there so it's really not usable space, at least not for anything mounted permanently.

I made this with some of the boards from the CNC shipping pallet and some MDF I had sitting around. The only thing I bought for this project are the HF casters and outlet strip. Both the Ethernet and Modbus cables are 15' long so I have a fair amount of travel available.

So here's my afternoon project (for me to start and finish a project in one day is close to miraculous!!) -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/137%20-%20Mobile%20computer%20stand_zpsaeotn23x.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/138%20-%20Mobile%20computer%20stand_zpsfv13qvnl.jpg

Mike Heidrick

10-17-2016, 11:01 PM

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-quick-disconnect-tube-couplings/=14n6s6n

These are sold individually and you want ones with shut off. Mine are mounted about 10" above the spindle.

Paul Lawrence

10-18-2016, 6:21 AM

David, my favorite thing to plug computers into is an uninterruptible power supply (UPS.)

Looking good!

David Falkner

10-18-2016, 8:23 AM

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-quick-disconnect-tube-couplings/=14n6s6n

These are sold individually and you want ones with shut off. Mine are mounted about 10" above the spindle.

Thanks, Mike! I may upgrade to these after I've run for a while.

David, my favorite thing to plug computers into is an uninterruptible power supply (UPS.)

Looking good!

I thought about a UPS, Paul, and may add one later. Everything in the house is on a UPS - computers, network closet, even the TV/DVR that we never use (we don't watch TV at all); seems like we have about 6 UPS's or so. But I figured if the power goes out or blinks the machine is going to stop anyway.

David Falkner

10-18-2016, 11:15 PM

I took a break from the CNC build and went out to south Shreveport and helped Tim at Cut & Dry Sawmill cut 375 bd. ft. of Walnut, most of it for me. It took most of the morning but it was a blast and the smell of Walnut in the Fall air is just simply wonderful!! Tim has a solar kiln and he said the 4/4 will be finished drying around Thanksgiving and the 10/4 will be ready around Christmas.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/Cut%20and%20Dry%20Sawmill%20-%20Tim%20Walnut_zpsxaxew7bh.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/Cut%20and%20Dry%20Sawmill%20-%20375%20bd%20ft%20of%20Walnut_zpslkbazcx7.jpg

Paul Lawrence

10-20-2016, 11:46 AM

I thought about a UPS, Paul, and may add one later. Everything in the house is on a UPS - computers, network closet, even the TV/DVR that we never use (we don't watch TV at all); seems like we have about 6 UPS's or so. But I figured if the power goes out or blinks the machine is going to stop anyway.

It isn't that so much as what happens with Windows when the power goes out. The UPS will make your Windows installation much more reliable. Keeping the CNC running is not the reason for the UPS.

David Falkner

10-20-2016, 4:34 PM

It isn't that so much as what happens with Windows when the power goes out. The UPS will make your Windows installation much more reliable. Keeping the CNC running is not the reason for the UPS.

I'll probably pick one up pretty soon. I don't really like having a desktop computer not on a UPS. Thanks, Paul!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I drained the water out of the system and am preparing for distilled water and the RV antifreeze but thought I'd mark the lines so the pump will know which way the water flows when I turn it back on...

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/139%20-%20Water%20flow%20directional%20arrows_zpsaxprd1zk .jpg

David Falkner

10-20-2016, 5:41 PM

When the machine came in it was missing a few links in the cable chain and those arrived today so I was able to complete the cable run on the gantry. I need to get the correct bolt and then decide how I'll secure the cables and water lines but at least now the cable chain is in place.

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/140%20-%20Cable%20chain%20added_zpskunf5ok9.jpg

David Falkner

10-20-2016, 6:16 PM

I set up the homing based on what I've read and seen online but I'm not certain I have this correct. Many machines I've seen move very quickly toward home and when they approach the sensors they slow down. The way I have it set it's just slow across the board. It's ok if I jog it to a couple of inches away from home but if it has a long way to travel I might as well pack a lunch. So... I wonder what I have not yet set or if I'm just mistaken on how it is suppose to act.

Homing Speed is set to 20% but it was 5% so it is much faster now but not sure it's correct.
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/141%20-%20Homing%20screen_zpsnjqnfy7j.jpg

Here's a short video of the homing -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdLVFXN3O60

David Falkner

10-21-2016, 11:00 PM

I set up to do a little calibrating and found the machine was out more than I thought it would be. The first test on the Y axis was 0.014" out in one inch. In the full travel of the Y axis, 50", that is almost 3/4" off (0.700")! So I used a dial indicator and did a little tweaking to the motor configuration and the Counts per Unit in Mach4. Now when I tell it to move an inch it moves an inch - poifect!! The only drawback is that the DRO on the screen in Mach4 is off by 0.0002" which isn't very much at all but I just don't see why it isn't 0.0000".

Here's a video to better show what I'm seeing -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpd6xr7Bkn4

Bruce Page

10-21-2016, 11:25 PM

Can you set up Mach4 to display just 3 places? A machine shop Jig Borer will run "tenths" all day. I don't see the need for a 4 decimal place readout on a CNC router.

David Falkner

10-21-2016, 11:58 PM

Can you set up Mach4 to display just 3 places? A machine shop Jig Borer will run "tenths" all day. I don't see the need for a 4 decimal place readout on a CNC router.

I hadn't thought about that, Bruce. Before I calibrated it, when it was off by 0.014", it went to all zeros every time. But now that it's actually going a true inch the DRO is off and I don't get it. I doubt I'll ever see it like this unless I calibrate again. Running jobs won't likely ever show 0.0000 on the display.

David Falkner

10-22-2016, 1:40 PM

If you watched the previous video you probably noticed that I wasn't satisfied with the slight error in accuracy. So, I changed my methodology and process and now it is dead on and I'm good with dead on. I wrote a spreadsheet to use the current motor settings, take the error in accuracy, and then calculate new motor settings. Each time I ran it the errors became smaller and the accuracy got better so after running it about 5 times it is now dead on.

Here's the new process and video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuJnCNXkZTs

Brian Lamb

10-22-2016, 2:37 PM

Jerome Stanek

10-22-2016, 3:19 PM

Are you sure there is no back lash in the gear box

David Falkner

10-22-2016, 4:59 PM

Hi David,

I don't want to bust your bubble, but indicators rarely travel exactly 1" when they say 1". You have all sorts of errors that can show up, if you don't have the plunger perfectly parallel in two axis to the direction of movement you get a sine error. If your indicator actually swings .0997" per .1000" revolution, by the time you spin it 10 times for an inch, you can be quite a bit off.

You should set travel distances using an accurate gage block, for example your Z axis, put the indicator into or on the spindle, set a 123 block on the table in the thin direction, 1" thick. Stand another 123 block on top of it so it is 3" tall. Zero your indicator in the top of the 3" block, slide it out of the way and using MDI command a Z-3.0 move and see if you get zero on the indicator again. You can do the same thing in the X and Y axis, just have to clamp one block solid so it doesn't move. I like to use 123 blocks as they are usually accurate on size within probably less than .0002", but I also have gage blocks called "jo blocks" up to 6" long in a single piece and like to use those too.

Yes, Brian, you are correct. And I considered that but my eyeballing is pretty close for what I was doing. I mainly wanted the DRO to read correctly even though I showed the dial indicator. If that was off 0.003" then that just gives me a good visual because it isn't going to be out that much just because it isn't parallel or perpendicular to the traveling piece. And alas, I don't have any 123 or Jo blocks so I worked with what I had. I'm keeping this info you've provided for future reference, though. It's been many, many years since I've been involved in machine shop and tool & die work but I remember using those all the time.

Are you sure there is no back lash in the gear box

Hey Jerome - I doubt there's much in the way of backlash, at least not at this point since the machine is brand new. See below -

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Pursuant to all this calibration -

After all the calibrations for accuracy I put the machine to a field test for about 10 minutes. I used simple G-code to feed at 300 ipm and then to various positions all over the machine. About 90% of the time it was spot on the number I put in the parameters and the other 10% it ended up on xx.9999" and I don't think I'll get it any better than that. I also picked up some reusable tie straps from HF so I could clean up the cabling yet still have the ability to redo something if necessary.

Machine calibration testing -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/143%20-%20Machine%20test%20for%20accuracy_zps1i1fbz2x.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/144%20-%20Cabling%20cleaned%20up_zpson1ilgbu.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/145%20-%20Cabling%20cleaned%20up_zpsgcttbf2b.jpg

Jerome Stanek

10-22-2016, 6:47 PM

with the machine on and your gauge in place try puling and pushing and see if there is any movement.

David Falkner

10-22-2016, 8:16 PM

with the machine on and your gauge in place try puling and pushing and see if there is any movement.

LOL! You want there to be backlash, dontcha!! :D

I'm finished with this step, put the dial indicator and base up, and am moving on. Before I got the technique down on calibrating, when it was always going to 0.0002 and -0.0002 there was never a point where I suspected backlash was coming into play.

David Falkner

10-23-2016, 10:33 PM

After calibrating I thought it would be good to run some very simple patterns in the X and Y directions, no cutting so Z isn't involved. There's not much to this but it does show me that the machine is smooth and does what I asked it to do, at least cutting air anyway. This is a short video, about 42 seconds, so you won't be bored very long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f56HZ98e6mg

Bruce Page

10-23-2016, 11:10 PM

David Falkner

10-23-2016, 11:18 PM

David, you should look into making or buying one of these marking tools to play with. It is really useful (and fun) to have on hand.

Cosmos does nice work. The fit & finish is excellent.
http://cosmos-industrial.com/index.p...=index&cPath=3

Thanks, Bruce! I had told my wife about these but haven't started looking where I could get one. I know at some point I'll get or buy a drag knife, as well. Which pen(s) do you have?

Bruce Page

10-23-2016, 11:31 PM

Mine's a mini Sharpie pen & pencil combo I bought a couple of years ago. I don't see it listed now. With your high Z, any of them would work well.

David Falkner

10-28-2016, 12:39 PM

I've been away for a few days but only because I had to rebuild my main graphics computer, which is also the same computer I use for posting on forums and for e-mail. But I have not been idle, rather I've managed to spend countless hours on Fusion 360 tutorial videos just so I could cut four pockets on the spoil board. This is cutting edge stuff!! LOL!

Anyway, here's the video -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyZ7EWylZKk

Brian Lamb

10-28-2016, 4:52 PM

David Falkner

10-28-2016, 6:20 PM

Too small of a tool for one. Also, feed rate general rule.... 1% of tool diameter per tooth, so an 1/8" end mill a good starting place is .00125" per tooth per rev, so a two flute would be .0025" per rev at say 20,000 rpm would be about 50ipm. Plunging would be about 25% to 33% of that. Always try to use the biggest tool and shortest length you can.... for example that end mill could have been stubby and chucked up a lot tighter, makes a world of difference.

Thanks, Brian! That is a 1/8" two-flute end mill though it likely looks smaller in the video. The first 'plunge' was not expected. In the simulation it appeared to start at the surface and cutting slowly in a small circular motion and feeding down slowly. I ran it without a bit and eyeballed the path but it didn't look like it was going to plunge that far or I wouldn't have run it that way. I had originally planned for the cut to include the 0.201" (#7 drill bit) hole for tapping 1/4-20 so that's why the small bit and that's why the plunge in the first attempt.

The second time, when it actually worked, I took the 0.201" hole out of the picture and just had it cut the pocket. I had greatly changed the parameters before I had Fusion 360 generate the tool path and I watched it about a dozen times without a bit but somehow the bit changes things. When it had the bit in place it seemed much faster than when it didn't - optical illusion, I guess.

Fusion 360 set the feed at 24 ipm, feed per tooth at 0.001", plunge at 30 ipm, and the RPM at 8000 for this bit and I didn't change any of that. Of course, it looks much faster moving in the video because I increased the video speed on pockets 2-4 but pocket 1 is at real time speed.

I imagine for the foreseeable future I'll learn something every time I fire the machine up or generate a tool path - at least I hope I learn something every time!

Brian Lamb

10-28-2016, 7:40 PM

Don't just blindly trust any CAM software.... you have feed rates close to right for 20,000 rpm and you ares running 8000, no wonder you snapped it off, that's triple the chip load. And you always plunge slower than you feed.

David Falkner

10-28-2016, 8:18 PM

Don't just blindly trust any CAM software.... you have feed rates close to right for 20,000 rpm and you are running 8000, no wonder you snapped it off, that's triple the chip load. And you always plunge slower than you feed.

The other reason I snapped it off is that I plunged it a full 1/2" into the MDF - LOL! It's going to take me a while to know when the CAM software isn't giving me what I really need. Way back when I was a machinist at teen years to early 20's and running machines by hand this never happened. My built-in CNC mechanism just knows you can't do that. This machine ain't that smart! ;)

Bruce Page

10-29-2016, 12:09 AM

David Falkner

10-29-2016, 12:15 PM

One of the beauties of Vectric's V-Carve & Aspire cad/cam software (and others, I'm sure) is that it gives you an animated preview of exactly how the tool paths will run, and you can easily fine tune them if needed.

Fusion 360 also does that but I guess I wasn't paying attention to the right things. I've double checked with the machine and the software and neither wants to share in the blame so I guess it's all on me! LOL! :o

David Falkner

10-30-2016, 11:42 PM

I was setting up to cut a 24"x24" board when it occurred to me that I had not checked the table for coplanar accuracy. This is the initial test and it's out enough that I need to correct it before going much further.

Here's the setup I used -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/153%20-%20Setup%20for%20checking%20coplanar_zpsa4qwsjuj.j pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eA1eQe-5Xo

David Falkner

11-04-2016, 8:14 AM

This isn't really part of the build except that it's a natural progression to at least show the CNC machine working, so I thought a little project was in order. The build isn't 100% complete, though, but close enough to begin using the machine. I still need to get the VFD talking to the software (Modbus, connected via USB adapter - right now I have to open the electrical enclosure and use the keypad to turn the spindle on/off and change speeds), I need to make an auto-zero touch plate for the Z axis, need to figure out how to mount the Z- axis proximity sensor, and I truly need a dust shoe - really, really need a dust shoe!!

A little background on the project - I'm building acoustic guitars which means right now I build more templates, fixtures, forms, and jigs than guitars. One of the tools frequently used is a radius dish or a set of radius dishes for different guitars. People frequently call them 'flattop guitars' but most aren't even close to flat. The top and back have radii ranging from 12' to 65' or more. The radius helps keep the guitar stable, makes it stronger, and helps with the sound (very basic explanation). What I'm using is a 28' radius for the top and 15' for the back so last August Sandy and I got out in the driveway and made some MDF dust, lots of MDF dust. I know the dishes aren't cut perfectly so this looked like a good project to start the CNC on its path to production.

The video is a little longer than most I've posted but still tolerable at 8 1/2 minutes and starts with cutting the first radius dish by hand and progressing to cleaning them up on the CNC. It's interesting to note that the DC is much louder than the CNC and also how the mic picks up sound - the radio isn't as loud in the room as it sounds on the recording and the fans for the enclosure aren't that noticeable but they are in the recording. The hearing protection I wear is for the DC, though, because it is annoying and just loud enough that I won't run it without ear plugs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWS_bhN7QYc

Jerome Stanek

11-04-2016, 11:21 AM

If your table isn't flat get a fly cutter and surface it

Bruce Page

11-04-2016, 12:15 PM

Now you're having fun! I'm a fan of the Kent dust shoe. I wouldn't want to be without it.
https://www.kentcnc.net/nc/standard-split-shoe-standard-dust-shoe

David Falkner

11-04-2016, 12:28 PM

If your table isn't flat get a fly cutter and surface it

Already did, Jerome - thanks! I didn't see any reason to cut so much off when I could shim and get it closer before surfacing the entire board.

David Falkner

11-04-2016, 12:32 PM

Now you're having fun! I'm a fan of the Kent dust shoe. I wouldn't want to be without it.
https://www.kentcnc.net/nc/standard-split-shoe-standard-dust-shoe

Yep - having a blast, Bruce! I've had 3 recommendations this morning for commercial dust shoes and they're all for the Kent dust shoe so it must be a good one.

Keith Outten

11-04-2016, 1:52 PM

David Falkner

11-04-2016, 2:58 PM

David,

Looks like you have a really nice machine. All of the work and planning has paid off, I hope you enjoy your upcoming projects and the changes the machine will bring to your fabrication routines.

Great Job!!!

Thanks, Keith!! I have a few issues to clear up but I'll just do those as I get time; I'm ready to make things! ;)

David Falkner

11-15-2016, 10:05 PM

I guess technically the build is complete but there are still a few things I associate with 'the build', like dust control. Tonight I ran a 7' piece of 4" PVC for dust collection and connected it to my partially complete dust shoe. A friend is suppose to be getting me some clear vinyl so I'm holding off ordering anything to complete the dust shoe.

The hose reaches the extents of the X, Y, and Z travel but I need to work on securing it so it doesn't flop around. At this point I'm not certain what I'll come up with for that, though - just started thinking about it.

I'm still not accustomed to coming up with a design/idea, being able to draw it in Fusion 360, and then be cutting it out a short while later. It's a given that we all do that with the other tools in our shops but this is just a bit different for me and it's still pretty cool!

I had some scrap 5/8" MDF and 2x4 so that's what I made these brackets out of, then painted them Ferrari Red, Yellow, and Black (that's important, btw - LOL!).

Anyway, here's what I have to this point -
http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/157%20-%20PVC%20pipe%20hangers_zpshqatjenk.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/158%20-%20Dust%20collection_zpsoh2t0olb.jpg

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/159%20-%20Dust%20collection_zpsskwifebw.jpg

Bruce Page

11-15-2016, 10:56 PM

David Falkner

11-15-2016, 11:16 PM

I took up the flop around with a long spring from Lowes that goes from the ceiling to a large dog collar around the hose. It works well for me. I can post a pic.
Just an FYI, the Kent dust shoe people also sell just the bristle strip in two different sizes if you want to make your own shoe.

Thanks, Bruce - yes, please post a photo. I did see that the Kent folks offer the strip brush but I'm waiting to see if my friend comes through with the clear vinyl strip first.

Bruce Page

11-15-2016, 11:33 PM

I used a simple large size dog collar from PetSmart. My intent was to help lift some of the hose weight off of the Z drive and to keep the hose suspended throughout the gantry movement range. I also fabricated an aluminum plate to carry the hose up above the spindle.
Just some ideas to ponder.

David Falkner

11-16-2016, 10:54 AM

That's a nice setup, Bruce. I was thinking a spring of some sort might work so it helps to see how yours is set up. Thanks!

Mike Heidrick

11-16-2016, 5:55 PM

Looks great. Good luck with the shoe. I attached a piece of angle to my spindle mount and it holds the hose up high snough. I velcro tied it to the angle iron.

David Falkner

11-17-2016, 1:00 AM

Looks great. Good luck with the shoe. I attached a piece of angle to my spindle mount and it holds the hose up high snough. I velcro tied it to the angle iron.

Thanks, Mike! Velcro may well come into the picture on mine, as well.

After running the PVC pipe and connecting the hose to the dust shoe, yet to be completed, I needed a way to manage the hose movement. I worked through several mockups before deciding on making this mount out of 1/2" Baltic Birch. I'll try it for a while and see how it does but the first thing I need to do is make a collar of some sort so the hose doesn’t slip down. It won’t actually be that big of a deal because I imagine most of my work is going to be in the first 24” of the table and the hose doesn’t move in that area.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1NPlFTt_bg

Brian Lamb

11-17-2016, 9:06 AM

Bruce Page

11-17-2016, 12:32 PM

Another suggestion given to me by one of the tech gurus at Camaster was to run a copper ground wire through your hose & PVC pipe. Connect the ground wire to an external ground, do NOT connect it to the CNC.
Woodstock W1053 Grounding Kit for Dust Collection Systems (https://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-W1053-Grounding-Collection-Systems/dp/B0000223YM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479403725&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=dust+collection+copper+ground+wire)

Mike Heidrick

11-17-2016, 1:44 PM

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/cast%20spindle/IMG_1128.jpg

That's what I did instead of ridged pipe.

David Falkner

11-17-2016, 3:27 PM

David,

I would use a piece of rigid pipe, 4" metal spiral, or PVC as you like that already, for the first piece above the dust shoe and through your upper mount. It can slide up and down with the Z movement, but the plastic hose would then be above the mount and not have any issue with catching or needing to be tied to the mount.

I thought about doing that, Brian, but the 10' piece I bought was just enough to do what I needed for this run. I'd have to buy another 10' just to get that 2' I need. I'd probably use the remaining 8' somewhere and likely soon but I'll just use it like this for a little while.

Another suggestion given to me by one of the tech gurus at Camaster was to run a copper ground wire through your hose & PVC pipe. Connect the ground wire to an external ground, do NOT connect it to the CNC.
Woodstock W1053 Grounding Kit for Dust Collection Systems (https://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-W1053-Grounding-Collection-Systems/dp/B0000223YM/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1479403725&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=dust+collection+copper+ground+wire)

Thanks, Bruce! I do need to run that ground wire, for sure.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e169/BloomingtonMike/cast%20spindle/IMG_1128.jpg

That's what I did instead of ridged pipe.

Nice looking setup, Mike!

David Falkner

11-17-2016, 3:28 PM

Quick update - I said I needed a way to keep the hose from falling down toward the spindle so what I came up with is a hose retaining nut, left hand threads, of course... Yeah, they didn't know what one was at Lowe's, either ;)

It's possible I could add a second one below the mount and maybe hold the hose in place better but I don't think the little bit of movement will be a problem. I could also put a retainer clip on the 'nut' and hold it in place but again, this probably won't be an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRqrURGOHFc

David Falkner

11-18-2016, 10:36 PM

This isn't really part of the build except that I was testing not only the machine's ability to engrave small letters, 0.25" high, but my ability to do it in Fusion 360 which is definitely NOT friendly to this sort of thing. I saw this small piece of Honduras Mahogany and thought it would be a good test and it turns out the machine had no issues at all with this. I may try smaller just for grins - larger won't be an issue. But one of the things I plan on using this CNC for is inlay work on guitars so I need to know it will perform well on small, intricate, delicate pieces of wood and Abalone (or Mother of Pearl).

Here's a short video of my test -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7aO7O7ARag

Jerome Stanek

11-19-2016, 1:11 PM

I have used this hose for the past 8 years now and never had a problem no wire required

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-4-in-x-20-ft-Dryer-Vent-Duct-BTD420HD/203626495

David Falkner

11-19-2016, 2:25 PM

I have used this hose for the past 8 years now and never had a problem no wire required

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-4-in-x-20-ft-Dryer-Vent-Duct-BTD420HD/203626495

Really? Wow, I thought that would collapse. I wish I had known that because I just ordered another 20' section like I have now. Thanks, Jerome!

David Falkner

12-31-2016, 11:28 PM

The build is actually complete but I needed to improve on my DIY dust shoe... this didn't work but may be entertaining for y'all - :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xph0YMLMBGs

Bruce Page

12-31-2016, 11:48 PM

It did sound neat, in a crunchy sort of way.

Mike Heidrick

01-02-2017, 12:56 PM

Maybe some ice scraper brushes? Take off the brush mcmastercarr prob sells the brush as well.

Bruce Page

01-02-2017, 1:18 PM

You can also buy 2" & 3" brush bristles from KentCNC.

David Falkner

01-02-2017, 11:54 PM

You can also buy 2" & 3" brush bristles from KentCNC.

I actually made one today, Bruce, with a 'dust shoe kit' (MDF and a $5 broom). These bristles are 4" long and they're 1/2" too short with a simple 1/2" straight flute Freud router bit but it works good enough to keep the chips from flying very far. It captures all of the airborne dust, at least what I can see. I learn a lot about Fusion 360 doing little engineering projects like this so even if it doesn't work as I would like at least I have learned more about the process and software. I'm thinking the broom is only good in tight corners now, though... ;)

http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii494/difalkner/CNC%20Build/004%20-%20Dust%20shoe%20kit_zpslbel15vf.jpg

Mark Bolton

01-03-2017, 12:01 PM

I think all of your attempts and R&D, even if it costs more, will likely serve you better than any commercially available shoe. We have the Kent on our machine and "it leaves a lot to be desired" is an understatement. Its not the fault of the shoe, design, or manufacture. Its just that its very difficult to have a static shoe that really kills it with regards to pickup in varied situations. One setup may do well on 3D work another a bit better on panel work. Forget about varied bit lengths. You try to set your bristles for the longest bit length and they will be getting cut off by the bit on shorter lengths.

If someone could design a static shoe that would have 90%+ pickup cutting panel products (ply or melamine) full depth (3/4") at high feed speeds (600ipm), they would lock up the market.

We picked up the CNC with the Kent with a 5" line coming off a 2HP oneida cyclone (reduced to 4" right at the shoe) and even with the double row of bristles the bristles are sucked up into the port. I tried throttling the flow to leave the bristles straight and it was worse. Installed a plastic baffle behind the bristles similar to your for sale sign to keep them straight and it helps but we are limited as to how long a rigid baffle can be due to the tool changer.

Its a major pain and cleaning up the spoil board every sheet sucks when there is a lot left behind.

Bruce Page

01-03-2017, 1:14 PM

There's nothing wrong with doing some R&D, I have a box full of it.
I try to limit my cutters to a 3" length. I have a couple of longer endmills that stick out beyond the bristles but only use them if I have to. When I bought my Kent shoe with 3" brush I also bought the 1/2" spacer and the 2" brush. I use the spacer often, I've used the 2" brush only once or twice.

Food for thought, I know of one guy that ran a small air line through his shoe with the nozzle pointed at the bit. He claimed that with low air pressure he was able to cut completely clean slots and the DC sucked up nearly100% with the cloud it created in the shoe.

Mark Bolton

01-03-2017, 1:46 PM

I have seen air nozzle mod and talked with a few large shops that have tried the AirPro (http://www.techniksusa.com/AirPRO/About_AirPRO.html) . As it seems, most go back to chips everywhere before long. Thats why I said its not an issue of the Kent not being good (have had several other issues with the Kent but as a static shoe its fine).

With an ATC its tough with regards to bit length. You may have drills that are longer, mills that are nice and short, and so on. You'd almost need to be standing there changing the shoe brush for each bit which defeats the convenience of running a 6 tool toolpath and leaving and doing something else lol.

Brad Shipton

01-03-2017, 2:55 PM

I am always using different tool lengths, so for now I pretty much follow with the vacuum. The Kent is a so so attempt, but I think one could come up with a more efficient design if so inclined. Eventually I plan to build add something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF6y7vCmZRE or the version by multicam (https://multicamcanada.wordpress.com/2011/11/01/active-dust-collector/). Adding the macro and the code to the cut files to lift the DC for the tool change is pretty easy. I am convinced that is about the only way for effective DC if you are using your machine for multiple material thicknesses and do not want a monster of a DC.

I too found very mixed reviews of the Airpro, plus it is costly. The Airpro seems best if you are working with melamine and using the same material thickness most of the time. It seems to take very little difference in thickness to reduce its efficiency greatly.

I added an air blast when I mounted my mister. I am still testing the idea.

Great thread David. I have been following to get an idea of what might be in store for me if I swap out my steppers. Mechanical repairs are fine for me, but I hate electrical things with a passion. I dread the idea of some of the work you have taken on. Good job.