Bloxygen?

[Greg Hines, MD]

I had not heard of this, but it sounded interesting. Anyone ever use it?

http://www.ptreeusa.com/edirect_070816_overstock.htm

[Mike Gresham]

I bought it to use on Waterlox. In the screw top can (Waterlox original), it does slow down the curing process in a partially used can, but it doesn't seem to stop it completely. Once the can is half empty, 2 months is about the outside limit in my experience. In a regular style quart of satin, it worked much better (6 months and counting). I'm not sure why, but suspect the small opening on the screw top can caused some sort of back pressure that pulled some of the Bloxygen back out of the can.

[John TenEyck]

I started using it on partially opened cans of Arm-R-Seal and after a few months the finish looks unchanged. Before a half empty can would gel in a few weeks or less.

John

[Matt Day]

I use it on arm-r-seal too. Works as advertised it seems. Trick is to keep the fluid level as high as possible no matter what, so transfer to a mason jar then apply bloxygen.

[Tom Bondy]

That is a great idea..will have to get some!

[Bill McNiel]

Works well to preserve WaterLox

[Dan Friedrichs]

It's just argon gas. $10 for that little bottle is also probably the most expensive argon gas in the world. Might be cheaper to go to your welding gas supplier and buy a "lecture bottle" of argon.

[Peter Kelly]

http://www.winevine-imports.com/private-preserver/?gdftrk=gdfV25114_a_7c1470_a_7c6154_a_7cSKU7863&gclid=CP70zKWe5M0CFRJbhgoduP8B0Q/

Same stuff, $8 / each. I've had Bloxygen cans drain themselves after 6 months so won't be buying from them agan.

[Lee Schierer]

Bloxygen has been around since at least 2009 and there have been several discussions here on SMC if you search for Bloxygen you can locate them.

[Michael Weber]

Won't any gas that displaces the oxygen work? Nitrogen? Helium?

[Kevin McCluney]

Whatever gas is used needs to be heavier than oxygen (hence helium is not an option) and non-reactive.

[Bill White]

I worked with an OLD feller who told me to just slightly crack the can lid and exhale several times into the container. Hmmmmm? Make sense? Yep! CO2 and nitrogen (some oxy. for sure). Been doing it for over 40 years. Never spent huge bucks for argon gas.
My finishes don't know the difference.
Bill

[Dan Friedrichs]

I worked with an OLD feller who told me to just slightly crack the can lid and exhale several times into the container. Hmmmmm? Make sense? Yep! CO2 and nitrogen (some oxy. for sure). Been doing it for over 40 years. Never spent huge bucks for argon gas.
My finishes don't know the difference.
Bill

Regular air is 21% oxygen; exhaled air is 18% oxygen. I doubt the 3% reduction in oxygen content is really making much difference...

[Malcolm McLeod]

Regular air is 21% oxygen; exhaled air is 18% oxygen. I doubt the 3% reduction in oxygen content is really making much difference...

Breathe into a bag until you're dizzy, then exhale into can. Should do the trick. (...Hey, Its Friday. Sarcasm is allowed. Right?)

[Prashun Patel]

http://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/clear-boston-rounds/4oz-brf4

I use these. I buy them in bulk but @ 0.77/pc it's a good buy bkz you can reuse them.

1 32 oz can of waterlox will dispense into 8 of these bottles to the top. Each bottle can (should) remain unopened with almost no oxygen in the headspace until used. I find 4 oz a convenient denomination to work in. Almost zero waste this way and no guess work. When the bottle's empty, wash with mineral spirits and let dry and reuse.

[Jerry Thompson]

I have been using canned air. The stuff you can by to dust off computers and such. I have a half can of Waterlox OSF that has been sitting for a year and it still is very liquid by the sound of things when I swirl the can around. I have used the canned air on other finishes with the same success.

[johnny means]

I keep the tops of my cans and lids clean. Then I properly seal the can. Finishes and paints last me years. There is no way half a can of paint or finish can be cured by half a can of air.

[Prashun Patel]

It may not cure, but it can certainly gel to the point of unusability. The half way point is the magic level for at least Waterlox, and I strongly suspect others Sealing isn't the issue. I have had waterlox in a half filled bottle with a clean cap gel up.

This happened to me with Epifanes and Minwax poly too. They skin over. Some say you can peel off the puddin' skin and then use what's underneath. I don;t take a chance. But with Waterlox, it becomes this gelatinous glob that is really not possible to to salvage.

[Sam Murdoch]

I've never had a failure with varnish after peeling off the "puddin' skin" but Waterlox turning to jello is a definite no use situation. Actually any sign of gel and I toss Waterlox. Bloxygen works of course but I prefer to pour off into other containers that I fill to the brim (or squeeze the Waterlox can to reduce the size. The squeeze only works for at most a 1/2 can of product and with rectangular containers with small screw on lids.

[Brian W Smith]

We've been using argon from one of the welders longer than I can remember,works fine.

[John K Jordan]

We've been using argon from one of the welders longer than I can remember,works fine.

I used argon from a spare tank for a while but now I use nitrogen since I have a spare tank and regulator. I believe nitrogen is a little lighter than oxygen so I just pump it in until I'm pretty sure almost all of the air is displaced and put on the lid. It is amazing how long finishes will last compared to doing nothing. Even half empty bottles of TruOil which used to get gummy pretty quick stay like new forever. One tank would be a 5-lifetime supply in the shop.

I'm going to try putting all my CA glue bottles in a container with nitrogen and see how that works.

I also use nitrogen to keep things like spare vanilla beans fresh. It would probably work for potato chips too if I ate potato chips.

JKJ

[Rich Riddle]

http://www.specialtybottle.com/glass-bottles/clear-boston-rounds/4oz-brf4

I use these. I buy them in bulk but @ 0.77/pc it's a good buy bkz you can reuse them.

1 32 oz can of waterlox will dispense into 8 of these bottles to the top. Each bottle can (should) remain unopened with almost no oxygen in the headspace until used. I find 4 oz a convenient denomination to work in. Almost zero waste this way and no guess work. When the bottle's empty, wash with mineral spirits and let dry and reuse.
That's the method I use when dealing with Waterlox as well. I found that Bloxygen didn't work well for Waterlox in the long haul.

[Scott Holmes]

To add to this great idea...

Don't use 4oz. plastic bottles... I have several that the Waterlox solidified in them, no air left I even topped them with bloxygen.

[Allan Speers]

I worked with an OLD feller who told me to just slightly crack the can lid and exhale several times into the container. Hmmmmm? Make sense? Yep! CO2 and nitrogen (some oxy. for sure). Been doing it for over 40 years. Never spent huge bucks for argon gas.
My finishes don't know the difference.
Bill

Yep, I've been doing this since 2005. I bought a large pack of straws & keep them in my finishes cabinet.

It works perfectly.

---------------------------


I like the above idea for small bottles, too, but I think I'd prefer to have wide mouths, so you can dip a brush in. Yeah, it's better to work for some poured out, but for quick jobs I always just dip.

[Brian W Smith]

John,Argon is a larger molecule,less leakage.We use rice in the kitchen but your nitrogen sounds great.

[John K Jordan]

John,Argon is a larger molecule,less leakage.We use rice in the kitchen but your nitrogen sounds great.

That makes sense. I found out about molecule size back in the 80s when my buddy and I started buying and playing with surplus glass HeNe lasers (before laser pointers). After some (long) time they would all quit lazing. A bit of research indicated the tiny Helium atoms eventually diffused right through the glass until the concentration was too low. The fix: put the tube in a chamber or an inverted bucket and fill with helium gas from below. The high pressure of the helium (compared to the relative vacuum in the tube) would force the molecules back through the glass. Amazing.

The nitrogen seems to stay in cans and bottles OK. For the vanilla beans and a couple of other small food items I put the bag in a larger zip lock bag and blow that up with nitrogen. It slowly leaks out over a week or two but I recharge when the bag is partially deflated.

(Another use for nitrogen, hopefully not in the kitchen, concerns assisting mice caught in live traps achieve nirvana in the afterlife.)

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

... Don't use 4oz. plastic bottles... I have several that the Waterlox solidified in them, no air left I even topped them with bloxygen.


Scott,

It may be that the plastic lets too much air (with oxygen) through the sides of the bottles. I can't reference any data on this but this note from the Mercury Adhesives company indicates moisture can pass through and makes me wonder about oxygen (BTW, best CA glue I've found and guaranteed not to set up):

2. What is the shelf life of CA? If properly made and packaged CA can last – 2+ years (Mercury has no time frame to its warranty). The bottle that the CA is packaged in is a vital link to the shelf life of CA. Mercury Chemist have tested over 4500 different HDPE resins and there are only a handful that can properly store CA and isolate the liquid inside from the moisture in the air. The cap or closure is also very important to sealing out the water vapors that exist in the air we breathe. The Mercury bottle uses proprietary resins in the molding of the bottle and has a highly engineered triple seal closure to keep moisture out and the product fresh. This is another reason why Mercury is the only company that offers an unconditional warranty on their products.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

... I've had Bloxygen cans drain themselves after 6 months so won't be buying from them agan.

Yikes, either you got bad can or I got a good one. I just checked and the one can of Bloxygen I bought long ago is still good. I don't remember exactly when I bought it but it was before I moved to this farm in 2003. If one lost it's gas in just six months on the shelf (as opposed to just using it up) I think contacting the company would be in order.

BTW, the Bloxygen FAQ indicates they use pure Argon gas. At some point they must of changed because my can indicates a mix of Nitrogen, Argon, and Carbon Dioxide.

340445

If others are also having the shelf life problem maybe they changed the quality of the seals on the can too.

JKJ

[Dan Friedrichs]

Yep, I've been doing this since 2005. I bought a large pack of straws & keep them in my finishes cabinet.

It works perfectly.

Have you compared doing this to not doing anything? It just seems awfully unlikely that reducing the oxygen percentage from ~21% to ~18% radically affects shelf life.

FWIW, we have a 20# CO2 tank in our kitchen (part of a home-built soda water making contraption). I use it for all sorts of things - half-full containers of guacamole, in particular, can be prevented from browning with a oxygen-displacing blast of CO2. No idea about Waterlox, though :)

[Prashun Patel]

Now that is smart thinking right there. Thanks Dan. Guacamole just got greener.

[Alan Lightstone]

It's just argon gas. $10 for that little bottle is also probably the most expensive argon gas in the world. Might be cheaper to go to your welding gas supplier and buy a "lecture bottle" of argon.

Looking online I get a quote of $258.00 for the lecture bottle of argon. And that's not including the regulator/hose/etc... It would take quite a number of Bloxygen bottles to equal that.

Rarely need to refill it, though, and you could always use it for wine and guacamole (who knew?)

[Allan Speers]

Scott,

It may be that the plastic lets too much air (with oxygen) through the sides of the bottles. I can't reference any data on this but this note from the Mercury Adhesives company indicates moisture can pass through and makes me wonder about oxygen (BTW, best CA glue I've found and guaranteed not to set up):

2. What is the shelf life of CA? If properly made and packaged CA can last – 2+ years (Mercury has no time frame to its warranty). The bottle that the CA is packaged in is a vital link to the shelf life of CA. Mercury Chemist have tested over 4500 different HDPE resins and there are only a handful that can properly store CA and isolate the liquid inside from the moisture in the air. The cap or closure is also very important to sealing out the water vapors that exist in the air we breathe. The Mercury bottle uses proprietary resins in the molding of the bottle and has a highly engineered triple seal closure to keep moisture out and the product fresh. This is another reason why Mercury is the only company that offers an unconditional warranty on their products.

JKJ


Very interesting. - And it makes me immediately think of shellac. Sure, most of use mix it in glass bottles, but almost everyone stores the flakes in plastic bags. Water vapor is what ruins shellac flakes.... do the math.

[John K Jordan]

Very interesting. - And it makes me immediately think of shellac. Sure, most of use mix it in glass bottles, but almost everyone stores the flakes in plastic bags. Water vapor is what ruins shellac flakes.... do the math.


Speaking of keeping water vapor out, a friend yesterday reminded me that a year or so I told him of a way to preserve CA glue, and good gravy, it actually DID it. It put his CA glue bottles in a jar with desiccant beads. Over a year now and they are still like new. Should work for shellac too.

I like the indicator type of beads that change from bright blue to pink to let you know when it's time to re-dry them.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OUXA2Q


JKJ

[Allan Speers]

Speaking of keeping water vapor out, a friend yesterday reminded me that a year or so I told him of a way to preserve CA glue, and good gravy, it actually DID it. It put his CA glue bottles in a jar with desiccant beads. Over a year now and they are still like new. Should work for shellac too.

I like the indicator type of beads that change from bright blue to pink to let you know when it's time to re-dry them.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OUXA2Q

JKJ


Brilliant idea !

[Jeff Bartley]

Has anyone here tried dropping marbles into a can of waterlox to take up the airspace at the top?

I just opened a (mostly) used up can this evening and found a gloppy mess of gelatinous finish. It's weird: I used it just days ago and it was fine.

Jeff (who's now worried about a half used can of epifanes)

[John TenEyck]

No, I just stick with Bloxygen. I'm sure marbles work fine, but then you've got a mess of sticky marbles when the finish is gone.

I suggest you put some Bloxygen in that can of Epifanes right quick, or marbles. I lost a half full can before I realized how cheap Bloxgen really is.

John

[Alan Lightstone]

Has anyone here tried dropping marbles into a can of waterlox to take up the airspace at the top?

I just opened a (mostly) used up can this evening and found a gloppy mess of gelatinous finish. It's weird: I used it just days ago and it was fine.

Jeff (who's now worried about a half used can of epifanes)

Yes, I did the marbles for a while, then just switched back to Bloxygen. It's just easier, and the can doesn't start to weigh a ton with the marbles in it, and you don't have to go through lots of mineral spirits to clean off the marbles when you're done. Just wound up being more work.

[Steve Hubbard]

Stop Loss Bags have worked better for me than Bloxygen or marbles. It takes a little practice to get all of the air bubbles out of the bag before screwing on the lid. Practice with water before wasting Waterlox.

[Alan Lightstone]

Stop Loss Bags have worked better for me than Bloxygen or marbles. It takes a little practice to get all of the air bubbles out of the bag before screwing on the lid. Practice with water before wasting Waterlox.

I've switched over to Stop Loss Bags for many of my finishes. They're a little bit of a pain (especially to clean the funnel), but they do seem to get the finish intact. IMHO.

[Ted Phillips]

I use stop-loss bags as well, but mostly for wax/oil mixtures that are a bit thicker and easier to handle in the pouch. For oil-based finishes like TruOil and Waterlox, I just use a squirt of Bloxygen in their original containers.