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Keith Winter
07-05-2016, 10:02 AM
So the time is finally here for everyone that has been delaying upgrading to Windows 10, per Microsoft you have to upgrade by July 29th 2016, or you will get charged to upgrade in the future.

A couple of questions...

Anyone running reworks v8 on a Windows 10 pc, does it work ok?

Anyone running Trotec Job control on Windows 10? If so what version? Does it work ok?

Brian Leavitt
07-05-2016, 10:13 AM
I run RDWorks V8 and Corel X7 on my Windows 10 laptop. I have had zero issues with either.

Gary Hair
07-05-2016, 11:23 AM
I am running the latest Job Control on Win 10 and it works just fine. Also running Corel X5, X6, X8, Ezcad, and Rip for my DCS UV printer - all working just fine.

Kev Williams
07-05-2016, 11:43 AM
I've been avoiding with a passion letting my win8.1 upgrade to 10.
80% of my machinery and 100% of my office equipment will NOT work with a 64bit Vista machine, let alone 7, and 8 is 99% useless to me.

But then, if 8 = 99% useless, I guess 10 can't be much worse. But we shall see.

I'm going to reluctantly let this stupid win8 computer upgrade to 10 - after I replace it with my idle Win7 Enterprise first, because, I'll bet a buck that once 10 is going, I'll lose the ablilty to run my IS400 with it, which is the ONLY reason I DO use the 8.1...

Mark Taylor2
07-05-2016, 12:07 PM
If you're running Win7, it will be supported until 2020. If you want to totally avoid the Win10 upgrade without having to sort through all the upgrades, read tech sites, etc... go install and run this in "monitor" mode: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html

Those of us in IT have had a lot of headaches with the Win10 "upgrade" including drivers not work, upgrades failing, roll-backs failing.... etc.

Bill George
07-05-2016, 12:58 PM
If you're running Win7, it will be supported until 2020. If you want to totally avoid the Win10 upgrade without having to sort through all the upgrades, read tech sites, etc... go install and run this in "monitor" mode: http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html

Those of us in IT have had a lot of headaches with the Win10 "upgrade" including drivers not work, upgrades failing, roll-backs failing.... etc.

The company my wife works for and she helps provide customer support for a one of a kind software, is preparing for the worst with the forced Win 10. I say forced because customers are duped into the upgrade and the latest trick from Microsoft is clicking on the X to close the Upgrade Window actually does the install!!
Her sister who owns a Vet clinic was duped into it, and even her internet expert was unable to get it to roll back. Her office software will NOT run on 10 and now she needs to pay a couple thousand for a new version that will! Remember if you have Windows Update Automatically check for upgrades and install on your Windows computer, Win 10 is a Recommended upgrade.... ding.
The program above that Mark posted is what I have on all my Windows 7 computers and it works. Pay the guy, its worth it.

Dave Sheldrake
07-05-2016, 1:05 PM
Running GWX on 11 machines, I need the trouble win 10 causes as much as I need Ebola

John Noell
07-05-2016, 1:22 PM
If you upgrade directly from Win 7 (or 8) to 10 (i.e., no clean install) earlier versions of CorelDraw (usually) work. But if you try to install anything earlier than X7 AFTER doing a clean install, you are likely to get a message saying it won't do it (and it really won't work properly if you manage to force it).

FWIW, I backed up my Win 7 box (complete drive archive), installed Win10, connected to Internet and let it automatically activate, then put the archived Win7 back on. Now, I can wait for a need to switch. Whenever I put Win10 on this computer it will automatically activate again. (Actually, activation seems to be tied to the motherboard alone in my testing.) My laser is happy with Win7 and I like X4 (although I also own a legit X7).

David Somers
07-05-2016, 2:49 PM
I am not having any problems with RDWorks 8x on Windows 10 that I didnt have on Windows 7. Windows 7 was relatively stable for me. 8 was misery. 10 is better but worse than 7 in terms of annoying things. RDWorks and Corel have all behaved like they have in Win 7, 8 and 10.

One thought for you folks faced with the upgrade of Windows. Make sure you make a full backup of your machine now even if you have no intention of upgrading. Be safe. And you might consider making the backup a full disk image. It will speed your recovery if you accidentally get upgraded and want to reverse time. Or if you are overcome by some other computer tragedy like ransomware or a full hard disk failure. There are a number of good disk imaging systems out there and they are very helpful when the proverbial Merde and the fan meet.

Kev Williams
07-05-2016, 6:18 PM
Backup my machine... lol. There's nothing on my win8 of any importance. Same with my Vista laptop. Never trusted either one in the first place! If both were wiped clean it would affect me zero...

Hmm-- does the free upgrade include Vista too? The laptop is actually a good candidate for win10... Maybe I'll find a reason to use it? ;)

David Somers
07-05-2016, 6:43 PM
I would back it up anyway Kev. Especially if you use an imaging package to do it. A disk image can restore the entire machine in a pretty short period of time (20 minutes? Depends on the disk size). Beats having to go through hours of a rebuild if you ever needed to wipe the machine.

Wilbur Harris
07-07-2016, 10:09 AM
David's telling it right! If you need it - back it up!!

Dave Stevens-Vegas
07-07-2016, 9:17 PM
I've been avoiding with a passion letting my win8.1 upgrade to 10.
80% of my machinery and 100% of my office equipment will NOT work with a 64bit Vista machine, let alone 7, and 8 is 99% useless to me.

But then, if 8 = 99% useless, I guess 10 can't be much worse. But we shall see.

I'm going to reluctantly let this stupid win8 computer upgrade to 10 - after I replace it with my idle Win7 Enterprise first, because, I'll bet a buck that once 10 is going, I'll lose the ablilty to run my IS400 with it, which is the ONLY reason I DO use the 8.1...

If you have instances where you have vertical apps that require an older version of Windows you should always have cloned disks or spares available to swap them. A Torchmate 2 machine (with parallel port no less) is the only thing I use now in the shop that needs to be an old standalone.

At this point Win 7 has been in the wild for seven years. Any apps that require anything prior to that should be evaluated. I still see (but don't use) quite a few machines that require XP and some even an old school parallel port. This shows the mechanical aspects of the machine have outlived the controller/software side of the machine.



If you're running Win7, it will be supported until 2020.

While the end of life date is in 2020, consumer support ended for Win 7 about a year ago. There is the possibility of getting paid, per incident support for single license users. The remaining updates are limited to security patches. Win 7 is done. Time to move on if your app supports it.

Bill George
07-08-2016, 9:06 AM
Most of the people on here are using their computers to run machines. You don't need a Windows 10 computer to run a laser that is 2 or 3 or even 10 years old. The only way Microsoft can generate income is to make your old software obsolete. Other than the kids who download music and videos why would someone need a new Windows 10 computer?

Lee DeRaud
07-08-2016, 10:12 AM
Most of the people on here are using their computers to run machines. You don't need a Windows 10 computer to run a laser that is 2 or 3 or even 10 years old. The only way Microsoft can generate income is to make your old software obsolete. Other than the kids who download music and videos why would someone need a new Windows 10 computer?I'm still not convinced there's any advantage to using Win10 (vs Win7) on a non-touch machine.

That said, the one machine I own with Win10 installed is a Surface Book: a truly amazing combination. Win10 and the hardware are integrated rather closely, for obvious reasons...sometimes it really does make sense to get the HW and OS from the same vendor.

Keith Winter
07-08-2016, 3:51 PM
Most of the people on here are using their computers to run machines. You don't need a Windows 10 computer to run a laser that is 2 or 3 or even 10 years old. The only way Microsoft can generate income is to make your old software obsolete. Other than the kids who download music and videos why would someone need a new Windows 10 computer?

Not necessary for the immediate future, but I'm going to go ahead and upgrade all of our pcs. I view it as future proofing us a bit, you know what they say, skip every other version of Windows... I HATED Windows 8, so we never upgraded. I've been running Windows 10 for only a few days, but I will say it's just fine so far, much like Windows 7. RDWORKS8 works fine for me as well. I'm going to try installing it on my Trotec pc when I have a chance too.

Rich Harman
07-08-2016, 4:15 PM
Here's a report of someone suing Microsoft over the forced upgrade;

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/06/27/0211219/woman-wins-10000-lawsuit-against-microsoft-over-windows-10-upgrades

Bill George
07-08-2016, 5:19 PM
Here's a report of someone suing Microsoft over the forced upgrade;

https://tech.slashdot.org/story/16/06/27/0211219/woman-wins-10000-lawsuit-against-microsoft-over-windows-10-upgrades

Thanks for post Rich I am going to forward to my sister in law the Vet who is so mad that now her office computer won't run the "special" software they require. Yes they had to pay for customer support to come in and fix things up. Those people with that "special" software don't do anything for free!

Dave Stevens-Vegas
07-10-2016, 11:08 PM
Most of the people on here are using their computers to run machines. You don't need a Windows 10 computer to run a laser that is 2 or 3 or even 10 years old. The only way Microsoft can generate income is to make your old software obsolete. Other than the kids who download music and videos why would someone need a new Windows 10 computer?


I'm still not convinced there's any advantage to using Win10 (vs Win7) on a non-touch machine.

On the Win 10 machines on both the standalone machine for the laser and the VM I use on the daily driver Win10 is noticeably faster with respect to the interface. With X8 renders are faster, the program responds faster. With Retina Engrave, not so much. Still takes 60 to 90 secs to process my normal plates of parts. I took them up on the upgrade offer on the laser machine more or less to get it at no cost. I figured I could remove the drive and use the OS in another machine if it didn't work. It works great.

It's in the realm of tin foil hat land to think MS is purposely upgrading the OS just to get money from you. There are differences with respect to how each version of software works and generally there are technical improvements. Many of these changes you don't see primarily those that make it easier and faster for developers to write better programs. That's the kind of thing you don't see as a user.

Kev Williams
07-10-2016, 11:35 PM
Here's a novel idea-- How about upgrading the old software with new tricks, apps, touch screens, etc etc, but how about NOT removing all the tricks the OLD software did!?? People-- like ME even- would GLADLY pay for a new version of Windows, AS LONG AS IT STILL DID WHAT THE OLD VERSION DID!

I have 15 machines I use to make a living, software that allows me to run the machines, an HP laser printer/copier in the office, and Quickbooks on the office computer.

-My Casmate software, which I use almost as much as Corel, requires a WinME or OLDER computer. I have a win98se running that right now-

-Same for my old Opensys engraving software, but I only use it because it's there, I can replace it (but it's the only one I would!)

-My Quickbooks will NOT run on a 64 bit computer, and neither will the printer. They crash when looking for a specific 32 bit folder that doesn't exist...

-My LS900 laser requires a parallel or serial port to run it, and the drivers for it won't load on anything above win7.

-The Explorer laser I bought from Gary will connect via USB, but won't connect to any 64 bit OS. I had to find an XP to replace the win7 enterprise computer when I got it!

My vinyl cutter, Concept 2000, V3200, V5000, two V5000-XT's, and three V3400's all work perfectly and make me money, but ALL require parallel or serial connections, and win8 or above won't load the generic drivers correctly...And they don't have LPT or serial ports anyway (and USB adapters aren't at ALL reliable)

My IS400, IS7000, the Triumph laser and my new Triumph fiber are the ONLY machines I have that will run on a newer computer.

I cant just go buy new machines and office equipment just because new versions of Windows won't run them. If I did I'd go bankrupt.

Make an OS and a computer with all the old legacy crap intact, and I'd pay GOOD money for it... Until then, XP till I retire. Microsoft can go pound sand.

Dave Stevens-Vegas
07-11-2016, 12:43 AM
Kev, your issue isn't the advancement of operating systems but in the management of your technology cycle. That's all good and well you want to use older, unsupported software but it's an issue for the software vendor not keeping pace with changing technology. It's not realistic to expect OS devs to support decade old software. In your case some of the host OS are nearing 20 years old.Businesses that can't keep the technology cycle current to within 5 years or so need to re-evaluate the business model. Instead of complaining about technology moving on you need to develop a strategy of dealing with equipment that's outdated compared to the state of computing.

Bill George
07-11-2016, 7:56 AM
Kev, your issue isn't the advancement of operating systems but in the management of your technology cycle. That's all good and well you want to use older, unsupported software but it's an issue for the software vendor not keeping pace with changing technology. It's not realistic to expect OS devs to support decade old software. In your case some of the host OS are nearing 20 years old.Businesses that can't keep the technology cycle current to within 5 years or so need to re-evaluate the business model. Instead of complaining about technology moving on you need to develop a strategy of dealing with equipment that's outdated compared to the state of computing.

He does not Need to improve the machine software, its working and making him money right now. What in the new Windows 10 interface and Corel X8 does someone who just designs for and runs a laser engraver Need?

If you really want to speed up your system install a solid state hard drive. I have the Samsung SSD 250 Gb in both my older Lenovo laptops and they have amazing speed. Cost less than $100 each and comes with the HD imaging software. You do need to spend $15 or so for the HD (and mine was a 2.5 inch) to USB adapter. Bonus you now have a back up drive.

Keith Winter
07-11-2016, 9:10 AM
It's in the realm of tin foil hat land to think MS is purposely upgrading the OS just to get money from you. There are differences with respect to how each version of software works and generally there are technical improvements. Many of these changes you don't see primarily those that make it easier and faster for developers to write better programs. That's the kind of thing you don't see as a user.

It's possible windows 10 is also a new code base for Microsoft with a second side to it which allows it to run legacy windows 7/8 programs. By forcing us to upgrade they may save money as they won't have to maintain support for windows 7/8 for nearly as long as they did with XP. Also as Dave pointed out, there are likely many speed improvements in windows 10 that newer programs can utilize.

Al Launier
07-11-2016, 10:03 AM
I was waiting until the last minute to upgrade from W8.1 to W10 thinking that any issue with W10 might be resolved by then. However, after reading some of the posts above it dawned on me to call Chief Architect CS to see if my version 10 of CA would work with W10. The response was that there are some issues with CA10 & W10 that Chief Architect will not resolve. So, since I use CA for house designs on occasions, I decided not to upgrade to W10, especially since I have & like W8.1.

Bill George
07-11-2016, 10:57 AM
If Win 10 has some secret code to grandfather in the old XP, 7 and 8.2 software its been very well hidden. For every person who does not have problems with the upgrade there are just as many that do. Why does M$ have to trick people into upgrading??

Still waiting for parts to finish my 6 watt diode laser engraver upgrade.

Lee DeRaud
07-11-2016, 11:17 AM
Many of these changes you don't see primarily those that make it easier and faster for developers to write better programs. That's the kind of thing you don't see as a user.AKA "changes I don't care about"...and that's speaking as someone who used to develop software for a living. Note that a lot (most?) of those developer-oriented changes aren't so devs can make better software, it's so they can port desktop/laptop software to tablets and phones. The problem is, the resulting "universal" app is biased toward the least-common-denominator platform.

I don't ascribe sinister monetary motives to MS, so don't lump me in with the tinfoil hat crowd. But they certainly seem to be pandering to the "desktop is dead" meme.

Lee DeRaud
07-11-2016, 11:31 AM
If Win 10 has some secret code to grandfather in the old XP, 7 and 8.2 software its been very well hidden.Win10's compatibility at the app level has generally been very good. At the driver level...not so much. (Data point: I got the scanner in my older Brother all-in-one printer to work even though Brother's tech support claimed it was impossible. But it took some fiddling to convince it to install the Win7 app without trying to replace the Win10 driver.)

A lot of that is self-inflicted: they instituted a policy that pretty much requires drivers to be MS-certified to install in Win10 even if they run perfectly well without modification. Will that prevent some hacks from occurring? Possibly, but it does smack somewhat of an Apple-style control obsession. (Side note: I'm a bit curious to see if it's even possible for GNU-license open-source driver-level code to exist under that regime.)

David Somers
07-11-2016, 12:42 PM
Keep in mind as I say this that I hate Windows after years of administering it. But, one thing they are doing, other than trying to clean up their spaghetti code of upgrades that have made Win XP and on insanely large systems, is to improve its ability to work with the newer processors, and to blend the experience of a phone/tablet/desktop so that if you know one you pretty much know the others. And most importantly, they have made vast improvements in their security for the Operating System. And your OS is your most important line of defense when it comes to security. Your firewall and your Antivirus and anti Malware are important, but a huge part of your vulnerability rests in the OS and how well it is patched and updated. Microsoft is trying to reduce itself as a source for virus infections in the world, as well as reduce the amount of infections that affect its users. And that is one reason why they are pushing so hard to get folks to upgrade, AND gave you a years free opportunity to upgrade as well. And it is also why for the home versions of this OS upgrades will come in and deploy without giving you a choice about it. Only the Pro version lets you choose to accept an OS update or not under Win 10. The idea is to keep things patched the way apple and linux do and cut down the number of badly outdated machines (outdated in security terms.)

Hope that helps a little. It still annoys the heck out of me to have my computer force a reboot when I am working on it. I can deal with this by a change in my habits. But it is still annoying as heck. When my Mac was alive and well it handled this kind of thing without making me use my mouse pad to blunt the force of my forehead repeatedly hitting the table. (the true purpose of those foam rubber mousepads in case you weren't aware)

Kev Williams
07-11-2016, 3:46 PM
Kev, your issue isn't the advancement of operating systems but in the management of your technology cycle. That's all good and well you want to use older, unsupported software but it's an issue for the software vendor not keeping pace with changing technology. It's not realistic to expect OS devs to support decade old software. In your case some of the host OS are nearing 20 years old.Businesses that can't keep the technology cycle current to within 5 years or so need to re-evaluate the business model. Instead of complaining about technology moving on you need to develop a strategy of dealing with equipment that's outdated compared to the state of computing.

"...management of my technology style", now that's funny right there. I don't have a technology style. I still use a Motorola flip-phone. Same reason I use old machines, it does what I need it to do. :)

The combined ages of my machines is over 275 years, and of all those years of service I've had only 2 "major" breakdowns, both of which were power supplies. And aside from my NH rep fixing bugs in my EP modules occasionally (which aren't actually 'machines', they're computers), I've NEVER paid a soul to work on any of them. All maintenance and the very few repairs I have to do, I've done myself since 1973 (or 1981 if we get computerized-specific)

Paid for proven reliability, or pay $100 grand to enter the reliability twilight zone and take my chances... let me think....

David Somers
07-11-2016, 4:35 PM
Kev....it is only money after all! <grin>

Curt Harms
07-12-2016, 8:45 AM
Microsoft is trying to reduce itself as a source for virus infections in the world, as well as reduce the amount of infections that affect its users. And that is one reason why they are pushing so hard to get folks to upgrade, AND gave you a years free opportunity to upgrade as well. And it is also why for the home versions of this OS upgrades will come in and deploy without giving you a choice about it.

If Microsoft had divided their updates into real security updates and non-security related updates giving an option on the non-security updates there might be fewer hard feelings. Though I don't know that 95% of home users know or care about the difference.

Lee DeRaud
07-12-2016, 10:30 AM
But, one thing they are doing [is] to blend the experience of a phone/tablet/desktop so that if you know one you pretty much know the others.Am I the only one who thinks making a car work just like a bicycle is a dumb idea?

David Somers
07-12-2016, 2:08 PM
Lee!

Being a bicycle rider myself I think that is a GREAT idea!!!! Though the idea of peddling a car up some of the hills in Seattle is a bit intimidating. My thighs and calves are big enough as it is. <grin> I do like the idea of replacing the horn on a car with a bell mounted on the steering wheel though!

Bill George
07-12-2016, 2:21 PM
What a novel idea? Make an OS the same on say a phone, tablet and then a laptop computer... maybe even a desktop? I sure wish Apple could come up with something like that instead of being in the dark ages like they are. ;)

PS I own all off the above except for the desktop one.

Lee DeRaud
07-12-2016, 6:27 PM
Lee!

Being a bicycle rider myself I think that is a GREAT idea!!!! Though the idea of peddling a car up some of the hills in Seattle is a bit intimidating. My thighs and calves are big enough as it is. <grin> I do like the idea of replacing the horn on a car with a bell mounted on the steering wheel though!Works (or not) both ways: $1K/year for insurance to ride your bike. And that's after you install seatbelts and airbags...plus a catalytic converter to handle the methane emissions from the "engine".

David Somers
07-12-2016, 6:41 PM
Lee!

Very true! Guess I have to cut back on beans in my diet and re-budget for the new insurance costs. Sigh.

Dave Stevens-Vegas
07-13-2016, 10:47 PM
If you really want to speed up your system install a solid state hard drive. I have the Samsung SSD 250 Gb in both my older Lenovo laptops and they have amazing speed. I haven't used magnetic disk drives for a few years now. An SSD is considered standard fare. The issue some with very old machines will have is the drive controller won't interface though you can get SSDs now with a parallel interface.


AKA "changes I don't care about"...and that's speaking as someone who used to develop software for a living. Note that a lot (most?) of those developer-oriented changes aren't so devs can make better software, it's so they can port desktop/laptop software to tablets and phones. The problem is, the resulting "universal" app is biased toward the least-common-denominator platform.


There haven't been attempts common code bases for mobile and desktop for several years. It hasn't been that way for the better part of 10 years now. For the last 5 or 6 years it's not even been possible to use much, if any of a common code base. Mobile and desktop are two entirely different animals these days. In the case of Win 10 it is APIs that add more functionality to the OS where devs don't have to roll their own solutions. The decline in desktop use isn't a meme. It's a reality of the business.



"...management of my technology style", now that's funny right there. I don't have a technology style. I still use a Motorola flip-phone. Same reason I use old machines, it does what I need it to do. :)
.

Do try and keep up Kev. I said technology cycle, not style. Just because you want to use 15 year old software it doesn't mean the man is out to get you.

Kev Williams
07-13-2016, 11:35 PM
Cycle, style, pretty much the same thing at my age ;)
...and I know the man's not out to GET me.
But he's not doing me any favors either.

Bill Cunningham
07-30-2016, 7:40 PM
My wife turned on her laptop one morning, and behold it had been upgraded to win10 with the option of going back to win7 . Now it would make no difference to her, she only uses Facebook and the games. But the fact that they just installed 10 without permission 'p'd me off, so I selected the reinstall 7 option and it took over an hour to return the computer to its original state. If this had happened to my business machine, I would have billed them for the time involved.

Michael Hunter
08-01-2016, 2:03 PM
For those that *have* updated to Windows 10, the "Anniversary Update" is due to start rolling out tomorrow - and everything will look different again!

Bill George
08-01-2016, 2:19 PM
For those that *have* updated to Windows 10, the "Anniversary Update" is due to start rolling out tomorrow - and everything will look different again!

My wife against my advice upgraded to Windows 10, it took a slow computer on Windows 7 to one just about impossible to use. I was going to upgrade her laptop memory fro 4 to 8 Gb. In spite of using the Crucial downloaded scanner that memory would not work on her computer with Windows 10, same with taking the OEM part number off the installed memory and crossing over... did not work with 10, but it passed the boot up Bios check just fine. OEM memory back, boots great.

Upgrading to a SSD drive. It took me two days of screwing around to finally get the Samsung drive clone software to work right in Windows 10 and to stop Norton's.
All works fine now, except its still at 4 Gb but the SSD doubled the speed. I can hardly wait for the Anniversary Upgrade :(

David Somers
08-04-2016, 4:06 PM
Well,

Happy Anniversary Microsoft! The upgrade went smooth as silk!!! This laptop was made for Windows 10 and came with it installed originally so one would expect that it would accept a mere feature upgrade in the existing OS quite well. (my experience with lengthy multiple reboots and diagnosing problems on each and every other upgrade of Windows 10 to date being no indication of future problems of course.)

It started at about midnight last night, forcing me off the computer while I was working of course. Hung 3 times. By 6am it had actually started prepping for the install for real. 8 reboots later, during which it let me know that it was continuing to prep the machine for the installation and warning me this might take some time, it was ready to begin the install at 10am. By noon it had finished with only 3 reboots and that helpful message about some time being needed for completion.

After it came up it had....
Killed my external monitor and HDMI port.
Killed all my USB 2 and 3 ports, which included my mouse, keyboard, and backupdrive.
Killed my internal wifi NIC. And of course on a modern laptop there is no need for an RJ-45 connection.
Started telling me my original power supply was not OEM and was underpowered so it was reducing the processor speeds in compensation.
Recognized 4 of my 16GB of RAM.
Disabled my AV and Firewall and anti malware software requiring that they all be re-registered and re-activated.
Killed Aspire. It appears it will need a reinstallation.
Corel 7 no longer holds its SN so I have to work with them to get it active again, or reinstall.
And that is as far as I have tried to look so far. Am working slowly to get everything back up. A bit awkward since I have no connectivity and am walking upstairs and downstairs to my wife's Imac in order to get drivers and software from the web.
Oooooh! I just got it to see my wifi!! Saints be praised! There goes my exercise program for the day however.

I am glad this was an anniversary edition feature update and not something serious. I might have encountered problems then.

When done I am gonna see if I can run my laser off a 1974 TI Programmable Calculator. If I can it will be a pleasant walk down to the Fauntleroy Ferry Terminal where I can enjoy the ferry ride over to Vashon Island, dropping my Windows Laptop into the deepest part of the Sound on the way, and then enjoying a quadruple Margarita at the far dock before coming back home.

Otherwise I will continue trouble shooting this PoS Operating System. (lest you be offended. PoS stands for "Piece of Superbness" Operating System.)

And people wonder why I dont miss working in IT on Windows systems anymore?

Hope the update went better for everyone else. BTW. Be sure to check out the way this update is changing how Cortana works with your system and the privacy implications. Be sure you are OK with it, not that you have a choice if you keep your windows 10 machine on the web. I wont go into details since this is largely a matter of preference, and I am running high on unexploded invective right now. <grin>

Cheers All!

Bill George
08-04-2016, 5:43 PM
OMG I just got the computer that my wife uses ALL the time working. Does it ask to do the upgrade or is it just an automatic thing!!!

Bert Kemp
08-04-2016, 7:09 PM
Congratulations Dave I'm so happy things went well for you:D Since it was so easy for you I think I'll forgo any upgrades at all ever. I did do an upgrade to 10 when the free upgrade first came out. I could no longer watch netflix or listen to music . I immediately switched back to win 7.Good luck.




Well,

Happy Anniversary Microsoft! The upgrade went smooth as silk!!! This laptop was made for Windows 10 and came with it installed originally so one would expect that it would accept a mere feature upgrade in the existing OS quite well. (my experience with lengthy multiple reboots and diagnosing problems on each and every other upgrade of Windows 10 to date being no indication of future problems of course.)

It started at about midnight last night, forcing me off the computer while I was working of course. Hung 3 times. By 6am it had actually started prepping for the install for real. 8 reboots later, during which it let me know that it was continuing to prep the machine for the installation and warning me this might take some time, it was ready to begin the install at 10am. By noon it had finished with only 3 reboots and that helpful message about some time being needed for completion.

After it came up it had....
Killed my external monitor and HDMI port.
Killed all my USB 2 and 3 ports, which included my mouse, keyboard, and backupdrive.
Killed my internal wifi NIC. And of course on a modern laptop there is no need for an RJ-45 connection.
Started telling me my original power supply was not OEM and was underpowered so it was reducing the processor speeds in compensation.
Recognized 4 of my 16GB of RAM.
Disabled my AV and Firewall and anti malware software requiring that they all be re-registered and re-activated.
Killed Aspire. It appears it will need a reinstallation.
Corel 7 no longer holds its SN so I have to work with them to get it active again, or reinstall.
And that is as far as I have tried to look so far. Am working slowly to get everything back up. A bit awkward since I have no connectivity and am walking upstairs and downstairs to my wife's Imac in order to get drivers and software from the web.
Oooooh! I just got it to see my wifi!! Saints be praised! There goes my exercise program for the day however.

I am glad this was an anniversary edition feature update and not something serious. I might have encountered problems then.

When done I am gonna see if I can run my laser off a 1974 TI Programmable Calculator. If I can it will be a pleasant walk down to the Fauntleroy Ferry Terminal where I can enjoy the ferry ride over to Vashon Island, dropping my Windows Laptop into the deepest part of the Sound on the way, and then enjoying a quadruple Margarita at the far dock before coming back home.

Otherwise I will continue trouble shooting this PoS Operating System. (lest you be offended. PoS stands for "Piece of Superbness" Operating System.)

And people wonder why I dont miss working in IT on Windows systems anymore?

Hope the update went better for everyone else. BTW. Be sure to check out the way this update is changing how Cortana works with your system and the privacy implications. Be sure you are OK with it, not that you have a choice if you keep your windows 10 machine on the web. I wont go into details since this is largely a matter of preference, and I am running high on unexploded invective right now. <grin>

Cheers All!

Keith Winter
08-04-2016, 7:12 PM
Windows 10 upgrade went smoother for me than expected, out of multiples pcs only 2 gave me trouble. Seems to work fine with Trotec Job Control 10.4.2 as well. It's actually very much like windows 7.

Gerry Grzadzinski
08-04-2016, 9:47 PM
Happy Anniversary Microsoft! The upgrade went smooth as silk!!!


Took a long time to download, but installed in about 10 minutes or so. Everything works like it did before the update, so yes, pretty much smooth as silk.

This was on my laptop. The update hasn't shown up on my desktop yet.
Both machines are running Windows 10 Pro.

Kev Williams
08-04-2016, 11:42 PM
Killed my external monitor and HDMI port.
Killed all my USB 2 and 3 ports, which included my mouse, keyboard, and backupdrive.
Killed my internal wifi NIC. And of course on a modern laptop there is no need for an RJ-45 connection.
Started telling me my original power supply was not OEM and was underpowered so it was reducing the processor speeds in compensation.
Recognized 4 of my 16GB of RAM.
Disabled my AV and Firewall and anti malware software requiring that they all be re-registered and re-activated.
Killed Aspire. It appears it will need a reinstallation.
Corel 7 no longer holds its SN so I have to work with them to get it active again, or reinstall.

I am glad this was an anniversary edition feature update and not something serious. I might have encountered problems then.


yet another reason... ;)

Mark Taylor2
08-05-2016, 12:45 AM
You was warned, Dave. :D No updates to Win10 here, ever. I'll keep our machines on Win7 and when the time comes, I'm headed to Linux Mint. I've been testing one machine with it and so far... the laser is working, all is well. Can't upgrade the rest until the wife is done with a project that she's in the middle of.

Oh.. and it came out this week that with the "Anniversary Edition", you can't kill off the telemetry or Cortana. MS is replacing Santa Claus on knowing who's been naughty or nice.:rolleyes:

David Somers
08-05-2016, 1:36 AM
Hey Mark,

Long story, but at the time I bought this I was faced with replacing a recently dead Macbook Pro and having to run Win something anyway. Or just biting the bullet and buying a Windows machine for far far less. I know Windows. Have administered and supported upwards of 500 machines and 11 networks for many many years so I knew what was coming. I think the problems I am seeing with Win 10 may be a mix of issues on this specific machine and Win10. Will take a long session of digging to find it though. Not looking forward to it. Have thought about going Linux. I already run it in virtual machines so it is not foreign to me. Will see what happens. In the meantime though, this was excessive even for Windows. I had to chuckle. I am now retired and after going through this warned my old office what I experienced. They have not been permitted to upgrade to Win10 yet except on "test machines" and they are suffering mightily with Win8.1 right now. They are now starting to look at 8.1 a little more kindly.

Anyway, at some point will add a Mac back in, but not now. Got too many expenses kicking around. And I really dont want to fuss with Linux yet. Am not THAT pissed at Microsoft yet. Though the Cortana thing has me pissed on top of the behavior of this anniversary update. Rrrrrrrr.

Mark Taylor2
08-05-2016, 1:53 AM
Dave,
It's good that you're knowledgeable on this. I did support for too many years and the place I retired from is still one Win7 (good for them). I'm still friends with the guy who did the set up and testing of the PC's so he's been keeping me up to date along with a couple of tech sites that I read.

It's probably as you say a compatibility issue. Win10 doesn't have the full driver set and there's still "issues". The one that smacked me yesterday was the announcement that they will track your usage of Edge and provide you a "personalized experience"... Apparently, they're blocking AdBlock also.

If you can't get it working right, word is, format the drive and clean install from the ISO, but you probably know that.

Be good...

Curt Harms
08-05-2016, 8:00 AM
You was warned, Dave. :D No updates to Win10 here, ever. I'll keep our machines on Win7 and when the time comes, I'm headed to Linux Mint. I've been testing one machine with it and so far... the laser is working, all is well. Can't upgrade the rest until the wife is done with a project that she's in the middle of.

Oh.. and it came out this week that with the "Anniversary Edition", you can't kill off the telemetry or Cortana. MS is replacing Santa Claus on knowing who's been naughty or nice.:rolleyes:

I wouldn't be surprised if MS and their telemetry will spawn another cottage industry, this one add-ons to control MS's snooping. One method I've read about is to adjust firewall rules on your router to divert the contents of MS' telemetry to /dev/null, in other words to a place it will never be seen again. I wonder how small businesses will deal with this? 'Upgrade' to the Enterprise version? That seems like an onerous & expensive proposition for 1 or 2 or 3 machines. Or wait for Microsoft to offer a version that sends only machine and O.S. info - no personal info - for a fee of course?

Bill George
08-05-2016, 8:50 AM
So there is no happy ending for the "free" forced Windows 10 install? The Anniversary upgrade was just adding more spying for Micro$oft. Does the pay for Edition the Pro series still have the spy mode?

Kev Williams
08-05-2016, 10:00 AM
The one that smacked me yesterday was the announcement that they will track your usage of Edge and provide you a "personalized experience"... No, it will provide THEM with knowledge of everything you do online. And from what I've read and heard, tracking 'Edge' is just the tip of the iceberg...

Well-- nobody's tracking XP. And by the end of today, I'll have NO computers running anything newer than XP except an old laptop with Vista, and I'm only keeping that because of next year's TurboTax...

Life will be good. All my machines and office equipment will work, which means I can work.

And do so relatively privately. As I've said before, I refuse to give Bill Gates the keys to my house...

Bert Kemp
08-05-2016, 10:32 AM
Some where in the settings or your virus software I've seen a NO TRACK option



No, it will provide THEM with knowledge of everything you do online. And from what I've read and heard, tracking 'Edge' is just the tip of the iceberg...

Well-- nobody's tracking XP. And by the end of today, I'll have NO computers running anything newer than XP except an old laptop with Vista, and I'm only keeping that because of next year's TurboTax...

Life will be good. All my machines and office equipment will work, which means I can work.

And do so relatively privately. As I've said before, I refuse to give Bill Gates the keys to my house...

Lee DeRaud
08-05-2016, 10:39 AM
One vaguely interesting oddity: my only Win10 machine is a Surface Book. You'd think an actual Microsoft machine would be rather high in the queue for the Anniversary Edition, but no sign of it yet.

(It runs Pro, not sure if that makes a difference in this context.)

Mark Taylor2
08-05-2016, 12:34 PM
Curt,

There's a minimum number of seats required for the Enterprise version. Supposedly, all the telemetry can be turned off, but since it hasn't been fully released yet, no one really knows.


Bill,
Short answer.. no.

Sidenote:
Win10 ignores the Hosts files and blocking from there. You'll probably have to set up your firewall at the router side. There are those who say the incoming "personalized experience" (ads) can be blocked at the firewall also.

Bill George
08-05-2016, 7:24 PM
Curt,




Bill,
Short answer.. no.




So someday in the way distant future if I have to go to Win 10, the Pro 64 is spyware free, as spyware from MS? Perhaps by then I will be in the assisted living home and won't care.

David Somers
08-05-2016, 8:35 PM
There is one way you could deal with this sort of. Right now, you are likely using your MS ID as your login. And that is what ties all this "monitoring so we can improve your experience" stuff to you personally and to your machine.
The solution is to create a local only login on your machine. Move your programs and data into that profile. And then kill the original login. MS will still be spying and reporting, but now you it is being done on you as an anonymous user rather than as an identifiable MS user.
Or at least that is the solution I am finding so far.

I am curious about blocking this at your router's firewall. In theory that is out of MS control completely. Provided there is no handshaking between Win10 and MS that will cause problems when it cant complete this might be a good solution.

Will try to hunt a bit on this too.

On the one hand I understand where they are coming with this. I understand and even agree with their desire to upgrade machines automatically to try and cut down on virus infections. That was a bane of administrators in older versions where users could block an upgrade from occurring. And when your computer got infected it had an affect on far more machines than just yours. And I understand their desire to collect info on you. Though I think $$ is their driving force in this and that improving your experience is a relatively minor incentive for them. My real objection is forcing me to go along with this collection of data. That just burns my bacon. And I object to having a productive work session and suddenly being told my machine is rebooting to apply an update. And having literally experienced multiple reboots and repairs on each and every update I have gotten so far. As I said, I suspect a machine specific problem is magnifying my problem, but I am unimpressed so far.

Kev Williams
08-06-2016, 12:03 AM
But-- if you block MS at the firewall, won't that also prevent the never-ending updates?

David Somers
08-06-2016, 1:26 AM
Evening Kev!

That would depend on how closely you can identify the traffic to block. And if the traffic specific to their "improvement monitoring" is tied to other things happening. I have a feeling it would be more trouble than it is worth, and subject to MS changing how it appears going through the firewall. But that is a guess on my part.

Curt Harms
08-06-2016, 8:23 AM
Well,

Happy Anniversary Microsoft! The upgrade went smooth as silk!!! This laptop was made for Windows 10 and came with it installed originally so one would expect that it would accept a mere feature upgrade in the existing OS quite well. (my experience with lengthy multiple reboots and diagnosing problems on each and every other upgrade of Windows 10 to date being no indication of future problems of course.)

It started at about midnight last night, forcing me off the computer while I was working of course. Hung 3 times. By 6am it had actually started prepping for the install for real. 8 reboots later, during which it let me know that it was continuing to prep the machine for the installation and warning me this might take some time, it was ready to begin the install at 10am. By noon it had finished with only 3 reboots and that helpful message about some time being needed for completion.

After it came up it had....
Killed my external monitor and HDMI port.
Killed all my USB 2 and 3 ports, which included my mouse, keyboard, and backupdrive.
Killed my internal wifi NIC. And of course on a modern laptop there is no need for an RJ-45 connection.
Started telling me my original power supply was not OEM and was underpowered so it was reducing the processor speeds in compensation.
Recognized 4 of my 16GB of RAM.
Disabled my AV and Firewall and anti malware software requiring that they all be re-registered and re-activated.
Killed Aspire. It appears it will need a reinstallation.
Corel 7 no longer holds its SN so I have to work with them to get it active again, or reinstall.
And that is as far as I have tried to look so far. Am working slowly to get everything back up. A bit awkward since I have no connectivity and am walking upstairs and downstairs to my wife's Imac in order to get drivers and software from the web.
Oooooh! I just got it to see my wifi!! Saints be praised! There goes my exercise program for the day however.

I am glad this was an anniversary edition feature update and not something serious. I might have encountered problems then.

When done I am gonna see if I can run my laser off a 1974 TI Programmable Calculator. If I can it will be a pleasant walk down to the Fauntleroy Ferry Terminal where I can enjoy the ferry ride over to Vashon Island, dropping my Windows Laptop into the deepest part of the Sound on the way, and then enjoying a quadruple Margarita at the far dock before coming back home.

Otherwise I will continue trouble shooting this PoS Operating System. (lest you be offended. PoS stands for "Piece of Superbness" Operating System.)

And people wonder why I dont miss working in IT on Windows systems anymore?

Hope the update went better for everyone else. BTW. Be sure to check out the way this update is changing how Cortana works with your system and the privacy implications. Be sure you are OK with it, not that you have a choice if you keep your windows 10 machine on the web. I wont go into details since this is largely a matter of preference, and I am running high on unexploded invective right now. <grin>

Cheers All!


If you were able to charge an hourly rate to rectify all those 'issues', I fail to see the problem;). If it's your own machine.:mad:

David Somers
08-06-2016, 1:44 PM
Curt!

Ooooooh! I could charge myself!!!!! And put it in the bank to help pay for the recycling fee on that laptop and Win10 machine someday....soon (evil grin....bwahaha)

Dave (smile)

Curt Harms
08-07-2016, 10:45 AM
Curt,

There's a minimum number of seats required for the Enterprise version. Supposedly, all the telemetry can be turned off, but since it hasn't been fully released yet, no one really knows.

<snip>


Right, but if someone really needed to be able to control tracking and privacy - perhaps contractual terms require it - what are their choices? Someone bound by something like HIPAA? Pay for the minimum number of licenses for Enterprise, even though they only need two or three? It's for business purposes, not consumer purposes so it probably ain't gonna be cheap. If you're bound to Windows, you're gonna pay one way or another, the question is $$$ or privacy.

Kev Williams
08-08-2016, 10:46 AM
Pretty bad when you have to ask permission from MS to keep their nose out of your business..

It's worse when they can just tell you they wont. And can get away with it.

Bill George
08-08-2016, 4:22 PM
I see a golden opportunity for Apple to get serous about making their OS a real business orientated software. Sure they have desktop publishing and graphics, but something that really works like Word and Excel, and machine interface applications. If they cared they would get Corel Draw to work on the Mac. Yes, yes I own a MacBook Pro and there are some wonderful programs that are Almost as good as Word and etc. My 3D printer works fine on my Mac but I have never tried Corel Draw in Oracle VirtualBox to run my ULS laser.

David Somers
08-08-2016, 5:24 PM
Afternoon Bill!

For what it is worth, I had run both Corel (6 and 7) and RDWorks on my Mac using VMWare. My Macbook Pro was getting old and eventually VMWare was really pushing the machine, even after taking some time to give the windows virtual machine take as high a percentage of machine resources as I could. So I moved my virtual machine over to Bootcamp so Windows and Corel and RDWorks had full access to all the machine resources. Not as convenient but certainly made things run much much faster. Finally my logic board died and the cost to replace it exceeded the new cost of a pretty hot laptop running Windows so I took that route. (buying a new Mac was wayyyyyyyyy more expensive than a windows laptop) And that is what I am running now. But, I had no issues running the laser, Corel, Aspire, and the other key programs under a virtual machine running windows.

Dave Stevens-Vegas
08-09-2016, 1:36 AM
I see a golden opportunity for Apple to get serous about making their OS a real business orientated software. Sure they have desktop publishing and graphics, but something that really works like Word and Excel, and machine interface applications. If they cared they would get Corel Draw to work on the Mac. Yes, yes I own a MacBook Pro and there are some wonderful programs that are Almost as good as Word and etc. My 3D printer works fine on my Mac but I have never tried Corel Draw in Oracle VirtualBox to run my ULS laser.

MS Office has been available on the Mac for years. I use both the Win and Mac versions. In fact Excel started life as a Mac only app way back in the day. Using Parallels Corel X8, Autocad and even Inventor run well on a mid level Macbook Pro. The only thing I haven't been able to do is get Retina Engrave to talk to the machine under emulation. It runs but won't connect. It works under Bootcamp though.

As for "real business" oriented software, Macs (and to a lesser extent Linux) are used widely in tech and startup circles, software and mobile development, Internet development, hardware startups, EDA, embedded control, biotech and others. In the end it's a tool like any other tool you try to use the best one for the job. Seeing the Mac as primarily an art/design only tool or Windows as a business operations only tool is a dated stereotype and doesn't represent what's happening out in the world. That said, I don't see the value of adding a standalone Mac for something like machine control. It's too expensive which is why I build bare bones Win machines for those tasks.

Bill George
08-09-2016, 8:02 AM
I got my MacBook Pro 15" as a return off lease and with a new OEM battery installed by a authorized Apple service center so I don't have the usually 3x the cost of a Windows laptop. I wish it had more than just a couple USB ports but other than that its great.

Ross Moshinsky
08-09-2016, 8:57 AM
I'll be honest, I find Apple's pricing structure and need to be "different" thus creating unnecessary proprietary files and software (yes, I'm talking about things like iTunes) to be far more offensive than MS's decision to essentially adopt Google's business plan. I'm simply baffled by people being concerned about MS tracking your data when Google does this all the time. They use that data to sell ad space, the same as MS is doing. For your data, Google gives you free email and some cloud space. MS gives you a free OS. It's essentially the same business model.

David Somers
08-09-2016, 4:07 PM
Morning Ross!

The thing that irks me isnt really their tracking. It is not having the ability to opt out of it. And I did not get a free OS from MS. The license was purchased with the machine and was included in the cost of the machine. And if you didnt take MS up on their upgrade year you now have to pay for the OS. Which is fine. That is a BIG, critical piece of software. My objection is not being able to opt out of the tracking. Among many other objections I have built with MS after 25 years of administering and providing support to their OS and networks. I am afraid my tolerance for them is at a low. But I am not yet willing to sink the time and effort into working on ways around it, whether it be switching to Linux and attempting workarounds through it, or taking the time to track their outbound traffic to identify the tracking information so I can block it, etc. There is a fair amount of time and effort required to do that. So for now I put up with it.

So far as Apple goes, there are things I dislike about their approach to life as well. But my experiences with them have been solid. The number of problems I encounter with their hardware and OS has been absolutely minimal compared to the fussing I have to do with Windows. It is unfortunate that in choosing to use a Chinese laser and CNC that my software is all windows based and so even if I pay the extra $$ for a Mac I have to run Windows on it. And as you said, Apple does its fair share of tracking as well. At least I don't grit my teeth each time I turn on a Mac compared to my feelings about firing up a Windows machine each day.

And I am close to bailing on Google as well. I have alternate emails I can make use of. Again, time and effort is the key, and the fact that many systems I am tied to utilize Google and Gmail as their base so untangling even from that is going to be time consuming and possibly not worth it.

Sorry...feeling pissy today! <grin>

Mike Null
08-09-2016, 6:06 PM
I have a Macbook Retina for personal use and it is a great piece of hardware but honestly, I wish I hadn't bought it. Ross and others are right about Apple's quirks. I didn't upgrade any of my machines to Win 10 and plan instead to use Bill George's idea of a solid state hard drive for my primary Win 7 Pro. If it works well I'll also put one on my old XP Pro that I have to keep to run another piece of equipment.

I also deleted Google Chrome.

Gerry Grzadzinski
08-09-2016, 7:45 PM
The thing that irks me isnt really their tracking. It is not having the ability to opt out of it.

You can stop the tracking. You just can't stop the automatic updates.

Curt Harms
08-10-2016, 7:56 AM
You can stop the tracking. You just can't stop the automatic updates.

Not easily. I can envision someone offering some sort of script to make the required changes to the registry and policies to modify automatic updates. Of course then Microsoft will declare that a security risk and undo those changes with their next 'security update'. Round and round it goes. I miss having to deal with that crap like I miss having a 'social disease'.

Gerry Grzadzinski
08-10-2016, 11:56 AM
Not easily. I can envision someone offering some sort of script to make the required changes to the registry and policies to modify automatic updates.

Something like this?
https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

David Somers
08-10-2016, 9:26 PM
Hi Gerry,

I havent had a chance to look yet. Been pretty busy. But I had gone into Cortana and really locked it down BEFORE the anniversary update occurred. I noticed earlier today that the update undid ALL of my settings for Cortana, which literally turned off every feature I could turn off at the time. The update undid all of that. At the time it was perhaps 12 to 15 settings? Been a while so I dont have an exact count. Now I will need to go back in and relock those settings after I switch from my current login using an MS account to a local login. Once all that is done that should reduce me to anonymous tracking only, not tracking that is tied to my user account. But....the tracking on EVERYTHING is still supposed to be turned on based on my machine ID with MS. In theory that is "anonymous." In reality it is relatively easy to cross from that machine ID to my user info if you have the correct access levels. Do I envision anyone targeting me like that? No. Does it still bother me? You bet. Not to mention the effort it will take me to shift everything to a new user profile that is based on a local user only. Plus shutting off everything in Cortana that I want off. Which is everything in my case. Needless to say I am..........annoyed.

I will check out the link you gave above. Thanks for sharing that. Curious to see what they are doing. And needless to say, I will check it out in a virtual machine, not in my native OS. (no offense....I do that with anything like this I check out.)

John Noell
08-10-2016, 11:38 PM
FWIW, there is a registry change that can turn off at least some of the unfortunately resuscitated Cortana. The directions are here (http://www.howtogeek.com/265027/how-to-disable-cortana-in-windows-10/).

David Somers
08-11-2016, 2:12 PM
Thanks John! Had found the same setting options through another source. Appreciate the link!

Hope all is going great down in Fiji!!!!!

Dave

John Noell
08-11-2016, 8:43 PM
Hope all is going great down in Fiji!!!!!
Dave

Our rugby team just won the first Olympic medal ever won by Fiji - and it's the GOLD!

David Somers
08-11-2016, 9:09 PM
WOW!!! That is big!!! Quite Big!!! Congrats to the Fiji Team! And of course, to all the laser engravers living in Fiji who have cheered them on!!! <grin>
Seriously.....the islands must be going nuts! That is terrific! Congrats!!!

Tony Lenkic
08-12-2016, 11:02 AM
John,

I watched the game as well. Congrats to Fiji team on winning gold. Don't understand much about the rugby rules in first place.
There are some other small countries with first gold medals at Rio games.