Jointing wide edges

[Trevor Goodwin]

I've started on a workbench and I've decided to use ~3" thick pine boards for the top. The boards have been thicknessed but I don't have access to a jointer so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to joint the edges. I've got an ECE wooden jointing plane and a #5 with a cambered blade but I feel like I'm going in circles trying to get things square and flat. I'm aware that match planing will eliminate the squareness variable but I still need to get a relatively wide surface flattened and untwisted. What tips have you fellas got for getting jointing wide edges without a machine?

I'm not going to use clamps for gluing the top together because I realized I'd need to spend hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use very again. Instead I've bought a box of these massive 8" screws and two auger bits. I plan to glue and screw the boards together one at a time. With a ratchet or rattle gun I should be able to get enough clamping force. After that I will flatten the top one way or another. Any reason why I shouldn't use the screws (other than the fact that it's untraditional)?

[Phil Mueller]

Trevor, just so we understand, the 3" will be the thickness of the bench top...what is the width of these boards? In other words are they 3x2...3x4...3x12 slabs?

[Trevor Goodwin]

They are ~6 inches wide. Just some boards my dad milled years ago, not to any exact size. They are 5ft long - only a small bench but I want it heavy.

[Glen Canaday]

If you use holdfasts you may need to be careful of your hole placement so that you don't drill a dog hole through where you drilled for the screws. It might mess with how well the holdfast grips. I have not done this since I made a bunch of long wedge clamps, but that is where my mind went first.

I've seen this method used before though. One thing you can do is build up the top long and plane in a slight convexity to the faces of the boards being glued. That way the screws only need to be used on the ends because the convex faces will apply force in the middle (look up "spring joint"), and you can cut the extra length off once you're done so there will be no through holes remaining.

I would suggest gluing in stages (only a couple of boards at a time) for a couple of reasons:

1. It will be a great deal easier to make sure the boards are centered up and won't slide all cock-eyed when you apply pressure. Before it sets up, wood glue is slippery stuff. On my bench, this caused a whole lot of problem fixed only by a whole lot of planing and resulted in a thinner top than I had hoped for.

2. You can roughly flatten each board as it is cured in place. This will save tons of energy later on when it comes time to do the final flatten when the bench is fully assembled. It is a lot easier to spend 5 minutes every board or two to rough them in than it is to throw around a jack or #8 for a couple of hours in a single marathon session. See #1 for how I know...

[Trevor Goodwin]

Thanks Glen. If dog holes and holdfast points are the only concern then I can easily deal with that. Just plan ahead with the screw positioning and mark underneath where the screws are for future reference. I like the convexity suggestion, maybe I don't need the boards to be dead flat after all...

[Brian Holcombe]

Are you joining these edge to edge? If that is the case then one edge I would joint as an independent surface, checking squareness to the face only at one point. Use winding sticks to determine if you are creating an surface free of wind. Then joint the adjoining surface, checking it against that original surface.

[Phil Mueller]

i would probably clamp two adjoining pieces face to face and create a slight concave surface with stop cuts (credit to David Charlesworth). Essentially start the #5 an inch in from the end and plane to an inch short of the opposite end. Also start slightly in from each edge. Plane across the two boards until the plane stops cutting...you have essentially created a concave surface with slightly proud edges. (David's how to method download is worth every penny IMO)

When gluing together, screw the center first and work out to the ends. There's no reason you can't remove the screws once the glue dries. As Glen suggests, I'd do the first two, then one at a time, and enemies up the surface as you go.

[Steve Voigt]

A couple thoughts:

1) I would be wary about creating much of a "spring" joint as some have suggested. They are fine in certain situations, but it takes a lot of force to close a gap when you are dealing with 3" x 6" pieces, more force than you may be apply without clamps. I would do as Brian suggested: use winding sticks to ensure that your edge doesn't twist, and focus on getting a straight, gap free edge. Remember that it only has to look good on one side!

2) I don't really get the thing about "hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use again." If you are planning on making much furniture or cabinetry on your bench, you will need clamps. Depending on the width of your bench, four 24" or 30" should suffice, and you can get them for under $100 if you're not buying top shelf. If you are planning on a bench wider than 30", you should seriously reconsider. Really, 24" is plenty wide. My traveling bench, which is beefy enough to use permanently, is 19" x 70".

3) However, if you really don't want to buy clamps, there are two time-honored solutions. The first is to use threaded rod. Drill matching through-holes through all your pieces and pull everything together with nuts and fender washers. The second solution comes from the 18th century via Roubo. Here's a nice modern take on it from Derek Jones, the editor of F & C:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHO-zYmhYwS/?taken-by=lowfatroubo

and here's another shot, with thorough explanation:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BHSJjlDhPjv/?taken-by=lowfatroubo

Good luck with your build.

[Phil Mueller]

I agree with Steve on the spring joint if too severe. Planning with a stop cut and final through cut should only produce a gap of 1 to 1.5 thousands. And you do want to eliminate as much twist as possible.

However you choose to go, good luck with the build!

[Derek Cohen]

I've started on a workbench and I've decided to use ~3" thick pine boards for the top. The boards have been thicknessed but I don't have access to a jointer so I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to joint the edges. I've got an ECE wooden jointing plane and a #5 with a cambered blade but I feel like I'm going in circles trying to get things square and flat. I'm aware that match planing will eliminate the squareness variable but I still need to get a relatively wide surface flattened and untwisted. What tips have you fellas got for getting jointing wide edges without a machine?

I'm not going to use clamps for gluing the top together because I realized I'd need to spend hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use very again. Instead I've bought a box of these massive 8" screws and two auger bits. I plan to glue and screw the boards together one at a time. With a ratchet or rattle gun I should be able to get enough clamping force. After that I will flatten the top one way or another. Any reason why I shouldn't use the screws (other than the fact that it's untraditional)?

Hi Trevor

I would not use screws, even if you can remove them. They will leave deep and wide holes, and anyway are no assurance that the boards will be joined square. The suggestions that Steve has made are excellent. Either invest in a few clamps or make your own. You will need them in the future.

I also want to check something: it is not clear whether you will be joining the boards on their faces or edges. I suspect that we are assuming that you plan to join them on their edges (that is, a bench to that will end up 3" thick), but this may not be so.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Normand Leblanc]

My traveling bench, which is beefy enough to use permanently, is 19" x 70"

Hi Steve,
Would it be possible to get a picture of your traveling bench. I may need one very soon.

Thanks,
Normand

[Steve Voigt]

Hi Steve,
Would it be possible to get a picture of your traveling bench. I may need one very soon.

Thanks,
Normand


Sure, here you go.

340245

340246

Sorry about the gratuitous plane porn; these are the only pics I have. You can also see the bench in the video Pop Wood did. Some info, in case it's helpful:

- I designed the bench to be the biggest that could fit in my car. It's a split top, and the two top pieces (stacked on top of each other) fit in the front seat (with the seat all the way down). I lash them together with the center insert. The rest fits in the trunk.

- It's a pretty standard split top design. Unlike a more traditional Roubo, the leg assemblies have both top and bottom stretchers. Each leg has a tenon about 1 1/2" long, IIRC. The tops fit securely on the tenons, and then each top gets a lag bolt at each end, through those top stretchers. The tenons take the weight; the lag bolts just keep the tops on in case someone decides to sit on one end.

- I use the Benchcrafted hardware (about $40) to bolt the long stretchers to the two leg assemblies. The hardware is totally worth it. I can put the bench together or break it down in 5 minutes.

- It doesn't have much workholding at the moment because all I've needed is a stop for face planing. But I'll be adding more, and you can obviously customize it however you want.

I should mention that there are lots of other good designs out there. Caleb James has a great design for a knockdown Nicholson; you can find plans and a couple writups with Chris Schwarz. It works great for him, primarily being used for molding planes, spokeshaves, and the like, but because I'm doing a lot of heavy planing I wanted something more massive. So, design the bench around your vehicle and your working needs, is my advice.

(Sorry about the OT diversion everyone. :rolleyes:)

[Trevor Goodwin]

Thanks guys. All useful suggestions. The workbench I use at the moment is in the garage of a place I'm renting. It's bolted against a wall on three sides and has a massive well in the middle that only leaves ~8" of working surface at the front. I hate using this bench so much.

I should mention that I'll mainly be using my new bench for carving and small-scale joinery (boxes etc.) hence my reluctance to invest in long clamps. Joining five 4ft, 3" thick boards will require more than just a couple of clamps because there is a massive total surface area.

Regardless of how I decide to clamp, my first problem is planing the edges. Will I benefit from camber on the blade in my jointing plane?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Trevor

I'm going to suggest that you use a fence with your jointer to ensure square edges - assuming that the face are already jointed, as I recall you mentioning. Note that this will use a straight blade.

You can build this quite simply and quickly. Just remember to set the fence in and against the plane blade. The version below was made to control a very large and heavy cooper's jointer ...


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_632ddcb1.jpg


http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMadeTools/CoopersJointer_html_9acf06d.jpg


EDIT: (sound of smacking my own head) ... the edges are 3" wide! You could use my plane (3" wide blade!!) but your ECE will be a little over 2" only. Sorry for the lame suggestion.


Regards from Perth

Derek

[Trevor Goodwin]

Thanks Derek. I have considered making a fence for my woodie but it will be tricky. One problem is that it needs to be a sliding fence so I can cover the whole edge in multiple passes. The other problem is that the sides on my ECE plane have a slight taper, they are not perfectly square to the sole.

Mind you I have no qualms with drilling into my plane and inserting threads - anything that makes it more useful to me, it's not like it's a collectible. It is the ECE 101SB and I bought it because it was the cheapest good quality jointer plane I could find and didn't want to have to deal with a possibly banana shaped 2nd one Stanley/Record.

[Phil Mueller]

Given your "edge" is 3" wide, you are essentially face planning. Your plane iron is less than the full width of the "edge" so you'll need to approach it a bit differently than typical edge jointing. I'll assume the edges also aren't way out of square.

The cambered iron is ideal IMO, because you can run the center of the plane over the high areas and it will inherently taper off. Set the depth of the iron so that the outside edges don't cut at all. Then, for example, if the left side is high, center the plane on the left edge...that will remove more material down the left side and naturally taper the cut towards the center.

Per suggestions above, check for twist with winding sticks and work the high areas with the plane centered on the high spots. Say you find the right near and left far corners are high. Center the plane on the right near corner and run a cut stopping short of the end. Then center the plane on the left side about a foot beyond the left near corner and run a cut through the far high corner. Repeat checking with winding sticks.

Much easier her to do than explain...just another suggestion to consider.

[Trevor Goodwin]

Thanks Phil.

What about match planing? Could I plane two edges together, treating them as a single face, or will this be more trouble because of the size?

[Phil Mueller]

Counter to my first post, I don't think you'll have much luck match planing given it will be a 6" surface. It works best with a straight edge iron that is wide enough to go across both edges. You will likely need to treat these separately.

I know you wanted to do this without a machine, but you also mentioned the pieces were thickness planed. If you have access to a thickness planer, you could try match planing through it. Clamp the ends in the middle (keep the clamps from hitting the cutters) and run them through. Scribble a pencil mark all over the surface to let you know that the entire surface of both have been planned.

By the way - you probably know this - but when you line all these up, be sure you have all the grain running in the same direction. Makes it much easier to flatten the top after the glue up. I'd suggest running a plane down each one to confirm. I miss read a few of mine and it makes flattening the top without tear out challenging.

[Pat Barry]

I don't see a good way to do this except to use a slightly cambered iron and workk one edge at a time slowly and carefully as Brian suggested earlier. When you have two mating edges you can put them together and look for gaps and then tweak the highspots to bring both boards into alignment before gluing. By the time you get these edges finished you will have mastered the skill. An alternative of course is to find someone with the equipment (powered jointer) that will get the job done quickly so you can move on. This shouldn't be a costly thing to get done especially if one face on each board is already true. You will need a good fit of the boards before glue-up since you don't want to be trying to muscle out gaps with clamps. As far as clamps go, you can go to HD and get some (4) relatively cheap pipe clamps and a few 4ft sections of 3/4" black pipe and get the job done pretty easily, especially if the boards fit together nicely. I would certainly clamp only one joint at a time though.

[Robert Engel]

What Brian, Steve & Derek said + I would add

1. Patience
2. Check with winding sticks and straight edge every few strokes.
3. Be sure to mark places you want to plane.

I used a 6' level for a straight edge and winding sticks when I built the top for my bench.

When jointing the edges, I also found shining a light under the straight edge quite handy to detect low spots.

I would add that once you get everything flat and planar, let the beams rest a day or two and recheck everything before the glue up.
If something has changed, I would repeat the process 1 or 2 more times. Really importing to have very stable wood with material this massive.
I've seen stresses in the wood make a twist or bow re-appear overnight.

Good luck!

[Mark Gibney]

I don't know your location, but here in Los Angeles (and I'm sure close to most urban areas in the US) I can find pipe clamps fairly cheaply on craigslist. You can resell them later.

Pipe clamps are strong. You'll have much more control bringing boards together with clamps than with screws or bolts.

[Trevor Goodwin]

I'm in Tasmania.

The timber is well seasoned and has been sitting in my garage for 6 months so it should be stable.

Looks like I'll be buying a straight edge and making some winding sticks this weekend...

[Jim Huelskoetter]

I made my bench from 2 maple planks that were just shy of 16/4. I clamped them together as if match planing and planed as if facing a board. It was my first project hand planing so didn't take any great skill. I used a #7 with no camber on blade and needed a few attempts but came out pretty well.

[Glen Canaday]

Yes, the camber suggestions above are pretty much the way I'd go. None of my jointers (why I have so many I don't really know) have a straight grind on the iron.

I'd glossed over the detail that they were 3" thick when I suggested spring joints. That would take king kong clamps to close up; careful jointing is probably the best bet.

The suggestion to watch the grain runout on the surface that should eventually be on top is also sage advice. I didn't do this so while the top of mine is nice enough, it is not exactly furniture grade.

[Jim Koepke]

Someone once suggested a bit of sand scattered in the glue at glue up helps to control slipping at the joint.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I'm not going to use clamps for gluing the top together because I realized I'd need to spend hundreds of dollars on long clamps that I won't use very again.

Where do you live Trevor Goodwin? If it is close to Columbus, Ohio, you can probably borrow some of my pipe clamps. Not saying that you should not use the screws, just that if you are close you can borrow some clamps.

[Jim Koepke]

A great thing about pipe clamps is they can be reconfigured to any length one can cut pipe. I even bought a second hand 3/4" NPT die to thread pieces of scrap pipe.

jtk