Upgrading ailing Grizzly G0454 to Shelix or buy new Powermatic 15HH with Shelix?

[dale rex]

My 10 year old Grizzly 20" G0454 is hurting lately. Something happened in the cutterhead/pulley connection that has everything twisted and mangled. The key slot in the cutterhead and pulley is mangled and beyond repair. It means buying and installing a new cutterhead, pulley, key and retaining bolt/washer. I don't want to get another 4 knife cutterhead for it, I would rather upgrade to the Byrd Shelix if I do the repair. With all the other associated parts and new bearings, it would cost well over $1,000.00 (even though Grizzly has the Byrd heads for 875.00 now. I also was at Woodcraft recently and saw that they have Powermatic tools on sale in July for 10% off which got me thinking...........is it worth it to invest $1,000 into a 10 year old Grizzly or bite the bullet and get the better Powermatic with the Byrd head already installed? I know the Grizzly I currently have is 20" wide and the Powermatic is 15", and I am willing to downgrade the size for the better quality of the Powermatic with the Byrd head. When I bought the 20" Grizzly 10 years ago I thought I would need the 20" width and found that over the 10 years of use I never did need it at all, so the 15" Powermatic would be sufficient for me. Thoughts?

[Carpenter Mark]

With the damage you describe, there's probably more. Time to replace it and not have to worry.

[Martin Wasner]

Save yourself some money and get the grizzly version. Green paint apparently costs way less than yellow, since they're exactly the same machine.

[Darcy Warner]

I would want something that lasts longer than 10 years.

[Neil Gaskin]

We have a Powermatic 15" with Byrd head. I've been very happy with it over the last year it has been in use. I thought about purchasing the 20" when we were buying it last year and a few times I have wished I did but none were really necessary. But everyone's work and situations are different. If you have not needed the 20" capacity in the last 10 years and your not changing work habits or project types then I can strongly recommend the Powermatic. I would like to add a DRO to ours but haven't yet. I wish it came standard with one is my only complaint.

[Jim Andrew]

I have the GO453px with the Grizzly head, cuts just as well as the Byrd, and you don't have to change the cutterhead. Why pay more for gold paint, when you can get the same machine from Grizzly for less.

[Mike Cutler]

Tough call!
There would normally be a significant cost difference in the machines, but with 10% off, and avoiding the shipping fee's, it might only work out to about ~500-700 dollars difference at this point. Applicable state sales tax could factor in also.
Go with your gut and don't second guess yourself. ;)

[Robin Frierson]

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but aren't the PM made over in Asia just like Grizzly, maybe in the same factory. I have had two 15in planers, one Grizzly and one Bridgewood and they havent changed the design much over the years. I would go with the Grizzly and save the money. Though Grizzly doesn't offer the planer with the Byrd but with their own spiral design which works fine for me.

[David Kumm]

I don't think it is as simple as that. Factories sometimes use the same design but make an A, B, C version with different QC specs. I don't know the specifics here but there are grading systems for castings, bearings, motors, steel, etc. Some companies do hold the supplier to a higher level of quality. That would be my homework. Dave

[dale rex]

anyone in the PA area want to buy a used Grizzly G0454 in need of repair?;)

[glenn bradley]

Save yourself some money and get the grizzly version. Green paint apparently costs way less than yellow, since they're exactly the same machine.

Now you're going to go and get the Mustard Militia riled up. They can be as rabid as the Festoolians if you poke them while their sleeping ;-) Seriously though, there are many G0453Z owners out there that are very happy with their machines and spent that extra $1200 on a full set of replacement inserts ($295 from oella (http://www.oellasawandtool.com/products/Complete-Replacement-Grizzly-Carbide-Inserts-for-model-G0453Z.html)) and a good array of quality hand planes.

[Martin Wasner]

Now you're going to go and get the Mustard Militia riled up. They can be as rabid as the Festoolians if you poke them while their sleeping ;-)

Let me know when I need to start handing out helmets.

[Robert E Thompson]

I did some research before buying my current planer. I was concerned about buying a Grizzly because of the price difference. I thought there had to be a difference in the machines even though they looked the same and the parts are interchangeable. I contacted several of the more expensive colors and two of them responded. Both of the companies admitted the planers came out of the same factory.


One response was that there was enough variance in the manufacturing process that some machines were better than others. The machines were then sorted into groups and the best machines got the most expensive paint with the lessor machines getting cheaper paint. So basically they were saying there machines were the good ones and everyone else sold seconds.


The second response said they had there own engineers on site and they were selecting the best machines as they came off the assembly line to get there paint. So by buying there color I was getting the pick of the litter.


Neither company said there machines came out of a different factory or had different parts. Just look at the Byrd site and see how many different brands use the same heads and bearings.


I ended up buying a Shop Fox at the Grizzly tent sale. It had some pant problems so I got a good price and it works fine. I recently ordered a Byrd head for it and I getting ready to upgrade it.


As far as your old planer is concerned If the castings are not damaged and the machine performed well for you, I would do the Byrd upgrade. why buy a smaller version of the same thing.


If you do buy the PM please let us know if you find any difference in the way the machine works. I am sure the Byrd head word make a difference but what about the rest of the machine?

[Bruce Wrenn]

Most machine shops could build up the shaft, turn it to size and cut new key way. Do a little searching for someone who has converted their machine to Shelix. They have a old boat anchor for sale which will fit your machine. Lot cheaper than a new head.

[Alan Bienlein]

My 10 year old Grizzly 20" G0454 is hurting lately. Something happened in the cutterhead/pulley connection that has everything twisted and mangled. The key slot in the cutterhead and pulley is mangled and beyond repair. It means buying and installing a new cutterhead, pulley, key and retaining bolt/washer. I don't want to get another 4 knife cutterhead for it, I would rather upgrade to the Byrd Shelix if I do the repair. With all the other associated parts and new bearings, it would cost well over $1,000.00 (even though Grizzly has the Byrd heads for 875.00 now. I also was at Woodcraft recently and saw that they have Powermatic tools on sale in July for 10% off which got me thinking...........is it worth it to invest $1,000 into a 10 year old Grizzly or bite the bullet and get the better Powermatic with the Byrd head already installed? I know the Grizzly I currently have is 20" wide and the Powermatic is 15", and I am willing to downgrade the size for the better quality of the Powermatic with the Byrd head. When I bought the 20" Grizzly 10 years ago I thought I would need the 20" width and found that over the 10 years of use I never did need it at all, so the 15" Powermatic would be sufficient for me. Thoughts?

Honestly without pictures it sounds like the pulley was loose for some time and just chewed the shaft up. If that were the case I would just replace the cutter head and the pulley.

[Patrick Kane]

I'm in Pittsburgh with a brand new 4 knife powermatic cutterhead if you are interested. Has the bearings and four new knives. It happened to be cheaper to buy the straight knife version of the pm209 and swap out the cutterhead to a Byrd.

[Curt Harms]

Honestly without pictures it sounds like the pulley was loose for some time and just chewed the shaft up. If that were the case I would just replace the cutter head and the pulley.

That's kind of what I was thinking. But gut feeling enters into it too. If Dale would really like a Powermatic then the repaired Griz just isn't going to satisfy. How sound is the machine otherwise?

[Bob Grier]

here is unused powermatic 15HH. http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/tld/5671692361.html

[dale rex]

Sold the Grizzly on Craigslist for $600. Bought the Powermatic 15HH and have it up and running. Powermatic definitely is much better quality than Grizzly In my opinion. So quiet when first turned on, it purrs like a kitten. Noise levels while planing are much lower also. Overall I am very pleased with my decision to sell the Grizz and upgrade to the better machine. Not bashing Grizzly, I have a Grizzly shaper, dust collector, and 8 inch jointer and all have performed well over the years I have them. Might get a Wixey DRO soon for it too.

[Patrick Curry]

I'd love to do a side by side comparisons of a Grizzly and Powermatic (same size and cutter heads). I'm from the camp that suspected the difference is paint color & marketing but I have no reason to doubt you made the right choice and will be satisfied.

[Chris Padilla]

Have a gander at this:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?245633&p=2585317

You might have some long delays obtaining that head.

[Biff Phillips]

I don't think it is as simple as that. Factories sometimes use the same design but make an A, B, C version with different QC specs. I don't know the specifics here but there are grading systems for castings, bearings, motors, steel, etc. Some companies do hold the supplier to a higher level of quality. That would be my homework. Dave

There are differences on at least some machines. (I don't the percentage) . I spoke with a Jet rep about it once, he ran me through an example of a comparison. I don't remember all the details, so I will not post here.
But when I was planer shopping, I noticed the Grizz had smaller infeed/outfeed tables than a different brand, even though they appeared to be identical.
If they are changing the table size, logically they could be changing internal stuff the customer does not see .

Now, I am not starting an argument about whether it is worth the extra money or one brand is better than the other, but you are right, they clearly are not the same machine just painted a different color.

[Jerome Stanek]

When I was installing Satellite dishes that had LNA's the companies that made them would make all the same and then test them a unit that wasn't up to the highest degree would then be labeled with what ever it came up to. I think that may be how some Chinese companies do it.

[Chris Padilla]

When I was installing Satellite dishes that had LNA's the companies that made them would make all the same and then test them a unit that wasn't up to the highest degree would then be labeled with what ever it came up to. I think that may be how some Chinese companies do it.

Silicon (chip makers) vendors do something similar. Let's say Intel designs a CPU to run at 10 GHz. Now for the most part, a good percentage of the chips that they build will run at that speed but there will be some that run faster and some that run slower. It is just the nature of the business. Slower parts they may sell cheaper and be labeled as 9 GHz parts and the faster part may sell for more and be labeled as 11 GHz chips.

It is all in the quality control and testing and sorting and the number of steps each item goes through before being sold to the customer.

[Rick Alexander]

Boy I wish I had seen this thread sooner. I've got my old head for my G0454 I ended up with when I changed over to Shelix on mine. A shame because the old head was less than a year old (original knives and still sharp) and actually I have the quick change setup for straight knives for it as well. Bearings are perfect - three sets of knives (two quick change type and the original) and a perfect head for sale if anyone else has this problem. Cheap---- I just hate to see that thing sitting over there rusting. I always figured if I upgraded later I would sell the Shelix head separately but I'm happy with the 454 like it is - probably would never upgrade.