Spraying Kitchen Cabinets

[Peter Tucker]

Hey there - first post here, thanks in advance for your reservoir of knowledge.

I'm making my own kitchen cabinets (just avid hobbyist and woodworker, not a pro), and am setting up a spray gun/compressor for the job and for future woodworking finishing projects. I think I have a spray gun chosen (LVLP Qualspray AM5008 from Jeff at Homestead Finishing Products) and looking for advice on a compressor that won't break the bank, as well as what paint and primer to choose for the kitchen cabinets. I've tried the 2 HP 6CFM compressor from Harbor Freight, but after two units arriving damaged in the mail, I'm going another route. Any advice on a compressor, and what primer and paint to use would be greatly appreciated. I'm just thinking a white paint - nothing fancy, but want it to hold up to the test of time. Cabinets will be probably maple or birch ply, frameless, with poplar rail/stile drawer fronts.

I know this is a recurring topic here, and I have done a search, but hoping there are some new compressor models and paints available since some of the older threads. Apologies for any redundancy.

Thanks!

Best, Peter

[Adam Herman]

I can not comment on the compressor as i rolled and tipped all of my 30 doors/fronts and the frames! ( wont do that again!)

I really like the paint i used though, and have used it on a coffee table and other places where it has held up beyond my expectations.

Sherwin Williams proclassic enamel. They have a deep base to tint to darker colors that i have used as well. It is not the easiest to work with and films over nearly instantly, but once you get the hang of it, levels and dries very nicely even after i bugger it up brushing it out. The coffee table has been kicking around with feet and all manner of cats and dogs on top of it for a couple years and still looks great.

[Lloyd McKinlay]

Consider using a pigmented waterborne lacquer instead of paint. They dry quickly and you don't have the blocking problems as with latex paint. I use ML Campbell products but there are several good one now on the market.

[Mike Schuch]

I prefer to spray my first coat of finish with the finish thinned quite a bit so it soaks into the wood and gets a good bite. Subsequent coats I spray with the finish not thinned nearly as much.

I use lacquer for low traffic applications but have always been leery of using it for a high traffic application like kitchen cabinets. Lacquer does dry MUCH quicker which makes it really nice to use. For high traffic areas I use a quality oil based product.

I would recommend looking on CraigsList for a belt drive compressor. Belt drives are usually much quieter and last a lot longer than direct drive compressors. I have a small rollair direct drive 2.5 gallon compressor that I use for my brad nailer in the house that I picked up off of Craigslist for like $25. It is perfect for nailers but I don't think it is up to spraying. I use my belt drive shop compressor for spraying.

I have the Harbor Freight HVLP sprayer that comes with its own turbine. It does a great job and usually gets excellent reviews for a HF tool. Since it has its own turbine no compressor is required. I have a $300 professional MAC spray gun sitting on my shelf never used. I have found woodworking doesn't require near the quality of spray equipment that something like painting a car does and I just can't bring myself to foul my pristine Mac sprayer. The nice part about cheap HF sprayers is you can throw them away when they get too old, ugly and plugged... but I have had an old HF compressor powered sprayer for 20 year now that just wont die when using a bit of care with cleaning. I don't think I paid more than $25 for it 20 years ago. I just used it last weekend to spray a couple sticks of trim with spar varnish, still works great for finishing wood.

I rarely paint wood, I almost always use a clear finish. When I have sprayed oil based paint on some garage shelves the paint required a lot of thinning and I had to use a larger nozzle on the sprayer.

[Robert Engel]

I would look for a compressor that is rated at least 25% over what it calls for.

In your case, that is 6CFM, so I would get a compressor rated at 9-10CFM.

A compressor like this will be very limited for air tool use.

[John TenEyck]

I have the HVLP version of the Qualspray gun you bought with the 3M PPS system and it sprays beautifully. I have a large 60 gal compressor driving mine, so CFM is not an issue. FWIW, I bought my compressor used on C-List for $300 about 6 years ago and it has run many trouble free hours since then.

As nice as SW's ProClassic is it's a bear to spray with an HVLP gun. I haven't tried spraying it yet with the Qualspray gun, and it might spray it OK if you get the 1.8 or 2.0 mm N/N set for it. But I have sprayed General Finishes Enduro White Poly with it and it sprays beautifully with no thinning through the 1.3 mm tip. It has a measured viscosity of about 100 seconds through a Ford #4 cup. For comparison, ProClassic has an equivalent viscosity of around 500 seconds. I had to add 18% water to it to spray it with a gravity feed HVLP gun, which is not a good thing to do. Haven't tried it yet with the Qualspray gun so I can't comment.

ML Campbell Aqualente pigmented products have very low viscosity (around 35 seconds) and should spray great. Whatever you choose, make sure it's KCMA rated. And practice on something before you start spraying your kitchen cabinets.

John

[Mike Goetzke]

Since you are looking for a compressor have you considered a HVLP turbine system? I have the 4-stage Fuji system with the 3M PPS and get great results. I too am a serious hobbyist that built a huge kitchen worth of cabinets. I used waterborne lacquer. I recently built a crib for our first grandchild and my daughter wanted it white so I used white pigmented lacquer - again came out great.

I suggest you build a rack to hold doors for drying. I made a knock down PVC rack that I couldn't have done without.

Mike

[David Kumm]

It may not be relevant if spraying water borne but I would be concerned about how to dry the air. If spraying in humid warm weather, small compressors that run fast and have a small tank will need something to dry the air. i run a big compressor with a refrigerated dryer so maybe others can advise as to what is needed. Dave

[john bateman]

Hey there - first post here, thanks in advance for your reservoir of knowledge.

. I think I have a spray gun chosen (LVLP Qualspray AM5008 from Jeff at Homestead Finishing Products) and looking for advice on a compressor that won't break the bank, as well as what paint and primer to choose for the kitchen cabinets.

Best, Peter

I have the Asturo brand version of that gun, with 3 needle/nozzle sets up to 1.8mm. I use it with the Dewalt/Emglo compressor with the 15gal tank that you often see at the big-box stores for around $350. Most often I use clear and pigmented water borne coatings from Target https://www.targetcoatings.com/
I would say that compressor is the minimum capacity you would want to use.
Most of the things I spray are about 2 cubic feet or smaller in size. The compressor cycles off and on periodically, and usually keeps up with the gun. But it's pretty noisy, so if you can find a larger, oil-lubed model in your price range, I would recommend you do so, especially if you think you will be spraying much larger cabinets.

[John TenEyck]

It may not be relevant if spraying water borne but I would be concerned about how to dry the air. If spraying in humid warm weather, small compressors that run fast and have a small tank will need something to dry the air. i run a big compressor with a refrigerated dryer so maybe others can advise as to what is needed. Dave

It's never been a problem for me, but I do have a pretty large compressor. I have nothing more than the oil/water filter separator/pressure regulator at the compressor, 50 ft of hose and then my gun. I add an in-line filter at the gun to catch anything that gets beyond the regulator at the compressor, but have never found anything in it, at least as far as I can tell looking in the inlet hole. I drain the tank every once in awhile, and the separator at the tank several times a day if I'm spraying a lot more than an hour.

Caution is warranted, however, and I would not run with less than I have, which is bare minimum. Going to a smaller compressor could very well lead to problems I don't have, as you suggested, and that would drive me to find a larger compressor before I spent money on a fancy drying system. That seems like putting lipstick on a pig to me.

John

[David Kumm]

The air sanders are what really need the dryer. I don't spray enough volume for the water to be an issue, but when sanding water will spit like crazy from the pad. Dave

[Jim Dwight]

I used to use a Wagner conversion gun on my small compresser but I get much better results with my Fuji mini mite, 3 stage. I like Resisthane sold by Hood finishing. It is water borne lacquer you can get clear or tinted white (or black). I used the white on shutters for our entire last house. I also used the primer from the same source. Both applied easily without thinning with the stock jets of my Fuji.

[Ole Anderson]

Just a thought: go with a small airless setup like the Graco X5 using SW Pro classic. Thinning is not an issue when going airless. Worked great for me painting primed 6 panel doors, lots of them. Also about 20 raised panel kitchen cabinet doors.

[Bradley Gray]

Another vote for a turbine HVLP system (I have a Graco) and Hood Finishing Products for hydrocote finishes

[Peter Tucker]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the input. The HVLP Turbine systems do look enticing - small and portable - but are a little more pricey than I'd like to spend (look like $1000+ for the Graco), but something like the Fuji Semi-PRO 2 at $400 might fit the bill? Anyone experience with it? I watched a video on it and it seemed very slow... The Fuji Mini-Mite 3 @ $625 is probably about the same as I would spend on a gun/compressor and also might work. One of the compressors suggested to me was the Makita MAC5200 3HP Big Bore, for 6.5CFM @ 90PSI.

I had assumed a compressor and gun with multiple tips would afford me the widest range of spray applications in the long run for the kitchen cabinets, in addition to wood finished down the road, but it is hard to nail down good info on the topic. Just bought a tablesaw, planer, and jointer so trying to save a little money on this setup. The hydrocote paint looks great - I like the idea of fast drying since I will only have a makeshift spray booth with plastic sheeting, etc. A drying/hanging rack will be key too I think - good advice. For white hydrocote - just use the primer first then maybe 2 coats of the satin white? And it doesn't look like I need to thin it - ready to spray? That is one less step for this newbie : ) I'm going to be building an outfeed/assembly table with essentially kitchen base cabinets underneath, same hardware and drawers, and will spray it - all to practice before I start in on the cabinets.

[Sam Murdoch]

I'm a big fan of the Fuji HVLP - bought mine from PhelpsRefinishing. A great resource and lots of advice - "hard to nail down good info on the topic." Most of all you need to know can be found on this web site. http://www.phelpsrefinishing.com/fuji.html I use mine with a gravity cup and the flexible whip hose.These are compact units that do the job nicely with no fuss. If you decide after all that spray finishing is not for you, I suspect you could resell quickly here in the Creek if you clean 'er up good.

As others have suggested - PRACTICE on scrap panels before heading into the real work.

Also have had good success with ML Campbell Aqualente. Sprays nicely, dries quickly, levels off beautifully and is durable - all great +s.

[John TenEyck]

If you use Aqualente you can use a turbine or the Qualspray gun, no problem. It's only when you want to spray higher viscosity products that you need a different set up and, for high viscosity products like SW Proclassic, an airless sprayer.

IMHO, you will have a far more flexible system if you buy a compressor and conversion gun. Turbines offer no advantage as far as I know beyond portability. With a compressor you can run air tools besides spraying. For the price of a quality turbine you can buy a quality HVLP gun and a large compressor. And you can save money by buying a used compressor. I bought a 60 gal, 10 CFM at 90 psi unit used for $325. That and the Qualspray gun, plus hoses, filters, and regulators, around $750 total.

With the Qualspray gun you can easily spray materials over 100 seconds through a Ford #4 cup. GF's Enduro White Poly is 100 seconds and sprays great in my Qualspray gun with a 1.3 mm N/N and 5 psi cup pressure. I suspect you could spray ProClassic, too, with a large enough N/N and some thinning.

John

[Peter Tucker]

Yes, still pondering between the two setups - Fuji MiniMite 3/4 vs. compressor/gun. Space is also a concern, as the larger compressor will take up precious floor space in my small shop, as well as has more parts to maintain, etc. I don't envision using air tools, at all. If I'm being honest with myself, something that is a little less complex is probably up my alley, and will allow me to spend more time on building. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the turbine like a MiniMite has less overspray and uses paint and finishes more efficiently? That seems also to be another selling point, for cleanliness and my wallet. I'm sure a high quality compressor/gun offers a wider range of spray finishes like you say, but I'm sure I could work within a turbine system's parameters without too much trouble. (Famous last words! : ) GF's Poly is too pricey for me - the Hydrocote is half the price and viscosity of 25-30 with no thinning. Again - one less step, which at least for me is attractive - add paint into gun and go.

[Andy Giddings]

Peter, overspray for any HVLP system (turbine or compressor) should be about the same. If you haven't already got the compressor and don't see a need for any other purpose, then John's comments are spot on. A turbine will spray thicker materials at the higher cost end of the spectrum but the turbines at the low end require you to thin the product significantly.

If you are only going to spray lower viscosity materials and don't need a compressor for anything else, a low end turbine will cope. Mini Mite 3 is medium cost and will allow you to spray thicker materials with less thinning required. The 4 is a step closer to being able to spray most products with no or low amounts of thinner.

[Peter Tucker]

Hmmm - that is interesting, since every comparison source I've found of turbine vs. compressor setup lists significantly less overspray on a turbine system as a selling point. Trying to parse internet information is a challenge : ) I am leaning in the direction of the Mini-Mite 4, the extra $150 over the 3 in the long run will even out and allow better flexibility, as you cite. I think simplicity and portability are winning in the end, as well as the added shop space I will save. I appreciate the guidance John and Andy, and everyone! Best, Peter

[glenn bradley]

Hmmm - that is interesting, since every comparison source I've found of turbine vs. compressor setup lists significantly less overspray on a turbine system as a selling point.

Double check. They may be referring to HVLP over traditional compressor driven guns.

[John TenEyck]

Peter's right, over spray is a function of gun design; a turbine has no inherent advantage in that regard over a conversion gun. You said you can't see using air tools, but do you think you might like a brad nailer? Yes, you can buy battery powered ones, but pneumatic ones are much cheaper and never run out of power.

Anyway, regardless of what you buy I highly recommend you get a pressurized cup system, like the 3M PPS system. It has several distinct advantages. It has a built in filter system, it sprays nearly every drop of paint you put in the cup, and you can spray at any angle including upside down. Cleanup is incredibly simple with it, too. Being able to spray at any angle allows me to get inside of things that I couldn't with my old gravity feed gun and that means I do more assembly before finishing than I could in the past.

My last bit of advise is to use whatever finish best meets the application and the equipment you buy/have. For a hobbiest, price shouldn't figure into the decision process. You'll spend hundreds of dollars on wood and dozens of hours to build something from it. Whether a gallon of finish costs $40 or $100 is incidental at that point.

John

[Peter Tucker]

Hi John, yes - I already have a small Dewalt compressor to run my guns and it works great, just don't see me using air tools since I am set on tools that would normally be air powers (sanders, wrench, etc.) The Fuji Mini-Mite guns are in fact all pressurized cups - next choice is just gravity fed, or bottom fed. So many choices!

I appreciate your perspective on the cost of finishes - but two coats of primer and two coats of paint on a large kitchen, trim, etc. really adds up if the price difference is $40-50 per gallon. It is not incidental to me : ) I don't know how far a gallon will take me, but I imagine several gallons of each will be needed. I plan to build some matching cabinetry in the living room as well, so more paint will be needed there.

[Andy Giddings]

Peter, turbine overspray is limited by the system itself (ie the turbine has a set flow rate/pressure). A compressor has to be set correctly by the user in terms of the pressure delivered to the gun. If both are set correctly there should be little to no variance in overspray as they are essentially operating under the same conditions. I would recommend Jewitt's book/DVD on Spray Finishing Made Simple if you want an expert view on the differences. It also is an excellent guide for those that have never sprayed before

[Len Rosenberg]

Just completed my first spray project, a cabinet with frame and panel doors, made with plywood and poplar. I used a Fuji Q5 HVLP that I got from Jeff at Homestead, and ML Campbell Agualente primer and pigmented lacquer top coat. Both are water borne. Learned what I needed to know by watching Jeff's instructional video. The Agualente sprayed easy peasy, and dried to a beautiful finish. Two coats primer, two coats top coat. I was expecting all sorts of problems since this was my first spray attempt, but after a little experimentation with settings it all went smoothly. The Q5 is pricey, but I wasn't using it at full power for this spray, so I'd think a 4 stage turbine would be fine for this type of finish. I decided to go for the Q5 to have the ability to spray thicker coatings if I wanted to, and also for the noise dampening features. It is way quieter than the compressors I've heard, had it near me and it was a bit loud but not bad, no ear protection needed. The exhaust fan was louder than the turbine. I had many of the same questions you do, and Jeff at Homestead answered all of them patiently and intelligently. Give him a call. Also, try out the 3m PPS system, it makes clean up much easier. Good luck!