Why Not Convert to Metric?

[Rich Riddle]

I have a Hammer slider with a metric system installed on the fence. It's actually a much easier way to cut things and even build. Why haven't we simply adopted the metric system in the USA? It would prove much easier to figure fractions for those folks who are fraction challenged.

[William Adams]

Problems I have w/ metric:

- not related to human scale / experience for me — I know what four inches is roughly, but ~10cm doesn’t register w/ me
- not easily divisible by thirds, sixths, 12ths, &c. — and if I want even divisions for smaller units, I’ll dig out a graphic design ruler w/ PostScript point/picas (72/inch) — wouldn’t be so bad if CAD programs made it easier to use fractional measurements in metric
- too expensive to replace my favourite brass bound rule: http://www.jimbodetools.com/Near-Mint-STANLEY-No-62-SPECIAL-Boxwood-and-Brass-Metric-and-English-Folding-Rule-p42665.html

That said, I use it for some projects, esp. those where I want to match dimensions, and or cut out w/ a CNC, and I use metric when jogging the machine or doing CAM.

[Von Bickley]

I'm too old and stubborn to switch...... Just set in my ways.

[Lee Schierer]

The conversion of the US to metric discussion has been going on for many years and will likely continue for many years. For engineers and scientists who work in both sets of units, conversions are pretty simple. For others, the metric system can be baffling and unfriendly because they are not used to it. I think metric things are gradually replacing the old U.S. standards as we get more and more goods from metric countries. Reasons why we haven't converted are many, some valid and others not so valid.

[William Adams]

Oh yeah, and it’s also a hoot when the metric purists have to get out a 6.35mm hex bit (1/4") or 12.7mm socket (1/2") or a 1.27mm Allen wrench or Torx bit (0.050").

[Greg R Bradley]

Yes, few of them have much validity at all. The real issue is why was there so much resistance when we started 30 years ago. Grasping at straws like saying it is difficult to divide by three show just how stubborn people can be. I mean really, I'm old but they must be pushing 200.

[Mel Fulks]

Rich, the brain trust here solves all your problems. But we are not gonna go foreign with measurin' stuff.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The medical field has worked in metric for over 40 years during which I worked there.

[Rich Riddle]

I just figure it's easier to calculate by 10 or 100, than 8, 16, 32 and 64. Perhaps I am being lazy.

[Bert Kemp]

its like most things people are afraid of change. I find that in measuring its pretty easy , mm,cm, m, km ect but thats because I make an effort to use it, but when it comes to liquid measurements, Im not making that effort and I don't know what things are. I guess its just a matter of what you relate to and how much of an effort your willing to put into it.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Well, if we're going to upset the apple cart we might as well go whole hog and go with base 12. That way we could divide by 2,3,4, & 6 evenly and decimals would be a breeze.

[Wayne Lomman]

Australia changed to metric in about 1972. For about 20 years imperial was outlawed. This meant you had to learn the system and so everyone changed. Plenty of complaints but such is life. Now it is legal to buy/sell measuring devices in imperial or metric, but no-one bothers with imperial. I learned both systems and I can tell you that errors with arithmetic dropped remarkably when fractions disappeared. We on this forum may have the brains to do the fractions easily, but think back to when you were at school and how many of your class mates hated fractions. As far as foreign systems go, think a bit and work out where the "imperial" system was invented... Cheers

[Chuck Wintle]

what will become of a 2 x 4? will these be known as 50mm x 100mm or perhaps a 5cm x 10cm. The construction industry will probably resist any conversion for good reason.

[Chuck Wintle]

what i found confusing was when the major car companies GM, Ford and Chrysler half-converted their cars to metric. It forced a mechanic to use both metric and standard to repair the cars. They should have just used one or the other IMHO.

[Chuck Wintle]

Australia changed to metric in about 1972. For about 20 years imperial was outlawed. This meant you had to learn the system and so everyone changed. Plenty of complaints but such is life. Now it is legal to buy/sell measuring devices in imperial or metric, but no-one bothers with imperial. I learned both systems and I can tell you that errors with arithmetic dropped remarkably when fractions disappeared. We on this forum may have the brains to do the fractions easily, but think back to when you were at school and how many of your class mates hated fractions. As far as foreign systems go, think a bit and work out where the "imperial" system was invented... Cheers
At least we no longer have to deal with British Standard Whitworth nuts and bolts!

[Brent Cutshall]

Before I really stepped into the craft I found that for smaller projects it was easier to use metric than standard but for larger humdingers it's easier to say 4 feet instead of 74 cm. I guess it's all about comfort zones, preferences, and familiarity.

[Wayne Lomman]

Chuck, our government only tells us what to measure with, not how to think. As a result, we officially have 100 x 50, 90 x 45 etc but we older guys ask to pass that piece of 4 x 2 half the time. The young tradesmen have no idea what we mean so the transition has happened, they just haven't killed off the old timers yet.

As far as cars go, Australia's Holden Commodore from 1988 to 2003 used a Buick 3.8 litre V6 engine. I always thought the mix of bolt sizes was due to Australian add on parts. It drove me mad when servicing the car. Loved the motor though. We owned 4 Commodores from this period and each one lasted in excess of 650,000km (400,000 miles) without failure (and yes, we did a LOT of driving having always lived in remote areas) Cheers

[William Adams]

As I noted, just add PostScript points and Picas to get base 12/72 into Imperial.

I’ve always thought it was unfortunate that when the Japanese created the Kyu (Q, 1/4th of a millimeter) they didn’t use one-third.

[Al Launier]

Back in the eighties I recall an effort to convert from imperial to metrics while working in manufacturing. With all the machining equipment made to the imperial measurement system, it was a nightmare trying to convert to metrics. Each metric unit had to be converted based on the 0.03937" relationship to a milimeter. Most of us could quickly translate fractions to an imperial equivalent because we had memorized the equivalency, but determing the decimal equivalence of metric dimens was another story; so inconvenient & time consuming. It was shortly given up. I still can't relate to the metric system. 0.001" means much more to me than 0.025 mm, or 0.0025 cm or 0.00025 dm or 2.5x10-5 m.

Just consider the billions of dollars and the long term effort to re-educate it would require to convert to metrics.

[Chuck Wintle]

Back in the eighties I recall an effort to convert from imperial to metrics while working in manufacturing. With all the machining equipment made to the imperial measurement system, it was a nightmare trying to convert to metrics. Each metric unit had to be converted based on the 0.03937" relationship to a milimeter. Most of us could quickly translate fractions to an imperial equivalent because we had memorized the equivalency, but determing the decimal equivalence of metric dimens was another story; so inconvenient & time consuming. It was shortly given up. I still can't relate to the metric system. 0.001" means much more to me than 0.025 mm, or 0.0025 cm or 0.00025 dm or 2.5x10-5 m.

Just consider the billions of dollars and the long term effort to re-educate it would require to convert to metrics.
Yes it is a huge expense to convert to metric units of measure. This is why the united states will continue with Imperial units for a long time.

[Curt Harms]

I think familiarity is 90% of the issue. As far as switching machine scales, I'll bet it's pretty easy to switch an electronic digital readout from imperial to metric;). Even older vehicles - early 2000s - seem mostly metric. When the U.S. was 'the workshop to the world' imperial measure was familiar because so many products were sized in imperial. The U.S. is no longer ' the workshop to the world' and the new title holder - China - is officially metric. The only metric measure I have trouble getting my head around is power/torque. Watts & Kilowatts are familiar Newtons are not.

[Ole Anderson]

I agree, metric makes a lot of sense, but familiarity with our current system keeps us stuck in non-metric. I am a civil engineer. Metric does not help us as we deal in decimals of feet. Not 100'-1/8" but 100.01'. And billions of legal records concerning surveying of land divisions are in feet, not meters. The MDOT tried mandating metric on their road and bridge projects about 20 years ago, it was a complete failure, and there was really no upside so it was abandoned.

[Wayne Lomman]

Curt is right - familiarity is the issue. Use a system and you get good at it. No system is inherently perfect, they just exist and we use them or not as circumstances require. A couple of years ago I was working for a company that did building as well as heavy CNC machining (some business model - go figure but it worked). The machinists were all fully conversant with both imperial and metric. Half the work was refurbishment of old equipment and so they had to work with both. It was no big deal to them. They could converse equally well in thou or millimetres. The machines accepted tooling for both systems. Cheers

[Pat Barry]

I have a Hammer slider with a metric system installed on the fence. It's actually a much easier way to cut things and even build. Why haven't we simply adopted the metric system in the USA? It would prove much easier to figure fractions for those folks who are fraction challenged.
LOL. too too funny! Good one Rich

[Wade Lippman]

Because we are America, and the whole world accommodates us! We don't change, they do. It is just a matter of time until everyone comes around.

I remember the time that my boss specified that Chinese wire hooks had to be 0.25" rather than the 6mm everyone else used. Our cost being 3x our competitors ensured we didn't sell any.

[Prashun Patel]

I don't mind 2 systems of linear measurement. All you need's a calculator. in fact, since my Hammer and Domino started me down the metric path, I find I am able to switch between them pretty easily. I like being ambidecimaltrist.

The bigger problem for me is in weight measurements. When you're talking quantity, is it weight, mass, volume? Liters? pounds? kg? ounces (liquid or solid?) That's where the math gets screwy and you need other variables like density to convert and the conversions are less intuitive. And this is coming from a guy who took his fair share of physics courses in college.

[Stew Hagerty]

When I was a teen in the 70's we had to learn all about the Metric system because the US "was in the process of switching everything over". Well that happened. Right?
I still see the occasional old speed limit sign that lists both MPH and KPH, but they have become very few & far between. I think that we have come to understand that our cars and a lot of other equipment use Metric nuts & bolts. And, as someone else mentioned, cars and many other things often, and very frustratingly, use a combination of Imperial & Metric. My Power Wheelchair, for example, uses mostly Allen head screws & adjusters. But they tend to be almost 50/50 when it comes to what size. But for other things, feet, inches, miles, cups, quarts, tablespoons, ounces, are too deeply ingrained for us to switch unless there was a concerted effort and to slowly evolve EVERYTHING (all or none) over the course of an entire generation or two.

[Jim Koepke]

it's easier to say 4 feet instead of 74 cm.

Besides you will have something that is about 18" longer.

One question once asked of me was what is the standard spacing of studs in a metric framed structure?

If an actual advantage can not be demonstrated to each person individually, then the change will likely be slow. As it is going now automobiles are somewhat blended. At one time this was a big influence on what the home mechanic had in his tool box. Now cars are not as simple to maintain for the shade tree mechanic.

I have worked with both systems. Maintaining bicycles and automobiles. It doesn't matter so much if it is inch or metric, it is still mostly lefty loosey righty tighty.

Since all but a few of my wood working tools are sized in inches I still work with inches. Often I do not use a ruler or tape measure. A story stick removes the errors of measurement that often happen due to my mild dyslexia. I am not sure switching to metric would eliminate such errors.

It may just be the hard headedness of many people. This makes me think back to when I was working in public transit. I had misplaced a socket and asked a couple of co-workers if they might have seen my 19mm socket. One responded by asking why on earth would someone have a metric socket in their tool kit. I explained that 19mm and 3/4" were equivalent sizes. He then asked why I didn't just ask if they might have seen my 3/4" socket. I tried explaining that it was labeled 19mm. Then he again asked why on earth would I have a metric socket in a shop that was all SAE.

That is why we will likely not change for a long time. Some folks are just too ignorant to 'get it.'

A mechanic friend once told me when he was setting up his shop, it was less expensive to set up with metric tools and purchase the SAE tools to fill the gaps than it was to purchase SAE sets and fill in the metric gaps.

jtk

[Rod Sheridan]

Rich, the brain trust here solves all your problems. But we are not gonna go foreign with measurin' stuff.


LOL..................That's why you have a British measuring system ;)

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Prashun, we don't use weight in the metric system at the level of the average person, we use mass, (Kg).

I buy 1 Kilogram of meat, not 9.8 Newtons of meat.

It has been so long since I used the imperial system I can't remember the unit of mass in it.

Liquids of course are litre, or milliliter depending upon the quantity.

As you're probably aware I went metric with furniture design and find it much easier than Imperial, the trick is not to convert.

I now make "standard" stuff 20mm thick instead of 3/4", 2" table legs have become 50mm etc. It takes some getting used to, however if you give me a container of water I don't know whether it's a litre, a US quart or an Imperial quart because we aren't able as humans to measure things accurately........Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes it is a huge expense to convert to metric units of measure. This is why the united states will continue with Imperial units for a long time.

Unfortunately, it will also reduce trade....

I can buy metric tooling often for less money than imperial, the last shaper cutter I purchased was $120 less in 30mm bore than 1 1/4".........Rod

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Using metric?

I met a coworker in a 3 week class in Milwaukee, WI. He was the lead engineer on the south island of New Zealand. Some years later my wife and I were gifted by a son and DIL with a 10 day trip to NZ. My friend/coworker gave us a very thorough driving tour of Christchurch (before all the earthquakes). As we drove by a gas station, my wife noted the price of gas on a sign and said "The price of gas is about the same as it is at home in Idaho.". My friend, Ken, asked "Are they selling it by the liter now?"

[Art Mann]

In the US, materials are bought in units of fractions of inches, inches and feet. Most equipment is marked in distances of fractions of inches and inches. Nearly all plans published in magazines or by furniture designers are in inches. I can mark 60 inches on a board to within a few inches without the use of any measuring device. I would have to convert from centimeters to inches or feet to be able to do the same thing using the metric system. I will change to the metric system when it becomes more convenient for me to do so, not when somebody on a woodworking forum thinks it is smart. This is coming from an engineer who spent his entire career using the metric system.

[Pat Barry]

It may just be the hard headedness of many people. This makes me think back to when I was working in public transit. I had misplaced a socket and asked a couple of co-workers if they might have seen my 19mm socket. One responded by asking why on earth would someone have a metric socket in their tool kit. I explained that 19mm and 3/4" were equivalent sizes. He then asked why I didn't just ask if they might have seen my 3/4" socket. I tried explaining that it was labeled 19mm. Then he again asked why on earth would I have a metric socket in a shop that was all SAE.

That is why we will likely not change for a long time. Some folks are just too ignorant to 'get it.'
Jim, don't be so hard on yourself. You will get it sooner or later.

Edit - I should be more clear - you will get that they were asking you a valid question and you never came up with a good answer for why you had metric tools in an SAE shop.

[Pat Barry]

Its not a well known point of knowledge, but one of the key issues that caused Britain to last week opt out of the EU was that the general population did not want to convert to metric currency! They are perfectly happy with their pounds, and pence and quid and what not and didn't want to be forced to convert to Euro's. Thats a fact.

[John K Jordan]

I have a Hammer slider with a metric system installed on the fence. It's actually a much easier way to cut things and even build. Why haven't we simply adopted the metric system in the USA? It would prove much easier to figure fractions for those folks who are fraction challenged.

Rich,

Since metric is everywhere from plywood thickness to lawnmowers, we would each be wise to use it or at least become more familiar with it. I think the problem is not logic but inertia.

I found that over the years the metric system has become as familiar to me as the imperial without even trying. I can estimate a millimeter or 20 cm, I can stride a meter when estimating ground distances, when giving meds to llamas it's nice that a cc is the same as a ml, and I'm finally starting to recognize various metric wrench and machine threads. I'm certain that we would be all benefit from using it. 4mm is a lot easier to read and measure than 5/32"; less chance of mistake measuring 10mm than 25/64".

JKJ

[Jerome Stanek]

When I was installing fixture in CVS Pharmacies we would get some OSF from Canada and had to adjust the wall fixture to fit. There were some crews that didn't know that 4 ft Canadian fixture is just a little bigger than American Lozier fixture and it wouldn't fit in the spot that they had left.

[Rod Sheridan]

That Ken, is funny.

When I was in England I found most things cost the same as in Canada, except they were in Pounds Sterling instead of Canadian dollars............Rod.

[Prashun Patel]

"we don't use weight in the metric system at the level of the average person, we use mass, (Kg)."

Precisely, Rod. Metric uses mass. Imperial uses lbs = weight = force. So, when I sell 400 lbs of liquid to my customers, but need to convert it to kg for the shipping label, and then gallons or liters to figure out how to efficiently package it, it's just a pain.

[Jim Koepke]

Its not a well known point of knowledge, but one of the key issues that caused Britain to last week opt out of the EU was that the general population did not want to convert to metric currency! They are perfectly happy with their pounds, and pence and quid and what not and didn't want to be forced to convert to Euro's. Thats a fact.


The British changed their currency on "Decimal Day" February 15, 1971. In effect they already have 'metric money.'

The farthing was demonetized on the January 1, 1961.

The British in general may not want to convert to the Euro. That is a different story and likely wouldn't happen before the year 2020 if they stayed in the EU.

jtk

[John Stankus]

It has been so long since I used the imperial system I can't remember the unit of mass in it.



The imperial unit of mass is the slug. :)

[John Stankus]

The imperial unit of mass is the slug. :)

The US Customary units diverged from the British units in 1824. The US customary units are based on the pre-1824 British units. The Imperial system, enacted in 1824 modified the previous British system (notably consolidating the multitude of gallons used to one based on the Ale Gallon). An imperial pint is about 1.2X a US pint.

John

[roger wiegand]

I converted in daily life years ago, the only significantly non-metric part of my life is my shop, and one day soon I will pitch all my old rules and tapes and convert there as well. The combination of the insistence on staying with bizarre fractions with the demonstrated inability of 85% of the population to manipulate those fractions defies any semblance of logic or sense. If I want to I can figure out how many quarts are in that 2 l bottle of soda, but why should I have to care? To Prashun's point above the ability to trivially convert between mass and volume (and weight if we're somewhere close to the surface of the earth) for liquids is really nice.

[Chuck Wintle]

Ale Gallon)

John

Yeah the Ale Gallon!

[Rod Sheridan]

The imperial unit of mass is the slug. :)

Thanks John, yes of course it's the slug.

Haven't used a slug in calculations since about 1980................Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Its not a well known point of knowledge, but one of the key issues that caused Britain to last week opt out of the EU was that the general population did not want to convert to metric currency! They are perfectly happy with their pounds, and pence and quid and what not and didn't want to be forced to convert to Euro's. Thats a fact.

Pat, the Pound no longer is 20 shillings or 240 pence, it's now 100 pence.......Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

"we don't use weight in the metric system at the level of the average person, we use mass, (Kg)."

Precisely, Rod. Metric uses mass. Imperial uses lbs = weight = force. So, when I sell 400 lbs of liquid to my customers, but need to convert it to kg for the shipping label, and then gallons or liters to figure out how to efficiently package it, it's just a pain.

Oh, I agree, and as you can see I couldn't remember what the unit of mass was in the Imperial system.

The conversions in the Imperial system are a pain........Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yeah the Ale Gallon!

Actually that could convert me back to Imperial:D

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a Hammer slider with a metric system installed on the fence. It's actually a much easier way to cut things and even build. Why haven't we simply adopted the metric system in the USA? It would prove much easier to figure fractions for those folks who are fraction challenged.


Rich, there you go again with your Don Quixote tilting at windmills approach to life..................Rod.

[Pat Barry]

Pat, the Pound no longer is 20 shillings or 240 pence, it's now 100 pence.......Rod.
Interesting! It's decimal but not metric then. Euro'S are metric money.

[Tom Stenzel]

The problem I have with metric is when the Canadien stations announce the temperatures in C, I don't know if I need shorts or a jacket.

-Tom

[Brian Elfert]

Its not a well known point of knowledge, but one of the key issues that caused Britain to last week opt out of the EU was that the general population did not want to convert to metric currency! They are perfectly happy with their pounds, and pence and quid and what not and didn't want to be forced to convert to Euro's. Thats a fact.

In all the media coverage about the British referendum I don't recall hearing that being forced to change currency was ever mentioned. I did hear having to take in migrants as a major issue among other things.

[Stewie Simpson]

Its not a well known point of knowledge, but one of the key issues that caused Britain to last week opt out of the EU was that the general population did not want to convert to metric currency! They are perfectly happy with their pounds, and pence and quid and what not and didn't want to be forced to convert to Euro's. Thats a fact.

Pat; that's not fact; that's fiction. You need to do your homework.

[Tony Zona]

Since the base of the metric system is as arbitrary as it is in imperial, compromise. Let there be ten inches in a foot, and maybe 100 divisions to the inch. Viola! No nasty fractions.

And it may keep all those anti-metric people happy, too, by staying with the words "inches" and "feet."

[Stewie Simpson]

Here's a real fact.

Of all the countries in the world, only three backwaters still use the archaic Imperial system of weights and measures: Liberia; Myanmar; and the USA.

[Rich Riddle]

Further confusing me is that the F150 in the driveway has both metric and SAE nuts and bolts and apparently no rhyme or reason as to where the place them.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I haven't seen an imperial fastener on an american vehicle in 20 years. All of my wrenches are metric, and they fit every bolt I've ever had to remove.


The combination of the insistence on staying with bizarre fractions with the demonstrated inability of 85% of the population to manipulate those fractions defies any semblance of logic or sense.

Those same 85% won't be able to understand metric decimal places either.

[Chris Parks]

So many reasons to not convert but all the countries that have converted all had the same reasons and still managed to stumble through the conversion. The biggest problem Australia had was when the currency changed and no one was sure how to count it or if they were getting paid too much or not enough. It really was a shock when I opened my first pay packet and found I did not have a clue how much should be in it.

[ron david]

Problems I have w/ metric:

- not related to human scale / experience for me — I know what four inches is roughly, but ~10cm doesn’t register w/ me
- not easily divisible by thirds, sixths, 12ths, &c. — and if I want even divisions for smaller units, I’ll dig out a graphic design ruler w/ PostScript point/picas (72/inch) — wouldn’t be so bad if CAD programs made it easier to use fractional measurements in metric
- too expensive to replace my favourite brass bound rule: http://www.jimbodetools.com/Near-Mint-STANLEY-No-62-SPECIAL-Boxwood-and-Brass-Metric-and-English-Folding-Rule-p42665.html

That said, I use it for some projects, esp. those where I want to match dimensions, and or cut out w/ a CNC, and I use metric when jogging the machine or doing CAM.
I bet that you can work quite easily with a dollor though even as it is not divisible ny thirds. sixths, 12ths etc.
ron

[Stewie Simpson]

Those same 85% won't be able to understand metric decimal places either.[/QUOTE]

Gerry; that's a bit of a sad indictment of our modern education system.

[Kev Williams]

30 years ago trying to get us to go metric was like hiring a Chinese guy to teach us to speak Spanish... How could we learn metrics with no metric measurement tools readily available? Computers were new and there was no google to figure it out. And who knew enough about metrics to teach us?

Then, and now, I could care less about metrics. I've been forced to use metric measurements because my Chinese built laser engraver's software has no 'inches' option. And after 2-1/2 years, about all I've learned is, 1mm is just shy of .040, 3mm is almost 1/8", 6mm is almost 1/4", 100mm is around 4"... So I have 1 to 4 inches "about" dialed in... but the other day on the boat board, there was talk of a damaged 157cm diameter propeller was being fixed-- so pop quiz, how big is 157cm? oh, right-- 1570mm, how dumb of me... ;) But seriously, I have absolutely NO idea how to picture IN MY MIND what 157cm is, no clue whatsoever. Google tells me it's 61.8", or 5' 1-3/4", which BOOM!! my brain can immediately relate to! That's how tall my mom was! Just a little shorter than I am! And that's pretty big for a boat prop!

--but 157cm means no more to me than la taille est que?
(which I also had to look up) ;)

I'm fine leaving well enough alone. Last thing I ever want to ask for is a 305 hot dog...

[Chris Parks]

30 years ago trying to get us to go metric was like hiring a Chinese guy to teach us to speak Spanish... How could we learn metrics with no metric measurement tools readily available? Computers were new and there was no google to figure it out. And who knew enough about metrics to teach us?

Then, and now, I could care less about metrics. I've been forced to use metric measurements because my Chinese built laser engraver's software has no 'inches' option. And after 2-1/2 years, about all I've learned is, 1mm is just shy of .040, 3mm is almost 1/8", 6mm is almost 1/4", 100mm is around 4"... So I have 1 to 4 inches "about" dialed in... but the other day on the boat board, there was talk of a damaged 157cm diameter propeller was being fixed-- so pop quiz, how big is 157cm? oh, right-- 1570mm, how dumb of me... ;) But seriously, I have absolutely NO idea how to picture IN MY MIND what 157cm is, no clue whatsoever. Google tells me it's 61.8", or 5' 1-3/4", which BOOM!! my brain can immediately relate to! That's how tall my mom was! Just a little shorter than I am! And that's pretty big for a boat prop!

--but 157cm means no more to me than la taille est que?
(which I also had to look up) ;)

I'm fine leaving well enough alone. Last thing I ever want to ask for is a 305 hot dog...


And millions before you have converted from imperial to metric and had thoughts exactly the same. I did it, Stewie and others have done it so what is different to anyone in the US doing it? It seems from a distance that the US thinks it is a protected species and the rest of the world is out of step which is clearly opposite to the reality.

[Tony Zona]

Why characterize us as a protected species? It's insulting.

Do you think all those former English colonies should convert to driving on the right side of the highway? Or should Americans not worry about it?

Should the USA word pronunciation be changed to sound more Australian? Or not?

Why shouldn't we all be speaking Esperanto, or what world-wide language would you suggest the USA be speaking?

Should we spell it colours, or should Australians spell it colors?

Do you think Australians should put down their knives and switch their fork to the other hand while eating, or should Americans not worry about that?

When Australians want to export to a country of 300 million people is it wise to not use Imperial?

Cricket? Really? Why not baseball?

Shouldn't we all be using Bitcoin rather than having to convert between all that funny money?

Why is there such concern over the USA's measurement system then?

I am quite fluent in the parts of imperial that I need. (Furlongs escape me.) And fractions really are a pain, but I use them quite well.

My use of metric is equally fluent, and the fraction calculations are easier.

I'll use whichever the majority wants, but it's difficult to understand why others would find it necessary to denigrate us for using Imperial. It's a holdover from England. We just didn't hold onto left-side driving.

[Chris Parks]

The rest of the world is metric apart from the US and two minor countries, you give it a name. To the rest of the world it is insulting that they should be expected to conform to one countries archaic methods. The rest of what you wrote is simply excuses to justify a position out of step with the rest of the world.

[William Adams]

Pretty much, the U.S. accepts imports, and even produces products which are metrically measured for export.

Holdouts include:

- paper — the presses I mostly work w/ at work are set up for rolls measured in inches, letter is 8.5 x 11, &c. — I have a nice old pair of wooden file cabinets which won’t accept unfolded A4 — FWIW, A4 wide, but letter tall is a nice proportion for paper.
- gas and highway distances and speeds — they tried switching to selling gas by the liter when it first went over a dollar a gallon, but people joked about it being sold by the quart. Apparently other parts of the world still do speed limit signs in MPH
- lumber stock — but a lot of things which are imported are in metric

And of course there’s that little matter of all those 6.35mm hex bits and 12.7mm sockets in the world, as well as rulers &c. — as tempted as I am by the one I linked, it’s just not worth it to me to switch, and the weird decimals which result when dividing into thirds, sixths, &c. in metric annoy me to no end.

Why don’t we all agree that everyone can use whatever measurement system is convenient, and that we will negotiate what system to use when interchanging / working together?

Aren’t there web browser plugins which will recalculate measurements to a desired system? Install one of those?

[Rod Sheridan]

I haven't seen an imperial fastener on an american vehicle in 20 years. All of my wrenches are metric, and they fit every bolt I've ever had to remove.



Those same 85% won't be able to understand metric decimal places either.

LOL.................Great point, I'm still laughing.................Regards, Rod.

[Pat Barry]

Pat; that's not fact; that's fiction. You need to do your homework.
Ok. You are right! I was adding some additional comic relief. :)

[Rod Sheridan]

The problem I have with metric is when the Canadien stations announce the temperatures in C, I don't know if I need shorts or a jacket.

-Tom

Tom, for Canadians, any positive Celsius temperature is shorts weather:D..................Regards, Rod.

[Stewie Simpson]

Ok. You are right! I was adding some additional comic relief. :)

Pat; I can think of another word; I thought you were better than that.

[Pat Barry]

Here's a real fact.

Of all the countries in the world, only three backwaters still use the archaic Imperial system of weights and measures: Liberia; Myanmar; and the USA.
Stewie, we use plenty of metric in the good old USA. Most of the folks here will forever hate metric though, but we did accept 2 liter Coke bottles a long time ago

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

Those same 85% won't be able to understand metric decimal places either.

Gerry; that's a bit of a sad indictment of our modern education system.


And parents relying on the schools to raise their children.

[David L Morse]

... we did accept 2 liter Coke bottles a long time ago

As well as 1/2 Liter water bottles and 3/4 Liter Jack Daniel's bottles.

Metric units can be counted in power of two fractions as well as decimals, the choice is a matter of arithmetic not unit systems.

[ron david]

it will all change as the old farts die off and the new generations accept it as fact. how many resisted seat belts but kids and grandkids don\t think twice about it. cell phones and drivimg may be another thing, but I imagine tchnology will take care of that
I still use Imperial measure in everyday use, but have no problem using metric wherever. the younger generations are taught in metric but still have to use metric as they still have to deal with dinosaurs in their mind
but in a sense the the US is different in that it doesn't subscribe to Imperial measure in that it's liquid measure is different. Gallons are smaller by volume.
ron

[Roger Feeley]

We live in limbo between the two systems. Our cars are largely metric so we have to keep metric tools around. But we also keep Fractional tools around too.

I would prefer to tear off the band-aid and start the process of conversion. Sure, I would have to acquire a collection of metric nuts, bolts and screws and who knows what else. As stuff wears out, we will see fractional goods get rarer and rarer.

[Jim Koepke]

I haven't seen an imperial fastener on an american vehicle in 20 years. All of my wrenches are metric, and they fit every bolt I've ever had to remove.

There are not many inch sizes a metric wrench can not handle.

3/8" is likely the most common inch size that doesn't convert to metric. The SAE sizes of 3/16", 7/32", 11/16" and 15/16" do not have metric equivalents and are not very common in automotive applications.

In the other direction there are a lot of common sizes that do not convert to common inch size wrenches; 6, 7, 10, 12, 15, 17, 18 and 20mm. 21mm isn't very commonly used but also doesn't convert.

jtk

[Kev Williams]

The reason we drive on the left is we 'mericans can't drag race and shift an ol' Muncie 4-speed left handed... ;)
http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/gears.gif

[Chuck Wintle]

The reason we drive on the left is we 'mericans can't drag race and shift an ol' Muncie 4-speed left handed... ;)
http://www.engraver1.com/gifs/gears.gif
the holdouts are mostly commonwealth nations and former colonies..Canada excluded. When the neighbor to the south drives on the right then Canadians drive on the right. I get the feeling the British pretty much do what they want. Including body weight measure in stones...that one is odd.

[Rich Riddle]

There are not many inch sizes a metric wrench can not handle.

3/8" is likely the most common inch size that doesn't convert to metric. The SAE sizes of 3/16", 7/32", 11/16" and 15/16" do not have metric equivalents and are not very common in automotive applications.

In the other direction there are a lot of common sizes that do not convert to common inch size wrenches; 6, 7, 10, 12, 15, 17, 18 and 20mm. 21mm isn't very commonly used but also doesn't convert.

jtkI pretty much use 13mm and 1/2" interchangeable but cannot remember which one is slightly larger.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Irony-
1. Top Gear, (BBC program on the telly) in that British bastion of metric supremacy, recites super car stats including: 1/4 mile time, time to 100 Miles/hr, and top speed in Miles/hr.
2. Somehow the entire world seems to manage to measure in a base 10-ish, 24-ish, 60-ish system, known commonly as a clock. And let's not forget that base 7-ish, 28-ish, leap-ish, 30-ish, 31-ish, 365-1/4-ish (almost-ish) system known commonly as a calendar.

For the metric proponents - If you want it in metric, buy it that way.
For the imperial proponents - If you want it in imperial, buy it that way.
(Law of Supply and Demand is not called a 'suggestion'. The marketplace will decide the winner.)

Or, the various sides could go to war. I propose we call it "Inch War I" - it just has a better ring than "Millimeter War I"! :)
Just think of the stories!! "There I was, flat on my back, out of ammo and not sure if 5.56mm NATO would fit my .223" M4, locked in mortal combat against a 12mm socket! Thankfully, I managed to get to my trusty 3/8" sash chisel!! WhoooHooo! you should of seen me then....."

[William Adams]

Yeah, it would be really nice if where possible, people would standardize on the sizes which are common.

There are a couple of charts which show how close some sizes are --- I really would like to see one which was nicely laid out and graphical and really communicated the nearest equivalencies nicely.

[Jim Koepke]

I pretty much use 13mm and 1/2" interchangeable but cannot remember which one is slightly larger.

The 1/2" wrench is a bit tight on a 13mm hex head. 1/2" is equal to 12.7mm.

A 1/4" wrench may be a tight fit on a 6.5mm hex head.

An 11/32" wrench may be a tight fit on a 9mm hex head.

An 11mm wrench may be a tight fit on a 7/16" hex head.

A 14mm wrench may be a tight fit on a 9/16" hex head.

A 22mm wrench may be a tight fit on a 7/8" hex head.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

Yeah, it would be really nice if where possible, people would standardize on the sizes which are common.

There are a couple of charts which show how close some sizes are --- I really would like to see one which was nicely laid out and graphical and really communicated the nearest equivalencies nicely.

Let's see if the formatting will hold:

Metric to SAE wrench sizes. 6.5mm is common in many wrench sets. A 'T' next to the wrench size indicates this wrench will be tight on its equivilent size nut, i.e. a 14mm wrench is snug on a 9/16 nut.



Millimeters

Inches



6

--



6.5

1/4 T



7

--



8

5/16



9

11/32 T



10

--



11 T

7/16



12

--



13

1/2 T



14 T

9/16



15

19/32*



16

5/8



17

--



18

--



19

3/4**



20

--



21

--



22 T

7/8



32

1-1/4***




*not common
**This is such a perfect match, it is used internationally for automobile wheel nuts (19 mm = 0.748" & 3/4" = 19.05 mm)
***If memory serves me well, this is the size of the hub nut on the rear axle of Volkswagons before '68 or so.

That has 7 metric sizes throughout the range not covered by an SAE wrench set.
3/16 would be tight on a 5mm, neither size is in most sets.
Three common SAE sizes, 3/8, 11/16 and 15/16 are not covered by the metric sizes.

Here is a screen shot:

340096

I have a printed chart on the wall in my shop with fractions from 1/64 - 1" converted to decimal and millimeters. Mostly it is used for finding numbered drill sizes.

jtk

[Keith Outten]

Wrenches and socket sets are cheap, the problem is thread sizes and measuring equipment which start to cost money to convert a shop or more importantly a business. I probably have more invested in the fasteners in my shop than any of the individual machines so I will keep my fractions until I close the doors.

Mixing standards of measurement and machines in a commercial shop is not the best practice IMO. Ask NASA about a very costly mistake they made once upon a time :)

[Chris Padilla]

I'm on board to push the metric system through. My wife is from Europe so I've already gotten a feel for temperature in Celsius as I've changed all such device to C when possible.

And when I'm communicating dimensions to my wife, I force myself to use the metric system so I have a better feel for the lengths.

Weights in grams or kg and volumes in liters are still a bit tougher for my head but I'm forging ahead.

The metric system IS slowly creeping into our society so one day, we'll all feel more comfortable with it...one day....

[Tony Zona]

. . .

Mixing standards of measurement and machines in a commercial shop is not the best practice IMO. Ask NASA about a very costly mistake they made once upon a time :)

Ask Capt. Robert Pearson of Air Canada. (Pilot of The Gimli Glider, I think the situation was called.)

[Jim Becker]

I'm setup that I can work in metric in my shop and am working toward picking "the project" where I'll stick to it as a first step. I can only cite habit for still using Imperial in that context. My kids learned metric in school and appropriate measurements that Professor Dr. SWMBO might use in her work are expressed in metric.

There are a lot of things like measuring systems and other things we "still use" in the good old USA that I believe are mostly out of habit, rather than good sense. Metric makes sense, but making sense isn't embraced as a good reason sometimes. Go figure. LOL

[Jim Koepke]

Ask Capt. Robert Pearson of Air Canada. (Pilot of The Gimli Glider, I think the situation was called.)

Ah yes, one of the first big boo boos when planes were switching their systems to metric. It didn't help that the onboard electronics were having a bit of trouble as well.

Just a wee miscalculation and a few names live in history.

It is worth a trip with Dr. Google to read all about it.

jtk

[Chuck Wintle]

Ah yes, one of the first big boo boos when planes were switching their systems to metric. It didn't help that the onboard electronics were having a bit of trouble as well.

Just a wee miscalculation and a few names live in history.

It is worth a trip with Dr. Google to read all about it.

jtk
Yes I remember the Gimli Glider quite well. It did not help that the refuelers were somewhat stupid and should have realized they under-fueled the plane? Its what they do for a living but knowing a bit about Air Canada's unions there are many dummies who can only see their watch and the pension.

[Kev Williams]

A few years ago the wife gave me a Crescent socket set for xmas, similar to this one--
https://images-eu.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qvCGthL-L._AC_UL320_SR262,320_.jpg
The sockets fit the points on nuts & bolts rather than the flats, so each socket will fit an SAE and a metric size.
The sockets and the ratchet are hollow, so until you need an extension you don't need deepwell sockets. Works great.
It's come in very handy several times...

And to beat this horse just a little more--- Until the "Metric Society" comes up with a catchy, usable, one-word synonym for "10", then I'll be more than happy buying a dozen eggs and a dozen donuts, a dozen months equaling a year, and a dozen inches equaling a foot.

Not everything has to be in 10's ;)

[Brian Elfert]

And to beat this horse just a little more--- Until the "Metric Society" comes up with a catchy, usable, one-word synonym for "10", then I'll be more than happy buying a dozen eggs and a dozen donuts, a dozen months equaling a year, and a dozen inches equaling a foot.


If they do come up with a word to replace a dozen that is only ten then I bet ten donuts will cost that same as a dozen and ten eggs will cost the same as a dozen too.

[John Sanford]

The metric system is, relatively speaking, quite inhuman. It is not based in any fashion on PEOPLE.

Oh, and not going to metric is fun because it bugs the hell out of some folks.

[Wayne Lomman]

The metric system is a system of measurement, not a method of counting. We have been metric for nearly 50 years and guess what - we still have dozens, weeks, months and so on. I can even go to the baker and get an actual baker's dozen of rolls, pies etc. As I have no doubt said elsewhere, our government rightly sets standards of measurement but it can't and doesn't tell us how to think. Cheers

[Bob Grier]

The process of converting to metric in the USA is/has been interesting. Converting seems logical for many reasons but it hasn't happened for other logical reasons. For the USA I think the process will continue to drag out for a long time. I think the reason we haven't converted ultimately gets down to the USA economy is so large that resistance to change has been economically feasible.

IMHO, there will be a day some of us will live to see when the final tip to metric happens and we ask that speed limit signs be posted in metric and we order plywood my the metric designation instead of the imperial designation (6mm instead of 1/4" and 12mm instead of 1/2"). After all, it is really 6mm and not 1/4".

[Jim Koepke]

[edit]
IMHO, there will be a day some of us will live to see when the final tip to metric happens and we ask that speed limit signs be posted in metric and we order plywood my the metric designation instead of the imperial designation (6mm instead of 1/4" and 12mm instead of 1/2"). After all, it is really 6mm and not 1/4".

Doubtful, look at a "pint" of ice cream. Most of them are 14 ounces, not 16. It was done to avoid raising the price, but since then the price has risen anyway. Same with "half gallon" containers of ice cream.

As long as Americans are fine with products that do not have their country of origin or are labeled as "brass" with just a thin coat of brass on steel or pot metal, we will be happy to be oblivious that our 2x4s are really only 1-1/2" by 3-1/2".

People will see converting gallons of gas to liters as just one more way to rip off the public.

Maybe in our yet to be born great grandchildren's lifetime there might be a tip to metric.

jtk

[Tom Stenzel]

Any measuring system that starts with:

"Take 44.36 ml of whiskey..."

won't gain any traction at my house.

-Tom

[ron david]

The process of converting to metric in the USA is/has been interesting. Converting seems logical for many reasons but it hasn't happened for other logical reasons. For the USA I think the process will continue to drag out for a long time. I think the reason we haven't converted ultimately gets down to the USA economy is so large that resistance to change has been economically feasible.

IMHO, there will be a day some of us will live to see when the final tip to metric happens and we ask that speed limit signs be posted in metric and we order plywood my the metric designation instead of the imperial designation (6mm instead of 1/4" and 12mm instead of 1/2"). After all, it is really 6mm and not 1/4".
it depends quite a bit on imorting and exporting goods/ take your plywood.I have been buying baltic birch for 40 years and it has always been metric. what does it matter anyway; when have you last bought domestic plywood when it has actually been on size. up here we have been exporting lumber to Japan and places and it has been in metric
The real kicker is glass. you buy it as 2 or 3 mil right. it has been called that for ever. a few years back I had to rebuild a couple of exterior teak doors on a 105' yacht. I had to also install new glass in them. so I phoned a few glass shops and gave them the measure all in metric. they were lost. I also asked for it to be 1cm thick. the reply was we don't have it that thin. thy were not hearing what I said. I had asked for 1 cm for 3/8" ; they were thinking 1ml. the 1 cm caught them off guard. I gave them all the measures in Imperial and they were happy
ron

[ron david]

Any measuring system that starts with:

"Take 44.36 ml of whiskey..."

won't gain any traction at my house.

-Tom
doesn't matter what the nbr is your going to drink it anyway
ron

[Dave Moorhouse]

Oh yeah, and it’s also a hoot when the metric purists have to get out a 6.35mm hex bit (1/4") or 12.7mm socket (1/2") or a 1.27mm Allen wrench or Torx bit (0.050").

Except that the inch was officially redefined as 25.4mm in 1959 (http://www.npl.co.uk/reference/faqs/on-what-basis-is-one-inch-exactly-equal-to-25.4-mm-has-the-imperial-inch-been-adjusted-to-give-this-exact-fit-and-if-so-when-(faq-length))

The metre (and 1/100 as cm, 1/1000 as mm, etc) has its own definition (see http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html)

[Rod Sheridan]

Any measuring system that starts with:

"Take 44.36 ml of whiskey..."

won't gain any traction at my house.

-Tom

LOL.................You're looking at this all wrong Tom.

In metric it would be take 50ml of whiskey.................All my friends that like whiskey agree that 50ml is better than 44.36 ml............Rod.

[Keith Outten]

Except that the inch was officially redefined as 25.4mm in 1959 (http://www.npl.co.uk/reference/faqs/on-what-basis-is-one-inch-exactly-equal-to-25.4-mm-has-the-imperial-inch-been-adjusted-to-give-this-exact-fit-and-if-so-when-(faq-length))

The metre (and 1/100 as cm, 1/1000 as mm, etc) has its own definition (see http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/meter.html)

Sorry, until the ANSI redefines the value of an inch it hasn't changed in the USA. I have been in more machine shops than I can count over the past four decades and the inch has never changed. All of my M&TE is still based on the original value. I can't imagine the impact it would have had converting one inch to equal 25.4mm. Twenty threads per inch pitch would be something different and most fasteners would not fit during a period of change to the value of an inch. The medical community can do whatever they please but it will be two hundred years before there is any significant changes to American manufacturing as existing machines in factories and farms will have to be long gone before we will stop supporting them with fasteners and other devices based on ANSI Standards.

[Rod Sheridan]

The US yard was defined as 0.9144 metres in July 1959 by the US Bureau of Standards as illustrated from their website.


340244

The problem with the Imperial and US measurements was that they required reference samples.

The metric system at one time required fixed samples as as well, which is almost impossible to work with. The metre was redefined in 1980.

For us mere mortals a tape measure is sufficiently accurate however for science and technology accurate standards are required.

The metre standard can be reproduced in many laboratories, which is why it was adopted as the standard for the inch.

Regards, Rod.

[Chuck Wintle]

For me I think its a question of what one has grown up with. It was Farenheit when I was a kid but then a certain prime minister of canada decided we need the metric system..just like that. But now temperature in Celsius makes more sense, with 0 and 100 as the freezing and boiling point

[John Stankus]

The US yard was defined as 0.9144 metres in July 1959 by the US Bureau of Standards as illustrated from their website.


340244

The problem with the Imperial and US measurements was that they required reference samples.



The U.S. customary standards have been based on metric standards since 1893.
http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/metric/upload/frn-59-5442-1959.pdf

That same National Bureau of Standards bulletin defines the U.S. definition of an inch at 25.4 mm (actually it defines the yard as 0.9144 meters exactly and as such the inch is exactly 25.4 mm, which is what Rod is saying

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

just for fun...don't get your knickers in a twist... :D

[Rod Sheridan]

LOL, very good, that was funny...........Rod.

[Chuck Wintle]

just for fun...don't get your knickers in a twist... :D
Ironically i am willing to bet that Nasa uses/did use metric units exclusively? I may be wrong about that.

[Wayne Lomman]

For those of you who think metric/base 10is not based on anything human, have you counted you fingers lately? Those who like me would only get to base 9 1/2 counting this way are excused. Cheers

[ron david]

just for fun...don't get your knickers in a twist... :D
have you replaced it lately?
ron

[Allan Speers]

I'll never forget when they tried to start switching to metric in the USA. (early 80's I think?)

They decided to start making signs and product labels with BOTH measurements, so folks would start getting some reference points into their heads. Well, that made sense, except the idiot in charge of the whole program had them put the imperial measurements FIRST instead of second. Therefore, everyone simply ignored the second number.

What a waste of tax dollars.

[William Adams]

For NASA's Apollo mission, controls / instrumentations were in the then-standard / familiar imperial units:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Dsky.jpg

Note degrees Fahrenheit and PSIA (Pounds per Square Inch Absolute).

[Chris Padilla]

For NASA's Apollo mission, controls / instrumentations were in the then-standard / familiar imperial units:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Dsky.jpg

Note degrees Fahrenheit and PSIA (Pounds per Square Inch Absolute).

Note the velcro!! :D

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I can easily flip between metric and standard, as well as driving on the left or the right of the road. It just takes practice. Here is a nice map. The green is metric. Enough said.

340335

[Bill Jobe]

I'm having a horible time with TF and FC just running 1,000 ft instead of a quarter mile. I just can't relate.:confused:
Maybe if they went to metric.
Still, 100mph in the first 60 feet......

[Rod Sheridan]

For those of you who think metric/base 10is not based on anything human, have you counted you fingers lately? Those who like me would only get to base 9 1/2 counting this way are excused. Cheers

Wayne, I only have 8 fingers, you're somewhat unusual with 9 1/2:D

Regards, Rod.

[Grant Wilkinson]

The obvious (to a Canadian) solution for my US cousins is to do what we did in Canada - the typical Canadian compromise.

We buy gas and milk in litres, but 2 x 4 studs. Plywood is still called 4 x 8, not its metric equivalent. Meat is more often than not labelled in both grams/kilograms and pounds/ounces. I can still buy stone by the ton = 2000 lbs. Our ceilings are 8 or 9 feet high in our houses, and fluorescent tubes are 4 or 8 feet long.

In short, Canada chose to do whatever was the most inconvenient and confusing method of measurement possible.

Finally, our pressure is measured in kilopascals. That is neither imperial - psi or metric - millibars. I believe, but may be mistaken, that only Canada and France use kilopascals.

Great fun, eh?

[Chris Padilla]

I can easily flip between metric and standard, as well as driving on the left or the right of the road. It just takes practice. Here is a nice map. The green is metric. Enough said.

340335



I just had to speak to the driving on the left side of the road. I took my family to the Bahamas for vacation in June for 2 weeks. It was recommended to me to NOT rent a car because local transportation was readily available and driving on the left side may not fly for some. Also, it was nice to avoid the expense because EVERYTHING over there is quite expensive! As I was driven around on various shuttles, buses, and cabs, I convinced myself that driving on the left would be quite challenging and not at all comfortable for me so I'm glad to have avoided it. Many times I felt the driver was doing some VERY wrong and dangerous but, of course, it was just me. Add to the mix that I'm in an unfamiliar place and I think I made a smart choice.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I just had to speak to the driving on the left side of the road. I took my family to the Bahamas for vacation in June for 2 weeks. It was recommended to me to NOT rent a car because local transportation was readily available and driving on the left side may not fly for some. Also, it was nice to avoid the expense because EVERYTHING over there is quite expensive! As I was driven around on various shuttles, buses, and cabs, I convinced myself that driving on the left would be quite challenging and not at all comfortable for me so I'm glad to have avoided it. Many times I felt the driver was doing some VERY wrong and dangerous but, of course, it was just me. Add to the mix that I'm in an unfamiliar place and I think I made a smart choice.

Chris, in our travels overseas, I elected the same as you plus..... some years ago when I began using local tours when visiting Glacier National Park, Yellowstone National Park and other tourist spots. Take "Going To The Sun Highway" in Glacier. Keep in mind my wife of 47 years is a dedicated "flat lander". If I was driving up Going To the Sun Highway to Logan Pass, I would not see anything except the road. My wife wouldn't see anything because she'd be eyeing me to insure my eyes were on the road. For the two of us the trip would not be as enjoyable. By using local travel companies, I can view the scenery and visit with others.

Our last trip to New Zealand, we flew into Christchurch from Melbourne, Australia. For the next two weeks, we used regularly scheduled trains, buses and a ferry to travel from the South Island to the North Island. There public transportation works well. We did use limo drivers to get to and from the airports. Some times we walked, dragging our bags to get from bus stations to our hotels. It's a neat, less stressful way to see a foreign country.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I just had to speak to the driving on the left side of the road. I took my family to the Bahamas for vacation in June for 2 weeks. It was recommended to me to NOT rent a car because local transportation was readily available and driving on the left side may not fly for some. Also, it was nice to avoid the expense because EVERYTHING over there is quite expensive! As I was driven around on various shuttles, buses, and cabs, I convinced myself that driving on the left would be quite challenging and not at all comfortable for me so I'm glad to have avoided it. Many times I felt the driver was doing some VERY wrong and dangerous but, of course, it was just me. Add to the mix that I'm in an unfamiliar place and I think I made a smart choice.

I frequently do business in Nassau and Freeport. Their roads are good! They just redid the airport road. You should have seen it when people were trying to pass on a 2-lane.

The one thing that I do still struggle with is right hand drive cars. We drive on the left, but all I ur cars are US imports, so they are left hand steering. I often get right hand drive rentals in other islands and it feels weird. I have adapted to it.

My favorite story is once in Aruba I rented a car and drove away. My employee called me to see if I was ok driving. I said, "Yes- no problem- we also drive on the left " He said, "Malcolm, we drive on the RIGHT in Aruba." He is always joking around so I thought he was kidding. Just then I met a truck head-on. Yikes!

The key is to follow the rest of the traffic. Once you do it for a few days you fall right into it.

[Chris Padilla]

Malcolm,

Perhaps actually forcing myself to do it might have made a big difference and maybe one day, I'll get to England and actually have to do it but as a passenger, "Yikes!" :)

Ken,

Yep, I hear you. Most of the time, I do rent a car because I like the freedom that comes with it. However, in the Bahamas, it really wasn't necessary at all although I will admit to feeling somewhat trapped on Paradise Island where we stayed 99% of the time.

[Bill Orbine]

I can easily flip between metric and standard, as well as driving on the left or the right of the road. It just takes practice. Here is a nice map. The green is metric. Enough said.

340335

That imperial/metric map makes me just proud to be an American (USA).

[Tony Zona]

Driving on the right in Ireland for ten days was not difficult at all.

I made only one mistake that I know of and it resulted in a courteous little horn toot, not a blaring horn. I love the Irish, so warm and courteous even when I messed up on that four lane road.

In Rome, the driving didn't seem all that difficult. We took only buses and cabs, though. The tough part would have been parking. They park everywhere, even on corners. On the Amalfi Coast I inquired and parking there was 40 Euros an hour. We were in a bus.

In Rome, we mostly walked and took trains.

[Wayne Lomman]

Got me there! The usual insult I get as a Tasmanian is having 2 heads (the main land states use this on us all the time). To all the comedians, I should have said fingers and thumbs! Cheers.

[Jim Becker]

Driving on the right in Ireland for ten days was not difficult at all.

I did the same a number of years ago for nearly a week. The most challenging part was roundabouts and making sure that "correct lane" was where I was after any kind of intersection. By the end of a day or two, it got a lot more "natural"...

[Rich Riddle]

Driving on the left in Ireland a few years ago wasn't the problem, but when turning I wanted to turn into the right lane despite the rental car indicating they drove on the left. Shifting with the left hand left a bit to be desired as well. They don't get to touch tools in the stores over there. They seemed shocked when I told them that one could handle the tools in the stores in the USA. Standing behind a rope and gawking at tools didn't do much for me.

[John K Jordan]

Shifting with the left hand left a bit to be desired as well.

In the Cayman Islands many people, tourists included, drove motor scooters. Scooter + tourist + left-side-driving + too many vehicles = a bunch of "black spot" markers on the sides of the roads. A local told me each black spot marked a fatality. Truth or fiction?

Last time I was in Great Britain I got a very nice diesel auto with a stick shift. Between the shifting on with the left hand, the 4-lane roundabouts full of impatient drivers in London, some insanely obscure road signs, and the tight streets in the little towns, I was a basket case the first day. I adapted and did OK the rest of the week. A GPS is helpful.

Italy is actually more challenging. Although they drive on the "correct" side of the road, they do it very quickly and tailgating must be required by law on the autostrade. It almost looked like they picked random village names for the signs in the mountains so getting lost was part of the fun. And in far northern Italy all the signs are in both German and Italian. Can't wait to go back next year!!

JKJ

[Allan Speers]

In the Cayman Islands many people, tourists included, drove motor scooters. Scooter + tourist + left-side-driving + too many vehicles = a bunch of "black spot" markers on the sides of the roads. A local told me each black spot marked a fatality. Truth or fiction?
JKJ

I dunno about the Caymans, or black marks, but I was working in Bermuda once for about 8 months, and sort of dated a female doctor. She told me the number of such fatalities and it was astronomical. (All those drunken Americans on tiny scooters.) - But the government does everything it can to keep the public from knowing, as it would harm tourism.

I personally came within a mosquito's whisker of joining those statistics one night, literally scraped between a stone wall and a truck coming at me around a curve. Me having taken that rt-hand curve, at high speed, on the right side of the road.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

That imperial/metric map makes me just proud to be an American (USA).

...or Burmese.

[Rod Sheridan]

...or Burmese.

LOL...............A few years ago I did a pipe design for my brothers

I reprinted the drawing in imperial units, and in the scale box wrote "Imperial, just like Botswana"

We still laugh about that when we get together..............Rod.

[Rich Riddle]

I just changed the oil on my F150. The drain plug was 14mm. Seems like car manufacturers made the change more than I thought.

[Frank Drew]

just for fun...don't get your knickers in a twist... :D

That's funny, Shawn!

Reminds me of the old song lyric, "I want an ounce of weed and a quart of beer, and I want 'em measured right!"

(And I could add, "Get off my lawn, you damn kids!!")

It's funny that some here are using 2x4s as an example of a familiar measurement that they don't want to have to convert since, as has been pointed out, it's been years and years since they've actually been two inches by four inches. I started woodworking in 1971 and since then I've only seen actual 2x4s a couple of times, and those were pre-existing in old buildings being remodeled (or torn down).

The song lyric above notwithstanding, a lot of the opposition to metric seems simply like old fuddy-duddyism. And I don't think it's going to take anything like two centuries to make the switch pretty much complete.

[Bill Gugel]

There are two types of countries. Those that use the metric system and those that have put men on the moon.

[Chuck Wintle]

There are two types of countries. Those that use the metric system and those that have put men on the moon.

Good point! although I am willing to bet the metric system would be used for any future moon landings?

[Keith Outten]

Fuddy Duddy = Old Fart

Its true but I'm not alone :)

Its not you hobby guys who are the holdup converting from Imperial to Metric, its power plants, dams, huge earth moving machines, shipyards, etc, etc.
I've seen micrometers so big they had to be handled with a crane, metal lathes that are close to 75 yards long and boring mills that just fifty years ago were the largest mills in the world. Huge industries that were built on the Imperial system that cannot be changed in a century, they may never change to the metric system. They manufacture and install boilers that weigh more than a house, reactor vessels, steam generators, and pumps so large that the average person can't even imagine their size. The ships and machines will be in service for over fifty years in some cases, some machines over a century (think Hover Dam). You have to maintain the necessary equipment and expertise to be able to rebuild or replace this stuff.

Once the Imperial system takes a back seat to Metric Imperial fasteners, simple lead screws and other mechanical parts will all have to be custom made. The cost will skyrocket. In some cases it won't be feasible financially to replace the machines that are necessary to provide new parts. I know that a machinist can generally produce metric parts on an Imperial lathe but that isn't always the case. Mathematical conversions can also be very difficult as well in some types of industries and the probability of making a mistake increases.

This is a VERY BIG issue, its way more complicated than a woodworker using a 20 dollar caliper in his home shop. Even the automotive industry is minor in comparison. Have you ever used a drill bit that is so small you can't see it? They are very expensive.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Here is a question- Why do some metric socket sets skip the 16mm? I have also seen them skip the 18mm, i.e. The set has 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19...

[Jerome Stanek]

Here is a question- Why do some metric socket sets skip the 16mm? I have also seen them skip the 18mm, i.e. The set has 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19...

I know about that as I had to go and get one that was missed in the set I think it was the 18mm

[Curt Harms]

Good point! although I am willing to bet the metric system would be used for any future moon landings?


Pretty safe bet, I think. China uses the metric system.

[Rod Sheridan]

Here is a question- Why do some metric socket sets skip the 16mm? I have also seen them skip the 18mm, i.e. The set has 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19...


The sets with few sockets skip 16 and 18 because they're rarely used sizes.

I have complete sets that start at 10 and go to 32 in 1mm increments.

It's the same for SAE sets, I have wrench sets in X/32" sizes, not commonly used today.....Rod

[Rod Sheridan]

There are two types of countries. Those that use the metric system and those that have put men on the moon.

Yup, and the people who put men on the moon are now metric..............Rod.

http://www.space.com/3332-nasa-finally-metric.html

[Chuck Wintle]

Pretty safe bet, I think. China uses the metric system.
I am hoping the united states will retake the lead in space exploration...and return to the moon and start a settlement.

[Wayne Lomman]

Keith, there is no need to worry. All these issues exist in Australia and forty odd years on, the old infrastructure is being maintained just fine. Costs have not gone through the roof and we have to maintain a country nearly as large as the USA with 1/10th of the population. I know this first hand from working on many power stations and road/rail bridges (to pay the bills) and in engineering shops over the past 20 years. You can still buy all the imperial tooling and fasteners etc to maintain everything.

New work is metric because now no-one wants to use imperial. The change is evolutionary rather than revolutionary. As one old timer used to say to me, "95 years from now, we will have forgotten all about it!" Cheers

[Keith Outten]

Wayne,

I'm not worried, I'm semi-retired :)
When I receive requests for job quotes that have drawings that use metric dimensions I no-bid those jobs. Obviously I can convert measurements but I know how risky it is to accept a large project and make a mistake and I'm not alone. For me small jobs are a nuisance and that narrows down my work options considerably.

I just bought a new Polaris Sportsman 570 ATV so I'm planning on more trail riding and even less work but I just can't quit working altogether until I'm not able.
.

[Rich Riddle]

Keith,

Besides administrating the Creek, what is your job?

[ron david]

Fuddy Duddy = Old Fart

Its true but I'm not alone :)

Its not you hobby guys who are the holdup converting from Imperial to Metric, its power plants, dams, huge earth moving machines, shipyards, etc, etc.
I've seen micrometers so big they had to be handled with a crane, metal lathes that are close to 75 yards long and boring mills that just fifty years ago were the largest mills in the world. Huge industries that were built on the Imperial system that cannot be changed in a century, they may never change to the metric system. They manufacture and install boilers that weigh more than a house, reactor vessels, steam generators, and pumps so large that the average person can't even imagine their size. The ships and machines will be in service for over fifty years in some cases, some machines over a century (think Hover Dam). You have to maintain the necessary equipment and expertise to be able to rebuild or replace this stuff.

Once the Imperial system takes a back seat to Metric Imperial fasteners, simple lead screws and other mechanical parts will all have to be custom made. The cost will skyrocket. In some cases it won't be feasible financially to replace the machines that are necessary to provide new parts. I know that a machinist can generally produce metric parts on an Imperial lathe but that isn't always the case. Mathematical conversions can also be very difficult as well in some types of industries and the probability of making a mistake increases.

This is a VERY BIG issue, its way more complicated than a woodworker using a 20 dollar caliper in his home shop. Even the automotive industry is minor in comparison. Have you ever used a drill bit that is so small you can't see it? They are very expensive.
everything evolves sooner or later. there are only 3 countries left in the world that still use imperial measure. most of that big equipment is now coming offshore to you.
Fuddy Duddy = Old Fart or curmudgeon.
ron

[William Adams]

Article on the Heavy Press program here: http://boingboing.net/2012/02/13/machines.html

To come full circle, the 1/8" titanium sheeting which was used in early versions of the Knew Concept fret/coping saws came from one of these presses or one of their successors.

[Curt Harms]

I just changed the oil on my F150. The drain plug was 14mm. Seems like car manufacturers made the change more than I thought.


2001 Ranger also has a 14 mm. oil plug. I can't recall finding an SAE fastener on that vehicle though there may be some.

[James White]

Thank you for sharing that! It really bolsters what Kieth was saying regarding the monumental task it really is to change over.


Article on the Heavy Press program here: http://boingboing.net/2012/02/13/machines.html

To come full circle, the 1/8" titanium sheeting which was used in early versions of the Knew Concept fret/coping saws came from one of these presses or one of their successors.

[Rod Sheridan]

Thank you for sharing that! It really bolsters what Kieth was saying regarding the monumental task it really is to change over.

It isn't a monumental job at all to change.

Modern measuring systems are being refitted to old machines all the time.

Mechanical systems such as lead screws can remain Imperial, all that changes is the drive ratios for them.

As machines become obsolete they're replaced with modern machines that are no longer Imperial.

To think you can't make an Imperial dimensioned part on a metric machine is generally not true. The standard for the inch is 25.4mm, this value is used to calibrate Imperial devices.

To not update means to be left behind, when an engine manufacturer sends out requests for quotations for pistons and the supplier comes back with the answer that they can't make a metric piston, they're out of the running. You can only turn down so much business before you go out of business.............Rod.

[ron david]

In 1998, Kodak had 170,000 employees and sold 85% of all photo paper worldwide. Within just a few years, their business model disappeared and they went bankrupt.
What happened to Kodak will happen in a lot of industries in the next 10 years - and most people didn't see it coming. Did you think in 1998 that 3 years later you would never take pictures on paper film again? Yet digital cameras were invented in 1975. The first ones only had 10,000 pixels, but followed Moore's law.
So as with all exponential technologies, it was a disappointment for a long time, before it became superior and mainstream in only a few short years. It will now happen with Artificial Intelligence, health, autonomous and electric cars, education, 3D printing, agriculture and jobs.
Welcome to the 4th Industrial Revolution.
Welcome to the Exponential Age.
Software will disrupt most traditional industries in the next 5-10 years.
Uber is just a software tool, they don't own any cars, and are now the biggest taxi company in the world.
Airbnb is now the biggest hotel company in the world, although they don't own any properties.
Artificial Intelligence: Computers become exponentially better in understanding the world.
This year, a computer beat the best Go player in the world, 10 years earlier than expected.
In the US, young lawyers already don't get jobs.
Because of IBM Watson, you can get legal advice (so far for more or less basic stuff) within seconds, with 90% accuracy compared with 70% accuracy when done by humans.
So if you study law, stop immediately.
There will be 90% less lawyers in the future, only specialists will remain.
Watson already helps nurses diagnosing cancer, 4 times more accurately than human nurses.
Facebook now has a pattern recognition software that can recognize faces better than humans.
In 2030, computers will become more intelligent than humans.
Autonomous cars: In 2018 the first self-driving cars will appear in public.
Around 2020, the complete industry will start to be disrupted.
You don't want to own a car anymore.
You will call a car with your phone, it will show up at your location and drive you to your destination.
You will not need to park it, you only pay for the driven distance and can be productive while driving.
Our kids will never get a driver's license and will never own a car.
It will change the cities, because we will need 90-95% less cars for that.
We can transform former parking space into parks. (1.2 million people die each year in car accidents worldwide.)
We now have one accident every 100,000 km, with autonomous driving that will drop to one accident in 10 million km.
That will save a million lives each year.
Most car companies might go bankrupt.
Traditional car companies try the evolutionary approach and just build a better car, while tech companies (Tesla, Apple, Google) will do the revolutionary approach and build a computer on wheels.
I spoke to a lot of engineers from Volkswagen and Audi; they are completely terrified of Tesla.
Insurance companies will have massive trouble because without accidents, the insurance will become 100x cheaper.
Their car insurance business model will disappear.
Real estate will change.
Because if you can work while you commute, people will move further away to live in a more beautiful neighborhood.
Electric cars will become mainstream until 2020.
Cities will be less noisy because all cars will run on batteries
Electricity will become incredibly cheap and clean: Solar production has been on an exponential curve for 30 years, but you can only now see the impact.
Last year, more solar energy was installed worldwide than fossil.
The price for solar will drop so much that all coal companies will be out of business by 2025.
With cheap electricity comes cheap and abundant water.
Desalination now only needs 2kWh per cubic meter.
We don't have scarce water in most places, we only have scarce drinking water.
Imagine what will be possible if anyone can have as much clean water as he wants, for nearly no cost.
Health: The Tricorder X price will be announced this year.
There will be companies who will build a medical device (called the "Tricorder" from Star Trek) that works with your phone, which takes your retina scan, your blood sample and you breath into it.
It then analyses 54 bio-markers that will identify nearly any disease.
It will be cheap, so in a few years everyone on this planet will have access to world class medicine, nearly for free.
3D printing: The price of the cheapest 3D printer came down from $18,000 to $400 within 10 years.
In the same time, it became 100 times faster.
All major shoe companies started 3D printing shoes.
Spare airplane parts are already 3D printed in remote airports.
The space station now has a printer that eliminates the need for the large amount of spare parts they used to have in the past.
At the end of this year, new smart-phones will have 3D scanning possibilities.
You can then 3D scan your feet and print your perfect shoe at home.
In China, they already 3D printed a complete 6-story office building.
By 2027, 10% of everything that's being produced will be 3D printed.
Business opportunities: If you think of a niche you want to go in, ask yourself: "In the future, do you think we will have that?" and if the answer is yes, how can you make that happen sooner?
If it doesn't work with your phone, forget the idea.
And any idea designed for success in the 20th century is doomed to failure in the 21st century.
Work: 70-80% of jobs will disappear in the next 20 years.
There will be a lot of new jobs, but it is not clear if there will be enough new jobs in such a small time.
Agriculture: There will be a $100 agricultural robot in the future.
Farmers in 3rd world countries can then become managers of their field instead of working all day in their fields.
Aeroponics will need much less water.
The first petri dish-produced veal is now available and will be cheaper than cow-produced veal in 2018.
Right now, 30% of all agricultural surfaces is used for cows.
Imagine if we don't need that space anymore.
There are several startups who will bring insect protein to the market shortly.
It contains more protein than meat.
It will be labeled as "alternative protein source" (because most people still reject the idea of eating insects).
There is an app called "moodies" which can already tell in which mood you are.
Until 2020 there will be apps that can tell by your facial expressions if you are lying.
Imagine a political debate where it's being displayed when they are telling the truth and when not.
Bitcoin will become mainstream this year and might even become the default reserve currency.
Longevity: Right now, the average life span increases by 3 months per year.
Four years ago, the life span used to be 79 years, now it's 80 years.
The increase itself is increasing and by 2036, there will be more than one year increase per year.
So we all might live for a long, long time, probably way more than 100.
Education: The cheapest smart-phones are already at $10 in Africa and Asia.
By 2020, 70% of all humans will own a smartphone.
That means, everyone has the same access to world class education.

ron

[William Adams]

Here are some other numbers:

- we're currently burning 10 calories of petro-chemical energy to get 1 calorie of food energy
- the limiting element for biomass in the earth's crust is phosphorous --- look up the reserves for that and note which country has stopped exporting it
- one hard limit on industry and lifestyle is the planet's ability to radiate excess heat to space

[Pat Barry]

In 1998, Kodak had 170,000 employees....<snip>

ron


So, lots of fluff mixed with an occasional fact. ... what does this say about the metric system and the need to convert to it??

[Wayne Lomman]

Right on the money there Pat. Keep it on topic. Ron, please quote your sources for this list of predictions for our future Utopia/Hades. Cheers

[Tom Stenzel]

Years ago I belonged to a Saturn forum. One person that lived in Europe posted that he had bought one (how or why I don't know) and had purchased Imperial wrenches to work on it. Luckily I wasn't the one to tell him that the S series Saturns, introduced in 1991, were entirely metric and Torx fasteners. I'm not sure of Torx. Are they Imperial, Metric or belong to some alternative universe?

When Dennis Archer was mayor of Detroit, he issued a directive (printed on 81/2" x 11" paper) that all future contracts were to be in Metric. The directive was ignored. Years later I dug in the cabinets to find my copy of it, never did. I doubt if anyone remembers it.

As far as landing on the Moon, the moon is 2159.2 miles in diameter but only 3474 kilometers in diameter. Since it's so much smaller in Metric it'll be harder to hit with a spaceship.

I'll get my coat now.

;-)

-Tom

[Art Mann]

. . . Ron, please quote your sources for this list of predictions for our future Utopia/Hades. Cheers

My characterization of the outcomes predicted by Ron tend more toward "Hades" rather than "Utopia". :rolleyes:

[Tony Zona]

Copy the first sentence in Ron's prediction post.

Paste it into a search engine.

If you can determine the original author, you're doing better than me.

I'm afraid it has been widely stolen, so I will assume Ron is the original author since he posted here. In which case I would like to see some source citations.

And what does it have to do with metric conversion, anyhow?

[Jim Koepke]

As this thread grows on forever, I keep asking myself, what benefit is there in converting to metric?

It will not put another penny in my pocket. It will not put any more food on my table.

Currently if something I purchase is metric, no big deal to me.

If something I need is in inches, it isn't a bother.

If something I used to buy in feet is now sold in meters, I can likely convert it in my head. It likely would be folly to expect the average store's clerks of being capable of such a task.

jtk

[Wayne Lomman]

I think you are right there Jim. As an overseas observer, it has been interesting learning how this is evolving in USA. How Australia converted worked with our political system. Our federal government can legislate binding law for all the states and territories uniformly and we are ok with that. It appears that it is more an evolutionary process in the USA. 95 years from now we will have forgotten all about it... Cheers

[Curt Harms]

As this thread grows on forever, I keep asking myself, what benefit is there in converting to metric?

It will not put another penny in my pocket. It will not put any more food on my table.

Currently if something I purchase is metric, no big deal to me.

If something I need is in inches, it isn't a bother.

If something I used to buy in feet is now sold in meters, I can likely convert it in my head. It likely would be folly to expect the average store's clerks of being capable of such a task.

jtk

It might if being willing & able to produce products in metric sizes gives you an advantage selling to markets that use metric measurements, e.g. most of the world.

[James White]

I do not argue that there is not a need to continue our move toward the metric system and joining the rest of the world. But I cant help but wonder if it is just one more step removed from our roots and sense of being human for the sake of production efficiency. After all our current system is based on the foot! Post #148 above by Art. Makes me feel like I want no part of that world.

I am only part way through By Hand and Eye. For those that are on the fence about it. I say jump!

The authors are promoting a style of design based on human proportion. Such as so many hands deep by so many hands high etc... Here is a small excerpt.

Christopher Wren, one
of the giants of British architecture in the 17th and early 18th centuries, was also an
accomplished scientist in the fields of astronomy and medicine. As an influential
member of Britain’s fledgling scientific society he embraced the new mathematics
of the Age of Reason. Yet he left perhaps the largest body of design work from
his era, all based on the older language of simple geometry – simple shapes and
whole-number proportions.
Ultimately it wasn’t science,
but the relentless pressure
to mass-produce driven by
the Industrial Revolution,
that caused the language to
fade from use as small artisan
shops disappeared from the
landscape.

James

[Jim Koepke]

It might if being willing & able to produce products in metric sizes gives you an advantage selling to markets that use metric measurements, e.g. most of the world.

The closest I come to making anything that has a relationship to size is when I have turned a wooden scoop on my lathe. Most of the time they are purchased by Civil War re-enactors. Mostly mine are made to be the size of a cup or a fraction of a cup.

Maybe 'metric' birdhouses would be scooped up by visitors from Canada.

jtk

[Curt Harms]

The closest I come to making anything that has a relationship to size is when I have turned a wooden scoop on my lathe. Most of the time they are purchased by Civil War re-enactors. Mostly mine are made to be the size of a cup or a fraction of a cup.

Maybe 'metric' birdhouses would be scooped up by visitors from Canada.

jtk

In cases like those, does it matter what system of measure was used? Or if a system of measure was used at all? Measuring units only matter when one thing has to fit with another or quantity for sale. How many people can tell by eye the difference between 3/4" ply and 18 mm ply? Or between unlabelled 2 liter bottles and 2 quart bottles?

[Jim Koepke]

In cases like those, does it matter what system of measure was used? Or if a system of measure was used at all? Measuring units only matter when one thing has to fit with another or quantity for sale. How many people can tell by eye the difference between 3/4" ply and 18 mm ply? Or between unlabelled 2 liter bottles and 2 quart bottles?

What does it matter was sort of the theme of one of my earlier posts in this thread.

As far as a lathe turned wooden scoop, it seems to impress folks a bit that it is actually made to a known size instead of a random sized scoop."

At the farmers market where my wares are sold, the people are quite comfortable with measurements in inches. Most of the time measurements are not even an issue.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

There is now a NEW system! Just heard a tech reporter on TV describe the new Samsung phone as "1.3 Pop Tarts long".

[Curt Harms]

I read this post on a UK site and thought of this thread:D



Gary mis-heard the address and instead went to the bank's branch in the town of Otley, about 15 kilometres away and a half-hour's drive when the traffic is kind.

I'm from around here and I can promise you no-one travels anywhere using one of those fancy modern fangled kilometre things. (Especially now we've left Europe), infact I'm not even sure most folk know what one is.

We travel to our underground places of gainful excavation in Gods own miles.

And nowt else.

[Barry McFadden]

As I'm sure you all know, Canada switched to the metric system years ago...the thing that really bugs me is that you get the grocery flyers in the daily paper and you'll see the specials listed as $3.99 per pound or $4.25 per pound (chicken for example)and when you go to the store to find it, all the prices are listed in Kg's. So you have to try to figure out what chicken is actually the one that is on sale.

[Art Mann]

I doubt if that is an accident. ;)


As I'm sure you all know, Canada switched to the metric system years ago...the thing that really bugs me is that you get the grocery flyers in the daily paper and you'll see the specials listed as $3.99 per pound or $4.25 per pound (chicken for example)and when you go to the store to find it, all the prices are listed in Kg's. So you have to try to figure out what chicken is actually the one that is on sale.

[Curt Harms]

As I'm sure you all know, Canada switched to the metric system years ago...the thing that really bugs me is that you get the grocery flyers in the daily paper and you'll see the specials listed as $3.99 per pound or $4.25 per pound (chicken for example)and when you go to the store to find it, all the prices are listed in Kg's. So you have to try to figure out what chicken is actually the one that is on sale.

Sounds like a market for a smartphone app, if there isn't one already. And I wouldn't be surprised if Art is correct.

[David L Morse]

... $3.99 per pound ...

Was that $3.99 Canadian or US?

[Barry McFadden]

Was that $3.99 Canadian or US?


LOL..... Canadian...if it was US it would be about $12.00 /LB!!!!!(Canadian)

[William Adams]

One less reason to need to convert --- Fesstool is now making some tools available w/ Imperial scales:

http://blog.festoolusa.com/2016/06/20/festool-will-begin-offering-imperial-scale-tools/

[Wayne Lomman]

Yep, one more reason to avoid festoon. Cheers

[William Adams]

Not really. If one wishes, one can still get metric here in the U.S.

>Although the tools will only be sold in imperial, we will have options that will enable metric users to fit their tools with metric scales.

[Art Mann]

One more reason to avoid Tasmania?

[Wayne Lomman]

Art, Tasmania is great. Don't confuse a great place with a grumpy old bloke who doesn't like one particular tool ideology. Cheers