Square instead of tape measure - Advice needed

[Robby Tacheny]

I find that my accuracy with a tape measures is generally about +/- a 16th (or more) of an inch because inevitably I have sag, angling, unhooking, etc. Also, it is a constant annoyance to have the tape flopping around when trying to mark an irregular surface, like quarter round trim, especially when pieces are under 12 inches or less. I find that I do much more accurate work when I butt a combination square/steel rule to a board end/side and measure. It is also easier/faster to transfer measurements because I can slide the ruler and lock the measurement.

I'd like to find a something up to 24" - 36" with a stop, or some was to catch the end/side of a board. I have considered carpenters squares, t squares, or maybe even just a ruler on a tabletop with sliding stop. I have also looked at bigger combination squares, but they get pricey.

I really don't want all of the extra information included with many framing squares and I don't really need metric markings wither. I just want clear imperial markings down to a 16th and a positive stop at one end so that I can firmly hold the measuring device on a work piece or lay the measuring device on a table and move the work piece to a stop.

Keeping in mind that this is just for woodworking, what would you suggest? Also to be clear, I would like to keep the price low.

Robby

[pat warner]

The T-square sits a little proud for a rule to but up against.

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[Dan Hulbert]

My first thought was to make something. Think Marking gage with a stick-on tape. Set the tape zero to the end of the beam and omit the marking pin.
Another thought... Yard stick with a sliding stop, thumb screw to lock in place.
Both of the above are just gilded story sticks. Which would also work well.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have one of these and love it! I use it all the time. They also have 12" and 32" sizes available.

http://www.woodpeck.com/tsquare24.html

[Lonnie Gallaher]

What you are looking for is a hook ruler.

[Robby Tacheny]

I have one of these and love it! I use it all the time. They also have 12" and 32" sizes available.

http://www.woodpeck.com/tsquare24.html

That is a nice layout tool. Its a little pricey and I would cringe if it fell off the table. I could only justify that if someone else bought it for me. :p

However, the woodworking rules with hooks and story sticks are almost exactly what I am looking for. Thanks!

Robby

[Stew Hagerty]

That is a nice layout tool. Its a little pricey and I would cringe if it fell off the table. I could only justify that if someone else bought it for me. :p

However, the woodworking rules with hooks and story sticks are almost exactly what I am looking for. Thanks!

Robby

No problem. I have quite a lot of Woodpeckers Tools, a whole wall of red in fact. The biggest advantage to this over the rules & stops and the story sticks, which are also excellent, are the 1/8" spaced holes for exact measurements. BUt yes, they are a bit more pricey.

[Robby Tacheny]

The T-square sits a little proud for a rule to but up against.

Pat - Where did you get that ruler? I'd love to have simple one like that for layout also.

Robby

[Glenn de Souza]

If this is mainly for accurate measurements, I too think you're seeking a hook rule more than a t-square. You can make your own and see if you like it. Get a 24"-36" flexible steel rule. You can get them cheap for $10-$15 from Harry J. Epstein company, or maybe an art store. You don't have to get a super duper expensive Starrett or Mitutoyo rule since you want to keep cost down.

Then mill/cut a strip of wood or even MDF to the width and thickness you like. I would make it the same width as the ruler, but there would be nothing wrong with making it a little narrower so the ruler overhangs a little giving you another plane of registration for moldings and such.
Tack/glue a stop on one end. Hot glue or epoxy the ruler to the stick, butting it right up to the stop. There you have it. You could use spray adhesive or double stick tape for attachment also. You could skip the steel rule and get an adhesive backed tape measure like they sell on Amazon for $5-$6 (I think Starrett makes them, and you probably have one on your table saw fence).

If you find yourself reaching for your hook rule a lot, you can make them in various lengths.

[Rod Sheridan]

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=72020&cat=1,43513

The 18" hook ruler is the one I have.................Rod.

[Randy Viellenave]

I have a Home Cheapo 6 ft straight edge that I clamp to the workbench then I clamp a stop to the measurement or the end depending on what I need. When I am done, I just remove it and I have full use of the bench again.

[Robby Tacheny]

Rod - Thanks. That looks like a very solid option also.

Rod and Stew - Your Avatar pictures look like bio pictures out of Fine Woodworking! Very professional looking!

Robby

[pat warner]

"Pat - Where did you get that ruler? I'd love to have simple one like that for layout also. Robby "
************************************************** ***
Rule = Starrett in decimal inches. 6" x C606R, where ever they sell Starrett = Expensive.

[glenn bradley]

My accuracy made a leap when I picked up a set of steel rules. Woodcraft and Lee Valley both carry them. I have 6, 12, 18, 24 and 36". I have a couple of Garret Wade's ruler stops (http://www.garrettwade.com/rule-stop.html) which are light and low profile. Others make these in one form or another as well. I also have a set of hook rules that I got for Christmas that are very nice. I find I rarely use them preferring the ruler stops for no particular reason; maybe just habit.

[Roy Harding]

There are other makes and styles, but one of these may be what you're looking for:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=53825&cat=1,43513
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=67290&cat=1,43513


I have the Czeck edge one and use it on shop made story sticks for machine set ups, as well as with a ruler for precise marking.

[Stew Hagerty]

Rod and Stew - Your Avatar pictures look like bio pictures out of Fine Woodworking! Very professional looking!

Robby

Thanks Robby, I just propped my phone up and used the delay feature so I had time to get positioned. I must have taken 25 pictures before I got one where I wasn't still moving or where I had some dorky look on my face. Of course there are folks who'd tell you I ALWAYS look like a dork.

[Larry Frank]

I have the Fastcap flat back tape measure and found it to be very accurate.

For anything where I need to make repeat measures, I will make a story pole or a small jig to make certain everything is the same.

[Keith Hankins]

I'm late to this, but as others have said if you don't want the tape measure, then the woodpecker saddle squares or starrett. Ya get what ya pay for but on the bright side you only buy good tools once.

[John Stankus]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Incra t-rule. Which is available in 6, 12, and 18 inch lengths. Very easy to be accurate
I also use a 24 inch metal ruler I picked up from an office supply store(I think)

John

[Robby Tacheny]

I'm late to this, but as others have said if you don't want the tape measure, then the woodpecker saddle squares or starrett

For so many tasks a tape measure is indispensable. I'll still be using a tape measure, but where accuracy counts I would like to have some good longer steel rules with stops.

For now I think I am really leaning toward to the 18" hook rule from Lee Valley as it meets pretty much all of my requirements in functionality and price. I am going to keep the Woodpecker stuff on my radar and maybe put the T-Square on my gift list.

Robby

[Robert Engel]

I have one of these and love it! I use it all the time. They also have 12" and 32" sizes available.

http://www.woodpeck.com/tsquare24.html$115 for a square. Wow.

[John Lankers]

[QUOTE=John Stankus;2579372]I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Incra t-rule. Which is available in 6, 12, and 18 inch lengths. Very easy to be accurate

X2

[Robby Tacheny]

Maybe its just getting used to it. . . but the T-Rule seems very "busy" and I am worried I would misread it. Sometimes too many little ticks (and holes in this case) blend together.

Again, maybe its just a new way of thinking and double/triple checking.

Robby

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod - Thanks. That looks like a very solid option also.

Rod and Stew - Your Avatar pictures look like bio pictures out of Fine Woodworking! Very professional looking!

Robby

Robby, I don't know about Fine Woodworking, here's my shop cat from that group of photographs.

Sir Ellington Snodgrass III.............................Shop cat extraordinaire.................Regards, Rod.

[Stew Hagerty]

$115 for a square. Wow.

Come on Robert... it's not JUST a square. Yes all Woodpeckers Tools are pricey, but so are pretty much all high end tools. Look at how much in love with Festool so many people are. And yet, their stuff often runs 50%+ more than other similar tools.
Woodpeckers T-Squares are long, and very accurate. They have holes sized for a .7mm mechanic pencil every 1/16". The "T" portion has lips that hook over the face of the Lumber or plywood so that you are assured it is laying flat. It has 1"OC holes for marking shelf pin locations. It is accurate to .001", and carries a lifetime warranty.

[Stew Hagerty]

Rod and Stew - Your Avatar pictures look like bio pictures out of Fine Woodworking! Very professional looking!

Robby

Here is me & my shop. Plus you can see some of Woodpeckers Tools behind me.

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[lowell holmes]

I have several accurate ss rules. If I have to be dead on accurate, I use two paint sticks and two binder clips for a story pole.
If paint sticks are not long enough, use yard sticks.

As far as that goes, two ss rules clipped together work also.

[Robby Tacheny]

Stew. You're not kidding about a lot of red on your wall! Also the the tape measure suspenders are a nice touch too.

Lowell - I agree when anything needs repeated measurements I make a jig for it.

My quest for more accuracy started because I used 1/16" aluminium angle to trim out my tile backsplash. There is no caulking and painting with aluminum so accuracy was important, and it took me WAY longer than it should have because I couldn't easily transfer measurements. When I started using my combination square rulers for the small increments, that's when things started improving dramatically.

Robby

[Bradley Gray]

For 40 years I've carried a hooked folding rule in my back pocket.

Accurate and always at hand.

Just don't walk around with out re-folding it.

[glenn bradley]

Maybe its just getting used to it. . . but the T-Rule seems very "busy" and I am worried I would misread it. Sometimes too many little ticks (and holes in this case) blend together.

Again, maybe its just a new way of thinking and double/triple checking.

Robby

I've had the 6" for years and it can be a bit fussy. For it's intended use as a marking and layout tool it is exceptional. As a general measuring device a simple pocket rule is quicker an easier. Speaking of which, even though I have good steel rule sets, I still have 3 or 4 of these (http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=32566&cat=1,43513) at various spots around the shop; stuck to the bandsaw and near the tablesaw with a magnet, on the drill press and at the bench.

[Art Mann]

Here is me & my shop. Plus you can see some of Woodpeckers Tools behind me.

339949 339950

I don't know about the Woodpecker tools but those suspenders in the first picture are really something special.

[mreza Salav]

For marking I often use one of these (very handy):
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=58877&cat=1,43513,58883

I also have 6", 12", 24", 48" rules that I use for marking/measuring up to these sizes. Tape measure is used for things beyond 4'.

[Stew Hagerty]

Speaking of Lee Valley... I have 3 of their Precision Pocket Squares, including one that is always in my apron pocket. They have all of the advantages of a 6" rule,along with those of a hook rule, not to mention a square.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=66573&cat=1,42936

[lowell holmes]

For longer distances, a drywall square works, for the work bench a combination square works for me.

[Greg Hines, MD]

I would come to the defense of Woodpeckers. I have several of their one-time tools, as well as numerous other examples of their layout tools. They are excellently made, and I think worth the extra cost. They also have some very clever tools that nobody else have made.

Doc.

[Chris Parks]

I've had the 6" for years and it can be a bit fussy. For it's intended use as a marking and layout tool it is exceptional. As a general measuring device a simple pocket rule is quicker an easier.

That is exactly my experience also. I would recommend one of these to anyone as it gives exactly repeatable precision in use. I have one of Incra's flexible rules and never use it except to set dividers because as a visual measuring rule it does not work for me.

[Stew Hagerty]

I would come to the defense of Woodpeckers. I have several of their one-time tools, as well as numerous other examples of their layout tools. They are excellently made, and I think worth the extra cost. They also have some very clever tools that nobody else have made.

Doc.

I couldn't agree more Greg.

[Tom Hammond]

http://www.lufkintool.com/rules/folding/lufkin-966n-6-x-5-8-two-wayr-wood-rule-red-endr.html

I've used these for 50 years. First time people see them, they say "What the...?... is that?" in a derogatory way. But, they are dead on and easy to use. Once you get in the habit of using them, you'll only use a tape for long lengths.

[Nick Nelson]

What tape measure are you using?

[Robby Tacheny]

I was using an older Stanley tape metal body tape measure. It actually recently broke. After getting a new one I realize the hook on the end of the tape may have had the slots open up over time. The new one has less play, so that could have been a small part of my issue.

Ultimately I am sure it was just as much me as the tape, but I did make less errors when using combination square.

Robby

[Ed Aumiller]

Agree with Tom Hammond (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/member.php?56827-Tom-Hammond)

[Ben Rivel]

I use the Woodpeckers T square in a 24" size mentioned earlier along with the Woodpeckers 1" rule stop on my Starrett ruler blades which I have up to 24". Both work great and both will last multiple lifetimes with how well I take care of my tools!

[Allan Speers]

I have one of these and love it! I use it all the time. They also have 12" and 32" sizes available.

http://www.woodpeck.com/tsquare24.html

I have 2 of these, 12" and 24", and love them. If I was buying again, I'd get 12" and 32". I sometimes wish the "T" part was a little wider (more like a square) but that's being really picky. Also note: I find it easier to use a sharpened pencil rather than their mechanical pencil, as the latter (even at 9mm) tends to break when used in those little holes. A regular pencil is more robust.

I wanted to have a 6" as well, for carrying around, so I got their 6"saddle square, which serves both functions really well:
http://www.woodpeck.com/sdltsqr.html#3127

You could also get one of these, with a ruler attached:
http://www.woodpeck.com/hookstop.html

---------------

The problem with most Woodpeckers stuff is, you can't just order them. You have to wait (sometimes years) for the next run, which is simply absurd. Alternately, you can sometimes find them on Ebay.

[Allan Speers]

[QUOTE=John Stankus;2579372]I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Incra t-rule. Which is available in 6, 12, and 18 inch lengths. Very easy to be accurate

X2

I hate those things ! I had two of them, and promptly sold them off. (replaced with Woodpeckers).

The problem is it's very hard to read them or find your mark quickly. It's a dull, dark color withou much contrast, and waaaay too many little holes. I can't imagine ever needing to measure to 1/32", let alone 1/64".

Also, they are extremely flexible. Maybe that's an advantage for some odd situation, but not in my shop.

[Stew Hagerty]

I have 2 of these, 12" and 24", and love them. If I was buying again, I'd get 12" and 32". I sometimes wish the "T" part was a little wider (more like a square) but that's being really picky. Also note: I find it easier to use a sharpened pencil rather than their mechanical pencil, as the latter (even at 9mm) tends to break when used in those little holes. A regular pencil is more robust.

I wanted to have a 6" as well, for carrying around, so I got their 6"saddle square, which serves both functions really well:
http://www.woodpeck.com/sdltsqr.html#3127

You could also get one of these, with a ruler attached:
http://www.woodpeck.com/hookstop.html

---------------

The problem with most Woodpeckers stuff is, you can't just order them. You have to wait (sometimes years) for the next run, which is simply absurd. Alternately, you can sometimes find them on Ebay.

I often use a sharp pencil as well. I have the saddle square in the 12" size, and this in the 6" size: http://www.woodpeck.com/ott1pctsqare.html

My 50" Rule came with a Rulestop installed: http://www.woodpeck.com/rule50.html

But then I also have one of these that I can use with any of my 3 Rules (6", 12", 24"): http://www.woodpeck.com/rule50.html

My favorite Rules though are the Paolini Rules. I have the 6" & 18" Pocket Rules and a 24" Bench Rule: http://www.woodpeck.com/ottpaolini2013.html & http://www.woodpeck.com/ottbenchrule2013.html

[Prashun Patel]

I agree with Alan re: the Incra t-rule. I'm increasingly using marking knives; that device works best with sharp or mechanical pencils. It's also flimsy and doesn't store elegantly. I find it as non-intuitive to read as Alan does. It has usual Incra high precision, but for a ruler, it's too Incra-esque (read, over-complicated) for my use. I thought I could use it to slide along board faces to scribe lines, but it's not ergonomic enough to use one-handed as one would use a marking gauge.

I bought a couple cheap Starrett 9" K-53 squares and a couple Starrett ASE36 36" rulers. These are FANTASTIC for me as replacements *for a tape measure*. The markings are clear and I've gotten used to squares with raised fences for better registration. Best of all, they are cheap, so you can get a few if you're prone to misplacing measuring devices... (hey what's that under my sofa?)