Shouldn't this be dead flat?

[Brian Sommers]

I got my Bosch GCM12SD gliding miter saw and my table doesn’t seem straight/flat.
Is there anything I can do about this? And won’t this throw my end cut off from 90 degrees?
see here: https://youtu.be/Doeo9ArCULY

[George Bokros]

If this is a new saw I would contact Bosch for resolution. I would say it could throw your cuts off from 90 degrees.

[Andrew Hughes]

Brian I just checked my Bosch glide it's 3or4 years old and it's not dead flat.My high spot is at the widest part of the round table.
The inset that came with my saw was never flush with the top and I have a wooden insert.
Getting good square cuts do depends on me to pull or push the handle straight and consistent.
I also have the best chop saw blade money can buy Forrest chop master.
Hope this helps good luck.

Aj

[Wayne Lomman]

Brian, I agree with George. My eldest son bought a Bosch here in Tasmania and they couldn't offer a solution so he exchanged it for another brand. Cheers

[Greg R Bradley]

I went through three with that problem when they were first introduced deciding to pass on one even at $489. This was when they were first introduced and I assumed they finally solved the issues.

[peter gagliardi]

Welcome to the world of no quality control. I don't own a Bosch for a similar reason, both sides of the fence were milled offset from one another, and not square to table. To be fair, Bosch did take it back, and refund my money which I reinvested in another brand.

[Robert Engel]

Wow, I was quite shocked to see this. My first thought was it must be designed into the saw. I check my DW miter saw and the entire deck is perfectly flat.

My thinking is they assume you are using infeed/outfeed supports or have the saw installed in a bench so by making the wings slightly lower the material won't hang when sliding into position for a cut. Any material 16" or less you will be holding down on the main part of the table.

I still don't like it.

If it were me, I'd be on the phone to Bosch.

[Greg R Bradley]

The table is low so the opposite issue that Robert was mentioning. If you assume the wing is flat and perpendicular to the blade, then the work would be unsupported at the cut if you keep it level. Guess how well that works to make a smooth cut.
BTW, this is the same issue that a friend had with his new Makita xx16 saws, which is why he paid me more than that for my used 1214, where the entire table is one piece so it can't have this problem. It basically had a large table and no wings.

[Andrew Hughes]

Oh darn now I feel like I've been using a defective saw. All my cuts could have been better.
At least now I can blame all my bad crown molding cuts on the saw.:D

[glenn bradley]

As mentioned, you will need to compensate for that on every cut. For a tool in that price range I would not want to do that. Chop saws are great for decent cuts in a portable package. Laptops are great, lightweight and portable but, this benefit comes at a cost in money and loss of full-sized features. I don't know what kind of work you are doing but, an SCMS is not inexpensive and I would make sure that a portable job-site tool is the right choice. If you are doing a lot of cuts on long, thin stock the SCMS is the right tool type. The particular one you show in the video is not however.

[Eric Schmid]

I would be interested in determining the plane of the entire table; miter carriage and wings, not just one side. It may simply be that the carriage is out of alignment with the wings; tilted left to right. You may be able to bring it into alignment, but you'll likely have to loosen the center bolt in the carriage and possibly separate the carriage from the table.

If it's a new saw, I would let Bosch figure it out.

[johnny means]

Just get one of these. Pretty sure it'll be flat and square.

http://hoffmann-usa.com/machinery/omga-production-miter-saws/omga-t-53-370-precision-miter-saw

[Roy Harding]

Just get one of these. Pretty sure it'll be flat and square.

http://hoffmann-usa.com/machinery/omga-production-miter-saws/omga-t-53-370-precision-miter-saw

Nice machine. Probably not a realistic solution for the average hobbyist woodworker.

[Brian Sommers]

Well I took it in to my local Bosch service center.
What was funny/sad was that I went out to the floor where they had the exact same model and it was the same way. In fact I checked lots of miter saws they had and all of them weren't flat.
They guy helping me didn't know what to say when I showed him their brand new model was off as well.
They took it and said the guy who normally looks at that kind of thing won't be in until Monday. So....
I would love to have my $600 back if I could. But I certainly can't afford a $5000 saw!

I want to make small fine furniture, dresser side tables, etc, boxes, frames. I've tried making 4 crosscut sleds for my TS and for some reason can't get them close enough to where I need them.

It is dead straight when I stretch the bar across to the other side, but all that tells me is that the high on that side evens out the high on the left side. I checked the right side as well and it to rocks back and fourth.
It appears to me, that the wings are lower, so maybe my solution would be to build an extension and match it with the inner round bed. That actually might work, why wouldn't it? I believe someone mentioned that.

[Sean Tracey]

Brian I just checked my Bosch glide it's 3or4 years old and it's not dead flat.My high spot is at the widest part of the round table.
The inset that came with my saw was never flush with the top and I have a wooden insert.
Getting good square cuts do depends on me to pull or push the handle straight and consistent.
I also have the best chop saw blade money can buy Forrest chop master.
Hope this helps good luck.

Aj

If I understand this correctly, wouldn't an insert that stands proud of the rotating table but level with the wing tables solve the problem?

Not saying a new saw should be that way, but if you want a 4 year old saw to work, well there's a way.

[Sean Tracey]

Well I took it in to my local Bosch service center.
What was funny/sad was that I went out to the floor where they had the exact same model and it was the same way. In fact I checked lots of miter saws they had and all of them weren't flat.
They guy helping me didn't know what to say when I showed him their brand new model was off as well.
They took it and said the guy who normally looks at that kind of thing won't be in until Monday. So....
I would love to have my $600 back if I could. But I certainly can't afford a $5000 saw!

I want to make small fine furniture, dresser side tables, etc, boxes, frames. I've tried making 4 crosscut sleds for my TS and for some reason can't get them close enough to where I need them.

It is dead straight when I stretch the bar across to the other side, but all that tells me is that the high on that side evens out the high on the left side. I checked the right side as well and it to rocks back and fourth.
It appears to me, that the wings are lower, so maybe my solution would be to build an extension and match it with the inner round bed. That actually might work, why wouldn't it? I believe someone mentioned that.

Hmm. You should be able to get that table saw sled dead nuts and probably better than a SCMS. Even a well made SCMS will need some fine tuning to produce good cuts. Being able to set up tools is the first step to being able to get the results you need from them. This step can't be skipped. I hear a lot of frustration that tools don't arrive dialed in and I understand the psychology that a factory produced tool ought to be dialed in, but the reality is that tool set-up is a skill that a woodworker must have just as he must be able to sharpen tools.

I personally think the rotating table should be closer to level with the wing tables. However, if I understand the problem correctly, you may be able to fix the problem by shimming the insert up or making one that will be level with the two wings. I haven't seen your video on the computer, just my little cell phone screen, so it was kind of hard to tell what was going on.

I finally got to see the video on a computer screen. Have you tried placing the straight edge so that it rests on both wing tables and bridges the cut insert? If the straight edge touches both wing tables and is slightly proud of the cutting insert, then shimming the cutting insert may solve the problem.

[Brian Sommers]

It's at the service center now, so I really won't have any info until Mon. or Tues.

[Sean Tracey]

It might be possible for the service center to take the saw apart and shim the entire table up. I hope they are able to fix the problem. The glide mechanism seems nice and being able to put the saw against the wall is something I wish my Bosch slider could do.

[Martin Wasner]

Nice machine. Probably not a realistic solution for the average hobbyist woodworker.

I just bought a 12" for $500, it's in phenomenal condition.

I paid $240 for the other I bought used.

[Roger Feeley]

Brian, I was an early adopter for the Bosch Glide and had a somewhat similar experience. Below is the text from my Amazon review. Overall, my experience with Bosch was stellar. In my view, the problem was with their packaging for shipping. In the end, I wound up abandoning the Glide and (get this) my wife bought me a Sawstop ICS.


I have a 12" Dewalt DW703 that has served me well. I put a furniture grade blade on it and when it's sharp, I don't have to sand the cuts much at all. I wanted something that would cut wider pieces of material and I also wanted something for dados. I really hate my table saw dado insert. I never made a zero clearance insert for dados and that big hole just scares me. My lovely bride of almost 35 years bought me this saw for my birthday. I am one lucky guy.

The saw seems rock solid. The things I noticed that are different from the Dewalt.

1. As just about everyone notices, the glide is very loose. Bosch put an adjustment to add some resistance but I haven't done it yet.
2. It's not a soft start motor so there is a kick that I didn't get with the non-sliding Dewalt. It's just a thing.
3. One thing I didn't expect but should have is that the blade doesn't bury itself as deeply. The Dewalt, to get maximum cut width, went way down. The bed on this saw is about a half inch lower than the Dewalt. Again, just a thing but I was cutting some Baltic Birch plywood and I had some tearout on top. I don't think I would have had that with the Dewalt.
4. The handle seems higher than the Dewalt. I wound up rebuilding my stand and shortening it by 2" so it wouldn't be awkward. Part of the awkwardness comes from the safety (see item 1 below)

A couple of negatives (maybe)
1. There is a thumb safety release that I didn't have with the Dewalt. It's pretty stiff and I haven't quite got the hang of it.
2. The saw is very awkward to carry. The way the weight is distributed on the saw and where you are supposed to grab it make for a difficult lift. On the positive side of that, Bosch put in some locking pins that are easy to find and engage.
3. I am used to a zero-clearance insert on the Dewalt. It was a solid piece of plastic that I installed and then cut. Bosch has two pieces of plastic that can adjust inwards but they don't make for true zero clearance. I haven't figured out whether I care about that or not given item 3 above. It may be that I need zero clearance along the back more than the bottom. It could be that I never needed it at all.

I should mention that I am a hobby woodworker and that this saw won't travel.

Now I have to figure out what to do with the Dewalt.

Update:

1. The saw may be soft start. I was using it this morning and that's how it's behaving now. I did change blades but I can't imagine that having anything to do with a change in behavior. I started a support case with Bosch.
2. The table on my saw is not flat. The center is low by .029" which seems excessive to me. I have started a support case with Bosch.

Update:
Bosch told me to take the saw in for repair. They said that the saw isn't repairable but I could save shipping that way. The repair people tell me that the process will take about 3 weeks. I am waffling about what to do. The box is long gone so shipping back to Amazon would be a hassle.

Update:
Sadly, this saw is going back to Amazon. Customer service was great to deal with. I told them that the saw is defective according to Bosch tech support. The representitive I had was unfamiliar with woodworking tools so I dictated the reason for her as she typed and she was very appreciative that she didn't have to do that herself. I was informed that a shipper would come to my house to pick up the saw. I told them that the original shipping container is long gone and they said that wasn't a problem. Too bad about the saw but Amazon customer service gets 5 stars.

I will still buy the saw but I will be going to my local Woodcraft where I can see and touch the thing. I would have gone for a replacement with Amazon but I didn't want to get another bad saw and go through the whole process again. I thought it best to go brick and morter for this item.

Update:
I'm happy to report that everyone involved couldn't have been better.

Amazon offered to replace the saw or give me a refund. They offered to pay for return shipping even though I didn't have the original packaging. Because the saw is heavy, they scheduled a pickup with a trucking company. Amazon said I didn't even have to box the saw. The trucking company wanted me to box it in something...anything.

My experience with Bosch was better yet. I approached it from two directions: a support phone call and an email. The phone support guy told me that the saw was out of spec and was not repairable. He said I could return it to Amazon for refund or take it in to a local repair place where they would determine what was wrong (everything) and take care of me. They also said I could ship the saw back to them at my expense. That's about the best I could expect from a frontline support guy.

Meanwhile, the email folks were evaluating my case.

I consulted with my local retailer and they gave me the name of the Bosch Rep for Kansas/Missouri. I called him. I was trying to decide whether to go for a replacement or refund and then buy the saw locally. We have a couple of woodworking shows soon and I thought I might show up with my straightedge and get the pick of the litter. He expressed a lot of interest in my saw and talked with his techs who were more interested yet. They offered to order in several saws, pick the best and ship that one to me. Then I would use the box and ship mine to the techs for analysis. They would pay shipping. That sounded good to me so I accepted their offer. After all, I do like the saw, I just want one that's right.

Meanwhile, the email support folks got back to me. They wanted to ship me a new saw and have me ship mine back at their expense. It seems that their techs wanted to see my saw. That would make two genuine expressions of interest in what happened to my saw.

I have to say that one offer from Bosch might just be anomalous curiosity by a single person. Two such offers suggest a corporate culture.

I will update again in a week or so when I have more to report.

Update:

Bosch sent another saw in a prototype improved package. Basically, there was a box around the box with foam inserts between. The gaps in saw #2 were just about identical to saw#1. I contacted Bosch. It just so happened that the Woodworking Show was in town last weekend and my Bosch guy was working the show. Last Friday morning before the show opened he and another Bosch tech came by and did their own measurements. They got roughly the same results I did. It was nice to have a pro verify my measurements. I wasn't at all indignant. They offered to try again and had even brought another base with them. I said I was going to give up and send the saw back. Bosch offered to buy the saw and pay shipping. So the saw is gone and I have been promised a check in a couple of weeks.

[start opinion]
I am still convinced that this saw is top quality. Assuming I get the check, I have no complaints about how Bosch handled the situation. I have no complaints about Amazon.

Based on my experience with these two saws, I am still convinced that this is fine saw. If it were shipped upright on a pallet with other saws and handled correctly in shipment, I think it would be very accurate. However, I don't think the packaging is adequate for single shipping to my house. This is an 88 lb saw and most of the weight is not in the base. When that saw is dropped, all of that force comes down on the four feet and exerts a bending moment that would take a lot of aluminum to overcome.

If you are interested in the saw, buy it locally or go get it. Don't have it shipped to you.

[John TenEyck]

My Bosch DCMS has a dished table, too, just like you describe. Every one I've ever seen is like that. The solution for me was to just add a piece of 1/2" plywood over the table and wings. Problem solved. There are other ways to fix it but this was fast and foolproof. It also gives you a true ZCI and you can change it by just sliding the plywood left or right. Replace as needed.

I think Sean's post is spot on, too. People expect machines to arrive in perfect working order. They almost never do. I'm not saying Bosch miter saws shouldn't have a flat table, they should, but the point is you have to accept that the best most tools will ever cut is only after you tune them to do so. This can sometimes be a real challenge for inexperienced woodworkers, but it's part of the learning process, and another reason to find a couple of experienced woodworkers to befriend and learn from.

John

[Brian Sommers]

Roger I read your review yesterday.

I like the idea of extending a 1/2 ply across the whole table. That would work and I may have to do just that.
I called the center where I took it too and they said they will look at it this afternoon and I should hear back either later today or tomorrow.

[Adam Herman]

This is one reason i do like my ridgid, the huge table and no wings. I do need to figure out a better 0 clearence for it though.

[glenn bradley]

This is one reason i do like my ridgid, the huge table and no wings. I do need to figure out a better 0 clearence for it though.

I used the original on my DeWalt as a template and made some out of hardboard.

339918

Turns out I rarely use a CMS so I have about 6 unused ;-))

[Brian Sommers]

I just got the call back. They called the Bosch people and they said it was "designed that way"
I told them to return it.
they will give me store credit of the full amount.

Now, which one to replace it.
Interesting notes with the guy I talked to:
1. he said, he likes to use a 10" one for better accuracy than a 12"
2. He recommends the Hitachi C10FSH

He checked the table and that is dead flat. I'm coming in this sat. morning and will get another saw.
he said that they carry the full line of parts for the hitachis

so...

[Eric Schmid]

Did they give any indication as to why it would be designed that way? Just curious. I could see setting the insert a few thousandths below to prevent it from interfering. The carousel could even be slightly below the wings without causing issues on all but very short stock, but you said the wings were lower?

I couldn't tell from your video, but it did look like the high points are the wings. This seems to be confirmed by your statement that the wings are co-planar. I'm assuming the straight edge floats over the carousel? Lower wings seems like it would make the saw fairly useless.

I picked up a third miter saw last year. I looked at all the major brands including Festool. I should have bought the Festool, but couldn't see past the price. It just seemed indulgent until I spent 8+ hours setting up the Makita I bought (10" slider). Functionally they do the same thing and the Makita is plenty accurate once set up. Very smooth running saw. The three piece fence is a joke, but I worked around that with an MDF sub fence. Oh, and the table is flat.

I can live with the one time set up hassle, but every time this thing throws sawdust in my face I question my frugality! A Festool CT is no match for the poorly designed dust chute on the Makita slider.

One thing that I found is that all of the manufacturers have good saws and all of them have less than perfect saws. I checked tables and fences, slides and finish on all the major saws; except maybe the Bosch table because I don't recall the dished tables.

My advise is pick a saw that feels good to you and be prepared to make some adjustments. I find it much easier to adjust for square independently of straightening out a fence. Dewalt and Festool's saws adjust square to the blade by moving the detent plate. Makita and maybe Bosch require moving the fence. Not sure about Hitachi.

[Greg R Bradley]

Well "designed that way" may be an over-simplification. I think it is horrible quality control combined with a a low table being terrible but a high table being even worse. I think the saw is selling to people that really like the innovative mechanism. Some of those buyers are really upset when they realize what they gave up to get that. A few, very few, that were lucky and got one where the tolerances lined up well are pretty happy. The rest are using it for its intended purpose, which is a general carpentry saw that doesn't move around easily. Most people that expect it to be a fine finish saw are going to be very disappointed but a few will not.
I think the OP is looking to solve a problem in the wrong way. A table saw and sled is far more accurate than any slider and a bit more accurate than the best non-sliders.

[Eric Schmid]

A miter saw can be as accurate as a sled on a table saw, at least in theory. My table saw sled fence is set within .002 as are my miter saw fences. It's a lot easier to get a sled within those tolerances than it is to get a miter saw there. Of course, this all assumes that the machines themselves are capable of being operated to these tolerances. I am certain I can deflect any of my miter saw heads by that much and one of them is an old cast iron beast that only miters (no bevel). As you say, the table saw sled is a more reliable tool for joinery...if that saw is built to the same tolerances as a quality cabinet saw. If Brian is using a job site saw or modern contractor saw...all bets are off. I've never bothered to try a traditional sled on my jobsite saws, but I am fairly sure the miter slots are not consistent width down their length let alone parallel to one another; same quality control issues afflicting the miter saw market. I've built simple sleds for on site work, but I wouldn't try to make fine furniture with them.

[Roger Feeley]

I got the refund from Bosch. This was several years ago and I'm amazed that they are still having problems. I have some Bosch stuff and it's all great. What is it about this product that Bosch can't seem to get right???

[johnny means]

You people do realize that miter saws are construction tools. Expecting them to be produced to the same standards as shop machinery costing 10 times as much is a little unrealistic. Heck, a precision square is $200.