It's time to replace my integrated amplifier and turntable.

[Roger Nair]

So my old Onkyo amp and technics turntable are losing their grip on good sounds. I'm afraid there is internal problems with both and that's to be expected since they are both in their mid thirties. I've done the obvious maintenance of cleaning terminal connections and pots. The clarity in sound has been suffering, for example, when music gets fast and builds to a crescendo the sound gets fuzzy, raspy and sometimes honky. The cartridge is about a year old and is in seeming good shape. Perhaps the phono stage pre amp has problems or the filter capacitors in the amp are failing. Considering the age, repair might exceed worth. So I would like an integrated amp complete with DAC in order to get with the new generation of music transmission. I am not an audiophile in pursuit of perfection, I'll make a purchase and live with the lesser but quality is important. I am considering amps from Yamaha, Onkyo and with the high end limit set at Parasound. Anyone have any thoughts on high end consumer level audio?

The turntable purchase and cartridge will likely be made after the amp, but will scale with the amp.

I have gamed a purchasing strategy of separate pre amp, amp and DAC but prices escalate into audiophile madness and uncertainty.

[Allan Speers]

Try replacing all the electrolytics caps.
(Assuming you know how to safely work inside the chassis, bleed the large caps first, etc.)

That will go a LOOOONG way towards bringing your sound back.

Nothing esoteric needed. Use something like Panasonic FM, if available in the right sizes. You could also replace some of the very small electro's with modern film caps, for a "better than new" result.

Also look for any obviously burnt resistors while you're at it.

Other improvements are possible without much effort, but this isn't the correct forum for that.

[Roger Nair]

Thanks Allan, I'll have to read up on stereo repair before I could order the right parts. I am able to solder but I do not have any test gear other than volt, ohm and amp meter geared for house wiring. Your repair suggestion might be possible after I replace the amp, so I could gain a quality secondary system.

[James Baker SD]

how old are your speakers? When my sound deteriorated, I first suspected the electronics, but sound through headphones was still pretty good. Eventually got around to checking the speakers and the cones had all rotted and that the ultimate problem. New speakers got me back to what I wanted with the same electronics. That said, individual solid state components do age and die like everything else, especially those that run hot (switch a lot of power).

[Matt Meiser]

I had a bad experience with Integra which is Onkyo's high-end sibling. The HDMI board got flaky, and reading on the internet its very common. Onkyo wouldn't even acknowledge the problem and redesign the board, much less take care of customers on the issue which came up less than a month or two out of warranty. I replaced it with a Denon that was a considerable step down price wise but I really can't tell the difference and it had all the features we wanted.

We also had an issue with our Paradigm center channel speaker. Thing is practically new...I mean I purchased it right after college (20 yeas ago :eek:) Ours was the foam surround rotting out. I bought a kit to repair which was pretty easy to do and sounds no different to my ear.

[Roger Nair]

James, the speakers are Polk floor standing about 1.5 years old and the CD player is a Yamaha 6 months old. The conditions are especially worse through the phono stage, with the phono pre amp in the amp. To a lesser extent CD playback presents the same effects. Additionally the midrange seems weak almost absent at times. I am certain the amp stage and phono pre amp have aged out at around 35 years. I have received more than fair value. So I have been on a upgrade/replacement path that will continue over the next year.

I am seeking opinions on integrated amps. I have a fall back receiver, a Pioneer sx 780, that to my ears is a decidedly warm and fuzzy by design but lacks the clarity of Onkyo, in good order.

I guess you could think I have fallen into the upgrade trap. When I bought the new speakers, they exposed the short comings of the system as individual parts and as the whole effect.

[Roger Nair]

Matt, bummer about Onkyo's customer treatment, that is not inspiring. It's great you could re-cone the speakers.

[Roger Nair]

After two weeks of dithering between new equipment options, I started to following regional craigslist and ebay listings. Nothing looked good on craigslist but ebay glittered with temptations. I eliminated Yamaha from consideration, mainly on the price consideration of what will I be willing to risk or loose on bum gear. Second, I read carefully the vendors descriptions and eliminated the guys who would state weaselly conditional descriptions of the article and terms of the deal. Anyhow I purchased an Onkyo M-501 amp and a Nad 1700 preamp. The amp arrived yesterday and I am very well satisfied at this point. When the preamp arrives, next week, I'll be able to give a proper review. If the scheme works, I'll be well under market prices for new equipment.

I am now faced with the problem of a standalone DAC, I'll be slow to make that purchase since a DAC is an adjunct to the preamp and I really want to feel the need for the DAC before buying and choosing.

[Eric DeSilva]

Does the pre-amp have a phono input? Seems line a lot of preamps these days are line only, but unless your turntable has a phono pre-amp built in, you aren't going to get good audio out of a standard line stage preamp input (e.g., tape in, line in, etc). The phono input includes a bias adjustment called the RIAA equalization curve--when they press LPs, they apply a bias based on certain frequencies translating better to the vinyl medium, so you need to apply a reverse bias during playback or it sounds wonky. The good news is that even if your preamp doesn't have a phono in, you can buy a fairly cheap phono pre-amp that converts to line in fairly cheap on Amazon.

There are a lot of good DACs out there for relatively cheap--especially 2nd hand. Back in the days when I cared, I bought a lot of gear off Audiogon, which is an audiophile site with a very active classified section and good peer rankings from sellers--I never bought a bum piece of gear from them. Seems audiophiles like to upgrade a lot and the initial depreciation hit is very, very substantial. Some good deals out there, especially on lesser known brands--I've got a Marsh balanced pre-amp and amp that I gave to my parents because I couldn't get anything near what they are worth from normal classifieds--hell, people were snapping up crappy mid-fi consumer brands for more than I could sell these for. So there's some good deals if you know where to look.

[Adam Herman]

the 1700 has a phono preamp built in.

NAD is good stuff.

i myself have an old b&o tt with seperate pre and an old h/k amp. a great, vintage analog setup.

[Roger Nair]

Thanks for the replies. NAD gear is well regarded for phono stage and design that avoids harsh harmonics. After all this is used gear and I'll have a period of getting acquainted. The NAD phono stage should be able to handle the output of the more common spec. moving magnet, moving iron and moving coil cartridges, the esoteric designs found in highend cartridges will not be my cup of tea.

Adam, by coincidence, I have a B&O RX2 turntable that is out of sorts. No signal gets through to the RCA connectors. I have a NOS cartridge MMC2. I am guessing that the fault is in an equalization circuit that matches output to the five different cartridges that B&O once produced for the tt. B&O has abandoned support for it's tt's, so cartridges can only be supplied through old stock or one company that hand builds moving iron replacements at a sky high price point. My crystal ball goes dark when I ask about the RX2.

Eric, thanks for the Audiogon tip. I'll be studying up on DACs and probably a good more recent tt.

[Kev Williams]

Ah, for the old days and loud music... I still have the good equipment (Carver, Dual, Dahlquist, Harmon Cardon, all bought in 1981) but the wife's migraines have kept it all in storage :(

[Adam Herman]

the rx2 is a beautiful table! I have an mmc 20e on my 1700. It works wonderfully but I do know they are hard to find and $250+ Newer/easier is tempting but the B&O stuff can not be beat for style.

[Roger Nair]

Adam, my current thinking on tts is to get probably a high quality manual used tt or demo or B stock new. I'll figure that out later. I followed Eric's suggestion and checked out Audiogon for a DAC, I was shocked by the prices that prevail in the audiophile world. It's like there is an audiophile exception to Moore's Law even at 30 years into digital sound with very wide market coverage, I just don't get it.

[Eric DeSilva]

The audiophile world is an excellent example of the law of diminishing returns--there are people there who built their houses around the acoustics needed for their stereos and six figure stereos are pretty common on that site. I haven't been on that site in ages, but I do remember routinely being able to put together systems for friends on a budget from Audiogon used gear that sounded a lot better than what they could have gotten for their money at a chain store. And I picked up my Theta Cobalt DAC, which is what is playing music from my computer in my study right now, for under $100. The site does have a lot of retail vendors putting up very high end gear at real retail prices, which can freak you out quite a bit financially, but there are good deals there on really well built equipment (and audiophiles tend to take really good care of their gear).

[Roger Nair]

Eric, thanks again for the Audiogon referral. I'll be following used DAC's but I think I'll gravitate more to new gear in a lower price tier from established manufacturers mainly because IC tech that is up to date may have a better value and I can choose the number and type of inputs. I am taking my time because up to now I have not made use of online distribution of music therefore I see no pressing need. Audiogon may fill the bill for a new turntable, the old one has at times wavering speed and is in line for replacement and my music is in large portion in lps. So for now, I'll put some headphones on a piggy bank and build the fund. Thanks to all.