SCM 520 Nova or Felder AD951?

[Albert Lee]

Just as I about to put down a deposit on a Felder AD951, I went to SCM to have a look what they have on offer thats similar to AD951, it was out of curiosity but now I am in a predicament.

SCM offered their 520 Nova for $12700 USD (L'Invincibile was offered for $23000 USD)
Felder offered their AD951 for $12700 USD

Most of the machines in my workshop are Italian or SCM, it makes sense to me to have the full SCM range, but am I missing out if I dont go with the Felder?

Both machines offers power drive, and electronic read out of the table height.

SCM FS 520 Nova
The Good:
--max width 520mm
--thicker steel it seems (from Sawmill search)
--Same colour as my other machines, mainly the band saw and WBS.
--SCM has their own foundry and everything is in house.
--7kw main motor standard
--84 knives

The bad:
--I have been told the Xylent spiral cutter block were copied from Felder? and it is not as quiet as the Felder?
--Agent is 30 miles from where I live.
--Dust hood 120mm

Felder AD951
The Good:
--Silent cutter block
--Agent is 1.5 mile from where I live.
--Dust hood 140mm

The Bad:
--Not the same colour range as my other machines.
--smaller operation, outsourced parts?
--wages in Austria is higher than Italy, to make the machines equal cost as SCM, something must give?
--max width 504mm - only 16mm difference but it is there.
--5.5 kw motor power ($13,500)
--77 knives

What are your thoughts?

As part of this upgrading exercise, in the near future I will be upgrading my combination machine from Robland to either SCM or Felder Saw/Spindle moulder.

[David Kumm]

Should be an interesting learning experience. I'd look hard at the mechanism for setting the tables and that construction as the number one complaint with a JP is holding the tables consistently. At the end of the day you may find no other real issues that make one way better than the other. Fence assembly would be another thing to check. I'd also look at the planer and look at the construction of the segmented chipbreaker and how easy it is to adjust the pressure bar. If either offer Tersa I would compare the price. As much as I like the spiral, the tersa on a good quality machine has some advantages, particularly if price is less and you are machining fairly rough stock. Finish work is where spirals shine vs dimensioning ( IMO ). The machine with the tables that are most flat would win regardless of most other issues. One I could see and measure with a straight edge and feeler gauge would be my preference. The 900 series is my favorite Felder although the Minimax Elite 5 is probably the heaviest saw shaper combo. Dave

[Erik Loza]

Albert, I am admittedly the last person who will give you an un-biased answer but look at some of your criteria: Same color as your other machines? 84 knives versus 77 knives? 20mm difference on the dust port? One spiral head not as quiet as the other? And I have about a bizillion customers who would kill to have a dealer or sales guy within 30 miles of them. I'm not giving you a hard time but are these really the most important things when you're spending this much money? True that SCM has its own foundries and also true that some of its competitors don't but we're not talking about jobsite tools here. At this level, you should expect to get what you pay for, regardless of mfr. Again, if I was within 30 miles of every customer who was going to spend $13K, I would probably sell 10X as many machines, so you have a real luxury there.

If I were you, I would go and put my hands on both machines. Go listen to the machines yourself, run them, do the switch over and see how you like them both. It sounds like you already have a relationship with the SCM dealer, which I feel is worth something as well. Also, I agree with Dave: For a one-man shop machine, Tersa over spiral, no doubt about it. Best of luck in your search.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

I agree with both Dave's and Erik's comments and suggestions. If you can go "hands on", wow...what an advantage to most of us!!

[Albert Lee]

Albert, I am admittedly the last person who will give you an un-biased answer ......no doubt about it. Best of luck in your search.

Erik

Thanks Erik

I have seen the Felder already, but its the A941, its nice, I am yet to see the SCM, will pay them a visit next week, 30 miles is not a lot to you guys I know, but try to drive 30 miles in Auckland is a nightmare! Auckland traffic is even worse than any Major North American cities (according to one of the report out there)

I know going by spec is not really ideal, but that's all I have for now, there is no real demand here for woodworking machines, therefore the dealer only carry a small amount of machines on the shop floor.

my gut feeling is to go with SCM. Italian makes the best woodworking machines. I will see about this after viewing a buzzer the dealer has in store.

cheers.

[Albert Lee]

Should be an interesting learning experience. I'd look hard at the mechanism for setting the tables and that construction as the number one complaint with a JP is holding the tables consistently. At the end of the day you may find no other real issues that make one way better than the other. Fence assembly would be another thing to check. I'd also look at the planer and look at the construction of the segmented chipbreaker and how easy it is to adjust the pressure bar. If either offer Tersa I would compare the price. As much as I like the spiral, the tersa on a good quality machine has some advantages, particularly if price is less and you are machining fairly rough stock. Finish work is where spirals shine vs dimensioning ( IMO ). The machine with the tables that are most flat would win regardless of most other issues. One I could see and measure with a straight edge and feeler gauge would be my preference. The 900 series is my favorite Felder although the Minimax Elite 5 is probably the heaviest saw shaper combo. Dave

only if the dealer has the machine in stock so I can check them out.. both dealer does not have any in stock and more than often we have to buy unseen.

[Albert Lee]

Just to add, I already have 16" Tersa thicknesser, its loud and I am in residential area. I wanted to move to spiral only because it is quieter. I have seen the Felder A941 with their spiral cutter, its quiet, I wonder if SCM is as quiet as Felder - Unfortunately SCM NZ does not have spiral cutter block machine available to view or in stock...

[Erik Loza]

Albert, I find the Tersa just as quiet as helical. Or, I do not find the helical much louder than the Tersa. I find both quiet at idle just like I find both loud when planing. A lot of that is not just the cutterhead, though. The width of the board and how much stock you are removing, the mass of the machine and of the cutterhead, the size of the motor, etc. And sometimes, the dust collector is the loudest thing in the shop. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[David Kumm]

Albert, I understand the dilemma and the desire for less noise. I would doubt there is much noise difference between similar spiral designs as it is the straight knife projection over the cylinder that crates the " airplane taking off sound". Chip evacuation is important too and should be incorporated into the design. The tersa is more quiet than a regular head because to the projection but still a little more than the spiral. Can you find others with machines you can look at if the dealers don't have floor models. Many woodworkers are clueless about machine build but many also give good advice based on their real world experiences. I would seek them out. Way better than just comparing spec sheets. Dave

[mreza Salav]

Nothing to add here. Seems like deciding between a Porsche vs. Ferrari and you have a hard time.
I'm sure you'll enjoy both.

[Albert Lee]

I cant make up my mind about which is the better machine.

I might just go with the L'Invincibile FS7 - You cant go wrong with that name.

It will cost me a kidney but I'll be like :D:D:D, besides, I make money out of it.

negotiating with SCM as we speak and will upload the photos when my machine arrives, whether its Felder or SCM

[Erik Loza]

I just delivered an Invincible planer to a local shop and it's a VERY impressive machine. Honestly, I don't know any one-man shops who own something like that but, hey...

Erik

[Martin Wasner]

Honestly, I don't know any one-man shops who own something like that but, hey...

The only way your overhead can get lower than a one man shop is a zero man shop.

A number of guys that I've worked for have said the most money they ever made was when they just had two guys.

[Susumu Mori]

Hi Albert,

I'm in a Hammer/Felder camp and sometimes wonder what the SCM camp would be.
My only suggestion is, my experience says, "never underestimate the proximity."
The fact that you can meet the agent in person is a wonderful thing.
It is a major equipment. Having a friend or two in the manufacturer is a wonderful thing and as long as we don't behave like a person who tries to cut every corner, they treat us well because happy users are the best advertisement for them.

[David Kumm]

L'invincible is somewhere near Format and maybe even between Format and Martin. Way above the Nova or 900. Whether you need the upgrade is your call but it is a serious upgrade over either of your original choices. Dave

[Erik Loza]

...A number of guys that I've worked for have said the most money they ever made was when they just had two guys.

When the recession took everyone down, it was the big shops that were the first to go. I remember working with a local shop on a multi-machine package. Went out and met with them, gave a presentation, etc. They had CNC and nested system but needed some classical machines for solid wood. We started to talk numbers and then, they totally dropped off my radar. I get that from hobbyists, where they buy something else, then quit replying to me but very unusual for a shop to do that. So, I drove out there and lo and behold, the place was shuttered. In less than one month, they went from looking at maybe $50K-$60K of machinery to completely out of business. Nobody pays cash for a CNC and nested system, they lease it. And unless that thing is running every day, it's not paying for itself. It must have caught up with them.

Once we started to climb back out of the recession, what I observed was those one and two man shops growing to replace the vacuum that the huge shops created when they folded. Before the crash, I sold what we called a "Mini Match" pretty regularly: A sliding panel saw, edgebander, and boring machine. Now, I don't sell those any more. What I see these shops doing is paying cash (I rarely lease any more; it was free and loose before but the lenders have really tightened down) and buying single machines rather than whole packages. Interesting, lots more sliding panel saws then before but less of the multi-machine packages. That tells me that guys are being much more conservative with their spending habits. The big shops are back now; I don't deal in CNC's but see the traffic in SCM's booth at the shows, but at least for me, the one and two-man shops have been steadily growing.


Hi Albert,

I'm in a Hammer/Felder camp and sometimes wonder what the SCM camp would be.
My only suggestion is, my experience says, "never underestimate the proximity."
The fact that you can meet the agent in person is a wonderful thing.
It is a major equipment. Having a friend or two in the manufacturer is a wonderful thing and as long as we don't behave like a person who tries to cut every corner, they treat us well because happy users are the best advertisement for them.

At this level of machinery, this is really what someone should be basing their decision on. The machine will do what you want, that's not the issue. All these machines are built to order, they all have lead times, and they are all impossible to retrofit or modify if you (or if the dealer) screws up the order. I cannot tell you how many times I've talked to a customer who bought something at this level and either "thought it came with this" or worse, had the dealer (including SCM) screw it up, and leave them with a bad taste in their mouth. You REALLY need to have someone who both knows the machine builds and also understands how and what you expect to do with it in order to have a positive experience. You would think that paid professional reps who sell these things for a living would take the guesswork out of huge investments like this but I cannot tell you how many times I have seen (including other US SCM dealers) the equivalent of a customer being sold a diesel car when there are only gasoline filling stations around. The bigger and more exotic the machine, the more your rep has to know his stuff. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[David Kumm]

What Erik said. I'm a machine guy- woodworking and cars- and i can tell you that more often than not, I've done more homework and know the machines better than the sales person ( Erik excepted ). Look for someone who knows the woodworking business AND can tell you something about the machine that doesn't sound like it was memorized from a marketing brochure. Do your homework. It will pay off. Dave

[Erik Loza]

What Erik said. I'm a machine guy- woodworking and cars- and i can tell you that more often than not, I've done more homework and know the machines better than the sales person ( Erik excepted ). Look for someone who knows the woodworking business AND can tell you something about the machine that doesn't sound like it was memorized from a marketing brochure. Do your homework. It will pay off. Dave

Hahaha, that's a pretty high compliment.

I know that SCM is going to have the new Invincible slider in the booth at Atlanta. It has left and right blade tilt, which is new, and is aimed squarely to compete with Martin. Pretty much as a rule, the first time I lay eyes on any Invincible machine is at shows like that or unless I happen to sell one locally (like the shop that bought the planer). It's me and Sam and Dan (which really means me and Sam, LOL) who are demoing the classical stuff, so we need to know how it all works. Always, one of the Italians tells me to show them the control panel works, at which point I ask them if they are in the market for a bandsaw.

Erik

[Jim Becker]

h always, one of the italians tells me to show them the control panel works, at which point i ask them if they are in the market for a bandsaw.


roflol!!!!!!!!!

[Patrick Walsh]

I would get the best machine i could afford but thats just the type of guy i am. I dont have a frugal bone in my body.

I have a AD 941 and love it now that is is set up right. Had i been able to afford a Martin at the time i would had purchased a Martin.

When making big ticket purchases i never regeret just ponnying up for exactly what i want and getting it over with once. When i purchased my 941 that was exactly the case. It was nearly a year of saving for me. In all reality Grizzly is more my price point but that aint never gonna happen.

When i purchase a slider it will be the top of the line Format4. If the top of the line Format4 is anywhere near the same price as a SCM or Martin i will just go right pass go ponny up the big clams...

I know during the lengthy process of getting Fleder to make good on the comision i payed them to set up my machine after it arrived completely wacked i was really wishing i had just purchased the dam Martin that came priced delivered installed.

[Albert Lee]

Thank you all for your feedback.

It seems Martin is the best out there, however I can not buy a Martin in NZ, they don't have a rep here, my hobby woodworking business generate ample income to justify the spend, the overhead is just my time, therefore I believe I should be buying the best J/P combination out there.

The Format Dual 51 J/P combo and the spec look very very similar to the AD951. I wonder if there is substantial differences at all? L'Invincibile is very different to Nova. Is AD951 very very different to Format Dual 51? I doubt it...

Stil leaning towards L'invincibile.

[Albert Lee]

Hi Albert,

I'm in a Hammer/Felder camp and sometimes wonder what the SCM camp would be.
My only suggestion is, my experience says, "never underestimate the proximity."
The fact that you can meet the agent in person is a wonderful thing.
It is a major equipment. Having a friend or two in the manufacturer is a wonderful thing and as long as we don't behave like a person who tries to cut every corner, they treat us well because happy users are the best advertisement for them.

Hi Susumu, thanks for the comment, from my observation, I think Felder belongs in a Professional hobbyist shop, SCM is for manufacturing?? I maybe wrong

[Susumu Mori]

When I purchased mine, these are what I found. I guess many already know but I listed anyway.

>Hammer is considerably cheaper than Felder and their components are quite different for the current product lines. In terms of the specs and capacity, the differences are real. For me, Hammer quality is already better than what I want and need, though.

>The Minimax line of SCM is positioned in between Hammer and Felder in price wise for most of the products. For many products, the components seem more substantial than Hammer and they weight significantly heavier than Hammer.

>Between Minimax and Felder, I don't know much, but Felder products surely have more bells and whistles. This could be good (if you want bells and whistles) or bad (if you don't want to pay extra for them).

In any way, it is great that we has so many options with clearly different concepts.

[Erik Loza]

Susumu, just to clarify, the SCMi Invincible (or Nova) lines are SUBSTANTIALLY more robust than anything in the Minimax line. That being said, my colleague has a Minimax Elite-S machine with 16-inch jointer/planer in his shop it's bigger and heavier than any other "hobby-level" machine I've seen (and I've seen them all). Personally, I have never found a need for anything more than that in a hobby or one-man shop but again, if that's what the customer wants to buy...

Erik

[David Kumm]

The Martin JP is actually a Griggio and i doubt it is heavier than the L'invincible. The old Hoffmann might be the only comparable in the JP line. The hinge and table platform design is what you look for in a JP. Can you throw a timber you can barely lift on it and not move the tables, and have them always return exactly to spec. Dave

[Robert LaPlaca]

The hinge and table platform design is what you look for in a JP. Can you throw a timber you can barely lift on it and not move the tables, and have them always return exactly to spec. Dave

Couldn't agree more Dave. Also the Martin TP300 is a Griggio rebranded machine, got a chance to see the machine at Martin USA showroom that is in the Charlotte NC area.

[Rick Fisher]

I have a couple SCM machines, a couple Felder and a couple Griggio .. I guess the color isn't important to me..

I ordered two new machines this year, one is a Mini Max .. the other is a Martin. The MM gets delivered next week.. the Martin is a few months away.

Most important to me is after sales service. I priced out Felder, SCM and Martin.. The fella from SCM was amazing for service. The fella from the Martin dealer was also great.. he actually got someone from Martin involved in the sale as well because I asked some weird questions.

Quality wise, I think you will be hard pressed to wear out any of these brands. Having the odd break down ??? Its more likely. When the machine won't start for some weird reason, you want someone to call you back, you want them to care about your machine getting running again.

You need communication.

The Martin machine I bought was a big expense to me, I have over 50 emails going back and forth. I asked some really dumb questions. I had just ordered a Mini Max machine from the salesman from SCM.. he was great too but his machine simply didn't do one of the things I wanted .. Martin had some features I really admired. I ponied up the extra cash and bought the Martin, and suspect it will be another year till the sticker shock / pain wears off.

My point is that I paid for service, support and features. All those companies offer good service, but the service from SCM might be a bit better in Atlanta than Yellowknife. Folks in Tirol Austria probably do well to buy Felder. The people involved are more important than the color.

[David Davies]

What Martin did you order?

Dave

[Larry Edgerton]

I just delivered an Invincible planer to a local shop and it's a VERY impressive machine. Honestly, I don't know any one-man shops who own something like that but, hey...

Erik

I have an S 520, as close as I will get. But then, its as close as I need to be.

[Larry Edgerton]

What Martin did you order?

Dave


Rick, spill the beans, curious minds need to know. What machines did you buy?

[Joe Calhoon]

Rick, one thing with Martin is you only cry once.

Albert, If you want the ultimate in a J/P look at Hofmann.
http://www.hofmann-maschinen.de/en/produkte/hobeln/ad-515635/produktinfos-highlights/
These are handcrafted solid cast iron machines with the unique feature of not having to move the tables between jointer and planing. The design of the dust collection port is very good on these also. The fence works as easy as Martins for one handed movement.
Panhans has a similar design in sheet steel construction for less money. but will have more vibration because of the steel construction.

I doubt these are available in NZ but possibly Aus

[Nick Hicks]

Hi - you know the problem with opinions - everyone has one :-)

Just my thoughts on the cutterhead - I also live in a residential area so (avoiding) noise is important to me. I originally had a Robland JP with knives and upgraded to a Felder with a spiral cutterhead. It made a huge difference to the noise levels but I tend to work with harder woods (Eucalypts) so that may or may not be a factor for you. The finish was better as well so that meant a little less sanding.

I have Minimax and Felder/Format4 machines and both brands are good. The problem comparing models is that they are all made to differing price points. The decision making process depends on how you prioritise your selection criteria. If you just do it informally, it is hard to decide. A formal approach involves listing the criteria and applying a weighting to them to arrive at your final decision. Good luck there :-)

Just a comment on one of your original statements:
>As part of this upgrading exercise, in the near future I will be upgrading my combination machine from Robland to either SCM or Felder Saw/Spindle moulder.

I would suggest getting a standalone shaper (spindle moulder) - not a combo. Having the ability to dial in height, tilt and most importantly - fence settings - is critical to a stress-free and productive use of the shaper. Having to repeat operations when a part breaks/goes missing makes it very easy when you can just dial in the settings (or even save the operations as a program). Combos usually have the height settings but not the ability to set the fence (repeatably). Anyone who has set up lock miters will know that pain :-(

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,
Nick

[Rick Fisher]

Rick, spill the beans, curious minds need to know. What machines did you buy?

I ordered an MM-24 bandsaw and ended up ordering a T-60C slider.

The T-60C has a hand wheel adjustment for the rip fence on the operator side, and it will accept a dado blade. 7.5hp PH-3 with a 2 axis scoring unit.

I compared the Felder 940, SCM Nova 400, SCM Class and the T-60C .. The T-60C is the entry level Martin, but its still 3200 lbs and loaded with features. It takes a 16" blade, 7.5hp Motor etc.

An entry level Martin isn't really all that entry level. It still has electronic rise - fall - tilt and a digital control panel, memory settings, digital displays and all that Jazz. It also will accept a dado blade which the SCM wouldn't ..

The MM-24 is 4.8 hp .. I have an older 24" SCM bandsaw which I'm turning into a dedicated re-saw machine, the new saw will be the general purpose saw.

The MM-24 is sitting at the local dealer, I will get it next week.

[mreza Salav]

Those are great machines Rick, congrat's!
All these going to the basement (new) shop?

[Robert LaPlaca]

Rick, one thing with Martin is you only cry once.

Albert, If you want the ultimate in a J/P look at Hofmann.
http://www.hofmann-maschinen.de/en/produkte/hobeln/ad-515635/produktinfos-highlights/
These are handcrafted solid cast iron machines with the unique feature of not having to move the tables between jointer and planing.

Good god, the Hofmann j/p is a beautiful machine. Alas, there isn't a NA distributor for the Hofmann machine (my wife says thank goodness).

[Rick Fisher]

Those are great machines Rick, congrat's!
All these going to the basement (new) shop?

No... no machines in the basement, its just for storage ..

New shop is main floor with a basement. The basement is all wiring, ducting and pipe for air, plus storage.

[Albert Lee]

Rick, one thing with Martin is you only cry once.

Albert, If you want the ultimate in a J/P look at Hofmann.
http://www.hofmann-maschinen.de/en/produkte/hobeln/ad-515635/produktinfos-highlights/
These are handcrafted solid cast iron machines with the unique feature of not having to move the tables between jointer and planing. The design of the dust collection port is very good on these also. The fence works as easy as Martins for one handed movement.
Panhans has a similar design in sheet steel construction for less money. but will have more vibration because of the steel construction.

I doubt these are available in NZ but possibly Aus

Thanks Joe for the info, I have sent an email to Hofmann exploring the possibility of buying one from Germany/Europe and have it sent over here.

Even if there is a distributor in AUS, I probably wont buy from Australia, the freight cost from Australia to NZ is double the cost of Europe to New Zealand. Funny that.

I think it will come down to Format Dual 51 vs L'Invincibile.

[Albert Lee]

Hi - you know the problem with opinions - everyone has one :-)

I would suggest getting a standalone shaper (spindle moulder) - not a combo. Having the ability to dial in height, tilt and most importantly - fence settings - is critical to a stress-free and productive use of the shaper. Having to repeat operations when a part breaks/goes missing makes it very easy when you can just dial in the settings (or even save the operations as a program). Combos usually have the height settings but not the ability to set the fence (repeatably). Anyone who has set up lock miters will know that pain :-(

Just my 2 cents worth.

Cheers,
Nick

Thanks Nick

Yes I have this long setting up time with the Spindle moulder on the current combo, half of the time its guess work and the other half with a trial stock to ensure I got the right removal.

Space is a premium. I dont have a lot of space. Although the stand alone shaper is a good suggestion, but I havnt thought that far, at the moment only looking at upgrading current combo to a bigger J/P combo.

[Nick Hicks]

Space is a premium. I dont have a lot of space.

If one is going to buy premium equipment then maybe a new shed/shop is in order. :-)

When I had bought too much gear to fit into the garage, I had to have a shed built. It amounted to less than the cost of one of machines anyway and it gave me so much more in terms of layout options. What frustrated me mostly was using a combo machine and having to switch back and forth and never being able to properly match the parts. The only dual function machine I have now is the jointer/planer.

I effectively gave up on the combo's shaper/spindle moulder due to my inability to set it up correctly. With my standalone shaper, I can now dial in settings to an accuracy of 0.1mm (4 thou) and when doing some drawers yesterday, even being 0.1mm off left a ridge I could feel. This may be just me but I like tight joints - now I can change cutters and be right-on when I go to use them. It's hard to describe in words the satisfaction that gives. Instead of using dominos or butt joins and screws, you have more options. Sorry for the rant.

Cheers
Nick

[Erik Loza]

...Yes I have this long setting up time with the Spindle moulder on the current combo, half of the time its guess work and the other half with a trial stock to ensure I got the right removal.

Albert, what combination machine do you have right now?

Erik

[Albert Lee]

Albert, what combination machine do you have right now?

Erik

Erik, I have a Robland NX410 Pro, full size panel saw with 16" Tersa thicknesser. it has treated me well in the past 3 years, I bought it new for $12k USD, a CU410 Elite fully optioned is roughly $24k USD 3 years ago in Auckland, back then I wasnt sure if spending $24k USD on a machine is justified for a hobby-business, it all started with a customer asked if I was able to make her a piece of furniture, I did my market research and so far, it proved to be a good seller.

I have been looking at saw/spindle for future upgrade, it makes sense to have them individual.

SCM offer TL version and/or the TL-Pro10 version on the spindle moulder, any comment on these optioned accesories? I was looking at the Ti145 electronic version, is the electronic version spindle moulder on the SCM reliable enough or just gimmicks? I mostly do tenons on the spindle moulder, will I be better off with a less complicated Ti105 with carriage?

Albert

Thanks

[Albert Lee]

If one is going to buy premium equipment then maybe a new shed/shop is in order. :-)

When I had bought too much gear to fit into the garage, I had to have a shed built. It amounted to less than the cost of one of machines anyway and it gave me so much more in terms of layout options. What frustrated me mostly was using a combo machine and having to switch back and forth and never being able to properly match the parts. The only dual function machine I have now is the jointer/planer.

I effectively gave up on the combo's shaper/spindle moulder due to my inability to set it up correctly. With my standalone shaper, I can now dial in settings to an accuracy of 0.1mm (4 thou) and when doing some drawers yesterday, even being 0.1mm off left a ridge I could feel. This may be just me but I like tight joints - now I can change cutters and be right-on when I go to use them. It's hard to describe in words the satisfaction that gives. Instead of using dominos or butt joins and screws, you have more options. Sorry for the rant.

Cheers
Nick

Hi Nick, if extending my workshop is that easy I would have done it long ago, we have very strict rules here about your building envelope in the suburban area, and unfortunately thats where I am.

It will be easier for me to sell the house and buy another house with a dedicated workshop/barn.