Power Feeder on a Table Saw

[Keith Hooks]

I've searched, but I haven't found anyone that's doing this. Every case I've seen of power feeder use has been on a router or shaper. Does anyone use them on a TS for ripping? I was thinking it could have some advantages over hand feeding, primarily safety, speed, and control. But, I'm guessing there are some downsides that I don't know about or I'd see them used more often.

[David Wilson]

Keith
Yesterday afternoon there was a show on DIY which featured a power feeder on a TS.
Check DIN net and you should find some info

[Dev Emch]

Power feeders on table saws are great! It turns your saw into effectively a straight line rip saw such as the Diel or Matthison without having to have a massive, several thousand pound dedicated straight line rip unit. A 202 or 404 mathison can weigh at least 4000 pounds to 8000 pounds. These are often chain feed units and the blade is actually held above the table instead of below it. Replacing a chain on a 202 or 404 will cost you a severe penny!

But there are some limitations to using a feeder. First of all, feeders are heavy and too large a feeder mounted to far out can tip your table saw if your not careful. That is, when the feeder is swung out of the way for other projects. So more often, you find feeders on large format saws such as the martin T-17s or the Oliver 88s or the northfield #4s. In fact, the feeder I am now using on my fancy german shaper came into my pocession as an item bolted to a northfield #4 saw. When I sold this saw to replace it with a #4 slider, I just kept the feeder. Later, I sold my #4 slider in a jointer deal and kept my other two used saws... those being a martin T-17 and an oliver 88. The martin T-17 did come with a socket for support of a feeder. Often these days, that is an option. I did not order my shaper with this feature and later, had to install it myself.

One drawback to using a feeder on a table saw is that even when swung out of the way, it may conflict with sheet goods being run through the saw. The heavy duty feeders may look light but they are not. Having to man handle a feeder on and off the saw can get old real fast. So I think that may have something to do with it. I have seen a feeder bracket by felder that allows the feeder to swing out of the way but also to swing down out of the way. Not sure about this. My feeder bracket on the shaper is made from 3/4 inch thick steel plate and machined. Its super beef and this may also cause some flexure on a lighter duty cabinet saw.

But you could go with a smaller duty, lighter unit on the table saw as well. One thing is clear. Once you use a feeder on long rip cuts, you will not soon go back to not using one. Not only does it make the saw safer to use, but it also virtually eliminates all those curvy burn marks you get when you struggle to regain a new hold position during a long rip. It also holds gainly stock to the saw which also improves the safty. Lastly, you get clean, smooth long and consistant cuts. So I have to place my vote to using one on a tablesaw.

Now, one thing to keep in mind here. Feeders often work by lightly shoving the stock into the fence to force registration while driving the stock through the saw. On a shaper, both sides of the fence are secured to the machine. On a table saw with a fence such as a Beismeyer, you may get some flexing outward of the fence which can be a bad thing. So when your using a feeder on a beismeyer fence, always back the fence with a heavy board that is clamped to the table on both the front and rear of the table. This solves this movement issue. Because of where the feeder is located in relation to the cut, this is not an issue with a heavy duty patternmaker fence.

In terms of hooking up a feeder, bear in mind that machines such as a saw stop will have all sorts of problems with feeders. Also, on more modern machines, there are all sorts of OSHA safty interlocks on the machine. The last thing you want is to have the feeder shoving stock into a machine that has cut out for safty reasons. That is why on my shaper, I had to do the following. Because its modern german, all the electrics are IEC class DIN rail mount Seimens. I studied the wiring diagram for a while and checked out if there was any extra space left over on the DIN rails. There was... *BARELY* enough to mount one more IEC starter for a my feeder moter. I then took the input power off the main feed rail downstream of the main safty interlocks to supply power to this starter. This way, if any of the primary safty interlocks are tripped, it takes the feeder offline as well. This could happen when an overheat occurs or when I loose a leg on my three phase power. It can also happen when either the left or right emergency safty cutout switches are pushed. Lastly, I used my greenlee hole punch set to punch some precise round holes in the case to support a new hubble female flush mount, twist lock plug and a bulletin 800 allan bradley start and stop switch (actually two switches). In time, I may replace my other switches with AB B-800s as I like the 35 mm switches better than the IEC switches. More oliver like.

The martin only has a 4 wire twist lock plug wired into the power on the saw. So I have to kill both the saw and the feeder in two operations. This will also have to change and hopefully this winter, I will get to replacing the electrical box on the old martin saw.

So hoepfully all this will help answer your questions.... in short, its a great idea but with caveats.:D

[markus shaffer]

Keith,

Dev has stated the most obvious problem which is that feeders can be real heavy. Having to change that out every time you want to cut bigger pieces of wood will become very tiresome. As he stated, Felder came up with a folding bracket that hangs off the back of the saw. When not in use, it drops the feeder down out of the below the surface of the saw. However, it is designed to mount to the back of a Felder saw and hang from the cast iron top. Although I do not have one, I did see one at the Felder showroom. If one were so inclined, I suspect it could be modified to fit your saw or something similar could be made if you have the skills. Below is a link to see what it is like. The problem with this method is that it would interfere with an outfeed table.

http://partner.felder.co.at/d_popup_details.php?id_products=0000002194&title=Feeder+Tilt-Away+Mount&id_lang=0000000002

The other issue that Dev mentioned is that with your standard tablesaw fence, the pressure from the feeder would cause it to deflect. I have a feeder on my jointer and it sure causes that fence to deflect some if I toe it in too much. Obviously when face jointing it's not the same issue though.

I think I remember someone post photos of this somewhere along the way. The whole process of drilling and tapping the cast iron top of a saw to mount a feeder. Check the archives.

-Markus

[Steve Clardy]

I occasionally use mine on the table saw, but not lately. I used to rip pine for picture frames. The last year I did that I produced over 17,000 frames.
I have a worn spot on my table from all that 3/4" ripping.

[Doug Jones from Oregon]

I do have a power feed installed on one of my cab saws. But, as others have stated here, they are heavy and awkward to remove very often, so my solution was to dedicate a saw. I rip high qty's of red oak every week with my system and it is nice to not have the blade marks from hand repositioning.

Also, I feel much safer putting a employee with less experience on this saw...

Doug

[Dev Emch]

One more thing. I have to say that I am a bit stiff when it comes to drilling and bolting feeders on a nice cast iron surface. First of all, if you were to bump a heavy feeder by accident, it could rip out a chunk of your cast iron table. I actually saw a yates on ebay like this a few months ago. Nice hole in your table.

Second, the bolt pattern for feeders is not standardized which I think it should be. As a result, if you change feeders or sell your saw to someone else who has a different feeder, soon, your top looks like swiss cheese.

This problem can be solved by using rotating mounting brackets. The bracket will always mount to the same two holes but I can now replace the top of the swinging bracket with new steel sporting a new bolt pattern. If you can flip the feeder down and out of the way as well, that is even better.

Lastly, if your consuming truck loads of lumber for similar items, you may wish to consider investing a dedicated straight line rip saw. These were made by most of the major companies as well as Deil and Matthison. For the shear volume of what these can saw, they cannot be beat price wise in todays used market. But be forwarned, they are massive and some parts can become extremely expensive to replace or repair.

[Steve Rowe]

Keith - I use one on my combo and have the following observations:

-Very, very safe
-Had to buy longer arm to reach from the tilt bracket to position it properly around the blade
-Have tilt bracket and is very heavy and awkward to swing down even with a lift assist device. (longer arm makes it this way)
-If you don't have the ability to swing it out of the way, you will limit your rip width for wider panels.
-If you opt to swing out of the way, your TS needs to have sufficient mass to counteract a rather long moment arm of a 150lb feeder hanging on a steel shaft 30" off the back of your saw.
-Rip width is limited to greater than the width of the tires plus a little for clearance to the fence.
-Do not attempt to use a feeder on a saw less than about 3 HP. Depending on the speed of the feeder you can bring that blade to a stop almost as fast as the SawStop mechanism. Tried this on a Craftsman TS 20 years ago and upgraded saws with a week.

Steve

[Dev Emch]

Steve... dito your remarks!

[Keith Hooks]

Thanks for all the information, guys. From what I'm reading, it looks like the feeder has serious benefits in terms of safety and quality of cut (I suspected as much). Now, if we could figure out a way to make it easier to use with the saw by making them lighter, more interchangeable, and more light-fence-friendly, we'd be all set!