Possible Overlooked Safety Concern?

[Roger Chandler]

Working at a lathe has unique safety concerns. One thing that does not hit the radar very often on these forums, is foot issues related to turning. Over the last few weeks, I have developed a condition known as Plantars Facsiitis, which is a form of tendonitis/severe inflamation of the plantar facscia ligament that connects the heel with the ball of the foot.

I have anti-fatique mats that I stand on, but I have developed this issue. A very painful situation that makes hobbling the best one can do. From research, it seems that contributing factors include standing for long periods....like we do at the lathe. It also seems that good arch support and ankle support are critical.

Research also shows rest/ staying off your feet, anti-inflamitory meds [nsaids] and perhaps injections are required to improve/recover, with about 5% of cases rquiring surgical intervention.

Question for turners: What type of shoes do you wear while turning? What is the level of arch and ankle support do your feet have in what you wear at the lathe? Would boots be best, or perhaps another type of shoe?

I have a demo scheduled in August, and need to be at the lathe in preparation for it, and now this plantars facsiitis won't allow me! It is painful, and can last a year..:eek:...not an option! Any tips on speeding up recovery time? I have an appointment scheduled with the Podiatrist, so depending on what she says, there may be injections in store next week?

[Mike Goetzke]

Roger - hopefully you feel better by August. Few years back I developed planters factitious but not as severe are you describe. I ended up buying a pair of Redwing boots with inserts form fit to my foot. I wore these around the house and in the shop and really helped reduce the pain and eventually it disappeared.

Mike

[Roger Chandler]

Roger - hopefully you feel better by August. Few years back I developed planters factitious but not as severe are you describe. I ended up buying a pair of Redwing boots with inserts form fit to my foot. I wore these around the house and in the shop and really helped reduce the pain and eventually it disappeared.

Mike

Thanks Mike! What particular model boot, may I ask? [if you can remember?]

[daryl moses]

Roger I feel your pain......literally!! I have developed the same thing, it makes even walking very painful. I didn't realize that standing at the lathe was a contributing factor, but it makes sense. I just knew that sometimes my foot hurt and didn't know why or the cause. I did find that wearing shoes with a stiff insole does seem to help.
I will be following this thread.

[Brian Kent]

Roger, I am on the tail end of a bad bout with Plantar Facsiitis. Really painful. Number one golden moment is thinking I was over it, mowing the lawn, and catching my foot in a gopher hole. Silver moment award goes to any time I was trying to balance on the worst foot while getting dressed. It lasted a couple of months, and has been tender and vulnerable for several months after that.

What helped? Each was a minor help but built towards some healing:

Stretching - a doctor's recommendation of stretching of the legs and back that helped my whole frame absorb position changes and shock. This was by far the most important to me (and my wife when she had it).

Shoes - I use Dr. Scholl's walking shoes from Big 5 when they are on sale. Cole Haan pull-on shoes for work. Sometimes extra thick socks are helpful when snug is more comfortable. I can also slip them off under the desk when needed. Red Wing Boots that fit really well. Each of these are the result of long searches because my feet don't fit the average shoes. Then every 10 years I buy a top notch pair of Allen Edmonds on sale and wear them once a week. The boots and dress shoes are expensive, but not so much when I get a decade of usage.

Anti-inflammatory over-the-counter stuff.

Good luck, Roger.

(As an aside, It is a good moment for some of us - I mean me - to think about workable lathe seating for the parts of life that have some aches and pains pop up.)

The doctor said mine came not from the standing but from the long periods of desk time - allowing my legs to tighten up.

[Roger Chandler]

[QUOTE=Brian Kent;2575062 "The doctor said mine came not from the standing but from the long periods of desk time - allowing my legs to tighten up.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that info, Brian.....I may have the same issue with long periods of desk time just like you...we both have the same vocation, if I remember correctly! I do notice that my legs do seem to "tighten up" as you mention. That lawn mowing is another thing..........I am just glad my son volunteered to cut the grass this last time, as I don't think I could have endured that!

[Jon McElwain]

Stretching - a doctor's recommendation of stretching of the legs and back that helped my whole frame absorb position changes and shock. This was by far the most important to me (and my wife when she had it).


+1 on Stretching. Legs and back of course, but I'll add stretching the foot. Stretching the ligaments in the foot (top and bottom) and focusing on the lower legs is important and helps ease the discomfort.

[Reed Gray]

I did tear my plantar once, and the sports doctors had a special way to wrap the foot to help take off stress and help it cure, can't remember though. Good posture when standing at the lathe or any other job is HUGE in reducing and eliminating many common ailments. With bad posture there are so many ways we 'compensate' and that makes things worse. Part of why I recommend Thai Chi to every one who listens. Just sucking in your gut does a lot for keeping your back straight. We relax too much, and it takes effort to remember to 'keep your back straight'. For shoes, I have some Merril Slip ons which are padded nicely.

robo hippy

[David Bassett]

Thanks Mike! What particular model boot, may I ask? [if you can remember?]

Careful. Shoes that help him are unlikely to work for you. We each have different foot shapes. (I needed safety toed boots, went to Red Wing, and spent several hours while the guy tried to fit me. I was in a rush and bought the only pair that wasn't excruciating. I wear them as little as possible because they still don't fit *my* foot well.)

[Mark Greenbaum]

Once I had a part-time job at Geek Squad, and developed Plantar Fasciitis. I remembered what a friend had said, and got a good pair of plain black Rockports, the best shoes for long period of walking or standing on hard surfaces. They worked fairly quickly to resolve the pain (a week or two).

[Brian Kent]

Agreeing with all that has been said - what fits one person's feet has next to nothing to do with what helps and fits you. I tried on a couple dozen pair of Red Wing Boots before I stumbled on the ones that fit my feet. I have to leave the store many times because after trying on several that don't fit and my feet get all weird.

[Bruce Page]

I feel for you, talk to your podiatrist. I was hit with Plantars facsiitis in my right foot several years ago. It was some of the worst pain I have ever experienced. After running the gamut of sleeves, arch supports, rockers, and stretching exercises, the only thing that relieved the pain for me was three cortisone injections spaced over a few months. After the first two injections the pain relief was quick in coming but short lived. After the 3rd injection the pain was gone for good. To this day if I set my right foot down too hard while barefooted I will get a twinge of pain.

[John K Jordan]

Roger, For decades I mostly sat at a computer until I retired. I've had several bouts of severe plantar fasciitis that made it difficult to get around. Several cortisone injections gave instant relief... for a while. The last time I got the injection the foot MD said that I would probably outlive the shot - in other words, the problem will come back. Unless...

He taught me a stretching exercise that seems to have cured it. I'll describe:
- Do this while sitting BEFORE you stand
- Sit straight up in the chair
- Lift the leg to nearly parallel to the ground
- Stretch isometrically by pulling the toe towards you with the muscles for 10-15 seconds.
- Again, do this EVERY time and BEFORE you load the foot, that is, every time before you stand up from sitting.
- Don't go barefoot, even around the house

POINT 1: The doctor said don't waste time with a lazy, wimpy stretch! To demonstrate, he held my foot and pulled and had me stretch while he was pulling. The whole time he was almost yelling, "Come on, harder, pull harder, you can do better than that, you need to get red in the face!" The point is to stretch it way more than you might think necessary.

POINT 2: Following this I have had no problem now for years! It's almost a miracle. I do this stretch periodically with the "good" foot too as a preventative measure. It might look a bit unusual sticking the leg out and stretching before standing in the church or getting out of the automobile, but if it heals the condition?

POINT 3: If I get lazy and forget OR if I don't remember to stretch until AFTER I stand I can start to feel the pain coming back after a few days. There is evidently something to an extreme stretch while sitting.

Another thing I do which has helped with general foot and leg pain, especially when standing a lot at the lathe or walking (I walk miles here at the farm on a typical day). I have needed and used arches in my shoes for decades for more support than most shoes provide. I switched to wearing unique footware with good arch support and very spongy to boot - these things are so amazing I have four pairs at the moment and might order some more:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0128O4DQ2

These things are incredibly comfortable. I usually wear them all day except when I need extra protection (horse riding, chainsawing, beekeeping). I've been wearing them for a couple of years now since a friend brought some over and said I HAD to try these! I no longer get pain from standing too long. My back feels better too, but maybe that's a coincidence. I do use anti-fatigue mats in the shop but these things are like wearing soft support arch anti-fatigue mats on my feet all day long! (BTW, these look a bit like Crocs but there is NO comparison.)

This is part of their advertising hype: Antibacterial, Medical Arch Support, Comfort. Manmade sole. Heat Activated. Deep Heel Cup. Anatomically Correct. Whatever, works for me. YMMV, of course.

That's my story.

JKJ

[Jim Underwood]

I used to work on cars and run around on the concrete all the time. After about 15 years of that, I developed PF in both feet. Summers were the worst because it increased inflammation.

Best money I ever spent was the $90 on custom orthotics that gave me a lot of arch support. Helped IMMENSELY!

The second best thing to relieve the pain? A bag of styrofoam coffee cups. Seriously. Fill a few with water and freeze them. Built in insulation for icing down the foot. The icing really helped relieve the pain and reduce inflammation.

And stretching. You need to balance the strength between the calf and the shin muscles so that they don't tear up the fascia... At least that's my understanding.

Good luck with it.

[Brian Kent]

My wife got it from Bikram Yoga where a 22 year old instructor yelled at her with similar words that John's doctor did - and that is what tore her foot up. So do what your doctor tells you to do. My healing has been very gentle stretching, but the one John said before standing up is wonderful.

[J.D.Redwine]

Custom made orthotics.

[Sparky Paessler]

Roger my wife has had a lot of trouble with plantar facscia and I ended up making a small ramp she can sit next to the wall and when she gets up in the morning she will stand on it and it stretches the tendons in her foot. Has help her a lot! Keeps her from having problems with it when done regularly and helps clear up issues with it when she doesn't. I think the one I made was about a 30 degree ramp and she stands on it with her hands on the wall and then kind of leans into the wall to stretch them. I have made a dozen or so of them for her friends that have issues with it also. Very simple to make. I will say though that once it has flared up it does take a while to clear up. Understand it is really painful. Hope yours gets better! I have problems with gout in my feet which is not fun either! Cleared it up by giving up red meat.

[Tony De Masi]

Roger, while I have not suffered from PF you also have asked what we wear while at the lathe. A year ago I switched from a pair of New Balance, 600 series, to a pair of Merrel Jungle Moc shoes. To say these have been my go to shoes would a an understatement. There may have been a few days that I didn't wear them. I'm doing a four day show starting on Thursday and they will be on my feet every minute.

[Wade Holloway]

Roger I am a PA and I have had lots of patients with the same problem. You have got some really good advice. Stretching is great to help get over it and to prevent it. Orthotics can also help a lot too. But to treat the acute problem you still need to do several things. NSAIDs are very important, most of the time I recommend Aleve, 2 of the them twice a day as long as you do not have any contraindications for using it. Another is to get one of the old fashioned style Coke bottles, the 8 oz type. put some water in it and freeze it. Just make sure you do not fill it all the way up because it will break if to full when you freeze it. Once it is frozen sit down in a chair place your foot on top of the coke bottle, put a lot of downward pressure and roll the bottle back and forth with the arch of your foot. About 10 minutes twice a day. This puts ice treatment to the tendon and helps to stretch it too. Between the NSAIDs, Ice treatment and the stretching you should be good to go shortly. As several have said get you a good pair of shoes/boots that have good arch support. You should be good in a few weeks. Good luck to you.

[Pete Copeland]

Roger,

I have had this problem for about the past 2 years. What seems to have helped the most was Superfeet insoles. They have various sizes. I have a full-sized pair for shoes that have removable insoles (the green ones) and a thiner pair (black) for shoes that don't have removable insoles. These cost about $50 per pair but they have been money well spent. I still have issues (and rolling my sole over a cold drink can can help) but there was a big difference when I got these insoles.

[John K Jordan]

...- and that is what tore her foot up. So do what your doctor tells you to do.


That is sage advice! The problem with using someone else's procedure/prescription/cure is each individual can have different conditions.

My Lovely Bride tore tendons in her foot hiking in Glacier park, it started with a pain and gradually got worse. Tendon replacement surgery, much pain, and two years of PT exercises made her one of the success stories. The "no pain, no gain" mantra is not universally valid!

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

John, if my doctor had given me that stretching advice, I would have changed doctors. Having been an athlete my whole life, stretching, just like any exercise starts slow and you warm up to it, you do not jump in and go full throttle to start. I figure my Thai Chi gives me all of the stretches, and range of motion is as important as anything else. My stretches for feet, ankles, legs, knees and hips include the 4 points of the compass, front and back, side to side, and the 4 diagonal points.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

John, if my doctor had given me that stretching advice, I would have changed doctors....

Well, I had continued the set of the stretches he had prescribed a few years before for the same condition, just not to that degree and with my leg in that position. Maybe he decided it was time to escalate. Or, maybe this special stretch was something new designed just for the plantar fasciitis. What ever, it really worked for me! (and a friend) I'm 66 and can still race a teenager up the hill from the barn and win sometimes.

Based on past history of successful surgery and cures for my own family and some friends, his reputation in the community (hard to get an appointment) as well as strong endorsement from my general physician, I wouldn't trade this doctor for the entire Mayo clinic.

But as the man said, do what your doctor says!

(I went for a physical years ago and my doctor exclaimed "Wow, you lost 30 lbs!". I reminded him that he told me to lose some weight and he said he told everyone that but I was the first one who did. Joking, I'm sure.)

JKJ

[Dok Yager]

Roger I will agree with a Lot that has been said here. Wade and others are on track with stretching, Aleve or any good Nsaid. The Cold coke bottle works Great! I suffered from this and a Lot of other back problems from one too many "car" accidents. Road racing, some offf-road and Drag racing. The final blow was an end over end and rolled 5 times. OUCH!! Took a year of hard work to get back to normal. I did get a pair of good expensive custom fit orthotics that certainly help. I also Always wear my Red Wings for support. And I stretch before and after each turning session.

[Roger Chandler]

To all who replied to this thread on foot issues related to turning. Just to let you know, I did not mean for it to turn into a thread about my condition, per se, but please know that I truly appreciate all the great advice and information you all posted! These are so helpful, and it is a testament to the great group of folks who are part of the "Creeker" family! What came across to me was a sense of genuine concern and empathy, for which I am so appreciative.

The other question about what you wear at the lathe, and what helps was answered very succinctly as well. What a great group you all are!

Plantar's Facsiitis, I am finding out is a fairly common issue, and the fact that standing for long periods can lead to issues, lets me know that I and others who turn need to be proactive about foot care, support and taking steps to stretch, both before and during turning sessions. All good advice, which I certainly intend to take to heart and put into practice. I like turning too much to give it up, so I will persevere through this and do all I can to get better and back to my work at the lathe........I just hope it does not take too long! Thanks again, everyone! :)

[robert baccus]

All very good advice. Being a forester I was walking 5-10 miles per day when it hit me. The doctor told my wife(after the operation) to give or throw away every pair of shoes and boots I owned. ( that really hurt) and buy 2 sizes wider in the future. Dam--even my duck waders and hip boots. It did the trick in my case anywho.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

Roger - I suffered from of for over a year before getting a good set of custom orthotics made. Couldn't afford the podiatrists fees, and was referred to custom orthotics.com
They send a kit to take molds of your feet, then make custom orthotics to fit. been using them (four sets now) for over ten years now and all foot pain is completely eliminated.
they're not cushy or soft, slightly flexible, but very firm - molded from uhmwpe plastic, I think. I won't put on a pair of shoes without them. Best of all they are very reasonable. These guys make them for podiatrists.
Not connected to them in any way - just a very happy customer. By the way, a single set will last years - I still have the first set and have walked 8 to 10 miles a day on average every day.

[Jamie Straw]

I had a very severe case many years ago, it's a nasty thing! Arch support is critical -- we have an A+++ group of physical therapists here on the island, and my orthotics were made there. Stretching really helps (so does PT if the therapists are good) -- short Achilles and hamstrings will contribute to the problem, and if all you do is stand all day, and sit in the evenings, they'll be short! Ice (pack of frozen black-eyed peas under the foot.:eek: My husband had it also, in one foot, and before he went hunting last year, he had the injection -- it did help. The bad thing is, once a tendon or fascia gets strained, it's more vulnerable to stress even after healing. Trick is to address the problem immediately if it starts to hurt again.

[Stan Smith]

I got plantar faciitis from running--jumped from a 10k to a half marathon in a week. Duh! I had to get orthotics via a good podiatrist. Over time it went away and I had a 15 year stretch where I didn't wear the orthotics. I've had to wear them again for the last 4 years. My current podiatrist is a runner. I don't run any more due to disk problems in my neck and back. In summary, the orthotics take my pain away--without any meds. I use a plastic foot rocker when I have to stretch-exercise. I haven't used it for quite awhile since I wear my orthotics regularly.

I had a thin anti-fatigue mat that I used at the lathe. I realized that it was not enough to keep my feet from aching so I bought a thicker and better mat (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MWO3748/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). For me this mat is worth every penny. No more sore feet.

[Roger Chandler]

Well, just a small followup- I slightly mis-diagnosed myself thinking my pain was due to Plantar's Facsiitis, when today my Podiatrist said it is actually Achillies Tendonitis - although pain is similar, if not treated correctly/measures to mitigate recurrances, it can lead to degeneration of the achillies tendon.

So, it is wearing a night splint, taking pain meds, nsaid cream application to the site, stretching exercises, ice therapy and some new highly supportive athletic or hiking style shoes for everyday wear. Should be back at the lathe before long ... Gotta find the right pair of shoes first, and get swelling & tenderness subsided.

mentally, I am chomping at the bit....physically not so much! Maybe I just need to take my Father's day money and go shopping for lathe accessories and such to tide me over till then? I have had my eyes on a new JT Turning tools vac adapter kit for my lathe, and a Bestwood Tools Texas Big Bite Spur drive and a larger boring bar, and.....:D