Powermatic 45 or 3520A?

[Steve Mathews]

Seems like I'm bouncing around all over the place but but my choices of lathes are limited to my Southwest location. Up for consideration now are the Powermatic 45 for $800 and 3520A for $1200. The PM45 looks to be in better condition but is obviously an older lathe. The 3520A has some rust on the ways from being stored outside but is a newer design. I assume parts are still available for the 3520A, which is a plus. Any thoughts on which direction to take?

[Brad Adams]

3520 no questions asked. I would get it now.

[Don Frank]

No contest, 3520. I've owned both

[David Delo]

If it's just between these two machines.......no question the 3520A. IMHO, your still plucking down a good coin either way and your still just 1 breakdown away from having invested the same money that could have bought a brand new Grizzly 0766. Don't know your money situation but there's been a lot of changes recently in lathe offerings that (to me at least) make buying old iron not as attractive as it use to be. Maybe if the machines were sub-500 bucks, I'd have a different opinion.......

[daryl moses]

Yep, i'd go with the 3520 no hesitation.

[John K Jordan]

I'd go for the Powermatic as long as it works and the things that move are not bad. (I assume you have seen it in person.) Most external rust can be cleaned up.

If the rust has left a pitted surface in places there is a little trick I've used on cast iron with pits: clean well and fill with JB Weld then file flat! Can be made very smooth and lasts forever. Might not look pretty but neither does almost any lathe that gets a lot of use by people more interested in turning than polishing.

JKJ

[Steve Russell tucker]

Mr Jordan. That is fantastic Idea with the JB weld I don't know why I have never even considered that !!! thank you !!!!!

[William C Rogers]

3520A, no comparison to the PM 45. I sure that you will still be able to get parts. As a matter of fact you can still buy many parts for the PM 45 from powermatic. John address the rust issue very well.

[M Toupin]

The 3520 and PM45 are two different classes of machine, the 3520 series is a 1 1/4" X 8tpi spindle and the PM45 is a 1" X 8tpi. If you're partial to old arn I'd look for a PM90 which is quite a bit stouter. This pic shows the difference in the 1" X 8tpi spindles and a 1 1/2" X 8tpi on a PM90.

Mike

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[Steve Mathews]

Thanks everyone for the input. I made a commitment on the 3520A and will be driving some distance tomorrow to check it out. The lathe was stored outside for some time as evidenced by the light surface rust on the ways. The seller is not the original owner and has yet to see it run. However he was kind enough to make arrangements to find power for it so it can be put through its paces. I have little experience with wood lathes and this will be my first one. Is there anything that I should pay attention to during the check out?

[John K Jordan]

Mr Jordan. That is fantastic Idea with the JB weld I don't know why I have never even considered that !!! thank you !!!

Why thank you for saying so! I first thought of this when I had a big pit of porosity in a brand new cast iron tool rest. Very annoying. My other choices were to file it way down or try to get it replaced. The JB Weld made it smooth and has been on there for maybe 15 years. I've since used this on other pitted metal. The only issue is getting the surface clean first from any dirt and oil.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

There should be no play in the spindle, laterally or axially. It should turn easily by hand. The inside of the morse tapered hole in the spindle should be smooth but it can be cleaned of dirt and minor rust. Since it was stored outside check the through holes and cavities in the headstock and tailstock for insects and debris.

It would be nice if it ran smoothly and without bearing noise. (The belt may make some noise.) These need 220v. With the B model (I never used the A) you should turn the speed control all the way to the left, flip the direction switch up, power the lathe up with the big red switch pushed in, then pull the switch after the click, then turn up the speed control. It should smoothly accelerate and have a smooth speed adjustment through the range. The stop switch should decelerate the lathe to zero. The reversing switch should reverse the lathe direction - you can flip it even with the lathe running wide open. It is important that the VFD (the electronics box on the back) work properly since a replacement is very expensive.

I would hope that the tailstock quill could be adjusted smoothly, although if there is minor rust it can be probably disassembled, cleaned, and made to work smoothly. If you put a center with a point in both the headstock and tailstock and slide the tailstock up to the headstock the points should ideally touch exactly. If they are off a bit horizontally that's not usually anything to worry about since the entire bed is flexible and the points can usually be brought to close registration by simply shimming or adjusting the pads under the legs. (With minor rust on the ways the tailstock may be hard to slide but it might help to spray the bed with WD-40.)

You can get accessories if needed but the lathe should come with at least a drive spur, a revolving center for the tailstock, and a knockout bar.

I wouldn't be the least concerned with rust, chips, or discoloration of the rest of the lathe. You can repaint with the same color.

That's all I can think of now.

JKJ

[Steve Mathews]

Thanks John! I printed out your comments and suggestions and will it with me tomorrow.

I just received a few more pics from the seller that showed the VFD externally mounted in the back of the headstock. I originally thought this was internally mounted. The good news is it seems to have a digital readout for the speed. There is also a device that appears to be a compressor mounted on the back end of the headstock with a gauge mounted nearby. Seems to be a handy accessory. Overall I'm pretty excited about all of this

[John K Jordan]

Thanks John! I printed out your comments and suggestions and will it with me tomorrow.

I just received a few more pics from the seller that showed the VFD externally mounted in the back of the headstock. I originally thought this was internally mounted. The good news is it seems to have a digital readout for the speed. There is also a device that appears to be a compressor mounted on the back end of the headstock with a gauge mounted nearby. Seems to be a handy accessory. Overall I'm pretty excited about all of this

It's always externally mounted on the back. The VFD can display the speed but it's not too useful, or do you mean someone has added a speed control to the front of the lathe? Either way, no problem - some of the best turners I know with the 3520A with no speed display point out correctly that the speed number doesn't matter - you soon get the feel for what speed to use. I have the B model with the speed display and I hardly ever look at it.

What looks like a compressor MIGHT be a vacuum pump, and if so and you have the vacuum adapter you have the makings of a useful vacuum chuck for sometime in the future. A compressor would be handy too.

I forgot to mention that one of my favorite things is restoring old tools and things. This week I have been working on a 100 gallon farm fuel tank I hope to use for off-road diesel for my tractor, bobcat, and big mower. It came with an electric pump that was built in the mid 60s. Much is cast iron and there was rust inside and out. I buy PB Blaster by the gallon. I have the pump and motor completely disassembled, everything cleaned and working smoothly, made new seals, and just got the motor running. The hardest thing was figuring out how to disassemble things since some of the precision cast parts that had to be removed had been pressed into place - I had to devise a custom puller just to get to the rotor. Good clean fun!

JKJ

[Jamie Straw]

Light surface rust should be no problem at all. If you have a good straight-edge, take it with you to check the rails. Check that the tail-stock center and live center line up with each other. Listen for bearing noises. I'm no machine expert, but those three things for sure.

[Steve Mathews]

John - Here's a pic of what I thought was a compressor. I didn't know they had vacuum operated chucks. Maybe that's the chuck also shown in the pic. This is interesting.
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I too have an affinity for the old stuff. We have an old steel water tank on our mountain home in Arizona. My wife calls it the toilet paper roll because of the shape and its white paint. It makes for an interesting piece of yard art near the pool. I plan to put some function to it by using it for irrigation. I also have a John Deere 855 tractor that I had given thought to replacing but found the newer stuff much less appealing. The 855 is built like a tank and still runs good. If necessary I'll just work on it to keep it running. I would've liked to get an older wood lathe but pickings here in the Southwest are limited, unlike the rust belt. Besides, maybe the newer 3520A will allow me to concentrate on developing some wood turning skills instead of spending time with a restoration. That's the plan anyway.

[Steve Mathews]

If it's just between these two machines.......no question the 3520A. IMHO, your still plucking down a good coin either way and your still just 1 breakdown away from having invested the same money that could have bought a brand new Grizzly 0766. Don't know your money situation but there's been a lot of changes recently in lathe offerings that (to me at least) make buying old iron not as attractive as it use to be. Maybe if the machines were sub-500 bucks, I'd have a different opinion.......

After looking at the specs. on the Grizzly 0766 I'm beginning to see your point. For about $2k less than the cost of a new Powermatic 3520B you get a larger motor. I don't know how everything else compares though including quality. This has got me stumped.

[John K Jordan]

John - Here's a pic of what I thought was a compressor. I didn't know they had vacuum operated chucks. Maybe that's the chuck also shown in the pic. This is interesting.
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That white tube is a vacuum line that goes to a vacuum adapter currently connected to the back of the spindle at the left. Some will simply pull out but that one looks like you may have to loosen a screw. If so, there should be a hand wheel that you then fasten.

To use you put a special (usually home-made) vacuum chuck on the threaded end of the spindle and can hold platters and bowls and things for turning the base. Very handy to have for the future but if you get that lathe just remove it and save for a few years.

That looks like a normal scroll chuck on the lathe. If it comes with a vacuum system, chucks, and other tools you may have found yourself a real bargain. (BTW, I looked a the new Grizzly and got a PM instead. I think the PM is heaver duty and well made - and has a very good long-time reputation with amazing woodturners. But I'm sure you will be happy with either; both are far more lathe than most people start with!)

There are lots of places to read up on vacuum chucking, for example I like this guy: http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/vacuumchucking.htm

JKJ

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

it appears that the lathe includes a Oneway vacuum adapter. it installs permanently in place of the lathe's handwheel.

I agree that the chuck looks like a standard scroll (4-jaw) chuck.

[John K Jordan]

... Oneway vacuum adapter. it installs permanently in place of the lathe's handwheel.


Interesting. I have a Oneway vacuum adapter that looks like that for the PM3520B. I remove it and connect the handwheel. I can't see how to use the knockout bar if the adapter is on the lathe. Is it possible to use the knockout bar?

JKJ

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

hmm, I have one but have never installed it. I thought it was permanent. maybe I need to spend more time in the shop. :)

[Steve Mathews]

I picked up the PM 3520A today. This is one heavy piece of machinery. One of its other advantages is that it can be easily broken down into manageable sections without much trouble. Can't wait to get turning with it. :)

[John K Jordan]

hmm, I have one but have never installed it. I thought it was permanent. maybe I need to spend more time in the shop. :)

It looks like JT Turning tools has a a removable vacuum adapter to avoid the change-out.
http://www.jtturningtools.com/PM3520-adapter

JKJ

[Steve Mathews]

I picked up the Powermatic 3520A today. This is one heavy piece of machinery. Another good thing about it is that it can be disassembled fairly easy into more manageable sections. I can't wait to get started turning.

[John K Jordan]

I picked up the PM 3520A today. This is one heavy piece of machinery.

You got that right. I had two people helping when I disassembled and moved a PM3520B from a guy's house to a trailer, but I unloaded and set it up myself. I had to use dollys and a floor jack and make some supports hold things in place to get it back together. The mass sure is nice when turning things that are a little unbalanced.

When you get it together and the ways clean, I like to adjust all four feet until the ways of the lathe are as level as possible, although that is not strictly necessary. Then slide the tailstock up to the headstock with some kind of point center in each, tighten the tailstock, and check the alignment of the two points. If the points don't touch precisely, you can probably fix it by adjusting (if it came with the leg adjusters) or shimming just one leg.

For example if the tailstock point is slightly to the front of the headstock point (to the left if looking towards the headstock from above). raise just the right front leg a little. The entire cast iron bed will actually twist a bit to bring the points into alignment.

JKJ

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

It looks like JT Turning tools has a a removable vacuum adapter to avoid the change-out.
http://www.jtturningtools.com/PM3520-adapter

JKJ

yeah, I know...I bought one of those too.

:D