Joinery Planes

[Christopher Charles]

Hello all,

I've been on a long, slow slide down the hill for a while now. I have recently been adding joinery planes to the arsenal as my aversion to my router grows stronger. I thought it might make a good topic for discussion. So...

Which joinery planes do you have?
Which do you use the most?
What's the best place to start?
Which types are just as good if vintage and decently tuned and which are best to wait and buy premium?
Which do you regret buying because it just lays there?

Thanks,
C

[Jim Koepke]

Which joinery planes do you have?

I think of my large bench planes as joinery planes. After all, the #7 & #8 are called jointers.

Among others that may be considered as "joinery planes" are rabbet planes including; a Record #778, a pair of Stanley #98 & #99 side rabbet planes and a a few combination planes like the Stanley #45, #50 & #55. Also have a #93 shoulder plane and a #140 skew rabbet block plane.


Which do you use the most?

My #6 or #5 do a lot of my edge jointing work.

The #45 gets a lot of work. My #50 is set up for box and drawer bottom slots. I use the side rabbets often. The #778 is also used for rabbeting often.


What's the best place to start?

Not sure what is meant by this question. If you are brave, the Stanley #45 is capable of a lot of work. It is a bit tricky in the beginning. A good fenced rabbet plane may be an easier start. The Record #778 is superior to the Stanley #78. A modern plane from LN or LV might be a better choice. The Stanley #45 can cut rabbets without difficulty. It can also do a lot a fenced rabbet can not do.


Which types are just as good if vintage and decently tuned and which are best to wait and buy premium?

Different folks will give different answers to this. It really depends on your patience and ability to fettle.


Which do you regret buying because it just lays there?

That would be my Stanley #90 bull nose rabbet plane. Even more regrettable would be a Stanley #75. I sold all of the ones I had because they just didn't work for me. At least I can get the #90 to work.

My side rabbet planes get used often for trimming and such. My suggestion would be to have a left and a right hand version instead of the single tool for both sides. Switching the depth stop back and forth would be a bit of a hassle in my opinion.

[lowell holmes]

[QUOTE=Jim Koepke;2574062]

Even more regrettable would be a Stanley #75. :mad:

I agree!

I have skew rabbet planes and an antique wooden plow plane.

I also have the Japanese plow plane that sells for less than $100. It does a credible job. It is the Mujingfang.

[Robert Engel]

Here are my joinery planes:
Medium shoulder plane (LV), Large shoulder plane (LN), Router plane (Stanley 71), Side Rabbet Plane (WR), Rabbet block plane (LN).

But I don't think that's what your after, is it?

I think you're referring to bench planes. They include only the following:
4 WoodRiver, 4 1/2 LN, 62 BUJack LN, 6 WR, 7 WR.

These planes cover what I need to do very nicely. I don't do much hand prep I do not have a #5.

Which do you use the most?I actually use the #6 more than I ever thought I would. The 4 1/2 is a close second.

What's the best place to start?My recommendation is start out with a #4 and a #6. These two planes will cover a lot of ground. As for vintage, vs. premium, lots of guys will disagree with me here, but having gone through several Stanley's, (paying too much for them, upgrading blades, buying missing parts, spending time to de rust, etc) I finally tried a WoodRiver and immediately could feel and see the difference. I think they are a good plane that performs quite comparably to a premium plane for 1/2 the price. Yes, they are made in China, yes they might be a rip off of LN (as if LN didn't copy anybody, right?) but all in all, if you look at the prices on Ebay for vintage Stanely, Bailey or Record, you may decide (as I did) to opt for a new plane for often just a little more money. IMO the WR has a better blade and cap iron, better machining, ht adj. screw, and heavier. If you don't like it you can take it back!! Chasing the elusive $10 Stanley by running through yard sales, flea markets and estate sales is just not for me.

In the final analysis a tool is a tool you should always buy the best you can afford because a poor quality tool will be a stumbling block to developing your skills as a ww'er.

Which types are just as good if vintage and decently tuned and which are best to wait and buy premium?
I think just about all of them can be tuned up to perform very satisfactorily. As I just said, tho, finding them for a reasonable price is something else.

Which do you regret buying because it just lays there?
Stanley 78. Its just not a very good tool.
I also have several wood molding planes I have never used.

[Frederick Skelly]

Couple dado planes
Several rabbet planes
Some hollows & rounds
Couple router planes
Plow plane

I use the plow and the rabbets most.

Which to buy first depends on what work you like to do. I build boxes and small furniture.

I enjoy hunting for tools so bought most of mine used and tuned them. Learned a great deal.

[paul cottingham]

Planes I use most: hands down, my veritas low angle Jack. Easily my most used plane. With a few extra blades ground at a variety of angles and a toothed blade, the low angle Jack will meet most of your needs.
Next most used no4 smother, followed by my jointer.
Planes i think are indispensable but don't use all the time: plow, router, Fillister, shoulder (I like my large, lots of folks prefer the medium.)
i can't imagine doing joinery without these planes; bear in mind, I am a Neander for the most part.
im sure I missed something.

[Steve Voigt]

First, unless I am much mistaken, the OP does not mean bench planes, he means (as he clearly said) joinery planes.

Second, I like what Fred said above -- he uses the plow and the rabbets the most. It is curious to see things like shoulder and router planes listed first. I guess I would call those "joinery adjusting" planes rather than true joinery planes. Which is not to imply that they're not useful--they definitely are--but they'd be low on my list. What you need more than anything to do joinery is a way to cut rabbets and a way to cut grooves. So those should be first.

There are lots of directions you could go, and it probably isn't helpful for me to list all the options. I guess the one thing that occurs to me that might be useful is this: If you just want to get your feet wet, you don't have to go with all the bells and whistles. For example, a moving fillister, or metal versions like a Stanley 45/ Record 43 or 44/ Veritas skew rabbet, that's the bells and whistles way, and those are all great tools. But you can also cut any rabbet you want with a plane old rabbet plane and a batten. A plow plane, whether metal or wood, is the bells and whistles way to cut grooves. But a drawer bottom plane that cuts a 1/4" groove, whether purchased or homemade, can take care of probably 90% of your grooving needs.

FWIW, I go the bells & whistles route, but I didn't start that way. I started with a wooden square rabbet and a wooden drawer bottom plane. Now I mostly use a Greaves moving fillister and a Bensen and Crannel screw arm plow, both mid-late 19th c.

[Mike Holbrook]

I am thinking that since you mention your aversion to a router, assuming you are talking about an electric router that you are asking about actual joinery planes. I understand, my buddy lost part of a finger to a router table.

I have: LV medium shoulder, LV small plow, LV router, LV skew rabbit. The skew rabbit is new but I have used it a good deal. If I had to toss one it would probably be the shoulder plane as I don't use it much, more often using a sharp chisel, especially since I invested in Usu-nomi- Japanese paring chisels.

Many will feel that: jointing, making larger mortises and tenons, grooves dadoes... is a major part of the joinery they do. This is why they will mention what you may think of as bench planes, which they probably use for many of those jobs. I think you will also find that many use chisels or small saws to make "joinery", in lieu of joinery planes.

[John Schtrumpf]

*** Which joinery planes do you have?
They are all Veritas:
plow plane
jack rabbet
left skew block
miter
side rabbet
shoulder planes: medium, small, miniature, bullnose
router planes: large, medium, small, miniature

*** Which do you use the most?
plow: grooves, rabbets, tung and groove
jack rabbet: jointing and beveling edges
skew block: rabbets, relief bevels, shooting, and as a block plane
miter: shooting

*** What's the best place to start?
If you are only hand tools, plow plane, grooves and rabbets enable many types of joinery.

*** Which types are just as good if vintage and decently tuned and which are best to wait and buy premium?
I can't say, I have a couple of my grandfather's woodies, but they aren't tuned.

*** Which do you regret buying because it just lays there?
I really only need one router plane, but I don't regret the other sizes.

[Patrick Chase]

That would be my Stanley #90 bull nose rabbet plane. Even more regrettable would be a Stanley #75. I sold all of the ones I had because they just didn't work for me. At least I can get the #90 to work.

I still think you've got Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to the 55... :-)

[Derek Cohen]

Hello all,

I've been on a long, slow slide down the hill for a while now. I have recently been adding joinery planes to the arsenal as my aversion to my router grows stronger. I thought it might make a good topic for discussion. So...

Which joinery planes do you have?
Which do you use the most?
What's the best place to start?
Which types are just as good if vintage and decently tuned and which are best to wait and buy premium?
Which do you regret buying because it just lays there?

Thanks,
C

Christopher, a LOT can be done with chisels, but the joinery planes I use are ..

LV Large router plane (gets a lot of use when grooving or rebating on curved work, and finishing hinges and dado/dovetails)

LV Small plow plane

LV Small shoulder plane (largely for shaping and fine tuning rebates and mouldings, partly for tuning shoulders)

LV Skew Rabbet Plane

LN side rabbet planes for widening grooves (I have a LV as well but only the one, and both hands are needed to follow the grain)

LN joinery float (fine tuning tenon cheeks)

Stanley #79 side rabbet plane converted into sliding dovetail plane

Edited to add shooting board and plane.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I still think you've got Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to the 55... :-)

I do not understand this comment.

My #55 is used more than my #90 bull nose. (The 'bull nose' descriptor is included because my other #90, steel incased rabbet, is used often.)

Before suggesting someone consider a #55 I would suggest they be able to use the #45 without difficulty. They are similar but the #55 is a much more difficult plane to use. The #45 has some people convinced it was a cruel hoax and the #55 was made as an attempt by Stanley to get into the boat anchor business. I have found both to be very useful tools once one learns their finer points.

jtk

[ken hatch]

I still think you've got Stockholm Syndrome when it comes to the 55... :-)

Patrick, why not cut to the chase, Thanks for my day's hehe moment.

ken

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a dado plane and dovetail plane pretty regularly. Working on more but they do take time.

[Derek Cohen]

Brian, surely you use more than these two planes for all your joinery? :)

This is actually an interesting exercise to recognise which tools we do use/need for all joinery tasks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tony Shea]

I personally think a decent rabbet plane and plow plane is critical to a hand tool workshop. And i honestly think Lee Valley versions of these two tools are well worth the $ they cost. For the price these two tools really can't be beat. I am personally a big LN fan which is in large part due to the fact they are relatively local to me so I really wish they would snap out of it and get their version of the plow plane to market. Having said this I still think I would have chosen the LV plow over the LN due to the cost and usefulness of the tool. The next tool after these two tools is a router plane. I really like having a router plane in my arsenal. Most jobs that a router plane does can be done with other more common tools such as chisels, saws, etc. But the router can be much more accurate in these situations.

[Brian Holcombe]

Brian, surely you use more than these two planes for all your joinery? :)

This is actually an interesting exercise to recognise which tools we do use/need for all joinery tasks.

Regards from Perth

Derek

That's what all the saws and chisels are for. :D

I have a shoulder plane and router plane but I don't consider them 'joinery' planes really.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brian

I left off my HNT Gordon 1/2" dado plane, which you also have. This is great for through dados. However, I use a router plane (along with saw and chisel) to create stopped dados and stopped sliding dovetails. What do you do?

The question comes down to 'what constitutes a "joinery" plane' .. since many planes/tools do double-duty in the shop? Is there such thing as a "must have" tool for joinery? What plane could one absolutely not do without? As I mentioned before, a chisel (and as you mentioned, a saw) are fundamental, and can do it all, but some planes make the job easier (a case in point is a side rabbet plane - hardly used but so useful when needed - or, as you have demonstrated in your builds, dado and dovetail planes).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Christopher Charles]

Thanks all for the replies. Derek, yes you've reflected the intent of my original question well--I'm interested in see what other's value when creating joinery. The question was posed in part b/c I just sprung for the LV skew rabbet plane after looooong holding out. I have other planes that can do it's function, but am hopeful I've spent well :) Also, the topic seems to be one that has not gotten much traffic.

FWIW, I've a LV med shoulder plane, a Record 043 for plowing, a LV large router plane and the skew rabbet in the mail. I got the shoulder plane first and still use it in many situations for joint fitting but not really for joint making (as pointed out earlier).

The task that I'm still puzzling over and working to optimize is making dados but haven't yet done enough by hand to have settled into to knowing whether a dedicated plane(s) would be worth it.

Thanks again,
C

[paul cottingham]

You will love the skew rabbit. It takes practice to master, and you will be very happy with the results. Don't bother with two. Just buy the one for whichever is your dominant hand. As an aside, I really really like my LV medium router plane. I reach for it most often now, as I find it the best combo of size and utility.

one thing I don't think anyone has mentioned is a block plane. I use a LV apron plane and a LV block. If I was starting over, I would buy a LN block, as it is a little smaller than the LV block. I really like the apron plane for small trimming chores.

block planes are very personal. Some people never use them. Other folks can't live without them. I'm somewhere in between.

the larger LV plow may have more utility in the long run for you, as it certainly can take a larger selection of blades, and the handle is much more comfortable.

[Kees Heiden]

Not so glamourous, but here are two of my go-to joinery planes.

338916

The Record 044. Most probably the best dedicated plowplane ever designed! Easy to use, keeps its settings without a hitch, comes with a nice set of cutters that are easilly sharpened, easy to adjust. It's a pitty it isn't made anymore like this. One could of course cut a groove with saws and chisels but I don't think anyone would really want to.

And the pretty modern Nooitgedagt rabbeting plane happens to be the best performing one in my collection. I've got half a drawer full of rabbets and fillisters in various variations, but this one is always sharp, removes wood in a hurry and is easy to adjust. Again, making a rabbet with chisels is doable (better then grooves) but you would need a rabbeting or shouder plane anyway if you want the surface to look presentable.

[Brian Holcombe]

Hi Brian

I left off my HNT Gordon 1/2" dado plane, which you also have. This is great for through dados. However, I use a router plane (along with saw and chisel) to create stopped dados and stopped sliding dovetails. What do you do?

The question comes down to 'what constitutes a "joinery" plane' .. since many planes/tools do double-duty in the shop? Is there such thing as a "must have" tool for joinery? What plane could one absolutely not do without? As I mentioned before, a chisel (and as you mentioned, a saw) are fundamental, and can do it all, but some planes make the job easier (a case in point is a side rabbet plane - hardly used but so useful when needed - or, as you have demonstrated in your builds, dado and dovetail planes).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Much the same, I use the saw and router plane for stopped dados and dovetails.

My latest blog post details those points specifically, if you would, take a look.

[Allen Hunt]

Hi Christopher,

I have 4 dado planes. HNT Gordon in 1/8, 1/4 & 1/2 inch. Auburn dado 1 inch. Love dado planes! Love the anti tearout anvantage skew blade gives you. Use as a shoulder plane too.

I have the left and right HNT Gordon side rebate planes.

A Stanley 46, which I higly reccomend for a plow/dado because of the skewed blade.

LN large and small router planes.

LV left and right skew rebate planes.

LV left small plow to compliment my Stanley 46.

Something 400 5/8 inch shoulder plane.

LN large shoulder.

Stanley 78. Its okay.

Stanley 75. Not very useful to me.

LN block rabbet. Not skewed.

LN 10 1/4 big ole rebate plane! Hey I might do some timber framing someday, you never know...

I definately fall in the camp of "more is better" from a flexibility and fun of owning/using point of view.

Allen

[Allen Hunt]

Oh i forgot my latest and unsed as of yet, the LV left shooting plane!!!

Allen

[Matthew Hills]

If you want only a single (admittedly big) dent in our wallet:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=74200&cat=1,230,41182

Matt

[Christopher Charles]

Kees, plenty of glamour there for me :)

Brian, as always, many thanks for taking the time to share your work and knowledge.

I'll refine my question just a bit more and come at it from the "anarchist's toolchest" perspective. When starting out, one of the things I found daunting about joinery planes is the cost to apparent use ratio. So, for those looking to get into the game with minimum early investment, any suggestions on minimum kit or no-brainer starting places? Shoulder planes and router planes seem to be the most recommended by magazines, but...

[Christopher Charles]

Matthew,

I saw that when last on the LV site and _almost_ tried to convince a friend into going in with me as a way to save on an upgrade to my plow. Reality prevailed, however...

[Patrick Chase]

A Stanley 46, which I higly reccomend for a plow/dado because of the skewed blade.


I've been curiously watching to see if anybody would recommend the 46. I don't have one, but if I did spring for a classic Stanley combo plane that would probably be it.

[Brian Holcombe]

Kees, plenty of glamour there for me :)

Brian, as always, many thanks for taking the time to share your work and knowledge.

I'll refine my question just a bit more and come at it from the "anarchist's toolchest" perspective. When starting out, one of the things I found daunting about joinery planes is the cost to apparent use ratio. So, for those looking to get into the game with minimum early investment, any suggestions on minimum kit or no-brainer starting places? Shoulder planes and router planes seem to be the most recommended by magazines, but...

My pleasure! I find Dado planes incredibly important, they can double as a rabbet plane in a pinch (mine does all the time), they require a batten which forces the panel flat while the groove is being cut which comes in handy at times, especially for thin material.

Use is always dependent on the kind of work that you'll end up doing, if you are doing cabinet work I think you'll find them hard to replace.

[Kees Heiden]

Dado's are really easilly made with saw and chisel, but a router plane defenitely makes cleaning up the bottom a lot easier.

My first joinery plane would be a plow plane, because making grooves in any other way with handtools is a bunch more work.

And then a router plane and a rabbeting plane.

[Jim Koepke]

I'll refine my question just a bit more and come at it from the "anarchist's toolchest" perspective. When starting out, one of the things I found daunting about joinery planes is the cost to apparent use ratio. So, for those looking to get into the game with minimum early investment, any suggestions on minimum kit or no-brainer starting places? Shoulder planes and router planes seem to be the most recommended by magazines, but...

From the "anarchist's toolchest" perspective a Stanley #45 may have been one of the original "anarchist's" tools.

Today's version would be the LV small plow. It plows, beads, cuts rabbets and has tongue and grooving blades.

I think a router is more useful than a shoulder plane. Most of the work a shoulder plane can do can be done by other planes. My shoulder plane mostly does clean up work following other tools.

My side rabbets also do a lot of clean up for other tools. They are very handy when fitting some joinery and can get into some very tight places.

jtk

[Nicholas Lawrence]

The first two joinery planes I acquired were a Stanley 78 and a Stanley 71. I now have a combination/plow I use a fair amount, but the router and rabbet are still the ones who see the most use.

There are just so many situations where the router in particular is very handy. There was a comment above about the 78 not being a very good tool. I don't know about the ones they are making now, but the old one I have works fine. A side rabbet does not get used that often, but it has really made my life easier on occasion.

[Joshua Hancock]

Probably one of the most amazing things ( and easy) was when I learned to use my wooden rabbet plane with my fingers as the fence (and a good knife line). Roy Underhill recently did an episode, with a guest I cant remember right now, that featured this (along with how to make a molding plane) and it became pretty indispensible and faster than setting up my electric router. I find myself also reaching for my router plane and #45 quite a bit more these days as my skill with them increases. The ole electric router is more and more being relegated to being a substitute for the molding plane set I cannot afford.

[Mike Cherry]

LV and LN router plane - used to clean bottoms of dadoes. I cut dadoes with chisels and do a few light passes with the router plane. I like the LV better. Need to sell the LN.

LV small plow - Use it all the time for grooves.

LV medium shoulder - clean up tenon shoulders. Rarely use it. Again I prefer chisels.

LN rabbet block - Just got this. Not sure how much I'll use it. I'm hoping it will replace my shoulder plane and be my general fine tuning joinery plane.


I believe that good chiseling skills will never let you down and so I prefer to use a chisel for almost everything. I feel confident about my skills with a chisel and I continue to get faster with them. Too bad I spent so much money on these planes when all I really needed were some chisels. This all came about when I realized that stopped and captive grooves, dadoes, and rebates just about have to be done by chisels.

[Adam Stevens2]

I have:

LV router plane - love it

Stanley 78 rabbet plane - it works well, but I find it uncomfortable to use after a while

Wooden moving filister - can't recall the maker, haven't really turned it loose yet. May replace the 78 if I can get the hang of it

2x wooden plow planes, a screw arm and wedge arm - the screw arm threads are a little worn so I've been turning to the wedge arm more often. Finicky to adjust but works well once it's dialed in.

3/4" dado plane which I rarely use - just haven't gotten the hang of, but mainly because I seem to have wedge the iron in so tightly that I haven't been able to get it out! :o

I feel that the router plane would be a good place to start due to its versatility - it can clean up any joints made using a saw and chisel, while the others are a little more specialised. And it works great for those stopped grooves and dados once the dimensions of the joint are established.