Asian lathe Manufacturers and profit markups

[Roger Chandler]

I like the new Laguna Revo lineup of lathes, which is basically the twin brother of the Grizzly G0800 and G0799. They are manufactured by Harvey Industries Co. LTD. Here is a pic...

http://image.made-in-china.com/45f3j00faETSNHPmruD/T-60-Variable-Speed-24-X-48-Wood-Lathe.jpg

http://harveywoodworking.en.made-in-china.com/product/sBnQfcOYHTrw/China-T-60-Variable-Speed-24-X-48-Wood-Lathe.html

I think it is interesting that the cost to Laguna or Grizzly is listed as FOB $1-3060 USD. Wonder if bulk orders of hundreds get the $1 price? :D:D;)

[Brian Kent]

I love the low center of gravity. The feature sets look great.

[Bob Bouis]

It does look nice.

My impression is that Grizzly's markup is pretty darn high. Every time I've considered buying from them, I find a better deal on a better brand somewhere else.

[Curtis Myers]

I like the new Laguna Revo lineup of lathes, which is basically the twin brother of the Grizzly G0800 and G0799. They are manufactured by Harvey Industrial Co. LTD. Here is a pic...



http://harveywoodworking.en.made-in-china.com/product/sBnQfcOYHTrw/China-T-60-Variable-Speed-24-X-48-Wood-Lathe.html



I never herd of Harvey Industrial but that is a very impressive lathe with a great bang for the buck.

[Brian Kent]

It does look nice.

My impression is that Grizzly's markup is pretty darn high. Every time I've considered buying from them, I find a better deal on a better brand somewhere else.

Wow. Name one. I don't mean that sarcastically.

[Doug Ladendorf]

That Harvey lathe must be the expensive one. It's got turbo. :rolleyes:

[Roger Chandler]

That Harvey lathe must be the expensive one. It's got turbo. :rolleyes:Vrooom, Vrooom!!! :D

[Brice Rogers]

I took a look at the spindle to floor height specs:
G0800 - 46"
G0799 - 44"
G0760 (those shipped up from introduction to until recently) - 48" (or 47-13/16 if you want to be more precise)
G0760b (I added the b to signify that Grizz apparently is starting to ship shorter legs) - 46-1/4

So it would seem that Harvey is using the same legs for both the similar models, much like the G0733 and G0766.

Does anyone know what the cost would be to get the shorter (and newer) legs on the G0766 ?

[Bob Bouis]

Wow. Name one. I don't mean that sarcastically.

Most recently, I wanted a high-end bandsaw. I was quoted a lower price for a Minimax MM20 than the Grizzly "Extreme" 19". When you factor in shipping, Grizzly's 20" spiral-head planer with its off-brand inserts was basically the same price as the Jet on sale.

There were other examples, but I can't really remember the details, just that I never actually thought the Grizzly ended up being the best deal, all things considered.

[Brian Kent]

You got a Minimax MM20 for $1,675. Congratulations!
And under $2675 for the Jet JWP-208HH delivered, right? Fantastic. Best I can find is $3,369 or $2863 plus shipping during the 15% off sales. You did great.

[Thom Sturgill]

That triangular boss on the side - Bed extension mount? Holes look the same as those at the head end.

[John Keeton]

Yes, Thom, that is one of the several locations for mounting of the bed extension.

[Bob Bouis]

You got a Minimax MM20 for $1,675. Congratulations!
And under $2675 for the Jet JWP-208HH delivered, right? Fantastic. Best I can find is $3,369 or $2863 plus shipping during the 15% off sales. You did great.
I meant the "Extreme" Grizzly bandsaw [easy to confuse these adjectives], which is about $3700. And, yes, the MM20 was less than that. But I ended up getting an MM24 (which was more). And Jet's price includes all shipping costs, while Grizzly has hidden extra charges for liftgate and even more extra for inside delivery. Ultimately, the prices were not significantly different, and the Grizzly would be far more after buying a set of replacement carbide cutters.

[Keith Outten]

Bob,

How can Grizzly hide the charges for liftgate and inside delivery?

[Bob Bouis]

Bob,

How can Grizzly hide the charges for liftgate and inside delivery?
When someone colloquially talks about "hidden charges," they don't mean the charges are literally hidden, just that they're not clearly advertised. As an illustration, the number Brian quoted ($2675) for the Grizzly planer is the current [sale] price with the current advertised freight, which doesn't include liftgate or delivery past the curb.

IIRC those two add an extra $100-$125 to the shipping cost.

I don't know whether the shippers Grizzly uses would move the pallet into your garage if you just paid for the liftgate (IIRC, that's about $35), but Grizzly says they won't. With Jet/PM, when asked they said it was included in the free shipping they advertise, and they have done it for me.

[Brian Kent]

OK, I understand, not the "Extreme 19" but the 19" Ultimate. And the planer does come with carbide cutters.

The Minimax is about 80 lbs lighter so I don't know where that added mass goes on the Grizzly. I'm satisfied that you got good deals, but I think Grizzly usually wins on the markup challenge. Then a completely different question that I can't approach through a catalogue is what they are to use.

[Bob Bouis]

And the planer does come with carbide cutters.

It does, but they'll have to be replaced eventually, and Grizzly wants $70 for ten of them. The planer takes about a hundred for a total cost of more than $700. That's a spectacular markup. I don't know whether the cutters really are proprietary or whether they're just charging excessively for them, but for me it was a real consideration.

About the minimax, it may or may not be lighter. Their specs are all over the place. I know for a fact that the MM24 is about a hundred pounds lighter than advertised. Also, remember that "markup" is an added charge over what something costs the seller, and the Italian-made bandsaw almost certainly costs Minimax a lot more than the Grizzly pays for its Asian saws.

[Brian Kent]

Back to the original post, there is always this temptation to move up just one or two or three more steps. I am still headed towards the G0766 and a high end hollowing system & better grinder. When I see the next level up - this line whether through Laguna or Grizzly or anyone else sets my mind going. I will probably end up where I am headed, especially with the new, lower castings for the G0766 legs, but I have to ask myself if it would be better to get the whole package this Fall of lathe, hollower, and grinder, or spend it all on a larger lathe.

Thanks for the temptation :)

[Brice Rogers]

John, if a person attached the bed extension on the front, would it be used in conjunction with the headstock being rotated 90 degrees? If not, what would be it's purpose/benefit ?

[Roger Chandler]

Back to the original post, there is always this temptation to move up just one or two or three more steps. I am still headed towards the G0766 and a high end hollowing system & better grinder. When I see the next level up - this line whether through Laguna or Grizzly or anyone else sets my mind going. I will probably end up where I am headed, especially with the new, lower castings for the G0766 legs, but I have to ask myself if it would be better to get the whole package this Fall of lathe, hollower, and grinder, or spend it all on a larger lathe.

Thanks for the temptation :)

Brian......I am not trying to steer you in any particular direction. Just some thoughts to consider, however. There is nothing that the above lathe I pictured will do that the G0766 won't, with maybe the exception of an inch+ larger blank. I have found that the G0766 will handle most anything I want to throw at it, with the exception of perhaps a large wall hanging, because it has the available bed extension [for substantial $$$ of course!] The big features are all there, except the cage, which most turners remove anyway, and do not use. And how often would you likely use the comparator arms? It is hard for me to say, since I have not seen the G0800 or G0799 up close and personal, but it may have just a bit more refined finish on it, but I can tell you the G0766 is nicely machined, and is a good bit more refined than the G0698 18/47 lathe I had previously.

Power is the same, and even though there were questions regarding the stats, I think that was due at least in part to cut and paste techniques on the manual that Grizzly used parts of from other manuals. Sparky Paessler tested his and found out the output amps were more than stated in the manual on his G0766 at 10+ amps. I think that manual states no load or something, but Sparky [being an electrical engineer] was able to satisfy the question in my mind, at least.

With the features and electronics that compare to much higher cost lathes such as the one here, or the PM 3520b, it is the value of the market. Those savings will go a long way towards the other tool upgrades you speak of, but I will admit, that having a tricked out lathe with all the bells and whistles is pretty cool thing! :cool:

[Doug Ladendorf]

John, if a person attached the bed extension on the front, would it be used in conjunction with the headstock being rotated 90 degrees? If not, what would be it's purpose/benefit ?

I had the same question. Does the headstock rotate, slide or both?

[Roger Chandler]

I believe the purpose of the front mounting extension is to allow work on the backside of the piece without having to reverse it.

[John Keeton]

While I have not had an occasion to locate my extension on the front side, I believe Roger's explanation is correct. The headstock slides, but does not rotate.

[David Delo]

I believe the purpose of the front mounting extension is to allow work on the backside of the piece without having to reverse it.Ala Sweet 16 from Robust

[Brice Rogers]

Roger, I hate to appear overly dense, but having a bed extension mounted there (and not being able to slide it left and right) would seem to have limited utility. I don't see how it would give me better access to the left side of a vessel I was turning than I would get from moving the banjo. Maybe it allows me to turn something about 2" large in diameter because I am not turning over the banjo. I know that I'm missing something....

[Roger Chandler]

Roger, I hate to appear overly dense, but having a bed extension mounted there (and not being able to slide it left and right) would seem to have limited utility. I don't see how it would give me better access to the left side of a vessel I was turning than I would get from moving the banjo. Maybe it allows me to turn something about 2" large in diameter because I am not turning over the banjo. I know that I'm missing something....

Brice....not that it cannot be done the way we do it now of course [moving the banjo] but the lathe designers just figured out another feature I suppose, but if you think about it, with the mounting point right at the end of the spindle the way it is, access to the back side of say a bowl would be had without any danger of wobble, etc because the turning would never get moved and would be able to be completed without reversing........that would have to be with a recess hold for the chuck in the first place, unless one just wanted a straight sided foot and used the tenon for that. {not asthetically pleasing in my book}

One thing about having an extension mounted there.........it would always seem to be getting in my way I think in my very small shop. But one might be able to lean on it there if perhaps one desired to do so or got tired? :D:rolleyes:

[John Keeton]

It may be worth noting that the bed extension can be relocated in just a few minutes. It is an easy task, so moving it for one project would not be that big of a deal. I got the bed extension for my 1836 so I would have the capacity for turning large platters off the tailstock end of the lathe, but I appreciate having other uses available.

[Roger Chandler]

It may be worth noting that the bed extension can be relocated in just a few minutes. It is an easy task, so moving it for one project would not be that big of a deal. I got the bed extension for my 1836 so I would have the capacity for turning large platters off the tailstock end of the lathe, but I appreciate having other uses available.

If I had the bed extension, I would also use it like you mention, John.....off the tailstock end to do large platters. I wish I had more room in my shop at present, so no room to turn off the end, but in time to come that will change, and who knows, I may just acquire my dream lathe [whatever that may be at the time! ;) ]

[Steve Nix]

Another thing to consider is warranty. Grizzly only has a one year warranty vs. jets 5 year. I couldn't find the Harvey warranty but guess it's only one year.

[Michael Schneider]

It is important to remember that most tools are imported from asia these days.

If by markups, you mean (Sale Cost - Product Price). Don't forget the cost of:
- Warranty service
- Spare Parts inventory
- Dealer Network (ex. woodcraft has to make a profit when it sells a jet or powermatic)
- Customer Support
- Engineering (Some companies modify orig products offered and spec better components)
- Quality Control - sometimes having someone in your employ in the factory (part or full time)








It does look nice.

My impression is that Grizzly's markup is pretty darn high. Every time I've considered buying from them, I find a better deal on a better brand somewhere else.