Dilemma for a new turner: cheap used Jet 1220 v. new (on sale) Jet 1221VS lathe

[David Stoner]

I'm new to turning and am buying my first lathe, which I expect will have to last a good while. If I were to buy new, it would probably be the Jet 1221VS, which is currently on sale ($700) at Woodcraft. But someone (from whom I've bought tools before) just offered to sell me his lightly used Jet 1220 (non-VS) lathe and extension bed (but no stand) for $400. I would like a stand, but stands for the 1220 are unavailable; stands for the 1221VS are apparently nice but very expensive. I have the luxury of being able to afford the new lathe, but I don't want to waste money and the used lathe seems to be by far the better deal. Still, I want to be sure I make the better long-term investment. Any advice?

[Bruce Wilson]

Disclaimer, I'm pretty new to this too....but...
My opinion...if the lathe is going to have to last you a good while, go ahead and start busting the bank early and get the VS. I looked at the 1221, ended up getting the Delta. I use the VS all the time. Slower for roughing out, faster for finishing and sanding. You're gonna get sucked into the vortex and want more accessories, more gouges, more chucks, more centers, more wood, more chuck jaws, more wood.....more more more. Just go ahead and jump in and get the VS.

[Brice Rogers]

Having a variable speed is really nice. My first lathe required a pulley change to change speeds. The slowest speed was 950 rpm. Too fast and potentially dangerous for an out-of-balance bowl. But if all you are going to do is smaller spindles, then maybe you could live with belt changing. If I were you I'd go for the variable speed.

[David Bassett]

I can't say what's best for you. But... two points:

(1) moving belts to change speeds, at least on small'ish lathes, isn't hard.

(2) to me, variable speed is worth a *lot*. It is much easier and you can set speeds exactly right for your piece, tool, and comfort combination. It's probably most valuable to a beginner, because you can't predict how each speed will work. (E.g. I'm a beginner, maybe advanced beginner now, and I enjoy starting the lathe slower than what I expect to use and speeding it up until things are working well. If I ever get it to the point I'm starting to "clinch", I can easily turn it back down just a little.)

[Brian Kent]

On the 1220 the minimum speed is 500. This really limits the size of the piece you can turn.
One the 1221 the minimum speed is 60. Much safer when you put the 10-12" hunk of wood on. You don't know how balanced it is until you try it, and the velocity at 500 is way more than the velocity at 60 rpm. Also, the energy of a moving object is the mass times the square of the velocity, so the energy at the outer edge of a spinning piece at 480 rpm is not 8 times the energy at 60 rpm, it is 8 squared. 64 times the energy at the edge of that piece at 480 than at 60.

Also, the variable speed is much easier to control when you are looking for that sweet spot where you have the highest speed before it starts to vibrate.

If affordable, I would definitely choose the 1221 VS.
Also new you have a 5 year warrantee from Jet.

[David Stoner]

Thanks to all who have responded so far. I haven't visited this site in a while, but now I remember how impressed I was before by how helpful (and quick) people are here. I welcome further thoughts, though the responses so far have me leaning toward the new lathe. Is there anybody out there who wants to steer me toward the frugal choice?

[John K Jordan]

I'm new to turning and am buying my first lathe, which I expect will have to last a good while. If I were to buy new, it would probably be the Jet 1221VS, which is currently on sale ($700) at Woodcraft. But someone (from whom I've bought tools before) just offered to sell me his lightly used Jet 1220 (non-VS) lathe and extension bed (but no stand) for $400. I would like a stand, but stands for the 1220 are unavailable; stands for the 1221VS are apparently nice but very expensive. I have the luxury of being able to afford the new lathe, but I don't want to waste money and the used lathe seems to be by far the better deal. Still, I want to be sure I make the better long-term investment. Any advice?

David,

You can always make a suitable stand.

I have three variable speed lathes and have turned on non variable speed lathes. To me there is no comparison. I change the speed a lot, very high for most spindles, very slow for sanding, flip the reverse switch for many things. Sometimes even a small change in speed can mean the difference between fighting vibration and making smooth skew cuts on thin spindles. When turning an unbalanced bowl blank certain speeds can result in horrible vibration when 50 RPM more or less can be much smoother. I also think it is easier to do higher-quality work with a heaver, variable speed lathe and I think easier to advance in skills. I would really hate to go back to a fixed speed (belt change) lathe.

But much depends on your budget, the size of your space, the temperament of your spouse, and how accurate your crystal ball is. Many, many people start out thinking a lower end lathe will be all they need and all they can afford. Then they get some experience, get excited, run into the limitations, and somehow come up with the money for a better lathe. The biggest limitation is the throw - it's difficult to turn a 20" platter on a 12" lathe. Also the length: this week I turned a spindle 53" long - hard to do on many lathes. Also, the weight and sturdiness is important for heavier blanks. You may start out thinking about turning bottle stoppers and salad bowls then one day wish you could try a cowboy hat!

Almost everyone who sticks with this sport gets better at it and trades up to a bigger lathe. I've upgraded twice. Your statement "which I expect will have to last a good while" indicates you can imagine yourself still turning years from now. If so, you might save a LOT of money in the long run just buying a better lathe now. You can always sell it if your interests change.

However, if budget is an issue, the other way works too. Some day you can sell your smaller lathe - there will always be people starting with woodturning! But it might be easier to sell a variable speed lathe.

BTW, I would FAR prefer a used VS lathe than a new non-VS lathe. Of the three VS lathes I have now, I bought two used and they are fine. The latest, a PM3520b, almost looks new and was a fraction of the new price.

When considering a lathe I'm reminded of some advice I got when I was in the market for a grand piano many years ago. The advice was: when you decide to buy a particular piano, move up to the next better one and you will never be sorry. (the advice didn't include how to pay for it!) So when I sat at the small grand I could afford, I thought about this and moved to the next better one and decided to buy it. Then my twisted logic said since I'm going to buy this one, I better move to the next one. I worked my way up the line and ended up with a 7' Baldwin concert piano. And guess what, I was never sorry! (and the value of that piano has increased many times over the years.)

JKJ

[Roger Chandler]

The variable speed is the way to go if you can afford it. One advantage besides the cost factor of the 1220 is the bed extension on the used lathe.........that will only come into play if you decide to do some longer spindle work, but there are also bed extensions available for the 1221 VS, I believe. The Jet 1221 Vs is pretty much the class of the midi field for lathes from Asia. I have the Delta 46-460 as my midi, with VS, and if the Jet had been out when I had purchased, then I would have gotten the Jet instead due to parts availability/warranty.

[Kyle Iwamoto]

Since you asked for frugal, I will say the older lathe is...... Well, I think it's a bit pricey especially when its over half the modern VS lathe. BUT if you want to save those precious dollars, start your big blanks between centers, and lightly hold it between just the points of the drive and live centers. Balance it out by shifting the blank as much as you can and then snug up the centers. I have a mini lathe with the same low speed, and that works wonders. My lathe is not bolted down. Never have a problem bouncing about using that method. The only other "good" point is the motor is running full speed all the time, so in the event that you are a bit agressive, it's a bit harder to stall the lathe compared to a VS motor that is not running full speed. BUT as I first mentioned, I think the old 1220 is a bit pricey. If it were cheaper, I'd get it and then in the future upgrade to the 1642, or any "big" lathe. I also have a Jet 1642. Changing belts takes but a few seconds. VS is definitely nice, but on a small lathe not absolutely necessary. If he's tossing in a chuck, or some tools, it's a good buy. My mini sits on a rolling tool chest, which also is a good place for tools. Stands are not that hard to do. Just my $0.02.
Good luck in your choice. I really don't think you'd go wrong either way. I've turned on the old and new 12" Jets. The new Jet is definitely much better.

[Lee Watermann]

Don't play "lathe work up". start as higher than you expect.

[William C Rogers]

I have two midi's, one VS and one belt. VS is the way to go. its just a lot easier and a good point made above about the low speed.

[Dennis Ford]

I have a 1220, been using it for several years. The lack of variable speed does not bother me but partly because I also have a large lathe that has variable speed. The Jet 1220 gets used for smaller items (I only use the slowest speed for sanding). IMO the 1220 is a great lathe to learn on and plenty good enough to keep when (not if) you get a larger machine. The 1221VS is better but you will likely still want a bigger machine in the future.

[Len Mullin]

David, three years ago I bought my first full size lathe a 16"x 42", it doesn't have the vs option. I own a mini lathe also 10"x 20", and even though it is a small lathe, it is my favorite to use. It is so much more pleasurable to use with the VS, I find myself cutting some nice large blanks down in size to fit the smaller lathe.To me, VS is not an option, it is a necessity in my next purchase.
Len

[David Stoner]

Again, WOW! You guys are tremendous. Thanks for all the feedback. I'm 99% convinced to stretch and get the new VS lathe. I realize that I'm fortunate to have that option. And as several of you suggested, I'll probably just build my own stand and keep the lathe on a workbench for the short term. Are there any particularly good plans anyone would recommend? And are there stands designed to accommodate the occasional addition of a bed extension?

[John K Jordan]

I've seen where people built a bed extension out of wood and just clamped it to the end of a long bench when needed. Probably just fine for occasional use. The alignment is less critical the further the tailstock is from the headstock.

JKJ

[Doug Ladendorf]

Again, WOW! You guys are tremendous. Thanks for all the feedback. I'm 99% convinced to stretch and get the new VS lathe. I realize that I'm fortunate to have that option. And as several of you suggested, I'll probably just build my own stand and keep the lathe on a workbench for the short term. Are there any particularly good plans anyone would recommend? And are there stands designed to accommodate the occasional addition of a bed extension?

I thought about building this one at one point. http://www.shopnotes.com/plans/mini-lathe-stand/ It has some nice features and you can change things as needed. I would put the grinder on the headstock side so you have room on the tailstock side.

[Joe Bradshaw]

David, I have both of the lathes you are looking at. I use the 1220 mostly as a buffer. I keep the 1221 at my girlfriends house. Both are good lathes, but, I would go with the 1221. I built a stand for mine that works well. Good luck with your choice.
Joe

[David Stoner]

Thanks. I see that the plans call for this stand to be on casters. I would love to make my stand mobile, since my shop isn't exactly spacious. But will the casters affect the stability of the unit (assuming they're all heavy-duty locking casters)?

[Doug Ladendorf]

I was thinking about the same thing. These might work well: http://www.amazon.com/WoodRiver-Machine-Leveling-Caster-Mounted/dp/B0039ZIPL4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1464978438&sr=8-2&keywords=leveling+casters

[Dom Garafalo]

David, I'm also a new turner and made the decision based on many recommendations from the members of this site to get variable speed if I could afford it. I bought a Jet 1221VS and highly recommend it.

As a new turner that needs to learn everything I really appreciate having the variable speed. I assure you that if you buy a electronically controlled variable speed lathe, you will have no regrets. It really makes everything about turning much easier.

Also, in regard to a mobile bench to mount it on, I built my own. Its 32" x 60" and I have my slow speed grinder and wolverine sharpening fixtures and various tools all mounted on it as well. The legs are 4x4's which provide a wide rock solid base once you position the bench where you want it. Mounted to each leg are step down casters I purchased from Woodworker's Supply ( no affiliation) that lifts the entire bench up about 3/4" so you can move it.

If it would be helpful, let me know if you would like some photos of my bench and lathe setup.

Dom

[David Stoner]

Thanks, Dom. Photos would be great. I've been looking at plans online, but my guess is that I'll end up building something that's a hybrid that includes ideas I've gleaned from other woodworkers like you.

[Dom Garafalo]

Here are some photos of my lathe and bench set up. Let me know if you have any questions. Btw, the bench height is based on my height so the spindle centerline is level with my elbows when my arms are bent at 90 degrees. The grinder is at a comfortable level so I can grind tools easily.

338555338556338554338557338558

[Roger Chandler]

Nice table for the lathe, and from what I can see you have a very nice shop area to work in as well, Dom.

[Dom Garafalo]

Nice table for the lathe, and from what I can see you have a very nice shop area to work in as well, Dom.

Thanks Roger. The setup works very well, it's the operator that needs help and, when I do, I come here to Sawmill Creek for it which is a great resource.

[Stan Calow]

David, what do you think you will be making? I have an extension bed for my Jet, and I don't think I've done anything that needed it since I've had it - 7+ years. But I would still make a stand to accommodate one, if it were me.

[David Stoner]

Thanks, Dom. I'm envious of your space. Do you keep the lathe on the bench or store it elsewhere and use the entire benchtop for other things, too? The bench is certainly spacious enough (and probably a good height) to use as an assembly space. I will probably build a smaller bench sized to fit the lathe, so I can keep it in a corner or my shop, which is clearly much smaller than yours.

[Dom Garafalo]

David,

I'm very fortunate to have a fairly large basement shop (1,600 sf) so I'm able to leave the lathe on the bench and in place just as you see it in the photos I added. The only time I move it into a corner or out of the way is if I'm working on a large non-turning project.

Btw, the Jet 1221vs weighs about 130 lbs or so and in my opinion is really too big and heavy to move on and off of a bench with any frequency.

Let me know if you have any other questions about my setup or lathe.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Dom