Help finding air leaks

[Rick Fisher]

I spent last weekend plumbing 1/2" and 3/4" copper lines for compressed air. I ran them through the wall cavities.. Insulated. Pressure tested, and happy..

I have 4 - 1/2" Copper drops in the ceiling and 2 in a wall.

The concept was that the drywall would go on after, and there would just be nice neat pipes sticking out.

The Drywallers smashed the system. When I showed up .. one of the pipes was actually stuck up in the ceiling. the other was sticking out on a 45 degree angle.

I got my compressor back to the site, and pressure tested the system. The once air tight system now wont even hold air well enough to let the compressor shut down.

I can't find the leaks because I cant hear the hiss.. There is insulation and drywall in the way.

Someone suggested filling the pipes with water.. I can only imagine what a mess that will be .

Other than tearing off all the drywall and insulation .. what can I do ?

Yes, I am angry.. and blah..blah.. about the drywallers..

lol

[George Bokros]

I would hold them accountable for the mess and make them get it repaired to your satisfaction, which in my case would be no leaks and the system held pressure for at lest 15 minutes.

[Malcolm McLeod]

I wish I could help with ideas for repair, but I don't know of a good way other than expose the lines and cut/splice/solder (or maybe compression repair sleeves). If you installed 'nail shields' over the studs at airlines, then damage is likely to be confined to area near the stub-outs. Hopefully.

And hopefully you still owe the drywaller money! That may be your only leverage. He/she might be morally obligated to cover the repairs, but if they've been paid, you're likely to need RCMP to find them. Age old lesson of not paying 100% until they are finished 100%. Sorry it's at your expense.

[Mike Heidrick]

Worse comes to worse cap it off and hide it and send them a bill for some Maxline RapidAir 3/4" kits and install it.

[Robert Engel]

I sure don't blame you for being mad.

Just curious what is the reason to run air lines inside walls? And why copper?, that sounds expensive. And why insulate?

[Tom M King]

Use a stethoscope. Everything else has to be turned off, and maybe use a small compressor sitting outside. If the lines weren't over 2" from the surface, I wouldn't blame the drywallers.

[George Bokros]

I wouldn't blame the drywallers.

Why not. They install drywall over stubbed out plumbing and electrical everyday. They would not get away with doing that to a general contractor! The drywallers are not responsible for the nailer protection but the hiding of the drops is their fault.

[Tom M King]

You left out part of my sentence. If electrical and plumbing is closer than 2" to the surface (actually code says 1-1/4", but 2 is better except of course in a 2x4 stud), it has to be protected by a steel plate, or it wouldn't have passed inspection. Drywallers don't look for what not to hit, since it's supposed to be out of the way. If it was deeper than 2", or they hit one of the stubs, yeah, I'd blame them. They should be responsible for moving the stubbed out parts.

[Jim Dwight]

It matters how close to the surface the lines are. If they are closer than a inch, I wouldn't blame the drywallers. If they are in the middle of the studs, then I agree the drywallers were hacks and there is no telling what other damage they did. But that seems unlikely. They use short fasteners because they hold better than the drywall and take less time to install.

[Chris Padilla]

Ouch. This is a tough one. I'd be so mad that I couldn't see straight.

If you ever want the system to work properly, you are going to have to remove drywall and insulation. You might get lucky and only need to do it around the stub-outs. Cut a 12" x 12" square out around the stub-out, pull the insulation, observe and fix...and get the drywallers back to patch the holes...maybe....

[Tom M King]

A stethoscope will work. I've used one more than a couple of times to find plumbing leaks. I feel certain that if I can hear a small plumbing leak, that an air leak would be easier to hear. You can find the correct stud pocket on either side of the problem stud, and then go up and down, and back and forth to pinpoint the exact location.

[John K Jordan]

Good grief, what a mess. How could someone be so stupid and careless? I would take pictures to document. Raise a fuss. Contact the owner if there is one and show him the after and before photos (if you have them).

The leak is likely where they stressed the pipes. I was also going to recommend a stethoscope, held flat against the drywall. Pump up the compressor with main valve off, switch it off for quiet, then have someone open the valve while you listen at suspected areas. You can get a stethoscope at any drug store or Walmart.

For the ceiling, is there a way to get to it from above? I would probably cut away the sheet rock where there was obvious damage first, where the pipes were bent or not protruding as planned, a small rectangular hole at first, enlarged as needed. (rectangular holes are trivial to patch.) Accessing those spots will need to be done anyway.

Do you have or can you borrow a remote inspection camera? The one I have (Bosch) has a light on the end and can be put into a 5/8" hole to look around. More difficult with insulation in the wall but still possible. I used this once to trace the exact position of a wire.

If worse comes to worst and you have to tear down the sheetrock, is there any way to replace it with some kind of paneling instead? I used 1/2" ply on all my shop walls and ceilings, put up with screws so I could take down panels if needed. So far I have removed one panel twice for electrical additions.

Issues like this are the biggest reason (after the cost) that I tend to do everything myself or at least be there when anyone else is. Fortunately, I have the luxury of a flexible schedule after retirement. Unfortunately, with a crew of me everything takes longer. I hired a company to put in an electric gate on our lane and the owner told me I didn't have to be there. In fact he sounded like he didn't want me there, probably thought I'd be a big pain and get in the way. Too bad. I ended up using my welder when theirs quit, supplying steel when they didn't bring enough, doing the wiring when they were confused, correcting several mistakes before they were made, and using my tractor to dig for the remote exit sensor. The crew actually thanked me when they left.

JKJ

[Jamie Buxton]

Ripping out the drywall and replacing it is a big deal. Instead, abandon the in-wall pipes, and surface-mount new pipes.

[Rick Fisher]

Found the leak today.. I had to wait for everyone to leave the site, so it was quiet. Then borrowed an old style 20 gallon compressor from another builder and ran it from the house next door, again for quiet. Got up on a scaffold and found the leak.

I first had the Drywaller remove 3 sheets of drywall off the ceiling.. pulled the insulation.. etc.. ugh.

The ceiling is 13 feet high .. the pipes actually hang down about 8" .. and I wrapped them in red tape so they would be obvious before this happened.. They smashed 2 of them.. smashing one pipe wrapped in red tape.... fair enough .. when you smash the second one.. well..

Anyway .. there was a tee that was over stressed and actually broke .. the leverage of about 9' of copper pipe moving was enough to over stress it.. I dug it out and replaced it. Pressure tested the system again, its good again ..

I went copper because its tough.. hmm.. pex would probably not have broken.. lol .. I buried in the wall because I planned this out for a long time. I wanted it neat and tidy.. 4 drops in the ceiling, 2 in the walls, and 3 in the floor .. all specific. Insulation is R-20 in the walls and R-28 in the vaulted ceiling .. did this because I am in Canada.. we insulate up here.. lol ..

The trick to finding this leak was silence. During the day, too much noise on site.

[Chris Padilla]

Excellent news, Rick! For some reason, I had assumed that everything was taped and mudded by now. Easy enough, although painful, to remove screws and remove the drywall that way.

Did you plan for water removal from your lines or do you plan to put in a dryer to ensure no water? Usually, you need to slope the lines and put in catch points (usually a tee pointed down with some length of pipe to act as a catch-all) so that you can drain water as needed.

[glenn bradley]

I would hold them accountable for the mess and make them get it repaired to your satisfaction, which in my case would be no leaks and the system held pressure for at lest 15 minutes.


Yes, this. Why should some tape-apes mutilate installed fixtures and not be held accountable???

[John K Jordan]

Found the leak today...

Fantastic. I had assumed the crew was done and gone and you were left with the mess!

JKJ

[Rick Fisher]

Fantastic. I had assumed the crew was done and gone and you were left with the mess!

JKJ

No, I called the boss, he showed up within an hour. He was great about it..