I can't decide.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Hello again Creekers!

My birthday is coming up and I'm trying to help my girlfriend decide how much I'm worth. It's appearing that we will have to agree to disagree, but let's say I have about a $600 limit.

My Roubo should be finished fairly soon, and so that means I won't have many excuses left for why I'm not actually doing woodworking. I currently have a LV LA Jack plane, and a LV large router plane. I was thinking of asking for a LV BU jointer plane, and a LV DX60 block plane. Rob Lee, if you are reading this..I will offer my services to do whatever is necessary to get a NX60. If it will require breaking the law, just PM me and use the code word "cacophony". I would sincerely love to throw my money at you for this plane.

I don't have a powered jointer, although I think I'll end up with one eventually. I'm also pretty terrible with hand planing at the moment, but I just got some David Charlesworth dvds - thanks to another thread on these forums. I think the BU jointer from LV would make sense, but I'm finding myself pretty intrigued by the LN #8. I also have access to a lot of the LV planes from my friend, but I've never even held a LN. This may be part of the intrigue.

Help me decide! If I get the LN #8, I'd probably make the LN 60 1/2 my block plane. If I get the LV BU jointer, I'd probably go with the DX60. Unless a NX60 falls out of the sky 'wink wink', in which case I'm getting a tattoo that says Veritas..and will pledge my undying loyalty and first born son to Rob Lee.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Let me get this straight- this is your GIRLFRIEND, and you have a limit of $600? My WIFE gives me a limit of $100. My suggestion is MARRY THAT GIRL!!!!!

I have the Veritas bevel-up planes; all of them. I love them. I love that I can have three irons sharpened at three different angles and cover soft woods to figured hardwoods. I also love the toothed blade, which I now use quite a bit.

That said, I am saving up to buy a LN #8 because I long for a bigger, chunkier jointer for larger surfaces. I don't have a powered jointer either, and what I do is joint it by hand, then use a thickness planer to match the other side. You don't have to perfectly joint it smooth- just joint it so that it lays flat when it goes through the planer, then flip it over once you have thicknessed it and one more pass to touch up your hand jointing. After that I smooth by hand. For my Roubo build I did all the edge jointing by hand, but I admit for the top I gave up shortly and loaded everything in the Jeep and took it to the big shop where I have access to lots of tool drool and used a big powered jointer. That's only because of SO MANY board feet to joint.

SO... get a jointer, and if any money left, get a good block plane. The 60 1/2 is good, and the apron plane is also good. The difference is the apron plane doesn't have an adjustable mouth. I find I really do not need the adjustable mouth that much and I wind up using the apron plane more than the larger adjustable one.

If you really want to spend some money, the plane(s) that would be the last ones I would ever give up if forced to sell everything would be the Veritas skewed rabbeting block plane set. (2 planes- L & R). They are so versatile that I find them to be the best $350(ish) I've spent so far.

Now, back to this girlfriend- do you know what a good thing you have here? You do realize that now that you've posted this all over the internet there are going to be potential suitors busting down her door. I suggest you buy a ring as fast as you can and seal that deal.

[Jim Koepke]

Tough choices, glad it ins't my problem.

For the longest time I felt a #7 was enough jointer for me. Then one day while out enjoying antiquing with the wife a man offered me a Stanley #8 at a price I couldn't refuse. Now the #8 is my favored long plane. The #7 is set for a lighter cut to clean up any tear out that might be left by the #8.

Though a #6 also gets a lot of the shorter jointing work.

BTW, happy birthday and if your GF is willing to spend that much on you, maybe you should buy her a ring.

jtk

[Malcolm Schweizer]

^^^ You see- Jim and I apparently posted at roughly the same time. I promise we did not collaborate. MARRY HER!!!! Good grief, man- any girl that sets a $600 tool limit is fine pickin's. I don't care what she looks like.

By the way, can she have a talk with my wife about gift limits? Maybe she could school my wife on what a PROPER gift limit is, and my wife could teach her how to make the best dinner dishes you ever tasted. It's a fair trade. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. I get a better gift, and you get better food. Win/Win. In fact, if you get my wife to raise her limit to $600, I'll promise to buy you that set of block planes. I still come out ahead of where I am now.

[Andrew Hughes]

I would get a Ln foreplane I think it's a no 6. It's what I use to flatten my bench and it served me well before it tooled up to my large jointer machine.
My birthdays coming up soon I will be lucky to get a burger.:o
Happy bday. Gemini

Aj

[george wilson]

My wife would really like to just IGNORE our birthdays!! She isn't into them,and would not let me buy her anything her last birthday!

[Jim Koepke]

My wife would really like to just IGNORE our birthdays!! She isn't into them,and would not let me buy her anything her last birthday!

A friend of mine hates birthday remembrances. He was born on the fifth of November. So I call him and tell him to have a happy Guy Fawke's day. It usually gives him a chuckle.

jtk

[Mel Fulks]

Jim, the reason it gives him a chuckle is, unlike Guy Fawkes ; his leg is only FIGURATIVELY being pulled.

[Jim Belair]

Maybe taking a woodworking course would be good use of the funds.

And to all those who say "marry her", the OP did say they weren't in agreement as to the figure. I read that the $600 was his take on it.

[Andrew Gibson]

I love my Veritas BU Jack for shooting board and end grain use but prefer a BD bench plane. I find them easier to keep sharp. All of mine are vintage from various makers but all have replacement Irons and cap irons, mostly LV, and all have corrugated soles because my first was a Union #7 that belonged to my great grandfather. I still need the fractional 5's. I want a LN 5-1/2c one day it will be mine.
If I were looking for a block plane and joiner I would go with Lie Nielsen #8 and #60-1/2. I have vintage versions.
yup that's what I would do.

[Prashun Patel]

I will offer that over time the block plane has played a slightly less prominent place in my arsenal. The other LN/Veritas blocks are all superb workers as well, if not as sleek/sexy as the DX/NX.

The BU jointer is a fantastic plane. It is my favorite of the BU series. You can double up on your blades between that and your LA jack too. But, don't make too much of that. I don't have them specially tuned at different angles any more as I originally did. I just have them all sharpened well and it saves me having to resharpen as often. You could even get the toothed blade instead of the solid. But personally, until you are sure you want to joint things by hand, I would wait on this.

What do you sharpen with? I would personally invest in some great stones and chisels.

By the way, LV is having free shipping right now if tht helps....

[Robby Tacheny]

Go to an antique mall, find a section with old tools and planes, and get a Stanley #5. Learn to flatten the sole, tune it, and sharpen it. Spend money on something flat, some sandpaper, and some diamond stones or higher sandpaper grits for the blades. Or maybe get a Worksharp 3000, since sharpening is something you'll always be doing.

Then watch some videos on how to use it. Get a piece of oak or mahogany (these are forgiving woods to hand plane in my opinion) and learn to use it for flattening. Learn how to read the grain for tear out and which direction to plane. Also try making a round over with it. Just draw the profile on the end grain by hand and learn to shape the board with it. When trying to plane on edge you'll appreciate your bench and vise a lot more.

After all is said and done, your Stanley #5 will work well and you'll know how to plane. You'll have done a lot of work getting there, but it shouldn't take too long.

After ALL of that, go use your remaining $500 (assuming you didn't buy a Worksharp 3000) and buy a LN or LV hand plane and you'll appreciate them so much more. You might decide you like fixing up the old stuff and get more of it.

Robby

[Jim Koepke]

Learn to flatten the sole, tune it, and sharpen it.

My advice would be to leave the sole flattening alone for awhile. It is easier to mess up a good sole than it is to flatten one that is out of shape.

jtk

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

What do you sharpen with? I would personally invest in some great stones and chisels.

By the way, LV is having free shipping right now if tht helps....

I have a set of Shapton Ceramic stones, and a DMT Diamond plate. I also have the new LN honing guide.

I had considered just upgrading to a nice set of chisels, but I figured I'd probably need a jointer plane. I have a Dewalt 735 planer, but I'd have to travel to a friend's shop to use a jointer. I guess I could use my LV LA jack for that purpose.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I've looked into taking a course, but can't seem to find any near my that have open dates. The $600 is available, I just think I'm worth more than that. :) I'm afraid if I put a ring on her finger, my value will go down to $100 or less...like Malcolm. I would take you up on that offer though Malcolm. My girlfriend's not much in the culinary department. I hope she never sees this website.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

LOL! I read Amy the part about your girlfriend allowing you $600 and she said' "That's a girlfriend, not a wife. A wife has to feed you and you eat a lot. That requires a reduction to $100." Wow. You were right. I had forgotten what dating was like.

Dont worry, your girlfriend will never see this... For a small fee.... :rolleyes:

[Mike Cherry]

I'd be the last person to try and dissuade someone from buying tools haha. I would urge you to look at what size furniture parts you mostly deal with. I have completed smaller projects with nothing but a number 5 and smaller. I had the LN #8 and decided it was too big and heavy. I'm not a small guy. Bookcases and stuff would require larger planes of course. Have you considered the LN rabbet block?

[Phil Mueller]

I have the LV BU jointer...very nice plane, can't go wrong. I also have the LN adj mouth block plane...also very nice, can't go wrong. Heck, throw in a bit of your own $ and get whatever you want. They both have such great reputations, that if you decide to sell, you'll get most back. Did I say can't go wrong?

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Tim

An alternative to the Veritas BU Jointer and the LN #8 is the Veritas Custom #7.

The BUJ is a terrific plane - lots of feedback and a wide range of cutting angles using blades with different bevel angles. The down side is that it cannot be used on its side on the bench as a shooting plane.

The #8 is a monster. I think that the LN #7 is probably a more reasonable mass, unless you are The Hulk, and in which case you can have anything you like :)

The Custom #7 is a terrific plane - all the low centre of gravity virtues of the BUJ along with the benefits of a BD and chipbreaker use. Mine has a 40 degree frog that enables it to go from low cutting angle (planing end grain or across the grain) to planing edges and face grain without fear of tearout - all without changing the blade or frog.

The other feature I have come to appreciate in the Custom planes, compared to the Bailey planes (both Stanley and LN) is that the setting screw for the Veritas is on the same side as the bevel when adjusting the chipbreaker. The Bailey planes have the bevel on the opposite side to each other. This makes it easier to set the Custom chipbreaker.

Of course, if you have no interest in setting chipbreakers, then get the BUJ.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I'd be the last person to try and dissuade someone from buying tools haha. I would urge you to look at what size furniture parts you mostly deal with. I have completed smaller projects with nothing but a number 5 and smaller. I had the LN #8 and decided it was too big and heavy. I'm not a small guy. Bookcases and stuff would require larger planes of course. Have you considered the LN rabbet block?

I am to new to know what I'll mainly work on. My Roubo is pretty much my first furniture project. It's coming along great, but due to my friend's skill and not mine. I intend to start off making some boxes to learn some skill. Bigger boxes with dovetails etc...maybe the size of the lower drawers in a dresser. I expect to go through a good bit of wood practicing sawing and joinery.

in my head I'm a big furniture builder. In reality, I'm a researcher and a tool buyer. The Roubo build has been great because my buddy will make me do stuff that I hesitate to do because of my lack of confidence. My mortising has gotten a lot better.

I really thought about the LN rabbet block, but you can't adjust the mouth can you? I doubt I've taken 45 strokes total with a hand plane, so I base everything on research.

[Bryan Robinson]

I have the LN #8 and I love it.

[Kurt Cady]

I think you need to wait and try out the planes. I have the LV low angle block. It's a bit too big for me. And I don't have small hands. The LN low angle block on the other hand is a dream. It's not as wide or tall. I got the LV first, reading on the internet.

The LV block isn't a total waste though. With the handle and knob it is a dream to use. Like a number two plane.

Now, if someone would just get LV to make a custom 2 or 3...

[Robby Tacheny]

I agree with Kurt. Hand planes are nice to have, but to actually make stuff you need a core set of tools. A #8 is a plane to dimension lumber, functionally the same as a powered planer or jointer. After you have a square board, you still have to make something out of it usually using joinery of some sort. That's going to require saws, chisels, marking/measuring tools, etc.

I would say make sure you have the basics covered and wait until you have a project in mind that requires that jointer plane.

You mentioned you are making a Roubo bench? Do you have dogs and holdfasts? They aren't sexy, but holdfasts and bench dogs will save you some grief.

Robby

[Mark AJ Allen]

Derek expressed my sentiments. In addition to not having chipbreakers (because frankly, I haven't encountered anywhere I've needed them) ... I like the BU planes because they are fast and easy to setup (and therefore, less a barrier to frequent blade touch up and sharpening) and also easy and fast to swap out blades of various angles depending on what I want to do. For me, it's easier to have a library of blades than it is to have many planes to choose from for various tasks.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I agree with Kurt. Hand planes are nice to have, but to actually make stuff you need a core set of tools. A #8 is a plane to dimension lumber, functionally the same as a powered planer or jointer. After you have a square board, you still have to make something out of it usually using joinery of some sort. That's going to require saws, chisels, marking/measuring tools, etc.

I would say make sure you have the basics covered and wait until you have a project in mind that requires that jointer plane.

You mentioned you are making a Roubo bench? Do you have dogs and holdfasts? They aren't sexy, but holdfasts and bench dogs will save you some grief.

Robby

i have measuring and marking pretty well covered. My bench dogs are made out of wood. I have a bad axe tenon saw and a LN dovetail saw. This decision is proving very difficult to make.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I say go for the jointer, which is a more costly item, and then use your own money if you need chisels. I have the complete set of LN chisels- bevel, skew, mortice, fishtail, corner, etc... but I'll be the first to admit I could get by with a much smaller set. If you need chisels you could get a few and build them one by one. Veritas also makes an excellent chisel.

That said, I did forget that you folks have access to S4S dimensioned lumber that I don't have access to. That lessens the need for a jointer and/or jack, but you really still need a jointer for dressing edges. Ultimately, you get a tool, whatever tool you choose. Do like Nike and just do it- regret it later if you want, but you'll still have a cool tool. :-)

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

If you want to listen to someone who started to plane and woodwork a year ago then here are my thoughts.

Veritas BU Jointer is nice but requires some skill to join an edge with it. I bought it but wasn't able to do much without skill. So, inspired by Derek and all I've got Veritas Custom #7. This is my most used one now. I use it to plane surfaces and I use it on the side to shoot long grain all the time. Together with Veritas Custom #4 1/2 and Veritas Scrub these are the planes I use to dimension lumber and smooth it. Any of similar size and flat square sides will do the same - LN 6, 7, 8, Stanley and such. LN #8 might be too heavy but I think nice to have after #7. Chipbreaker is awesome too, that means BD plane then. BU Jointer and LAJ I use sometimes for planing surfaces when I can read the grain - low angle makes so easy to push.

Specialty planes I found to be very useful. Almost as costly as bench planes. Veritas Shooting plane is the fourth plane that uses the same blade as LAJ! I use it all the time for shooting end grain. I found that Veritas LA Block Plane with addition of knob and rear handle sold separately is very nice to use.

Saws are nearly as important as planes but not so costly.

Overall, I think I would need 10 such birthdays/years to get comfortable set of tools I have now. So, I made it in one year. I may say I had birthdays every month right after salary, hehe. :)
My wife also likes to make things by hands (sewing, painting, renovating, cooking) and can also appreciate a good tool, lucky me! :D She also wants use my woodworking tools for making boxes and such later on.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

I doubt I'll ever buy s4s lumber. I get lots of free lumber from my friend that owns a mill. I probably need a scrub plane also.

I was hoping Derek would chime in. I hadn't considered the custom LV. I'm not sure what a chip breaker really is, but maybe it wouldn't be too difficult to grasp. The Schwarz uses the LN #8 and he seems like a skinny fellow, so I never considered the weight. Andrey seems pretty happy with your advice though. I know what you mean about the # of birthdays. I just got a sterling tool works dovetail square. I really like it, but I stink at swapping the blades..I have the same issue with my Starrett. I read the Vesper version is easier to swap, so I just ordered one today.

Malcolm has me intrigued by the LV skew block planes now....thanks. I still want one of your posters also!

Then there is Prashun and the chisels nibbling away at my brain. I really like my friends Veritas Bench chisels. I think I'll end up with a full set one day. (NX60 Rob Lee, my tattoo would be a full size NX60..just saying..I am pretty handsome so it would be great advertising.) I still would like to try some others before I commit. I've read that everyone should have at least one good paring chisel and butt chisel. I wouldn't mind trying a blue spruce version. Thoughts?

[Kurt Cady]

Dude, you're all over the map!

heres some of the best advice I've ever gotten. Took a while for me to adopt it, but I'm finally there. When you need a new tool for a project, buy it. Buy the best. Don't buy for tools for dreams projects or far away projects. Buy tools for current projects. This 1. Ensures it will get used. 2. Ensures that you're gaining experience to know what you want for your work style 3. Fills a need

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

Dude, you're all over the map!

heres some of the best advice I've ever gotten. Took a while for me to adopt it, but I'm finally there. When you need a new tool for a project, buy it. Buy the best. Don't buy for tools for dreams projects or far away projects. Buy tools for current projects. This 1. Ensures it will get used. 2. Ensures that you're gaining experience to know what you want for your work style 3. Fills a need

I know I'm all over the map, it's frustrating for me as well. I love building my Roubo. After its complete, I want to build my skills. I have lots of rough cut lumber, but I'd like to be able to surface it. I also believe in buying quality and fixing up old tools is not very appealing to me. I also think that no matter which way I eventually go, learning to use hand tools is the best investment in the future woodworking me.

Its also a hard decision because I want the girlfriend to see her gift being used. That way she will know that I truly love and cherish her...giving me nice gifts.

[James Baker SD]

I acquired (in order) a #7 Clifton, a LV BU jointer, and finally a LN #8. The only one I ever take out now is the #8.

If I weren't so lazy (hate packing and shipping) I would try to sell the other two. I also have a LN #5.5 as my mid length plane and it gets used fairly often as well.

[Jim Belair]

learning to use hand tools is the best investment in the future woodworking me.



Bingo. (emphasis added) You've got lots of tools already. Get your girlfriend to buy you a new grill or something.

[Patrick Chase]

Hello again Creekers!

My birthday is coming up and I'm trying to help my girlfriend decide how much I'm worth. It's appearing that we will have to agree to disagree, but let's say I have about a $600 limit.

My Roubo should be finished fairly soon, and so that means I won't have many excuses left for why I'm not actually doing woodworking. I currently have a LV LA Jack plane, and a LV large router plane. I was thinking of asking for a LV BU jointer plane, and a LV DX60 block plane. Rob Lee, if you are reading this..I will offer my services to do whatever is necessary to get a NX60. If it will require breaking the law, just PM me and use the code word "cacophony". I would sincerely love to throw my money at you for this plane.

I don't have a powered jointer, although I think I'll end up with one eventually. I'm also pretty terrible with hand planing at the moment, but I just got some David Charlesworth dvds - thanks to another thread on these forums. I think the BU jointer from LV would make sense, but I'm finding myself pretty intrigued by the LN #8. I also have access to a lot of the LV planes from my friend, but I've never even held a LN. This may be part of the intrigue.

Help me decide! If I get the LN #8, I'd probably make the LN 60 1/2 my block plane. If I get the LV BU jointer, I'd probably go with the DX60. Unless a NX60 falls out of the sky 'wink wink', in which case I'm getting a tattoo that says Veritas..and will pledge my undying loyalty and first born son to Rob Lee.

I have the LN #8 and the LV BU jointer (and the LV #7 to boot).

IMO jointing is one place where you really want a BD plane with a cap iron, perhaps even more than for smoothing. There are a few reasons why I say that:

1. Jointing is the last step before smoothing, so you really don't want to leave significant tearout in your wake, or else you'll end up having to spend a lot of time with the smoother and/or take thicker shavings than ideal.

2. You typically want to take a fairly thick shaving (several mils) when jointing to keep productivity acceptably high. That rules out depth-of-cut as a tearout avoidance strategy.

3. Jointers (and the #8 in particular) are wide, heavy planes. That coupled with relatively deep cuts as per (2) makes high cutting angles unattractive as a tearout avoidance strategy unless you're very strong and/or masochistic.

That pretty much leaves a closely set cap iron as the preferred solution for tearout, hence the suggestion to go with a BD jointer. For smoothing you'd be taking a thinner shaving with a smaller plane, so you have more options there which is why I think that jointing is where the cap iron is most valuable. The only times I find myself using the BU jointer are when I want a low cutting angle for some reason and tearout isn't a concern.

I'm a pretty big guy and in reasonable shape, and the L-N #8 gives me a fair workout. It's my preferred jointer, but definitely not for everyone. That extra 1/4" in width and 2" in length makes more of a difference than you might think.

Ordinarily I'd agree with others that you should marry the GF, but then you'd just be spending "your" (communal) money and that's nowhere near as fun...

[Patrick Chase]

Go to an antique mall, find a section with old tools and planes, and get a Stanley #5. Learn to flatten the sole, tune it, and sharpen it. Spend money on something flat, some sandpaper, and some diamond stones or higher sandpaper grits for the blades. Or maybe get a Worksharp 3000, since sharpening is something you'll always be doing.

Then watch some videos on how to use it. Get a piece of oak or mahogany (these are forgiving woods to hand plane in my opinion) and learn to use it for flattening. Learn how to read the grain for tear out and which direction to plane. Also try making a round over with it. Just draw the profile on the end grain by hand and learn to shape the board with it. When trying to plane on edge you'll appreciate your bench and vise a lot more.

After all is said and done, your Stanley #5 will work well and you'll know how to plane. You'll have done a lot of work getting there, but it shouldn't take too long.

Why on Earth would the OP get a #5 if he already has a bevel-up Jack (62-1/2)? He'd just be duplicating capabilities he already has, and not addressing his need for a jointer.

Tim, unfortunately jointers (#7 and #8) are one case where there isn't a huge price difference between LV/LN and a used Stanley. IMO you're on the right path, though I'd consider a #7 instead of the BUJ for reasons I outlined in another post.

[Patrick Chase]

I doubt I'll ever buy s4s lumber. I get lots of free lumber from my friend that owns a mill. I probably need a scrub plane also.

Your BUJ can be used for roughing, if you get a dedicated blade for the purpose and put a whole lot of camber on it (a "whole lot" because the impact of camber is diluted by ~3.5X with a 12 deg bed vs common pitch). I'd say a scrub should be pretty far down your list.



Then there is Prashun and the chisels nibbling away at my brain. I really like my friends Veritas Bench chisels. I think I'll end up with a full set one day. (NX60 Rob Lee, my tattoo would be a full size NX60..just saying..I am pretty handsome so it would be great advertising.) I still would like to try some others before I commit. I've read that everyone should have at least one good paring chisel and butt chisel. I wouldn't mind trying a blue spruce version. Thoughts?

I have the Veritas chisels, and they're very nice, but if I'm being completely honest I'd have to say that chisels are a case where the 80/20 rule applies - 20% of the cost (for Narex etc) gets you 80% of the functionality. Ditto for block planes and smoothers provided you're willing to shop used.

Jointer planes are different - the "collectors" have run the prices up so high that there isn't really a bargain option. I'd economize on everything else and blow your wad of cash on the jointer.

[Patrick Chase]

I am to new to know what I'll mainly work on. My Roubo is pretty much my first furniture project. It's coming along great, but due to my friend's skill and not mine. I intend to start off making some boxes to learn some skill. Bigger boxes with dovetails etc...maybe the size of the lower drawers in a dresser. I expect to go through a good bit of wood practicing sawing and joinery.

One common rule of thumb is that for easy jointing you want a plane that's at least half the length of the workpiece. For boxes I typically work with my #2 or #3. You certainly don't need (or want...) a jointer for that.

[Don Slaughter]

I have a Stanley#8, and ECE Jointer and this: Clifton #6 https://goo.gl/photos/u8wdJQy2jF5bsYSq8 . This Clifton is a joy to work with. The photo was taken in 2007. I've used this #6 for just about all my jointing. It has plenty of heft/length for just about anything I encounter. The ECE is a workhorse but not as enjoyable to use. I believe the Clifton is about as heavy as the Stanley #8 and it feels tighter.
Just something to think about. Try several planes before you invest. The LN #8 is a really great jointer....I tested one at one of there events....and I'd buy it if I really thought it could make me forget the Clifton. The Clifton cost me about $350 or so in 2007
Don

[Patrick Chase]

I have a Stanley#8, and ECE Jointer and this: Clifton #6 https://goo.gl/photos/u8wdJQy2jF5bsYSq8.

This reminds me of another option that nobody has mentioned yet: A double-iron wooden try plane from one of the usual suspects (David, Steve, etc). Price is in the same ballpark as the L-N.

[Patrick Chase]

I'm not sure what a chip breaker really is, but maybe it wouldn't be too difficult to grasp.

Search for "David Weaver setting a cap iron" to find an article on the topic. Unfortunately I can't link to the article directly because it's on a rival site, and I can't post a link for the search as that would be commercial speech on my part (I work on/with search engines).

EDIT: Derek's review of the Veritas custom planes (http://inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/VeritasCustomPlanes4.html) also contains a lot of information on the topic.

[Jim Koepke]

Tim, unfortunately jointers (#7 and #8) are one case where there isn't a huge price difference between LV/LN and a used Stanley.

If you can get me half of LV or LN prices for a Stanley #8, I could email pictures, get it packed and in the mail tomorrow. You can keep the other half, minus shipping, as a commission.

jtk

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Your BUJ can be used for roughing, if you get a dedicated blade for the purpose and put a whole lot of camber on it (a "whole lot" because the impact of camber is diluted by ~3.5X with a 12 deg bed vs common pitch). I'd say a scrub should be pretty far down your list.

My limited experience is different in this regard. Narrow scrub plane is very nice for fast removal. Also I use it on the edges a lot to reduce the width. For me it is equally important as bigger jack plane setup for coarse work. Therefore, I see it on the same position as LAJ or Custom #5 1/2 that I have. I always start with the scrub when I get wood from the mill (almost like fire wood).

[Prashun Patel]

I respect everything you're saying Tim.

If you really want a jointer then get the jointer. You can't go wrong with the BU jointer or the custom one. They both get excellent reviews - and if you do not like one, you can likely resell it for close to your purchase price. In fact, Lee Valley sometimes takes tools back or exchanges them for other things if you've made an inappropriate purchase in good faith. I don't want to divulge details, but I made comments on this site about mild regret I had on a purchase over a year after ownership. I was personally contacted and offered an option. They really have it in their hearts to make their customers happy.

[Mike Holbrook]

Tim, I feel your pain. I have a LV Custom 5 1/2 in my cart at LV right now. Last week it was a Custom #5. The week before that it was a #7, still have not bought anything....I am thinking about the 5 1/2 at the moment because I work more rough small to medium sized pieces than many on these pages do. I am all excited about making chairs from "green" wood. I put the green in quotes because it steadily becomes less green and at some point, before the piece is finished, I start drying it. Initial shaping may be done with drawknives, axes, wedges....But they leave rougher surfaces. I started out thinking I would be using purchased lumber dimensioned on at least two sides, little did I know..

The point being what you may need does depend on the work you you will do. I understand that you simply do not know exactly where this journey will lead. This issue is why I frequently buy specific tools for the specific work I am working on at the time. Right now I am removing the wind from 10x26" glue ups, making chair legs, rebuilding my shave horse. I also like making boards or pieces from actual split logs. Breaking a log down that way allows maximum control of the grain in the board or piece. I am planing a decent sized kiln, so drying want be an issue.

I took three classes all having to do with chair or chair/table/bench leg construction over the last year or two. This is also a good way to learn what tools you may or may not like, classes give you access to other students and teachers tools. I am lucky being in metro Atlanta, having access to many classes, seminars, shows....If you can't find classes you might find local woodworkers, but apparently you are doing that.

PS
I am trying to figure out if Malcom's deal concerning the wives swapping skill sets is an open offer. My wife does not cook, unless we can talk her into baking deserts on rare occasions. I like to cook but sometimes I get tired and she prefers my cooking to restaurants. Be careful what you learn how to do! She basically ignores what I spend on tools....

[Patrick Chase]

If you can get me half of LV or LN prices for a Stanley #8, I could email pictures, get it packed and in the mail tomorrow. You can keep the other half, minus shipping, as a commission.

jtk

When I was making a similar decision used Stanley jointers from non-reputable sellers were going for significantly more than half the cost of the LV #7 on "the auction site". The few listings active right now are a little lower than that though.

Reputable sellers like Supertool and Don Wilwol were close to (and in some cases more than) the price of the LV at that time. I don't see any jointers on Don's site right now, though, and I'm not subscribed to Patrick Leach's newsletter any more.

[Patrick Chase]

My limited experience is different in this regard. Narrow scrub plane is very nice for fast removal. Also I use it on the edges a lot to reduce the width. For me it is equally important as bigger jack plane setup for coarse work. Therefore, I see it on the same position as LAJ or Custom #5 1/2 that I have. I always start with the scrub when I get wood from the mill (almost like fire wood).

Narrow plane, or narrow shaving?

You can make a wide plane take a narrow shaving with blade camber, which is why I said you'd want a dedicated cambered blade for roughing. IMO that's enough, but then again I prefer to rough with a Jack (BD #5 or #5-1/4W) rather than a scrub to begin with, as I find that the longer sole is convenient. As always there's more than one way to do it :-).

Don't get me wrong: I don't think the BUJ is an optimal roughing plane. It's width coupled with the low bed angle mean that you need to use a LOT of camber to get a suitably narrow/deep shaving. If I were starting where the OP is I'd prioritize the jointer much higher than another rouging plane though.

[Tim Cooper Louisiana]

There is an arts and crafts cabinet made out of spalted maple and cherry that Schwarz made for some hand tools. I know that I want to make that one day. I'd guess that is my first "target project". I told me friend that I wanted to build it when the Roubo was done, and he politely told me to practice more first. Thus boxes. Dovetailed boxes. I am very appreciative of all the advice I've received so far. There are some really talented and smart individuals on this forum!

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

Narrow plane, or narrow shaving?

You can make a wide plane take a narrow shaving with blade camber, which is why I said you'd want a dedicated cambered blade for roughing. IMO that's enough, but then again I prefer to rough with a Jack (BD #5 or #5-1/4W) rather than a scrub to begin with, as I find that the longer sole is convenient. As always there's more than one way to do it :-).

Don't get me wrong: I don't think the BUJ is an optimal roughing plane. It's width coupled with the low bed angle mean that you need to use a LOT of camber to get a suitably narrow/deep shaving. If I were starting where the OP is I'd prioritize the jointer much higher than another rouging plane though.

You are right. I have only wide blades, #4 1/2 and #5 1/2. Probably alright with #5 or #5-1/4W and high camber as a scrub. But Veritas Scrub is also shorter and lighter and bigger mouth. Obviously, too many ways to do the same thing. :)

[Patrick Chase]

You are right. I have only wide blades, #4 1/2 and #5 1/2. Probably alright with #5 or #5-1/4W and high camber as a scrub. But Veritas Scrub is also shorter and lighter and bigger mouth. Obviously, too many ways to do the same thing. :)

There's a trick to grinding a blade to efficiently take a narrow shaving from a wide plane.

The key thing to recognize is that you don't need to camber parts of the blade that won't be cutting. For example, if you have a 2.25" plane like Tim's BUJ but you only want to take <=1.5" shavings (which is pretty typical for roughing) then the outer 3/8" on each side of the blade will never touch wood.

You can therefore profile the leading edge so that it follows an arc of the desired radius through the central 1.5", but then continues straight (and tangent to the end of the arc, such that the edge profile is never concave) to the edge. You can create that shape more quickly and with less metal removed than if you tried to grind a uniform arc of the same radius from the center all the way to the edges.

[Mike Holbrook]

I find it a little odd that there seem to be a number of posters suggesting a #8 metal jointer here. I believe there are good woodworkers on these pages who do not even use a #7 but prefer a #6. Recently quite a few people have become fans of wood mid size/try planes with double irons for jointing. Of those who have planes longer than 22" I suspect quite a few are using wood planes.

The #8's job, one might think, would be to surface long large pieces. I suspect that even on this hand tool centric forum you might find that people doing large jobs like that would use a planer. There are reasonably priced small "lunch box" planers that many people use for these jobs. I suspect that there are many more posters who's largest metal plane is a #7, #6, mid to large wood plane. I doubt many on these pages use a metal #8 on a regular basis. In some of the more recent posts on jointing, experienced posters revealed that they use shorter, down to #3 & #4, planes to joint small pieces.

I also suspect that BU planes do a great deal more jointing than recent posts might lead one to believe. Certainly chip breakers have become very popular for some good reasons. However, for most popular woods I think the BU planes do a very respectable job. I suspect that the ability to maintain a very sharp blade and familiarity with a specific tool are more important than whether or not the plane is BU or BD. As Derek mentions in an earlier post the new Custom #7 by LV, which has all the features of the LV BU planes plus a chip breaker, would have to be considered a contender for the most versatile long jointer.

[Maurice Ungaro]

Let me get this straight- this is your GIRLFRIEND, and you have a limit of $600? My WIFE gives me a limit of $100. My suggestion is MARRY THAT GIRL!!!!!

I have the Veritas bevel-up planes; all of them. I love them. I love that I can have three irons sharpened at three different angles and cover soft woods to figured hardwoods. I also love the toothed blade, which I now use quite a bit.

That said, I am saving up to buy a LN #8 because I long for a bigger, chunkier jointer for larger surfaces. I don't have a powered jointer either, and what I do is joint it by hand, then use a thickness planer to match the other side. You don't have to perfectly joint it smooth- just joint it so that it lays flat when it goes through the planer, then flip it over once you have thicknessed it and one more pass to touch up your hand jointing. After that I smooth by hand. For my Roubo build I did all the edge jointing by hand, but I admit for the top I gave up shortly and loaded everything in the Jeep and took it to the big shop where I have access to lots of tool drool and used a big powered jointer. That's only because of SO MANY board feet to joint.

SO... get a jointer, and if any money left, get a good block plane. The 60 1/2 is good, and the apron plane is also good. The difference is the apron plane doesn't have an adjustable mouth. I find I really do not need the adjustable mouth that much and I wind up using the apron plane more than the larger adjustable one.

If you really want to spend some money, the plane(s) that would be the last ones I would ever give up if forced to sell everything would be the Veritas skewed rabbeting block plane set. (2 planes- L & R). They are so versatile that I find them to be the best $350(ish) I've spent so far.

Now, back to this girlfriend- do you know what a good thing you have here? You do realize that now that you've posted this all over the internet there are going to be potential suitors busting down her door. I suggest you buy a ring as fast as you can and seal that deal.

Everything that Malcolm said, particularly about the wife's birthday budget. Definitely the trio of LV BU planes plus a good block plane. I have the standard LV low angle block plane with the optional tote and knob. Makes it like a small smoother to boot.

As for your hand planing skills: read up; watch the pros, and practice, practice, practice. FWIW, my wife loves the little curls of fire starter that my hand planing produces.

[Jim Koepke]

I suspect that there are many more posters who's largest metal plane is a #7, #6, mid to large wood plane. I doubt many on these pages use a metal #8 on a regular basis. In some of the more recent posts on jointing, experienced posters revealed that they use shorter, down to #3 & #4, planes to joint small pieces.



My #6 gets a lot of work, but so does my #8. Just for the educational value last week a #3 was given a shot at some jointing of a longer piece.

For smaller pieces a #5 or #5-1/4 are excellent for jointing.

The difference for most people is they do not want to have one of each available so they 'pick their fleet' and work at getting those planes to do the job.

I really do like my LN #62. Occasionally it does get some jointing work but mostly it is my shooting plane.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

My 607 Bedrock is used occasionally, my #6 Bailey never is used, my 604 and 605 are used occaisonally.

My #5 1/2 Bailey is used frequently and my #3 Bailey is my most used plane.

I will not part with any of them.:)

[Patrick Chase]

I find it a little odd that there seem to be a number of posters suggesting a #8 metal jointer here. I believe there are good woodworkers on these pages who do not even use a #7 but prefer a #6. Recently quite a few people have become fans of wood mid size/try planes with double irons for jointing. Of those who have planes longer than 22" I suspect quite a few are using wood planes.

The #8's job, one might think, would be to surface long large pieces. I suspect that even on this hand tool centric forum you might find that people doing large jobs like that would use a planer. There are reasonably priced small "lunch box" planers that many people use for these jobs. I suspect that there are many more posters who's largest metal plane is a #7, #6, mid to large wood plane. I doubt many on these pages use a metal #8 on a regular basis. In some of the more recent posts on jointing, experienced posters revealed that they use shorter, down to #3 & #4, planes to joint small pieces.


The reason the #8 has been discussed so much in this thread is because the OP specifically asked about it all the way back in #1. Folks are simply trying to be helpful and answer his questions as he posed them.

The difference in "ideal workpiece length" between a #6 and a #8 isn't all that huge. The #6 is 18" long and IMO is ideal for jointing pieces 18-36" long, the 8 is 24" long and ideal for 24-48" pieces. It's more a question of preference and working style.


I also suspect that BU planes do a great deal more jointing than recent posts might lead one to believe. Certainly chip breakers have become very popular for some good reasons. However, for most popular woods I think the BU planes do a very respectable job. I suspect that the ability to maintain a very sharp blade and familiarity with a specific tool are more important than whether or not the plane is BU or BD. As Derek mentions in an earlier post the new Custom #7 by LV, which has all the features of the LV BU planes plus a chip breaker, would have to be considered a contender for the most versatile long jointer.

You can joint with basically any plane, including ones that most folks would consider far too short. You're right that if the wood has straight, favorably oriented grain then the chipbreaker isn't necessary. Keep in mind however that the OP already has a BU Jack, so he's already covered in the "large BU plane" department.

I'm not sure what you mean by "has all the features" as those are VERY different planes. The #7 is more top-heavy with a higher "center of effort", and it can't go as low in terms of cutting angle (though it can get down to 40 deg with custom a frog, which is pretty impressive).

[paul cottingham]

You absolutely can't go wrong with a set of bevel up planes, especially a jointer and a jack. If I was starting over, I would seriously consider a jointer and a jack in the new LV customizable planes, which allows you to change them later for other needs.

[Mike Holbrook]

I made my comments about the #8, knowing the OP specifically asked about it. I was specifically thinking that he might want a larger perspective regarding the #8 related to general use and the planes he has. He actually mentioned the LV BU jointer and jack plane first.

Certainly the new Custom Veritas planes bare much more in common with their predecessor BU family members than Stanley type planes. The OP apparently has a Veritas BU plane now and would have some familiarity with the adjustment system and features. He apparently has access to other LV planes too, so he can try them before buying.

Patrick it is good to know I got at least one out of three of my comments to the OP half "right" in your opinion ;-) Maybe it would be more appropriate to address your comments to the OP instead of correcting and editing other posters.