pulling the plug on a table saw

[jeff oldham]

well I have been looking at all the table saws out there and im seriously considering biting the bullet and getting the saw stop table saw,,i like the others and especially the grizzly,,which is only a fraction of the cost of the saw stop,,and im sure both will do the same thing and other than the safety feature on the saw stop,,which is a big plus for me,,,both seem compariable,,,I wish that someone else had the same safety feature as the saw stop but I don't know of any,,but I guess its like the old adage,,,you get what you pay for,,and the one I was actually looking at is the professional cabinet saw with the 1.75 motor and the 30 inch rip,,can anyone elorabate on this topic or tell me your feelings about this,,thank you

[Andrew Hughes]

Oh man here goes another tablesaw thread.Its probably gonna be a great saw for you.Any tablesaw can be a pro saw if you can make money with it right.
Dont over think it just get it and put your energy toward your projects.

Aj

[J.R. Rutter]

ok,,lighthearted stuff first,,if you rely on the power cord for a safety feature,,,DO NOT use twist lock plugs

But seriously, what are you going to use the saw for? That's the first question to answer to decide what motor and fence is most appropriate.

If the safety brake is very important, then that answers your question on brand. If you are careful and don't have kids or friends who will be using the saw, then maybe a traditional saw would be fine as long as you learn how to use it safely.

[Malcolm McLeod]

"I can't imagine you'll get much feedback here," he said. Hopefully? (tongue planted firmly in cheek)

[Ben Rivel]

Grizzly might make on paper specs look the same as a SawStop, but safety feature aside the fit and finish of a SawStop is worlds above any other competitor IMO.

Regarding which to get, go with the 36" as the better fence it comes with is IMO a required upgrade. The fence that comes with the 30" is pretty well disliked.

[Jebediah Eckert]

OH :eek:

This is going to be an adventure...........

[Prashun Patel]

If you have the ability to run 220v, then I'd get the 3hp PCS. It will make cutting thicker stock easier. I functioned perfectly fine on a 1.75hp Jet for a few years, but the 3hp PCS cuts easier for me.

Put the safety feature aside. It's not a topic for debate; some believe it critical, some believe it not worth it. Neither camp will be convinced. Have your own opinion about that value and let's all keep that debate to the archives.

As for the fit and finish of the SawStop, I vouch that it's very good in pretty much all respects from accuracy to power and ease of using features like the riving knife. Know that if you like to use dados on the table saw, you will require a separate brake cartridge for that. This was enough of a turn off for me (not the cost, but the effort) that I don't dado on the saw any more.

People rave about SS's dust collection. I think it's mediocre, but that's because my dust collector is probably underpowered. I cannot say it's any worse than any other tool I have. Just don't compare it to a tablesaw with Sharkguard.

[John TenEyck]

My two cents is it would either be the SawStop or a slider if I wanted to buy new. The safety feature of the SS and the inherent safety of a slider would sway me to one of the two. If I were going to rely only on my training and common sense, as I currently do, I would buy a used saw. Way more bang for your $'s. And with luck, you could still have a SawStop or slider!

John

[Dan Friedrichs]

The fit and finish on the SS will be much, much better than the comparable grizzly.

The resale value of the SS will be much, much higher, should you ever decide to upgrade or liquidate.

[Erik Loza]

I wish everyone here could go to an industry show like AWFS in Vegas or IWF in Atlanta, because you could see every machine you could ever imagine, side by side. No glossy catalogs, no marketing hype. You can actually touch them all. Wouldn't that be awesome?

Back to the OP's question, the SS has the nicest fit and finish of any of the cabinmet-type saws out there. Whether it's right for you is not for me to say but it's definitely the most polished and professional looking cabinet saw out there. Just my 2-cents.

Erik

[mreza Salav]

Good advice all around. If you are sold on the brand go for it, you won't regret it.
My only comment is, try to step up to the 3HP, you won't regret that either (but you're likely to regret of not going).
Get the T-glide fence, I think it is standard with the PCS model.

[Art Mann]

If the safety feature will make you a more confident woodworker, then you will enjoy it more and it is worth the extra cost. I had 30+ years to become confident in using table saws before Sawstop was invented.

[Bill McNiel]

If the safety feature will make you a more confident woodworker, then you will it more and it is worth the extra cost. I had 30+ years to become confident in using table saws before Sawstop was invented.

Art nailed it, my thoughts put succinctly.

[Ronald Blue]

+2 on what Art said. No need to bring out the club and bash Grizzly. Whichever one Jeff decides on will do well for him.

[ken carroll]

I guess if the safety aspect is worth $2000 dollars to you then you should buy the SS. Or choose a safer hobby. Otherwise Grizzly makes a fine tablesaw.

[Martin Wasner]

I'd look for a used quality saw if you have a way to get it in. Tannewitz, Northfield, Oliver, etc. A lot less money, infinitely better than any other option currently available.

[Ed Wood]

The saw stop is of course a safe saw but in 30+ years of using a table saw only had 1 real injury ,I miter cut the tip of 1 finger and that was because I took a unsafe short cut. Look at all your options and choose the best saw for the work you do.

[Rod Sheridan]

Jeff, my first choice would be a small Euro slider for many reasons.

If it has to be a cabinet saw, then the SS is first on the list...............Regards, Rod.

[Jim Dwight]

You did not comment on space but I think that is a critical variable. I used to use a saw with greater than 50 inch rip capacity and I made a lot of furniture on it for my own use. But I struggled to use it in a 1 car garage shop. Now I use a track saw and a 24 inch rip capacity table saw. These work much better in a little bit smaller shop. If you have the space, a slider or a big capacity table saw is nice. But if your shop is small, I would look for a track saw and smaller table saw, regardless of brand. My saw is a Ryobi BT3100 which is much smaller than the saws you are considering. With it, I've made 7 bedroom sets, 3 kitchen sets etc.. You do not need a huge saw but you need one with a rip fence that stays parallel to the blade, The track saw is safer than the table saw so that may also be a factor for you.

[Rick Potter]

May I suggest you check out Mike Henderson's recent thread "Free SS brake". We all like to think it will never happen to us, but as they say...stuff happens.

I had a slider (Felder), and it is a great saw for sheet goods. I simply preferred using the cabinet saw. I now have a SS, which is also a very nice saw.

[scott spencer]

The safety technology is a personal choice, and is hard to put a meaningful value on because it's different for each of us. In the $1600 range, IMHO you get a more substantial saw with Grizzly than SawStop. Grizzly offers a very good 3hp industrial cabinet saw with a full enclosure, solid cast wings, and excellent fence for < $1600. In the same price range, SS offers a well made contractor saw with a lame fence and steel wings....figure closer to $2k to add the T-Glide fence and solid cast wings to make it a really nice saw that most of us would be happy with.

Once you jump closer the $3k range, the SS gets more competitive IMO. If you have 220v available, I'd definitely upgrade to the 3hp motor and the better fence...you'll have an awesome lifetime saw that'll make you happy every time you use. You might like the 1.75hp just fine, but the fence and smaller motor may pose more limitations....I just don't know if trying to save a few hundred bucks for the smaller motor and lesser fence makes sense here if you have 220v....just my 2 cents.

[glenn bradley]

Even before I was an owner I could not figure out why folks love to dislike the Saw Stop. If they were being forced like some states do with seat belts or helmets I could see it. I know people who want to not wear their seat belt just because it is required; they actually have no problem with the safety device. No one is forcing the Saw Stop issue. It is just a safety device that one can choose or not. You do have to pay for that feature.

Since the OP is asking about relatively low priced cabinet saws I will resist the urge to shout out "slider!" like a drunken football fan bellowing "Ray-derrzzz!". Sliders are sweet, no doubt. Since Jeff is comparing sub-$3K saws I don't think they apply.

All that being said I would like to know the saws you are trying to compare. My guess is the 1.75HP Saw Stop PCS and the 1.75HP Grizzly hybrid. I guess I should qualify my extreme prejudice ;); I have Grizzly, Jet, Delta, De Walt, Saw Stop. etc. in my shop. New and old, large and small . . . my point being that my paint preference is pretty much non-existent so you won't hear me chanting "Powermatic-Powermatic" no matter what tool you want to discuss :). Many makers have a few tools in their line up that hit the sweet spot in price, quality and performance regardless of paint or point of origin.

Like Prashun, my 1.75HP saw did all I ever asked of it. It required careful setup and a well learned application of load but, it would do most anything. My 3HP Saw Stop does the same but, with more ease which equates to cleaner work and more confidence in a given operation. If you are leaning towards thriftiness the Grizzly will give you the best bang for the buck at a low price point. Not an equal "bang" but a good one.

If you are going to consider the Saw Stop price point I would bypass the 1.75 motor. With a few exceptions you will be told to get the better fence which nudges you so close to the cost of the 3HP that getting the lower powered saw makes no sense to me (YMMV). For less than you spend on coffee or beer in a year you can close the gap and have the more powerful saw for the rest of your life. If you're still with me you are starting to see how my twisted mind is able to talk me into almost anything :D.

[Ronald Blue]

Even before I was an owner I could not figure out why folks love to dislike the Saw Stop. If they were being forced like some states do with seat belts or helmets I could see it. I know people who want to not wear their seat belt just because it is required; they actually have no problem with the safety device. No one is forcing the Saw Stop issue. It is just a safety device that one can choose or not. You do have to pay for that feature.

Since the OP is asking about relatively low priced cabinet saws I will resist the urge to shout out "slider!" like a drunken football fan bellowing "Ray-derrzzz!". Sliders are sweet, no doubt. Since Jeff is comparing sub-$3K saws I don't think they apply.

All that being said I would like to know the saws you are trying to compare. My guess is the 1.75HP Saw Stop PCS and the 1.75HP Grizzly hybrid. I guess I should qualify my extreme prejudice ;); I have Grizzly, Jet, Delta, De Walt, Saw Stop. etc. in my shop. New and old, large and small . . . my point being that my paint preference is pretty much non-existent so you won't hear me chanting "Powermatic-Powermatic" no matter what tool you want to discuss :). Many makers have a few tools in their line up that hit the sweet spot in price, quality and performance regardless of paint or point of origin.

Like Prashun, my 1.75HP saw did all I ever asked of it. It required careful setup and a well learned application of load but, it would do most anything. My 3HP Saw Stop does the same but, with more ease which equates to cleaner work and more confidence in a given operation. If you are leaning towards thriftiness the Grizzly will give you the best bang for the buck at a low price point. Not an equal "bang" but a good one.

If you are going to consider the Saw Stop price point I would bypass the 1.75 motor. With a few exceptions you will be told to get the better fence which nudges you so close to the cost of the 3HP that getting the lower powered saw makes no sense to me (YMMV). For less than you spend on coffee or beer in a year you can close the gap and have the more powerful saw for the rest of your life. If you're still with me you are starting to see how my twisted mind is able to talk me into almost anything :D.

Glenn your opinion means much more because you qualify it with experience and don't instantly go into bash mode. In fact you don't bash anyone. I hope whatever Jeff decides on gives him years of solid reliable performance. Opinions mean so much more when they are tied to experience. I don't have hands on experience with either saw and won't jump into that fray. For the most part this has been a civil and informative thread.

[Guy Belleman]

I had a large unisaw I loved, then I moved and got a Grizzly 1023rl with smaller rails and in moving again got the Grizzly 0690 and it is a wonderful saw as well. Have taught classes in a center that had well used, but still functional unisaws. All met my needs, while teaching good technique to others. I do like the riving knife on the newer Grizzly, which will see me to the end.

[Mike Henderson]

May I suggest you check out Mike Henderson's recent thread "Free SS brake". We all like to think it will never happen to us, but as they say...stuff happens.

I had a slider (Felder), and it is a great saw for sheet goods. I simply preferred using the cabinet saw. I now have a SS, which is also a very nice saw.

Yep, I'd definitely recommend the purchase of a SawStop. I'd be missing the end of my thumb if I didn't have one.

Think of it as buying an insurance policy that you only have to make one payment on - and then it protects you for life.

Mike

[Brian Henderson]

The saw stop is of course a safe saw but in 30+ years of using a table saw only had 1 real injury ,I miter cut the tip of 1 finger and that was because I took a unsafe short cut. Look at all your options and choose the best saw for the work you do.

Sawstop might be a really great saw, but people pretend that just because it has that one safety feature, they don't actually have to be safe when using it. I can't tell you how many people I see, especially on YouTube, who use a Sawstop and then immediately take off the blade guard and go shoving wood through the blade with wild abandon with their fingers mere inches from spinning death because they think that having that single safety feature will save them. It won't.

The most important safety feature out there is in your head. Don't do stupid stuff. Don't make unsafe cuts. Those of us who have done this for a long, long time have learned how to make safe cuts and use all of the safety equipment that a saw has to offer, or even innovate our own, because we were responsible for our own safety. I think a lot of people today never learn those lessons because they've been indoctrinated to think that the saw is supposed to do it for them, but that's not how it works You are responsible for your own safety and if you learn those lessons, you don't need a Sawstop. If you have the money and are getting it for the fit and finish, which are excellent and I'm not taking anything away from the saw for that, fine. But thinking that the saw makes learning how to actually use the machine safely irrelevant is just wrong.

[Chris Padilla]

Grizzly: best bang for the buck no doubt (I have a 2000 model...zero complaints..3 hp)
SS: great safety features, great fit and finish...very fine saw...price is up there and near a low-end'ish slider

Judging by the fact that you are considering a sub 2 hp saw, I'm guessing you are a hobbyist. You didn't really mention what your plans are for your saw. Is there something specific you have in mind for its task or is it a general sawdust maker for whatever come up?

[Matt Day]

Am I the only one who thinks the title was supposed to be "Pulling the TRIGGER on a table saw"?

I thought this thread was going to be about a table saw-less shop.

[J.R. Rutter]

1. Select metaphors
2. Mix well
3. ???
4. Profit

[Prashun Patel]

...or "PUTTING IN plugs FOR YOUR tablesaw"

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Summary:



SS better fit and finish, has the brake, more expensive
Grizzly saw is a great is less expensive but a great saw
If the brake is not important to you, look at used
Consider a slider since it has some level built-in safety not available on a regular saw


Not yet stated (I don't think):

SS has exceptional support. When my saw failed (A capacitor failed on the motor after some years of use), I called support, spoke to a human, and we resolved the problem immediately. Expect top level support after the sale.
Grizzly, well, I have no experience, but I have heard good things about their support, perhaps someone can be more precise about this.
SS probably has the best assembly / setup instructions in the business.
When the saw saves your finger, well, you just can't beat that.
When the saw saves a bit of aluminum or some very web lumber, it is annoying to have to replace the brake and your blade.
For SS, you can probably stop in at a dealer and touch it before you buy it. This is more difficult (but not impossible) with Grizzly.



Ignoring the fact that there are a bunch of great saws, the blade brake was a primary motivator for me.

If I were looking at a saw without a brake, I would first look at the used market, but, I would be sure that the saw had certain safety features like an easy to replace riven knife, which help reduce problems such as kickback, which is probably more likely without the safety features than a blade hit against your hand.

[Martin Wasner]

If you're going to experiment with carbide versus flesh, you have to buy a Sawstop. Plain and simple.

I don't buy it being a quality saw. It's okay, but it doesn't blow my hair back. It's comparable to middle ground saws like a Powermatic 66. A shop a used to work for bought a few to save money on insurance, and there was constant problems with them. Might be completely different experience for a hobbyist though. It's not on par with a Northfield, Oliver, or Tammy for smoothness, which if your patient can be had for next to nothing.

[Chris Parks]

I wish that someone else had the same safety feature as the saw stop but I don't know of any,

Don't Bosch now market a saw that offers the same safety features?

[J.R. Rutter]

A shop a used to work for bought a few to save money on insurance, and there was constant problems with them. Might be completely different experience for a hobbyist though. It's not on par with a Northfield, Oliver, or Tammy for smoothness, which if your patient can be had for next to nothing.

I'm not sure that I would just turn anyone loose on using and maintaining one. The main fiddly thing is blade changes and adjusting the brake after sharpening. Mine is a bit underpowered at 3 HP for things like resawing and tends to fill up with sawdust despite a strong collection system. Other than that, it has run for 5 years or so with no issues in my commercial shop. Agree that big old industrial tools can be restored to amazing level of quality. But OP was considering buying his first saw, so I imagine he is not the ideal candidate.

[Ben Rivel]

Don't Bosch now market a saw that offers the same safety features?
Only in a jobsite saw. Nothing offered in a hybrid or cabinet saw. SawStop is still the only one.

[Brian Henderson]

Don't Bosch now market a saw that offers the same safety features?


In fact, theirs is superior because the brake doesn't destroy the blade.

[Ben Rivel]

In fact, theirs is superior because the brake doesn't destroy the blade.
Yep, also costs more too by several hundred if I remember correctly.

[Ronald Mancini]

I recommend buying the best used saw that meets or surpasses your needs. Then buy the manual, take it apart, clean and adjust all parts, and put it back together. You probably will have to make some changes to the saw after you have used it for a while, new fence, outfeed table, etc., but now it will suit your purposes much better. The safety problem tends to be in favor of the saw stop, but this factor is minimal. If you always stand to one side of the blade, only raise the blade high enough to just clear the wood being cut, use hold downs and feather boards, and insure that binding can not occur your finger cuts will be small ones that can be quickly fixed with a band aid. For complete safety and convenience get a stock feeder; your fingers can't get into the blade with a stock feeder and it makes a repetitive job much easier. Finally, if you do nick a finger band aid it and keep working; with saw stop you are in for down time and big bucks.

[Raymond Seward]

FWIW I have a 1 3/4 HP SawStop Cabinet saw. If you plan on ripping fairly thick stock on a regular basis go for the 3HP saw. If I had it to do over again I would have got the 3HP.

[Clin Lashway]

I went through this same exercise about a year ago. Settled on the SS 3HP PCS. I don't regret spending ~$3,500 (I got the ICS mobile base, and overhead dust collection, 36" T-glide). The more I use it, the more I appreciate it. In comparing to other saws, like a Delta, it seemed to me the safety feature was about a $500 premium.

As far as the argument that if you do everything correctly, you don't need the safety brake. Well, same can be said for driving a car I guess. But we are all human and everyone of us is capable of making a mistake. Who here hasn't accidentally ran a stop sign or red light. Mistakes do happen and I do not hold myself out to be perfect and accept the fact I am as capable as the the next guy to have a brain fade and do something wrong.

Concerning being consciously unsafe, because the SawStop will save me, I know I don't think that way. I rarely think about the brake. Remember, if nothing else, you're looking at $60 for a brake and about the same for a medium quality blade. That's motivation enough not to be casual with how you work with the saw. Do you drive more recklessly because you have airbags? And really, who the heck doesn't look at that spinning blade and think "Keep your fingers out of that, no matter what."

I also don't think anyone is stupid for buying or not buying one. Lot's off people have used table saws without this feature and lived to tell the tale. I do know it helped me get spouse approval when I explained the options. "Get that one you said won't cut off your fingers." SOLD!

[Frank Pratt]

[QUOTE= I do know it helped me get spouse approval when I explained the options. "Get that one you said won't cut off your fingers." SOLD![/QUOTE]

I bet SawStop has sold more saws because of the Spouse Acceptance Factor than any other feature :)

[jessie hachey]

I wouldn't buy SawStop. I mean the safety is nice if you don't ever use the override, but if you dont override, and you happen to cut a damp piece of wood there goes about $350+ (for the blades I use, plus cartridge).

I bough a CanTek from Akhurst machinery. 12" blade, 5hp, 220v single phase motor, $2650 CAD delivered to my door on a lift gate truck. Lots of balls. the equivilant SawStop was almost $7000 CAD. And that's their top of the line. I can get my CanTek saw model up to 10hp, and 16" blade. Overall, just built for more industrial application.