PDA

View Full Version : Any guess as to what type of metal this is?



Jacob John
05-22-2016, 10:08 PM
If any of you have been to EPCOT, there's a section called "Leave a Legacy" where families could have their photos placed on this metal. The first thing I'm trying to figure out is what type of metal is this?

337927
337928

Second, if you can tell from the images what type of metal this is, where would I purchase a blank, let's say, 6" X 6" blank? Lastly, what would you mark this with (Cermark, Thermark)?

The story is my best friend lost his dad 2 days ago, and I'm wanting to replicate this from a pic that I have of this. He and his dad were huge Disney fans, and he loves the pic. These tiles are very small (maybe 2" x 2"), but I'm wanting to go 6" X 6" or possibly larger. I would like to give this to him as a memorial type of gift, but this is not an area that I have any knowledge of.

My guesses are either stainless steel or aluminum.


Thanks!

Kev Williams
05-22-2016, 10:27 PM
based on your closeup photo, it screams 'photo engraving' to me-- Which means the metal is photo-sensitive aluminum, and it appears they're oxidizing the raised spots...

Jacob John
05-22-2016, 10:43 PM
Whatever it is, it's very durable because it's out in the elements 24/7. For this gift though, It's going to be framed. It doesn't have to be exact I guess, but I want it to look as close to it as I can get it. :)

Dave Sheldrake
05-22-2016, 11:10 PM
I'm with Kev, doesn't look like a laser process to me although given that it's Epcot it could have been done with a Neutron collider :)

Jacob John
05-23-2016, 7:37 AM
I'm with Kev, doesn't look like a laser process to me although given that it's Epcot it could have been done with a Neutron collider :)

Tomorrowland is real!

I guess the bottom line is, can I replicate this look with a laser, some Cer/Thermark, and either a blank of stainless or aluminum? I think so, but this is not the type of engraving I normally do. :)

Update: So someone that is very familiar with Disney says that it's supposed to be stainless steel. One step closer!

Charles Wiggins
05-23-2016, 9:12 AM
Whatever it is, it's very durable because it's out in the elements 24/7.


Aluminum fits that bill. It usually develops a dull grey patina of oxidation on the surface, and that's it. It doesn't continue to corrode like many ferrous alloys.

Jacob John
05-23-2016, 9:40 AM
Aluminum fits that bill. It usually develops a dull grey patina of oxidation on the surface, and that's it. It doesn't continue to corrode like many ferrous alloys.

That's what makes me doubt that it's stainless. Reminds me of old fishing equipment as it stays out in the weather.

Does anyone have any tips/suggestions on lasering am image like that? I know it isn't the same process, but I'm sure I can get close.

AL Ursich
05-23-2016, 3:51 PM
I think it this old process.... http://www.directcolorsystems.com/applications/anodized-aluminum-printing/

Mike Null
05-23-2016, 4:53 PM
I'd lean toward MetalPhoto.

Jacob John
05-23-2016, 7:11 PM
I think it this old process.... http://www.directcolorsystems.com/applications/anodized-aluminum-printing/

Don't turn me on to any more potential business expansions! :D

Anyone want to take a shot at tips on how to attempt replicating it with the Speedy? Any direct, low minimum order, metal plate distributors out there?

Ernie Balch
05-23-2016, 7:51 PM
I agree with Metal photo. A photographic emulsion coated on aluminum. Exposed and developed like photographic paper then boiled in a salt solution to form an anodized layer over the the surface. It is very durable and will last a long time outside.

Mike Null
05-23-2016, 8:12 PM
Jacob
Your best chance with your laser is with stainless steel and Cermark. There are local distributors who can supply the metal. I'd be inclined to ask for ss with a #4 brush finish though you can get a mill finish if you choose.

Kev Williams
05-23-2016, 11:43 PM
Those pictures can be done on stainless or aluminum using Cermark, would be pretty easy actually. The hard part is getting your photo to look like those, but lets see...

Ok, I took this picture:

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/Branjie1.jpg


and a half hour later I came up with this...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/branjie2.jpg


I'm not all that great with fixing photos, but not bad? I used Corel PaintShopPro x4, it does a great job of removing the background- Getting the 'coloring book' look was a bit tough and took the most time. "Chisel" did the outline, which is a good thing or there wouldn't have been any!

This just Cermark on a small beat-up piece of mill finish stainless. I could do the same on aluminum with the Triumph. I engrave a lot of aluminum with Cermark, but only my 80w Triumph will do it. Taking some aluminum and micro-bead blasting it would look just like the 'metal in question'... If you have it Chem-filmed it'll be fine forever in the weather... :) --would be no problem to upsize to 6x6 either...

Jacob John
05-24-2016, 10:15 AM
Those pictures can be done on stainless or aluminum using Cermark, would be pretty easy actually. The hard part is getting your photo to look like those, but lets see...

Ok, I took this picture:

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/Branjie1.jpg


and a half hour later I came up with this...

http://www.engraver1.com/erase2/branjie2.jpg


I'm not all that great with fixing photos, but not bad? I used Corel PaintShopPro x4, it does a great job of removing the background- Getting the 'coloring book' look was a bit tough and took the most time. "Chisel" did the outline, which is a good thing or there wouldn't have been any!

This just Cermark on a small beat-up piece of mill finish stainless. I could do the same on aluminum with the Triumph. I engrave a lot of aluminum with Cermark, but only my 80w Triumph will do it. Taking some aluminum and micro-bead blasting it would look just like the 'metal in question'... If you have it Chem-filmed it'll be fine forever in the weather... :) --would be no problem to upsize to 6x6 either...

That looks pretty good! I'm going to give it a shot this weekend and see how it comes out. I only have a pic of the finished image though, so I wonder how the machine will handle it, considering it isn't the highest quality image. We'll see soon

Kev Williams
05-24-2016, 11:33 AM
For what it's worth, here's some of the various stages of fixing the photo--

Removed background-
338014


grayscale--
338016


added 'chisel' outline
338019


adjusted brightess/contrast (shot in the dark stuff!)
338017

more contrast adjustments, reduced to 4 colors, cleaned up the chiseled edges-- this is what I engraved from
338024


--- I'm sure some people, and/or programs can get close to my final result very quickly with a good 'coloring book' routine...

Jacob John
05-24-2016, 6:10 PM
So a quick update, Disney went above and beyond, searched through their archives and found both the source photo and tile photo. We're talking about pics from 14 years ago, from a program that ended in 2007. I can't wait to give it a shot and I'll post the pics once I'm done. Can't wait!

Jacob John
05-25-2016, 3:52 PM
Anyone have any suggestions on cutting. 025" (.635mm) thick aluminum? I don't think hand shears will work.

Mike Null
05-25-2016, 4:36 PM
You can cut .040" aluminum with engraver's type metal shears. Here's a good one from Johnson Plastics

http://www.johnsonplastics.com/engraving/engraving-equipment/table-shears-parts/accu-cutter-12-metal-shear

Bert Kemp
05-25-2016, 5:12 PM
do you mean .25 alum how bout a Jig saw or scroll saw with fine tooth metal blade I cut .125 steel on my scrollsaw

Anyone have any suggestions on cutting. 025" (.635mm) thick aluminum? I don't think hand shears will work.

Jacob John
05-25-2016, 10:51 PM
do you mean .25 alum how bout a Jig saw or scroll saw with fine tooth metal blade I cut .125 steel on my scrollsaw

The product description says .025". It's LaserBlak sheets. I bought an 14 gauge electric metal shear and it was garbage, but this is a one off memorial gift so it's not a huge deal I guess. If I ever decide to do this for my business, I'm going to buy a more precise piece of equipment. :)

Ross Moshinsky
05-25-2016, 11:34 PM
The product description says .025". It's LaserBlak sheets. I bought an 14 gauge electric metal shear and it was garbage, but this is a one off memorial gift so it's not a huge deal I guess. If I ever decide to do this for my business, I'm going to buy a more precise piece of equipment. :)

You could have used a utility knife and straight edge to make the "cut". Then just sand the edges down a bit.

tommy suriady
05-28-2016, 10:20 PM
Try aluminium. Spray paint it with spray paint all around to the back and side. And then mark it with laser. Low power. Just enough to remove paint chose one with your needed durability rating.

After getting the right image, but not in reverse, you go get some NaOH, soda ash, i think... u can get from supermarkets. Those that

Mix with water. Need not be particular with concentration. Just dump till it is warm and not too hot. Just normal room temp water to warm and immerse. U will see hydrogen. It is reacting with the alum. Open room is good for explosion prevention. And please dont smoke while doing this.

The NaOH will not affect paint. But will eat away aluminium, giving a very beautifully clean satin finish. Keep agitating to prevent pitting and dimpling and to speed up process.

3 minutes or until you get it deep enough. Quench with lotsa cool water and you are done.

Kev Williams
05-31-2016, 12:27 PM
Marco, and I suppose other suppliers, sell an outdoor gloss black laserable aluminum-- PN 8114-6 on page 24 in the 2016 Marco catalog--

I've been using this stuff for a couple of years, it's perfect for this- it's .040" thick, the gloss black surface is close to semi-gloss in my opinion- lasers easily and the resuting silver isn't all that glossy. You would simply need to run the engraving in negative leave the black remaining while the laser creates the 'white'.

Jacob John
06-02-2016, 9:47 PM
Thanks everyone. I ended up using the LaserBlak and it came out great. The cut was pretty much garbage, but since I ended up framing and matting it, you don't see the edges anyway. I'll try and post a few pics soon. I'll be giving it to him this weekend.