Clean up /suck broom

[Mike Holbrook]

I am about to toss two depot brand vacs an 18 gallon Lowes monster and a smaller Shop Vac. The plastic is brittle and falling apart. I tend to sneeze and get nasal irritation from shop dust. It seems that larger capacity vacs suck air through all the dust etc. in the bag and stink things up, even if they are filtering the dust. I am thinking about something not so big. I also want something that can move between benches, cabinets, tool stands...better than a big monster vac. Something with good attachments and a decent hose.

I also have a Festool CT22 which I use with my Festool tools. The CT22 is great at what it was designed to do but the attachment system,capacity and mobility may not be the best for general clean up. I was checking out Fein's but I understand the new models are not what the older ones are.

I am wondering what fellow posters use?

[Brian Holcombe]

I use the festool but only after throwing away the bulk of the shavings by hand. The capacity is a little light, but the vacuum works well and is quiet.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Craftsman 350 horsepower turbocharged large vac. (Okay, so maybe it's only 6 "peak" horsepower.) Home Depot small vac. I really want this for nooks and crannies- http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M12-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Compact-Vacuum-Tool-Only-0850-20/205482386
hint dropped to wife already.

[george wilson]

All that "Peak horsepower " is a lot of bunk. It is impossible to run 6 HP on 15 amps@110 volts,period!! There just isn't enough amperage. Ever take an old vac apart and look at the armature of the motor? It will have a shaft of 1/4" to maybe 3/8"(and,that's hoping for too much!:)

If you want a DECENT vac that will be just as powerful as the biggest Sears vac,but not noisy at all,bite the bullet,save up your pennies,and get a FEIN vac. Not the smallest one,the mid size one. It comes with about a 1 1/2" LOOONG hose. But,what I like is that you can jam a plastic Sears 2 1/2" hose into the hole left when you take the original hose off( WHAT? Do they make SMALLER shavings in Europe?). I REALLY like that you can connect a sander to the plug in in the vac,hook up the sander's hose to the vac,and when you turn the sander on,the vac comes on. And it goes off a few seconds after you turn the sander off! I have used it with my Bosch electric planer(with the help of a few coils of sand paper). It effectively gets all the planer's chips!

[Derek Cohen]

I have both a 5 year-old Fein Dustex 25 and a newish Festool CT26E. The computer in the Fein packed in about 9 months ago, and the cost of a replacement was very high. Instead of going down that path with a machine that I was not altogether happy (noisier than advertised - I needed to wear hearing protection, and the shape made it more difficult to store), I bought the Festool. Ironically, I had a brainwave short after this, and by-passed the computer - now it works again, but in single speed and minus the automatic on-off.

The Festool is a great machine. Quiet - I do not need hearing protection. Much more suck than the Fein - I collapsed the bin for a Dust Deputy with the Festool, which I never could do with the Fein. The Festool also enables a long-life bag to be attached - expensive up front, but cheaper and easier in the long run.

After purchasing the Festool, I began to find a great many discussions on the Internet about its sensitivity to static. Apparently, the Festool is earthed differently to the Fein, and requires static-free hoses .... perhaps this is a bit of hysteria on the 'net. Even Dust Deputy came out with a black static-free model for the Festool. Personally, I do not buy into all this, and have never experienced static in the hoses, but then I do not run sanders, which are the main culprits.

Keep in mind as well is that the Festool is much more expensive than the Fein. Both are excellent. Still, the Festool is better.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

I must assume that anything Festool makes will be superior!!:) But,I haven't had a need for a more expensive vac than the Fein @ about $350.00(?). The Festool is close to TWICE that,and I don't know if it'll take the 2 1/2" hose like the Fein accidentally does.

My Fein HAS to be at least 25 years old,plus we used two of them for longer than that at the toolmaker's shop. They never have gone bad. I'll have to Google Fein Dustex 25. I didn't know my model had a computer in it. WHY does everything these days HAVE to have a computer in it? ARRRGH!

Edit: O.K.; looked up the Fein Dustex 25. It is starting to resemble the Festool(square!) I really prefer mine. I don't want to have to buy new bags whenever they get full. Mine just takes a Clean Stream filter,too. I put a cloth bag over that to catch most of the stuff and protect the rather expensive Clean Stream.

I HOPE my Fein(round shape) holds up!I don't know if the Dustex will accidentally accept the 2 1/2" hose,though I could machine an aluminum adapter if needed. But,you can't. Would a WOODEN one do?

I DO use the small diameter hose on portable power tools. Looks like the quality of the Dustex's hose has gone down hill a bit. Mine LOOKS(at least) better built(It's out in the shop,so a guess).


I'll have to look up what a Festool costs. By the way,I somehow have TWO of those $950.00 Fein half sheet sanders. They come with a CRAPPY looking bag that looks like plain cloth. I made an aluminum adapter for one so it will take the Fein hose(WHY doesn't this sander take the Fein hose to BEGIN WITH??? These sanders REALLY NEED the hose because they run 20,000(or more) RPM,and cut like a belt sander!! I'd NEVER,EVER go back to an ordinary 3000 RPM sander,like I used for years before.


Edit #2: Looked up Festool vacs Looks like you'll spend $600.00+ for a good model. For the Fein,$300.00+. They have all gone SQUARE!! WHY?; a ROUND one is easier to drag around obstacles in the cluttered shop. I don't care for the square shape AT ALL!

Well,I'm 75. Maybe the Fein will outlast me.:)

[Derek Cohen]

George, the Fein and Festool use the same size hoses, have the same fitting dimensions ... are pretty much interchangeable. The Festool comes supplied with a static-free hose - but it is too narrow (27mm) for much. At least 36mm is needed for most tasks. Of course the Festool hoses are pretty expensive! :)

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Ritter]

I run the Festool vacs in my shop but put in a separator so the bags don't fill up so fast. It's been years since I changed the bag and maintains better suction.
Jim

[george wilson]

But if I got a Festool,I'd be missing out on that GREAT orange color that Feins have!!:) I can use the Fein to frighten small children at Halloween!!:) What is it with the Germans about COLOR!!! Remember the HOT GREEN INCANDESCENT colors you'd see on some of their cars?

[Kirby Krieger]

I run the Festool vacs in my shop but put in a separator so the bags don't fill up so fast. It's been years since I changed the bag and maintains better suction.
Jim

Hi Jim,

Can you expand on your practice a little bit? Which separator; how set up? Mobile? Hose diameters? One to each dust-producing center? Gates?

Thanks. I'd like to take advantage of the current Festool vac sale, and use a separator, and I haven't worked out the details. Hearing from someone who has would be quite helpful.

—Kirby.

[John Schtrumpf]

I scoop up the shavings with a plastic dustpan, then I use a Dyson slim (I live in an apartment).

[Mike Holbrook]

Great discussion!
George, I have read that some woodworkers stopped using Fein because: they are no longer made by Fein in Germany but some large vacuum producer, they no longer have variable speed motors (not sure what this actually does for a woodworker)....I agree with you about the round design being better in a shop with lots of objects to maneuver around. The canister designs also tend to have four casters where the square designs tend to have two larger rear wheels that prefer moving straight forward. I imagine Festool uses the square designs so their systainers, sortainers and tools have a place to sit. My idea was to buy a canister type design like the Fein for general clean up. I am just concerned about the negative recent reviews I am seeing about the Fein vacuums. I realize though that the "features" some people hate may actually be a benefit to others.

Derek, I am going to be a nit picker here but, I think the Fein has a 35mm hose vs the 36 for the larger Festool hose. I have read a couple things that suggest that the Fein will work with "other 35mm" attachments but the Festool may not. I have not experimented as I do not have anything with a 35mm hose. I like to keep the 27mm hose on my vac most of the time as I use my T55 and Carvex saws regularly for construction projects. It is an inconvenience to switch hoses, especially when the attachments do not seem to fit the hose well. I am also reading that the newer Fein's actually have a lower db rating than the Festools. I also realize that much of the testing is designed to fog rather than clear up these issues.

I bought the expensive Festool stainless steel attachment kit. The 27mm hose seems to fit inside of Festool tool ports and the attachments. The 36mm hose I have, that came with the kit, seems to be designed to fit over the attachments but it is hard to slip over the collars on the stainless steel tubes. The 27mm slides inside fairly easily but it tends to come out during use too. I just searched Bob Marino's Festool site on the internet and I do not find an adapter. Maybe I should give Bob a call?

Jim, I am not sure what a separator is? Unless it allows use of the vacuum without a bag? I tend to have sneezing, from dust, so I am trying to eliminate as much of it as I can, which is why I have tried to use vacuums with bags that filter dust.

Yes, there is a Festool vac sale going on, which does get them closer to the Fein's price. It also frequently means Festool is about to come out with new models/designs.

[george wilson]

bad news about the Fein not being made in Germany any more. Now I must hope more than ever that mine holds up! I really don't want to have to spend the money for a Festool right now. We had to buy a Carrier air conditioner,heat pump and furnace for the house. And my wife fainted and fell on her face into the bathtub at midnight. Her stupid doctor casually recommended that she DOUBLE her sleeping pill amount. That was $8,000.00 in costs right there(plus a night in the emergency room! Fortunately,she broke nothing. But WHAT a bloody mess!

Too much happening as you can see. I'm not rich after a career in the museum. But,I got to do what I wanted to!

[Jim Ritter]

Hi Kirby, when I started my business 29 years ago I bought a canister ShopVac with a stainless steel canister, wheels, handle, etc. The motor finally crapped out so that part got tossed but I saved the canister. I made a plywood top with a hole in the center for the hose to the vacuum. The canister body has a hose fitting that angles on the inside setting up a cyclonic action. I did fit the underside of the plywood top with a regular ShopVac filter but plan to swap that out for a Thein baffle. It's easy to empty the canister so it gets emptied often. I can take some pics if necessary. No gates, it's mostly used with Festool sanders or direct vacuuming of small boat bilges, bench tops, occasionally floors but sweeping mostly suffices for the floor. Let me know if you want pics I'm heading to the shop soon.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Great discussion!
George, I have read that some woodworkers stopped using Fein because: they are no longer made by Fein in Germany but some large vacuum producer, they no longer have variable speed motors (not sure what this actually does for a woodworker)....I agree with you about the round design being better in a shop with lots of objects to maneuver around. The canister designs also tend to have four casters where the square designs tend to have two larger rear wheels that prefer moving straight forward. I imagine Festool uses the square designs so their systainers, sortainers and tools have a place to sit. My idea was to buy a canister type design like the Fein for general clean up. I am just concerned about the negative recent reviews I am seeing about the Fein vacuums. I realize though that the "features" some people hate may actually be a benefit to others.

Derek, I am going to be a nit picker here but, I think the Fein has a 35mm hose vs the 36 for the larger Festool hose. I have read a couple things that suggest that the Fein will work with "other 35mm" attachments but the Festool may not. I have not experimented as I do not have anything with a 35mm hose. I like to keep the 27mm hose on my vac most of the time as I use my T55 and Carvex saws regularly for construction projects. It is an inconvenience to switch hoses, especially when the attachments do not seem to fit the hose well. I am also reading that the newer Fein's actually have a lower db rating than the Festools. I also realize that much of the testing is designed to fog rather than clear up these issues.

I bought the expensive Festool stainless steel attachment kit. The 27mm hose seems to fit inside of Festool tool ports and the attachments. The 36mm hose I have, that came with the kit, seems to be designed to fit over the attachments but it is hard to slip over the collars on the stainless steel tubes. The 27mm slides inside fairly easily but it tends to come out during use too. I just searched Bob Marino's Festool site on the internet and I do not find an adapter. Maybe I should give Bob a call?

Jim, I am not sure what a separator is? Unless it allows use of the vacuum without a bag? I tend to have sneezing, from dust, so I am trying to eliminate as much of it as I can, which is why I have tried to use vacuums with bags that filter dust.

Yes, there is a Festool vac sale going on, which does get them closer to the Fein's price. It also frequently means Festool is about to come out with new models/designs.

Hi Mike

The Fein is definitely 36mm and the same size as the Festool. I have both machines, use both, and the hoses are completely interchangeable.

A 27mm hose does not permit as high an air flow as the 36mm hose. I have both connected to a separator via a 50mm hose. The Fein uses a Dust Deputy, and the Festool uses a static-free Dust Commander (with a static-free 50mm hose and connector). So set up, I use it with a router. Both the machines also have variable speed. This is important when using a sander (I have a Festo ROS - pre Festool! - which rarely gets used). Too much suction will create stiction. It is this feature that I no longer can use on the Fein. Generally, the Festool needs to be at half suction to use the Dust Commander, otherwise it will collapse its bin.

Both have 0.3 micron HEPA filters. Nevertheless, I would not consider either to be cleaning the air - it is the dust below 0.3 micron that does the damage. I wear a mask when I use either, and then clear the shop by opening front and rear doors to create a through draft.

George, sorry to hear about your wife. I hope she is OK now.

Edit: Oh, the other feature that both these vacs have is the ability to power another machine - say, a router or sander - which will automatically switch on the vac when the machine is on, then power off when the machine is switched off. George, does yours do that?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Matt Lau]

John, I used to do the same thing as you (except that I used a secondhand HEPA canister vac.)
Worked well, but noisy. Now I use a second hand HEPA nilfilsk attix 8.

Derek-- I have one of the older German made Feins--a turbo 1 with autostart that I bought secondhand.
It easily collapsed my dust deputy extra-thick bockets before I put a mdf stiffener inside.
In the old Japan Woodworker store, I found it to be at least as powerful as the CT22 and significantly quieter.

Downside-- the handle sucks (no pun intended. hurts the hand), systainers don't stack on it, not a festool. form factor and hose storage not as convenient.

Powerwise, I'd rate Nilfisk > Fein = Festool
Sound (quietness)= Nilfisk > Fein (round tool assist one) > Festool
Form factor/storage/convenience= Festool > nilfisk >>>Fein --I seriously have been thinking of getting a ct26 just because of how terrible hose storage is for the Fein.
My Fein hose gets clogged pretty easy (I have the small one).

-edit-
I just realized that I didn't answer your question.
I'd recommend attaching a big 2.5" shopvac hose to suck up the shavings. Furthermore, the attachments are much cheaper than festool, fein, bosch.
Both Fein and Nilfisk will readily take the big hose. I highly recommend a pre-stage separator of some sort. I use a dust deputy, but a homemade thein baffle would work well too.

Lastly (since this is the neanderthal forum and you're all a bunch of rugged, self-sufficient individualists), Matthias Wendel has some great ideas to copy.
Meanwhile, I'll get back to working on the hammer handle that I've been working on for the last few weeks.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matt

My Fein also collapsed a standard DD. I added a plywood stiffener, which did the trick. In a thick plastic 25 lt screw-top bin, the C26 collapsed the sidewalls when on full suction. The Fein could not do the same.

I would not purchase the C26 for its ability to store a hose! I do not bother to try and wrap mine up and store it in the Festool since it is such hard work to put it there. Get the Festool because it is a better machine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mel Fulks]

But if I got a Festool,I'd be missing out on that GREAT orange color that Feins have!!:) I can use the Fein to frighten small children at Halloween!!:) What is it with the Germans about COLOR!!! Remember the HOT GREEN INCANDESCENT colors you'd see on some of their cars?
George ,since you are usually kindly ANSWERING the questions, I am glad to give back..... It's because ARMIES never wear lime green or orange!

[Eric Schmid]

There are a number of very good vacuums sold now which appear to be based on the Alto Attix design. Bosch, Makita, Dewalt and Nilfisk all make a vacuum with similar features at a lower price point than the Attix. In the $200 range you can get a Nilfisk Aero with tool activated start and self cleaning filter. In the $5-600 range the other vacuums come into play.

As you are aware the new Fein Vacuums are not the old Fein vacuums that garner so much praise. They are likely still a high quality machine, but the local dealer here has dropped the line in favor of the Bosch, Makita and Nilfisk. A bit of a red flag for me.

The self cleaning filter technology found in the Attix "clones" listed above allows you to omit the bag and still maintain relatively clean filters. For general cleanup I don't know if the little Nilfisk Aero can be beat. It does not have a large container, however. We usually sweep the big stuff and vacuum the fines, so I've not found it to be an issue.

I also have the Festool vac with the tradesman cleaning set. I share your frustration with the design. Once assembled it works fairly well, but I don't want to spend 10 minutes assembling and breaking down poles to sweep for 10 minutes. First time I installed the floor sweep the plastic receiver cracked. Okay for site work, but a bit awkward for dedicated shop use.

I believe most of the hose ends are close enough to the same size to be interchangeable. An adapter for some, a little tape for others seems to get the job done. I even have a hose set up using 2.5" hose directly connected to the CT. I would find a cleanup hose and floor sweep that you like and adapt it, if necessary, to the vacuum you prefer. Any HEPA rated vacuum (not just the filter) is going to do what you want; keep the fine dust from escaping the vacuum container.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All that "Peak horsepower " is a lot of bunk. It is impossible to run 6 HP on 15 amps@110 volts,period!! There just isn't enough amperage. Ever take an old vac apart and look at the armature of the motor? It will have a shaft of 1/4" to maybe 3/8"(and,that's hoping for too much!:)

If you want a DECENT vac that will be just as powerful as the biggest Sears vac,but not noisy at all,bite the bullet,save up your pennies,and get a FEIN vac. Not the smallest one,the mid size one. It comes with about a 1 1/2" LOOONG hose. But,what I like is that you can jam a plastic Sears 2 1/2" hose into the hole left when you take the original hose off( WHAT? Do they make SMALLER shavings in Europe?). I REALLY like that you can connect a sander to the plug in in the vac,hook up the sander's hose to the vac,and when you turn the sander on,the vac comes on. And it goes off a few seconds after you turn the sander off! I have used it with my Bosch electric planer(with the help of a few coils of sand paper). It effectively gets all the planer's chips!

hence my comment about 350 hp. I know the peak hp is bunk. :-)

[Mike Holbrook]

Derek I believe your Fein and the Festool vacs can use the same hose. I am wondering about the new versions of the Fein which is what I would have to buy. I am wondering if the new models use a different hose size? It would make some sense since the original Feins and Festools were made in Germany, but the Feins are now made at some larger manufacturer who may be using slightly different hoses. I have seen a number of different post about the newer machines. Eric mentions some issues above. Maybe I am being a little over cautious but after buying an expensive set of Festool attachments that do not work very well with either of the hoses I have...

I understand that Festool vacs work better with Festool tools and containers, which is why I have the CT22. Now, however, I am looking for a more mobile vac for general shop clean up so I can dedicate the CT22 to Festool tools and containers. I am more concerned about a good versatile/compatible hose, good attachments, mobility...than how the vac works with Festool gear.

I am interested in a couple of pieces of information I found above.
Great to know about the Nilfisk Matt/Eric.
Eric, thanks for the explanation of the Attix design and the Nilfisk Aero. I did some looking around on Amazon for Nilfisk. There are quite a few versions: Attix 30-maybe it works without a bag?, Aero 31 which has a stainless steel canister/8 gal for $329.45.... I am not sure what some of these features may be. We all have to figure out which set of features may or may not benefit the work we have planned for the tool, as always.

For instance I do not typically use electric sanders, ok I have a Fein Multi tool but IMHO it sucks as a sander, the pads come off. I use it mostly for cutting where no other tool will fit. So I am not sure variable speed will actually benefit me.

I am interested in the no bag idea, if there is a way to do it without putting extra dust in the air?

I usually pick up or sweep larger refuse too. I'm not even sure how much suction I actually want. At some point all that suction just starts pulling all the wrong things into the vacuum and maybe through the bag. I am also sensitive to the noise/db, which may increase as the power/suction of the vacuum increases? This may be a unique issue for me, but I would like to be able to sucks sawdust and small shavings off surfaces and around tools/tool wells without sucking up the smaller tools/drill bits/pencils/fasteners....

I am wondering about the bypass systems mentioned above. Can this kind of system work without putting extra dust in the air? I think HEPA systems target smaller dust particles which may be good for me. I wonder what the trade off is though? Apparently cost is one. I also suspect good HEPA systems might not coexist well with separators....

[Eric Brown]

First, some disclosure. The company I work for makes some of the hardware for some of the vacuums they sell. I am only informing y'all about their existence and you can judge for yourself the features they have, such as self cleaning. See here: http://www.cdclarue.com/

I do not own one, but if I used more power tools I would consider them.
Doubt if I would even be able to get a discount.

Enjoy.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

First, some disclosure. The company I work for makes some of the hardware for some of the vacuums they sell. I am only informing y'all about their existence and you can judge for yourself the features they have, such as self cleaning. See here: http://www.cdclarue.com/

I do not own one, but if I used more power tools I would consider them.
Doubt if I would even be able to get a discount.

Enjoy.

wow, those are cool, but very pricey. I like the self-cleaning filter.

[Mike Holbrook]

I found one for a little over $500, but I think the caster set has to be bought separately. Except for the base model they seem to run over $1000. I need to study on whether auto clean is worth the additional cost.

[Jim Ritter]

Here is the pic of the separator. Nothing fancy. A short extension cord was added to the hose so I always have power for the sander or whatever. The vac itself retains its bag and hepa filter, I just don't need to empty it very often (almost never).

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m628/boatman53/image_zpszss9fplf.jpeg

Jim

[Kirby Krieger]

Let me know if you want pics I'm heading to the shop soon.
Jim

Jim — thanks for the reply. I saw the pic you posted elsewhere in the thread. Appreciate both.

Cheers,

—Kirby.

[Mike Holbrook]

So a separator's function is to separate the larger particles into a separate container where they may be emptied out easily, leaving only fine dust continuing on to the actual vac system?

[Jim Ritter]

You got it Mike, if if your separator is a good one very little fine dust gets to the vac. As I've said I haven't changed the bag in the vac in a couple of years, but I empty the separator often.
Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

I pulled the trigger on a Nilfisk Aero 31-21 INOX for $312 (with a sign up discount from Sylvane, free shipping. It was available through Amazon at a little higher price. Sylvane is a "clean air company" which offered much more info on the machines, ways to compare various machines, videos....One of my issues with Amazon is the information they have on products is often inadequate or wrong.

This is the machine Eric mentions above, but with a few additional features and the next larger size. The machine I bought has 8 vs 5 gal capacity at the same 64db. The machine can be used bagless. The body is stainless steel and has a removable SS 8 gal bucket for removing and dumping debris. It has the "Push and Clean" filter cleaning, via reversing air flow, function. It offers: a little tool storage on top, a cable rap type hose holder and tool activated start/stop. The machine in SS only weighs 23 lbs. and appears to move around very easily.

It comes with 10 different attachments, including: an aluminum extension tube, 11.5' hose, stainless steel emptying bucket, floor nozzle for wet & dry, suction brush, tool adapter with regulator, crevice tool, universal nozzle, tool holder kit, dust bag, washable PET filter.

Although I bought the machine that does not have a HEPA filter, simply replacing the filter on the machine with a HEPA filter makes it a HEPA.I can try bagless, add a bag or switch to the HEPA filter all with the same machine. This gives me a way to test whether or not I need/want a HEPA filter or a bag. This machine uses a closed/sealed system that is not suppose to let dust out. If my sneezing is due to pollen in the spring air I am guessing the HEPA filter want help and may just clog the machine faster.

I am still thinking about a separator. I think the push button cleaning, removable 8 gal SS emptying bucket, and the washable PET filter may work similarly for me without requiring the extra container or hoses. My new shop will likely be much smaller.

[lowell holmes]

If you had told me that shop vacuums would be the subject for 29 posts, I would not have believed it.:)

[Mike Holbrook]

Yes, but, isn't the clean air we breath while we are working with hand tools one of the major benefits? If ones shop has lots of concrete floor space and there are half a dozen or so canines running around looking for wood refuse to chew on, even hand tool shavings get converted to dust rapidly if not removed from the floor. One of the reasons I like hand tools is I can deal with the dust and shavings with a shop vac vs a complex high volume air filtration system. Read some of the recent posts on the general forum and workshop design forum. They have complex large duct work and Onedia...air filtration systems with hook ups at each power tool...apparently entire workshops are built around vacuum systems.

[lowell holmes]

For the record, I have two shop vacs. I just don't consider them to be a prime tool in the shop. The filters I put in them keeps the air clean.

I guess I'm out of touch, but I probably will stay that way.

[Bob Glenn]

Wow, can't believe the responses. I just use a broom at the end of the day. Don't even need a dust pan as I installed a waste basket next to the the stairway so I can just sweep the shavings and dust off into the basket.

[Mike Holbrook]

Lowell and Bob bring up a question here that I wonder about which may be a little off topic.

Certainly we all have our own specific reasons for the tools we are interested in at any particular time. I am getting a house ready to sell, doing projects like rebuilding porch railings & steps, replacing/repairing wood damage. There will be remodeling at the new house & the shop space and building furniture. I do a fair amount of my own construction, electrical and plumbing work. I have Six German Shepherds and three Lancashire Heelers and there are frequently six or more in & out of the house. Cleaning up dog hair is a constant battle. My interest in shop vacuums runs a little deeper than just cleaning up hand plane shavings as I thought it might for others.

Many of the tools I use for woodworking are used for other duties as well: sharpening, screw drivers, drills, hatchets, axes, adzes, knives, some chisels... brooms, dust pans, paint brushes, pencils, rulers, squares, nail sets...glues, paint, finishes, oils...still I try to buy tools that work well for woodworking. I thought other posters would be similar in their use of their tools? Is it inappropriate to discuss screw drivers (manual vs electric), sharpening devices (manual & electric), or work benches because they may be used for something other than hand tool woodworking?

I get the idea that this is a "hand tool" forum. Still do we not discuss: lighting, electrical, water access (plumbing), any electric tool. How about shop design, project lay out, furniture design. Sure there may be forums for some of these topics but is it irrelevant to discuss hand tools in reference to these topics? Do we want to limit our scope or broaden it?

[Mike Holbrook]

I got the Nilfisk vacuum today. Turns out the stainless steel bottom section is the emptying bucket. I was very happy to find out that all my Festool attachments fit on the Nilfisk. The extension tubes for the Festool kit I bought actually fit better/tighter on the Nilfisk, so I can use the Festool floor sweeper on the Nilfisk. The 27 and 36mm Festool hoses both fit on the Nilfisk, as does the large hose from my old 18 gal machine. Everything I have in attachments and suction tubes work with the Nilfisk, a major bonus. I used it today without a bag and did not seem to have a problem with the air quality or odor. I think all the bags I have for my old machines will fit on the Nilfisk too.

I am happy to have found a great vac for general clean up that will work with the large ducts on my bandsaw and lunchbox planer and turn on & off with my smaller electric tools too. I can use it: as a bagless vac, with a bag, with a HEPA filter... depending on the job.

Many thanks to Matt and Eric for pointing me in the direction of Nilfisk. I agree with Eric I don't think you can beat these machines for" compatibility, design, features.....I am a happy camper.