Bowls from KD stock

[brian zawatsky]

I'm pretty new to SMC, and relatively new to turning. Started turning last November and I've done a couple dozen bowls, learning a little more about sharpening and technique with each one.

I'm a "learn the hard way" kinda guy. It can't be helped.

Anyway I have 4 huge pieces of KD 16/4 hard maple that were cut-offs from a project at work. They are each about 14 x 14 or so. I'm sure they would make great salad bowls but I'm wondering if it will be next to impossible to turn, since it's hard as a rock and bone dry to boot.

Anyone have any success with such stuff?

[Steve Schlumpf]

Brian, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to turn them. You will have to take your time and keep your gouge sharp but turning KD wood allows you to turn to final thickness! Have fun! Looking forward to seeing the photos!

[Barry McFadden]

Like Steve says....shouldn't be any problem at all. I turn kiln dried bowl blanks all the time with good results..

[Reed Gray]

With KD wood, you just can't turn it as fast as you can green wood. Keep the tools sharp. That size blank is a bit short for rolling pins, but you can make carving mallets or small sour kraut pounders too.

robo hippy

[David C. Roseman]

Brian, a few weeks ago Tom Wirsing, an internationally-known turner, was a guest demonstrator at our local club. He turns a lot of kiln-dried wood that he mail-orders because he does not have access to green hardwoods where he lives in Colorado. He produces spectacular bowls and platters with it. http://www.thomaswirsing.com/our-story.html Tom is a big fan of carefully-sharpened negative-rake scrapers to make final cuts for the best finish. Especially to remove any pesky tear out. The bulk of his wood removal up to that point is with a couple of very sharp bowl gouges.

[Brian Kent]

All of these people are wrong. It is impossible to turn but easy to ship. Please ship all of the pieces to Brian Kent, …

And just to compare, everyone else can send green maple of the same size to Brian Kent, …

(happy to be of service)

[John K Jordan]

Brian,

There are thousands of turners all over the world who turn bowls from nothing but green wood. I've had some tell me how much trouble they had when trying hard, dry wood like Hickory, Oak, Maple, Sepele, Lyptus, etc., cursing and hacking and fighting it the whole time. I watched a demonstrator turn a plate from dry purpleheart and I was horrified by his technique - his arms were locked, his body was tense, and he hollered out "I'm pushing as hard as I can!!" Yikes.

It doesn't have to be that way. Almost everything I turn is from dry wood. I'm thankful for the variety in the world but I personally don't care for warped bowls, plates, and platters. My wood is mostly air dried, some for over 10 years now, but I have had some KD. In many cases the harder the wood, the better the final surface.

Since very thick dry wood is hard to come by, I sometimes make larger bowls from glue-ups of 2-3" dry slabs.

Two things you need: the first is sharp tools. Very sharp tools. With wet, green wood you can get by with less but with hard dry wood sharp sharp sharp is a big help. I often hone and polish the edge after grinding. The second is good technique. If new to turning dry I recommend taking it very slow. Don't get in a big hurry to hollow out the bowl but make every cut a practice cut. Try to make long, continuous cuts with very little removed on each pass. Move the gouges as slowly as you can. Try different things, different tools, and different grinds as you go and see what works best. Stay relaxed, the key is fine control, not force.

With dry wood you will NOT get big long, satisfying curls of shavings thrown over your shoulder but you should be able to get smaller, clean, respectable shavings. If you just see dust your tools or presentation is not quite optimum.

I'll tell you one little story. At a turning event one guy (a turning instructor) was turning a bowl from Lyptus, a plantation-grown eucalyptus hybrid. He was making mostly dust, chunks flying, speaking in tongues, describing it as like turning concrete, swore he saw sparks! When I told him I wanted to try it he gave me his second blank along with a bit of a smirk. You should have seen his face when I came back with a bowl - I could help myself, I said "Bob, you just need to learn how to sharpen a gouge." Ouch!

337813

If you are fairly new to turning and find this too much of a challenge right now, put the wood up for a few years! If you have mostly turned bowls, one recommendation from the experts is to take up spindle turning which will teach fine tool control quicker. (I start beginning students with the skew chisel.) Then start with making a bowl from a smaller dry blank or two before starting on the big stuff.

It would be a shame since dry wood this size is relatively hard to come by, but another option is to cut up the pieces and make smaller things. 4" is perfect for things like lidded boxes which need dry wood.

And if all else fails, as someone else implied you should have no trouble giving it away, trading, or selling this wood!

JKJ

[brian zawatsky]

All of these people are wrong. It is impossible to turn but easy to ship. Please ship all of the pieces to Brian Kent, ... And just to compare, everyone else can send green maple of the same size to Brian Kent, ... (happy to be of service)

That's very selfless of you, Brian. Truly a gentleman and scholar, indeed.

Thanks for the replies guys. I've never used a negative rake scraper, perhaps I'll look into picking one up.

I'll post pics when I get into turning it. Maybe tomorrow, if my wife lets me have some shop time lol. The "honey-do" list is long...

[Brian Kent]

That's very selfless of you, Brian. Truly a gentleman and scholar, indeed.

Thanks for the replies guys. I've never used a negative rake scraper, perhaps I'll look into picking one up.

I'll post pics when I get into turning it. Maybe tomorrow, if my wife lets me have some shop time lol. The "honey-do" list is long...

I have just started exploring negative rake scraper-ing. I think this could be fruitful.
I am currently working on a repetitive order, which gives me opportunity to try small variations. I have gotten a lot out of doing simple things (like spindles and small, shallow dishes) over and over until the bigger dish or bowl or cup makes sense to my hands and mind.
The first half of my pieces on this project were from green wood. Much faster at first but then a lot of touch-up work later when I return to re-turn. The second half has been with kiln dried wood. It is easier to use for details (for me) and for pieces that I will want to sand to a polish.

Enjoy the variety and the journey.

[Reed Gray]

I have been playing a lot with the NRS's (different from ROUS's for Princess Bride fans...). Conclusions thus far: easier to get a good finish on dry wood than wet wood, on wet wood need to sharpen much more often. Have only 35 degree beveled ones for bowls now, need to regrind one to 30 degrees. I am liking a 1/4 round nose on them for insides of bowls to fit into the curves better. Shear scraping still is my preference for the outsides of bowls. They are still scrapers, and the shear cuts will leave a little better finish surface, but more difficult to shear scrape on the insides of bowls. Every thing is more difficult on the insides of bowls..... The NRS does do better in harder woods, and the sugar maple would be perfect... Hmm, I have one down under the work bench some where that was a gift years ago....

robo hippy

[Bob Bergstrom]

Just make sure to take your dentures out before turning it. It can be jaw jarring!:eek::eek:

[Brian Kent]

Reed, have you ever made NRS's using the teeth of ROUS's? I hear they are self-sharpening.

[Reed Gray]

Well, since they are rodents, and beaver teeth are at about 40 degree bevels, I don't think that is acute enough for NRS's.... Besides, 'I don't think they exist'

robo hippy

[brian zawatsky]

I finally got a few hours of shop time in, and started turning a bowl that will be a wedding gift for a friend. I've just done the outside so far, and started hollowing it out this afternoon. That maple is hard and it's gonna take a while to hollow for sure.
Made a NRS out of a cheap HSS round nose scraper that I had laying around, and man does that thing cut sweet! I ground both sides to around 30 degrees, and the whispy little shavings that flew off were so light they seemed like they oughta be able to float. Thanks for the recommendation, guys.
I'm still having a tough time getting rid of all the tool marks though, I've posted a few pics for clarification. They should sand out, but I hate sanding and would like to do as little of it as possible. Maybe a little more work with the NRS?

[David Delo]

Someone is going to be very happy to receive this piece. Nice job so far Brian.

[Brice Rogers]

Interesting discussion regarding NRS. Question on sharpening them - - what is the desired angle on the face (measured from, say, the bottom) and what is the desired angle on the top ?

[Jamie Straw]

The general rule of thumb, from what I've heard and read, is that the "included angle" be less than 90. The two that I recently had made by a club member who uses them daily are 75 on the main/bottom bevel and ~14 on the top. Since he uses his on the insides of often very small boxes, he grinds in some extra clearance also.

[Reed Gray]

Brian, you should be able to get just about every thing out with the NRS. For going down the outside of that bowl, you would need to sharpen once or thrice, and that is if you start with one part and as you sweep down the side, you move the cutting part for a fresh edge all the way down, if that makes any sense. It takes a couple of passes to remove most marks.

Now, off to Atlanta at zero dark thirty in the morning... 3 time zone changes.....

robo hippy

[Al Wasser]

Once you start inside the bowl (dry or green) do not stop until it is finished. Too often I have seen internal stresses reshape a piece when it sits for a period of time

[brian zawatsky]

Yesterday I hollowed out the bowl, and cut some grooves for a turquoise inlay. Let me preface this disaster by saying this is my first attempt lol

I cut the grooves and filled them early yesterday afternoon, and this morning returned to the lathe the turn off the inlace and (I thought) do the final sanding.

Turns out the bowl moved slightly overnight (MC is 8%) so when I turned off the excess inlace I cut right through it in 2 spots. I guess I'll have to re-cut the grooves and do the inlay again? Any suggestions?