Gouge cuts on wooden planes

[Steve Voigt]

This thread is in response to a brief discussion I had with Oskar Sedell in another thread. This is very inside baseball, but it may be interesting to the few people who enjoy traditional woodie minutiae.

The gouge cuts I'm referring to are at the front and back of the plane, and their purpose is to terminate the stopped chamfers that run vertically along the edges, normally about half way down.

Due to the influence of Larry Williams, the style one sees most often on contemporary planes is a gouge cut that leaves a small step at the bottom of the chamfer. This is from one of my planes:

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However, there are many other possibilities. A lot of 19th C. planes omitted the step in favor of a smooth transition (image courtesy of Oliver Sparks):

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Here's an example from the Canadian planemaker Daryl Gent. It's similar to mine, but slightly more stylized, with a tiny bit of undercut.

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One can take the undercut idea farther, so the gouge cuts are actually deeper than the stopped chamfers. Her'es an example from Oliver Sparks:

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Some 18th C. molding planes have double gouge cuts. Here's an example, courtesy of Richard Arnold:

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And finally, here's the most extreme example I've seen. I'm in total awe of this 18th C. maker's skill. You need sharp tools for this one! (this image also from Richard Arnold).

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[ken hatch]

Beautiful,

Steve, thanks for posting I would have missed 'em if you hadn't.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Steve, thanks for posting this. I have been wondering how this is all done. As usual it is the craftsman's skill with their tools.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

And how about some Dutch flair? I copied this detail from the rear of a large Dutch moulding plane, and used it on all my bench planes. The Dutch benchplanes from the guild period didn't have these chamfers and gouge cuts at all.

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[John Vernier]

This reminds me that I want to thank you Steve for calling out Richard Arnold's Instagram feed in the skew iron thread. I've been riveted to it ever since, all his excellent photos of the details of 18th century tools. I haven't made a plane yet (beech billets seem to be seasoning well, though), but Richard's pics, and yours too, are an education as well as inspiration.

[Bob Glenn]

Around here, the chamfer pictured in the first picture is called a lambs tongue.

[george wilson]

I like yours best,Steve. We copied that same style from the 18th. c. originals we were supplied with. Picture #2 has nearly no style. The Canadian plane by Gent has nice undercuts. I don't care for the double undercuts.

[Gene Davis]

Isn't such a detail called a lamb's tongue?

[ken hatch]

A photo to add to the mix, a modern Jack made by Philip Edwards.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/phillyJack160518_zpsdwonq3vo.jpg

[Steve Voigt]

Isn't such a detail called a lamb's tongue?


Gene (and Bob),

It's similar, but a lamb's tongue is a double curve…it's basically an ogee applied to a corner. I've never seen a lamb's tongue on a plane, but someone must've done it.

[Mark Maleski]

Around here, the chamfer pictured in the first picture is called a lambs tongue.

Lamb's tongue has a full cyma curve and no fillet at the end. The gouge cuts that Steve shows (some of them, anyway, such as his first picture) have a gouge cut which creates a cove, that then ends in a step leading to the chamfer.

[Steve Voigt]

Steve, thanks for posting this. I have been wondering how this is all done. As usual it is the craftsman's skill with their tools.

jtk


Jim, you're welcome. Yup, if it's 18th C, the answer is usually simple tools and lots of skill.

[Steve Voigt]

And how about some Dutch flair? I copied this detail from the rear of a large Dutch moulding plane, and used it on all my bench planes. The Dutch benchplanes from the guild period didn't have these chamfers and gouge cuts at all.

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Kees, nice! Looks a lot like Daryl's with the moderate undercut. I did something similar on a strike block plane today, and realized I need to get a gouge with a tighter sweep to do it properly.

[Steve Voigt]

This reminds me that I want to thank you Steve for calling out Richard Arnold's Instagram feed in the skew iron thread. I've been riveted to it ever since, all his excellent photos of the details of 18th century tools. I haven't made a plane yet (beech billets seem to be seasoning well, though), but Richard's pics, and yours too, are an education as well as inspiration.

John, you're welcome. If you like Richard's feed, I hope you've checked out those of Oliver Sparks, Bespokeshave, jim.n.alfie, and…there are lots more, it's definitely a rabbit hole.

[Steve Voigt]

I like yours best,Steve. We copied that same style from the 18th. c. originals we were supplied with. Picture #2 has nearly no style. The Canadian plane has nice undercuts. I don't care for the double undercuts.

George, thank you, and I pretty much agree with the rest of your assessment. #2 doesn't look great, though it would look better if the long chamfers weren't so ugly! I'm not crazy about the double undercuts, but I like that they are extravagant and quirky. I guess what is fascinating to me is how the gouge cuts become this tiny little area for planemakers to express themselves, in a very individual way, in what is otherwise a very standardized form.

[Steve Voigt]

A photo to add to the mix, a modern Jack made by Philip Edwards.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/phillyJack160518_zpsdwonq3vo.jpg

Ken, thanks for posting. Those are a lot like the ones in my second photo, but Phil's are much nicer. :)

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks for the follow-up post Steve. I'd seen your comment on the other thread and was curious. This post scratched my itch!

[Pat Barry]

Details are everything of course. The fillets and gouge cuts must be a signature of sorts yet very stressful to the maker. I mean, you've done all that work to get the plane cut and fitted and finished just right, and working to make the kind of shavings you aspire to, and then you have to cut that final little detail to get it just right. Yikes, there must be a lot of stress involved in these final little details. For the particular detail being illustrated her, what is the backup plan?

[Chuck Hart]

Steve I like yours the best. Do you have a layaway plan or factory seconds. I would really like one of your planes but they are out of my budget. I would really like to experience the beauty of the burnish a woody does to wood. I will have to wait until I have the skills to try and make on myself

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Steve

I also prefer the style you are doing. I've tended to do a smooth transition mostly, which are the least interesting now I compare them all, and ironically they are the more difficult to do. Rather than gouges, I've used round files to shape the hollow.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

Derek,using a file would be the safest approach. But,there is a nice little moment of satisfaction when you take a gouge and cut that detail with a single snick! And do it consistently. When you make a lot of planes,you get to that point. And,a very sharp,polished edged gouge leaves a polish on the wood. Especially nice when looking at the large ones seen on the ends of molding planes such as Steve illustrated.

[Steve Voigt]

Steve I like yours the best. Do you have a layaway plan or factory seconds. I would really like one of your planes but they are out of my budget. I would really like to experience the beauty of the burnish a woody does to wood. I will have to wait until I have the skills to try and make on myself

Chuck, my "factory" is smaller than my bedroom, so no factory seconds! I assure you I am not getting rich off these, but I can totally understand the sticker shock…I recommend trying to acquire a vintage woodie in decent shape. You might want to keep an eye on Josh clark's site, hyperkitten. He often sells woodies in good, usable condition for $50-$100. They tend to go fast though.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi George

No doubt they do create a sharp, polished edge. But first one has to have a gouge. I had to find an alternative method. The gouges I now have are a fairly recent acquisition.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve Voigt]

Details are everything of course. The fillets and gouge cuts must be a signature of sorts yet very stressful to the maker. I mean, you've done all that work to get the plane cut and fitted and finished just right, and working to make the kind of shavings you aspire to, and then you have to cut that final little detail to get it just right. Yikes, there must be a lot of stress involved in these final little details. For the particular detail being illustrated her, what is the backup plan?

I imagine for someone who's done hundreds it's not stressful, but I still find it so. The backup plan is, first, don't screw up! :p But second, if you do screw up, remove material from the side and/or ends. For a very minor glitch, card scraping the side in the area of the gouge cut can buy you enough room to have another go. For a bigger screw up, you'd have to plane the side and/or end, and then recut the long and/or stopped chamfer. Best not to have that happen.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Thanks for sharing. I was actually studying this same topic. Here is a well done termination on a sliding deadman that is NOT MY WORK, or my image, but I saved it as a reference because I liked it so much. The photo really does it proper justice as well.

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[Steve Voigt]

Hi George

No doubt they do create a sharp, polished edge. But first one has to have a gouge. I had to find an alternative method. The gouges I now have are a fairly recent acquisition.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek and George, I did my first half dozen planes with a rat tail file, then acquired some gouges. The gouges are much faster, and leave a crisper, cleaner edge. I never do anything to clean up the gouge cuts; they are ready to finish, as-is. I tend to nibble away George; I have not gotten a nice finish with heavy cuts. I'll ideally take a thin full-width shaving at the end, though it doesn't always work out that way.

[Mark AJ Allen]

Thanks for the review Steve. It's very relevant to some work I'm doing: yet another iteration of my kerfing plane. Seeing the wide range of these details is inspirational; I'm especially taken by the undercut style; for some reason, the sharp edge aesthetic doesn't appeal to me. I was always wondering if these edge details have some functional value on top of making a plane look awesome.

[george wilson]

Knocking a corner off with a gouge isn't a real heavy cut. Try doing it in 2 cuts. The first to get oriented.

[Chuck Hart]

Chuck, my "factory" is smaller than my bedroom, so no factory seconds! I assure you I am not getting rich off these, but I can totally understand the sticker shock…I recommend trying to acquire a vintage woodie in decent shape. You might want to keep an eye on Josh clark's site, hyperkitten. He often sells woodies in good, usable condition for $50-$100. They tend to go fast though.

Steve thanks for the response. I was trying to be humorous with my post. You deserve every dollar you make from your work it is beautiful and well respected. I am just too cheap to spend that kind of money on myself. I know Josh but he has not had much in inventory lately. The avatar I use is a plane I bought from Josh. I wish you much luck in your endeavor.