Solutions for chatter

[Dan T Jones]

OK I'm making progress. Got the sole flat, etc on this Sears No 4. Sharpened blade and got this chatter condition.

I'm hoping some kind person will list out for me the steps to find and fix this issue.

Thank you.
Dan

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[Kees Heiden]

I don't know how the Sears #4 looks like, but if it is like the Stanley's then you can pull the frog back so the bed of the frog is in line with the rear wall of the mouth of the plane. This gives extra support to the blade, just where you need it. Also, set the capiron a lot closer to the edge. And make sure the blade is SHARP.

[Jim Koepke]

Don,

There are way too many causes of chatter to list them all. As Kees mentioned having the frog positioned properly may be of help.

For a start, the frog should be set so the back edge of the mouth and the plane of the frog's face are in the same plane. We can work on adjusting the mouth later.

The frog holding screws also need to be holding the frog securely.

How thick of a shaving are you taking when you get chatter?

One way to reduce chatter is to take a lighter shaving. How thick is the shaving you are taking when you get this chatter?

What is the angle on your blade's bevel?

25º or less is more prone to chatter on heavy cuts. More than 30º is prone to skipping. Sort of like chatter but different.

When you hold your plane up and look at the side, can you see a space between the blade and the frog?

Having the blade in full contact with the frog will help reduce chatter. This brings up the lever cap screw. If it is too loose it can result in chatter. It should be tight enough to secure everything, but not so tight as to make the plane difficult to adjust. My preference is to have it tight enough so when the depth adjuster is backed off in to its backlash zone a few shavings can be taken before the blade moves back. Some will like it tighter than this. It should also be tight enough to prevent the lateral adjustment from changing.

If the chip breaker is not seating on the blade properly it can be a source of chatter.

There are likely many that didn't come to mind while typing this.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

Don,

There are way too many causes of chatter to list them all. As Kees mentioned having the frog positioned properly may be of help.

For a start, the frog should be set so the back edge of the mouth and the plane of the frog's face are in the same plane. We can work on adjusting the mouth later.

The frog holding screws also need to be holding the frog securely.

How thick of a shaving are you taking when you get chatter?

One way to reduce chatter is to take a lighter shaving. How thick is the shaving you are taking when you get this chatter?

What is the angle on your blade's bevel?

25º or less is more prone to chatter on heavy cuts. More than 30º is prone to skipping. Sort of like chatter but different.

When you hold your plane up and look at the side, can you see a space between the blade and the frog?

Having the blade in full contact with the frog will help reduce chatter. This brings up the lever cap screw. If it is too loose it can result in chatter. It should be tight enough to secure everything, but not so tight as to make the plane difficult to adjust. My preference is to have it tight enough so when the depth adjuster is backed off in to its backlash zone a few shavings can be taken before the blade moves back. Some will like it tighter than this. It should also be tight enough to prevent the lateral adjustment from changing.

If the chip breaker is not seating on the blade properly it can be a source of chatter.

There are likely many that didn't come to mind while typing this.

jtk
Lots of great advice here. Thanks Jim

[Dan T Jones]

I'll say. I'll take these one at a time. I know I'm not exactly working with a fine plane but I would like to get it going. Even at a thin shaving I still get some chatter but it is reduced. I know that a high dollar iron and chip breaker may solve this but I would like to see if I can make the stock plane work.

Thanks for all the help.

Dan

[bridger berdel]

check that you are planing with the grain. does it chatter no matter which end of the board you start at? also, try a different board.

also, start with the plane set for no cut, and gradually advance the blade until it just starts to cut. if it cuts smoothly at an absurdly thin shaving, continue to advance the blade bit by bit until you get chatter. this should be helpful information for troubleshooting.



I'll say. I'll take these one at a time. I know I'm not exactly working with a fine plane but I would like to get it going. Even at a thin shaving I still get some chatter but it is reduced. I know that a high dollar iron and chip breaker may solve this but I would like to see if I can make the stock plane work.

Thanks for all the help.

Dan

[Derek Cohen]

Chatter occurs when something is loose, that is, is able to vibrate or flex. This may be a lever cap that is not tensioned enough, a frog screw that has not been done up enough after the frog was adjusted, and where the blade projects too far over the edge of the mouth and is then unsupported. These are exaccerbated when the blade meets resistance, such as when it us not sharp enough or the wood is harder than usual.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

To add a bit to what Derek posted, I can cause my planes to create a type of chatter on a heavy cut. I sometimes call it a 'zipper cut' because it sounds like a zipper being opened or closed. My guess at what is actually occurring is the blade cuts until some of the wood splits free (tears out) and then the blade is stopped by the next area of wood that is solid and the whole sequence repeats again. The shaving and the surface left behind have lines perpendicular to the direction of the plane's motion spaced very close together.


I know that a high dollar iron and chip breaker may solve this but I would like to see if I can make the stock plane work.

It shouldn't require investment in a high dollar blade or chip breaker. It is true that a thicker blade will be less likely to chatter. The cause is usually not caused by the lighter blades used by Stanley or the thinner replacements made by others. Chatter is a type of resonance. All the components of a plane need to work together to cancel out the resonance thus eliminating the chatter.

jtk

[george wilson]

The best solution to eliminate CHATTER<would be to close these forums!!:) Oh,wait,THAT kind of chatter. Your blade or frog is not fitting somewhere. Start with making sure the frog is screwed down tight. And,even though the SCREWS may be tight,they could be bottoming out,leaving the frog a bit loose. I'm NOT a Stanley expert. But,I'd start there. Next,see how your blade is fitting.

[Dan T Jones]

Thanks to all. This simple question brought a lot of great knowledge forward. This is such a great resource for us beginners.

In my case it was indeed the frog. I had eyeballed the frogs position. When I went back with these great suggestions I put a straight edge on the frog. I saw easily that
The frog was well back from the mouth - not even close. When I fixed that I got a beautiful transparent shaving.

Thank you.
Dan

[Mike Cherry]

Yay! Enjoy that plane Dan.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks to all. This simple question brought a lot of great knowledge forward. This is such a great resource for us beginners.

In my case it was indeed the frog. I had eyeballed the frogs position. When I went back with these great suggestions I put a straight edge on the frog. I saw easily that
The frog was well back from the mouth - not even close. When I fixed that I got a beautiful transparent shaving.

Thank you.
Dan

Thanks for posting your results. Glad to hear you have it sorted.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Great, and indeed thanks for reporting back.

[Gary Muto]

The best solution to eliminate CHATTER<would be to close these forums!!:) .........

Truer words were never spoken, or typed.

[bridger berdel]

Just for fun, can you post pics of the wood surfaces it produces now? Also, pics of the plane itself. It is interesting to me to see what planes are available at all points in the market.

[Dan T Jones]

Bridger,
Here are some pictures. This is old growth QS southern pine.
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[bridger berdel]

I think that that plane is made by sargent. I have one a lot like it that took a lot of fettling to run, but it is now a decent user.



Bridger,
Here are some pictures. This is old growth QS southern pine.
337394337395337396

[Dan T Jones]

I worked a good bit on it also. It is the first one since I didn't want to mess up a good one

[steven c newman]

That be a Stanley made one. They were also made in England. That be the Stanel "Crimped Whale Tail" lateral that Stanley went to about 1962. Rounded corners on the iron, again, Stanley made. Colour is the one that Sears requested on their planes at the time. Stanley ones were Blue in colour.

[Jerry Olexa]

Another interesting topic..thanks