Breadboard Ends

[Ryan Tea]

Hello all,

I am making a 48"W x 96"L (7/4) farmhouse table out of wormy chestnut. I am concerned with attempting these breadboard ends.

I planned on routing a groove (or dado on tablesaw) in the breadboards straight across, and then lining up/clamping the breadboards to the table and mark how far down I will need to cut the tenon (from the groove cut). I was going to lay a straight edge on the table and creep up from both sides until I hit my pencil marks to fit the breadboard. From there I planned to cut the table tenon back 1/2" from each side and also cut back the table so I was left with three tenons (only gluing middle) that will all get pinned.

- Is there a general rule for the overall tenon size to fit inside the 2x4 breadboard?
- Do I have to cut individual mortises for each tenon inside the breadboard or can I leave one long groove from side to side?
- Does my "plan" sound feasible the way I am doing it?

I hope this makes sense. Thanks!

[Robert Engel]

You can do it the way you describe. My advice is don't go for a perfect fit right off the saw. Make the initial tenon cuts fat and tune them to fit. Remember you are taking equal amounts off each side so any adjustment doubles itself and you can have a skinny tenon quite easily.

There are no hardfast rules that I know of. Generally, I would say make longer tenon depth about 2/3 the width of the breadboard (in your example 2 1/2 to 3" deep) and the shoulders between about 3/4". For a 2" thick bb, I would make the tenon 5/8 - 3/4" thick. Yes, I would cut the deeper tenons individually.

An alternative method is to plow a groove in both the table and the breadboard and use splines for the tenons. I think this is an easier, quicker way with less error and will be just as strong. You just have to remember to orient the spline grain parallel to the table, not the breadboard part to account for wood movement.

[Matt Day]

When I make mine, I use a hand held router and a jig to cut the tenon. The jig slips over the table as a guide and makes sure the cut is even on both sides. I use a router table to cut the mortise, because I don't like the tenon showing at the side (now that I think about it, I don't really care one way or the other). I use dowel pins to secure it, only the center one is glued and the others are slotted to allow movement.

Make the breadboard end slightly thicker than the table to allow for error. Sand/plane when the joint is done.

[Rod Sheridan]

Ryan, I normally avoid breadboard ends on tables, as the top changes width while the ends do not.

Unless you're really attached to the idea of them, just leave the plain end............Regards, rod.

[Pat Barry]

Ryan, I normally avoid breadboard ends on tables, as the top changes width while the ends do not.

Unless you're really attached to the idea of them, just leave the plain end............Regards, rod.
The breadboards should help keep the table ends straight due to seasonal and moisture content changes so they are a good thing. If there is significant overhang on the table ends I personally feel like breadboards are the way to go. If the overhang form the end aprons isn't all that much you can get by without them but lots of people don't like all the end grain on the table tops so breadboards give a much more refined look

[Ryan Tea]

Thank you all very much for the replies. I never thought of the spline approach, but I did see the Wood Whisperer do the floating tenons. However, the domino joiner is a little out of a budget right now.

I am dead set on the breadboards for movement, but also even more so for the appearance. I would just hate to mess up a beautiful wormy chestnut top doing something incorrectly.

And I had a slight typo, the breadboards are 7/4, just slightly thicker than the table, not 2".

Thanks again and fingers crossed!!

[Bill McNiel]

Ryan,
I always make my breadboard ends by cutting out the tongue to create what amounts to a series of tenons. The concept some real meat between them as opposed to having maybe a half inch top and bottom all the way across. It is a little more work but is significantly stronger and more effective than a continuous tongue.

[glenn bradley]

There are different approaches and these are only two. They happen to be on the same piece. The "show" breadboards use an open-ended groove as opposed to a mortise (closed at the front for appearances but, open at the rear to allow the top to expand toward the back only). The front is glued and pegged (from below) so the show face is always aligned. The middle peg is slotted and the rear peg is slotted more-so.

337362 . 337365 . 337366

The pullout will have metal full extension glides on the sides and will be hidden when not in use so I use the "fanned" holes and screws here.

337363 . 337359 . 337360

You can sort of see them both here; the pullout with the hidden outer edges and the top of the lower carcass with the show ends.

337364 . 337367

[Ryan Tea]

Great suggestions. I really appreciate the responses and like going through the different ways of doing it. Glenn, great illustrations for a visual of different approaches.

Since I am on here, let me run another question through everyone.

My reclaimed wormy chestnut came from old barn trusses. Once they were all milled down they have old nail holes in some (some plentiful) of the sides. You can see a sample in the photo below. Will the effect my glue-up in any way or will enough of the material be covered that it should be no issue? I have no plans on tap dancing on the table...haha


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[glenn bradley]

I would not worry over the holes with material that thick. BTW, nice table saw. I used to have that one. Dad is enjoying it now.

[Matt Day]

If wormy chestnut is anything like wormy maple I've used before, those holes are worm holes and not nail holes. I didn't fill them and haven't had any issues.

[Ryan Tea]

They are definitely worm holes on the faces, but looked more to me like nail holes on the sides. I may be incorrect.

[Ryan Tea]

I had a couple more questions about these breadboards if someone didn't mind answering.....

- Is there a significant difference in doing three tenons as opposed to one long tenon? My problem is, I do not have a mortiser and I think I am going to have difficulty cutting three mortises in the breadboards effectively. One long tenon would be much easier for me.

- If I have slight cupping after the glue up, should I sand the table flat before cutting the breadboards? I have a locking straight edge with router attachment that I am going to slide right down the straight edge taking off little by little top and bottom of the tenon.

- If one long tenon suffices, I ended up planning on 2 1/2" deep on table, 3/4" thick, and one continuous mortise in the breadboard stopping short of the ends, but still allowing for movement. And still pinning across the long breadboard in several places.

I am concerned with the elbow leaners.....Thanks again!

[David Eisenhauer]

I built a coffee table and some matching end tables out of old joist/rafter reclaimed chestnut (complete with square nails and multiple blackened nail holes) back in the 1980's and used full-length tenons and full-length grooves (showing on the outer ends) for all breadboard ends. My tops were around the same thickness as you are planning on and I have had zero issues with the furniture since building the pieces. As I recall, I used the 2/3 length rule for the tenon lengths and really show virtually no movement on the exposed breadboard ends (due to seasonal expansion-contraction) probably due to a combination of a poly finish and year around climate controlled AC atmosphere. I fixed the centers of the breadboard ends (from the underneath side) with brass screws and used two other brass screws fitted into slotted holes on the outer ends of the breadboard tops. The ends are very strong and have not yielded to children dancing on them.

[glenn bradley]

Just my humble opinion inserted below . . .


I had a couple more questions about these breadboards if someone didn't mind answering.....

- Is there a significant difference in doing three tenons as opposed to one long tenon? My problem is, I do not have a mortiser and I think I am going to have difficulty cutting three mortises in the breadboards effectively. One long tenon would be much easier for me.
>>> I have used full length tenons and also a full length mortise with an altered tenon like so:

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- If I have slight cupping after the glue up, should I sand the table flat before cutting the breadboards? I have a locking straight edge with router attachment that I am going to slide right down the straight edge taking off little by little top and bottom of the tenon.
>>> I would finish dimensioning the blank before cutting the tenon.

- If one long tenon suffices, I ended up planning on 2 1/2" deep on table, 3/4" thick, and one continuous mortise in the breadboard stopping short of the ends, but still allowing for movement. And still pinning across the long breadboard in several places.
>>> I have done this without issue. If both ends will be exposed, leave 1/2" or so at each end of the mortise, pin as fixed in the middle and use slots for pins as you move toward the outer ends. This lets the panel expand and contract both directions from the middle.

I am concerned with the elbow leaners.....Thanks again!

[Ryan Tea]

I built a coffee table and some matching end tables out of old joist/rafter reclaimed chestnut (complete with square nails and multiple blackened nail holes) back in the 1980's and used full-length tenons and full-length grooves (showing on the outer ends) for all breadboard ends. My tops were around the same thickness as you are planning on and I have had zero issues with the furniture since building the pieces. As I recall, I used the 2/3 length rule for the tenon lengths and really show virtually no movement on the exposed breadboard ends (due to seasonal expansion-contraction) probably due to a combination of a poly finish and year around climate controlled AC atmosphere. I fixed the centers of the breadboard ends (from the underneath side) with brass screws and used two other brass screws fitted into slotted holes on the outer ends of the breadboard tops. The ends are very strong and have not yielded to children dancing on them.


David, thank you much for the reassurance. I think the table you have built is exactly the same concept that I am going with. And I hope it holds up just as yours did.