Table saw questions - Sears 1.5 hp Contractor - 10"

[Rick Johnston]

Problem: bad cut, burning and nick in the piece with ripping

Blade is a Freud P410 thin kerf, which is their next generation premier fusion - 40 T. I've checked the saw fence, blade and miter slot alignment - they are good. Though not with a dial readout gage, I've used rulers, precision digital calipers, feeler gages etc.

I've made 4 coffee tables and some other small projects with the current blade which has been on the saw 14 months. Mostly hard and some soft maple was the material.

As I recall the cut was pretty good in the beginning. The blade does not feel that dull, but the cut is poor with some burning. You will also notice that rip cuts off the fence keep giving me that little offset nick in the piece for the last 1/2". I use a push stick and a mag feather board.
Solutions:
1. I'm thinking the blade must be dull, but I thought it would go longer than it has. (no nail cuts, particle board or plywood has gone through it) Most of my cross cuts are with a Dewalt 12" miter saw - so the table saw blade has not seen that work either. I'm planning on sending the P410 out for sharpening. Plus buying a Freud glue joint 30 T blade for dedicated ripping.

2. My fence length is likely an issue with it not being long enough. That may be the culprit with the little nick I keep getting at the end of the cut. My plan is to go to the metal shop and find an aluminum structural shape that I can either clamp to my existing fence (a channel shape that goes over it like a hat might be good) or perhaps a more permanent attachment with bolts. How much longer should the fence be???

Thanks Rick (I know the guard is not there........)

[Jerry Miner]

Dull blade.

Fence is plenty long (Some would tell you it's TOO long--- that it should run from front of saw to blade only, but I like a long fence like yours)

[Michelle Rich]

not your fence length..dull blade or your handling of the process how are you pushing the wood thru? do you have it in control and doing it smoothly? are you suing a push stick, or a Gripper? Is that yellow gizmo in your mitre slot set correctly?

[Rich Riddle]

Send the blade to Forrest for sharpening; they will sharpen any blade.

[Earl McLain]

May sound like stupid questions, but...Has the blade been cleaned? Table waxed? I'd try those first, even though the blade doesn't look pitchy there may be some friction. With no splitter in sight, is your lumber wrapping itself around the blade on the back side of the cut? Finally, when i was using my fence like that, i found that adjusting the far end away from the blade (like a business card width or less) resulted in much better rip cuts.

May be dull, but i'd try cleaning first.

earl

[Mike Cutler]

Fence is fine. There are zillions like it in use.
The blade probably could use a little sharpening, but Earl makes a good point. How long has it been since you really cleaned it good? You'd be surprised at how much a dirty blade can effect a cut. Get some lacquer thinner, or blade cleaner, a good stiff nylon brush and clean the teeth and gullets really well.

[Lee Schierer]

As other have said, try cleaning your blade and waxing the table top. My experience with aluminum fences is that they flex. I would highly recommend getting a dial indicator and checking the alignment of the fence to the miter slot. The other problem could be that your fence doesn't self align properly every time you move it. You can get a decent dial indicator from Harbor Freight for less than $20. I mounted mine to a block of wood that attaches to my miter gauge so I can check the alignment the full length of the fence. I found that my previous attempts to align my craftsman saw were close, but I got much closer with the dial indicator.

[glenn bradley]

I also prefer the longer fence as that is what I am used to but, as stated, there are designs that allow the stock to come free at the leading edge of the blade. That being said; maple will burn if you give it an excuse so I'm in the "clean your blade" and try again camp. The "nick" is path deviation; that part of the material is moving into the blade or vise versa.

Thin kerf blades can do a wonderful job but, the can deviate more easily than full kerf blades if forced. Your feed path may be putting stresses you don't realize and when the last bit is at the rear of the blade it finally is free enough to try to pivot.

Another possibility is blade 'flutter' as the stress is removed but, this would probably reveal other issues on other cuts. I never found blade stabilizers to be a better fix than curing the root cause for blade / feed path issues. Its like forcing your bandsaw to track instead of just setting it up correctly.

As others have said, aligning your saw with dial calipers or a piece of wood with a brass screw in it is fine if it works for you. When your results are not satisfactory after "rough" setups like that it is time to look closer.

I use a cheap Harbor Freight dial indicator like Lee mentions. Even a hobby machinist would cringe at the thought but, it is well within the range of accurate that one requires to setup a contractor saw. You can make a setup rig like so:

337232 . 337231

337230 . 337229

337228

These pics are to show the tool, you would use your miter slot that you run your gauge in for actual alignment of blade and fence.

337233 . 337234

[Rick Johnston]

Thanks for the great replies.
The blade has been cleaned with a brush and simple green.
The magnetic feather board is setup behind the blade - just touching.
I've tried having the outfeed fence tilted just a little out.
Harbor freight must have quit carrying the readout gage?? I'm not opposed to buying one - recommended kit/one from Amazon?
The bed is pretty slick though not recently waxed.
The thin kerf blade flexing with the feed rate and resistance of a dull blade may well be an issue.
I've tried many methods of pushing the stock through and it's almost impossible to keep from getting that nick.

Time to sharpen the blade plus buy a dedicated glue line rip!
I sharpen a lot of hand knives. It's easy to tell when their sharp. I've come to the conclusion that it's difficult to tell that for a saw blade and how it cuts is the only real method?

[scott spencer]

The Fusion blade has extremely tight side clearances, as well as a dual side grind, which are inherently more prone to burning. If the wood is thick, blade is dull, dirty or all of the above, it'll exaggerate that tendency. Until you're ready to send it out for sharpening, you can try raising the blade height.

[john lawson]

Looks like your fence is misaligned to the blade. Bump it away from the blade. If it bumps easily that is the problem. If it doesn't move by bumping it that's good, it means the fence holds it's setting. Then you may have to loosen a bolt(s) and realign it.

This is important for another reason, a misaligned blade to the fence can cause kickback.

Edit: Your fence may also be misaligned to the miter slot as well, very important that the fence be aligned to the blade.

[Robert Engel]

First, I agree sounds like the blade is dull. Thin kerf blades have less carbide and do not last as long, especially with hard maple.

Second, I typically use a 30 or even 24T for ripping. New blades and/or glue line rips will always leave a good surface in the beginning, but if you are sanding or planing its no big deal.

Third, please don't take offense, but IMO part of your problem is related to the inherent limitations of your TS. 1) Too fast a feed -> motor bogging -> lower blade speed -> heat -> dulling & burning. Unless the blade is pretty new this will become evident much faster than a cabinet level saw, especially with a TK blade, 2) the quality of the cut can be affected by fences that are generally not the best quality or do not hold their settings.

I would attach a strip of UHMW plastic, MDF, or hardwood to the fence.

I used a saw like yours for several years. When I finally bit the bullet and upgraded to a 3HP cabinet saw I realized how limited my old TS was.

I'm not saying you need to jump out and buy a new saw. I would go with a 24 or 30T TK blade, double check your blade/fence alignment. I set mine at .003 wider at the back of blade. If the material is binding between the fence and blade this leads to heating/dulling. Last but not least, don't bog the saw (easy to do with 8/4 maple).

[Rick Johnston]

The fusion blade has some unique characteristics. Before I send it out to the service, is this something I need to ask the service about. Unique sounds like a special sharpening upgrade fee....... still better than buying new I'd have to think.
And yes Robert, I've been bogging the saw - somewhere I thought a fast feed rate was what you are supposed to do..... With a new dedicated rip blade do I want to get the thin kerf?

[Rick Johnston]

Robert, what was the reasoning for the material attachment to the fence? To make it glide easier - to make longer? It's very smooth now with the aluminum and seems the fence length is okay per some posts.

[scott spencer]

The fusion blade has some unique characteristics. Before I send it out to the service, is this something I need to ask the service about. Unique sounds like a special sharpening upgrade fee....... still better than buying new I'd have to think.
And yes Robert, I've been bogging the saw - somewhere I thought a fast feed rate was what you are supposed to do..... With a new dedicated rip blade do I want to get the thin kerf?

I would definitely find a top notch sharpening place who is familiar with the geometry of the Fusion blade. Scott Whiting's in Glendale, AZ. Dynamic Saw in Buffalo, Ridge Carbide in NJ, Forrest in NJ, etc.

I would go a good 24T TK ripper like the Freud LU87, CMT 202.024.10, Infinity 010-124, Forrest 20T WWII TK, etc. If you go for one the 30T GLR's, you'll likely find that you really haven't gained much capacity that you didn't already have with the 40T Fusion...both have very tight side clearances to create polished edges, which as mentioned, have more tendency to burn.

[Doug Garson]

Did you say the featherboard was behind the blade? The featherboard should be ahead of the blade ie just before the blade on the infeed side. Perhaps post a picture of your setup.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Is the nick in the leading edge of the board or the trailing edge of the board? I define leading edge as the first edge of the board to make contact during a cut.

I agree with Doug. The feather board should be set up so that it maintains pressure just prior to the board touching the blade on the infeed side of the blade.

[Lee Schierer]

Harbor freight must have quit carrying the readout gage?? I'm not opposed to buying one - recommended kit/one from Amazon?

Harbor Freight Dial Indicator (http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html)

Amazon Dial Indicator (http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-7169-0-1-Inch-Dial-Indicator/dp/B000NPPBVK/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1462909123&sr=8-5&keywords=dial+indicator)

[Rick Johnston]

The Nick was on the trailing edge. Yes, the feather board is at the front of the blade.

[Rick Johnston]

Update:
Borrowed a readout gage. - Lee you were right....
The slot to blade was probably .005 - some variation subject to which slot I used. The fence was 16 thousandths out with it narrower at the back of the blade!!! After some tweaking I got to .003. Considering saw equipment - not going to get closer than that.

I took my blade to be re - sharpened this morning. I suppose if I still had it, a new test would be worth doing.
I took a new freud blade while in the lumberyard and nicked my fingernail to feel the difference. There was a noticeable difference between mine and a new one.

[Robert Engel]

Robert, what was the reasoning for the material attachment to the fence? To make it glide easier - to make longer? It's very smooth now with the aluminum and seems the fence length is okay per some posts.Not totally necessary just personal preference based on experience dinging wood on sharp corners of fence.

Sounds like your ready to go.

[Rick Johnston]

Robert, do I need to be concerned at this point about which way the tolerance is out? Like is the blade is making contact first at the front vs the back and with the fence tolerance greater at the back of the saw. I don't remember when I finished last night - but I'm going to check again.