Gents dovetail saw

[Kenneth Fisher]

For some reason I have become obsessed with finding a gents dovetail saw. The problem is that most of them look cheap. The veritas gents saw doesn't, but neither doesn't it look all that great.

Are there any saw makers out there making classic looking gents of decent quality?

[lowell holmes]

I have a freud gents saw. My Lie Nielsen dovetail saw puts it to shame. The freud never is used.

[Mike Henderson]

I have a freud gents saw. My Lie Nielsen dovetail saw puts it to shame. The freud never is used.
Amen. Get a real dovetail saw, not a gent's saw.

Mike

[While there may be some gent's saws that are filed rip, many are filed crosscut and have too fine of teeth for good dovetail sawing. You want one that's about 15TPI, rip. Also, I find that the handle of a regular dovetail saw gives you better control than the traditional gent's saw handle.]

[Kees Heiden]

Pedder and Klaus from Two Lawyer Saws make them sometimes. They sure are a cut above the rest!

[Patrick Chase]

For some reason I have become obsessed with finding a gents dovetail saw. The problem is that most of them look cheap. The veritas gents saw doesn't, but neither doesn't it look all that great.

Are there any saw makers out there making classic looking gents of decent quality?

I have the Veritas gent's rip saw (bought for my son) and it's made to the same quality as their conventional DT saws, which is to say very high quality but also very nontraditional and therefore polarizing.

The only catch is that it's a 20 tpi toothing with relaxed 14 deg rake, so not exactly blazing fast. If I were going to use it myself I'd refile at 8-10 deg.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer a gent's saw for dovetails? Like most people here I think that I get better control with a conventional saw with moderate hang angle (45 deg or so), though I also know people who prefer gent's saws for various reasons.

[Patrick Chase]

Amen. Get a real dovetail saw, not a gent's saw.

I think that's a bit strong. The cheapo gent's saws (Crown, Two Cherries, etc) are to be avoided, but there are a couple makers that build gent's saws to the same standard as good conventional DT saws. At that point it's mostly a matter of subjective and ergonomic preference, and there is no single "right" answer.

[Patrick Chase]

Pedder and Klaus from Two Lawyer Saws make them sometimes. They sure are a cut above the rest!

Do they make you sign a liability waiver at the time of purchase?

Sorry, when I read your post I had this indelible mental image of ambulance chasers (American idiom for personal injury lawyers) selling edge tools...

[Mike Brady]

Don't discount the gent's saw concept based on a few examples of mediocre ones mentioned. The Lie-Nielsen gents saw is absolutely to be sought after, even if you have to wait for them to make one for you. It is one I go-to for smaller dovetails because it has a thin plate saw with shallow depth and slight set. I use it when making smaller boxes or small drawers. The long tapered handle is like an extension of you forearm. I think they were $75$ when I bought mine. I have the crosscut version too.

[george wilson]

Maybe if you had been here longer you would know who they are. They make super fine quality saws.

[Brent Cutshall]

A friend of mine has a gents saw that I sharpened for him and I, as a considerate human being, selflessly tested it out. Now this was a no name, vintage, fairly used gents saw and it saws awesome. The rumors that dovetail saws control better than gents saws are questionable though. I find them just easy to control as a dovetail saw and less bulky too, I guess it's all about what you get used to using. Coming from a (wannabe)saw critique, I find that vintage saws always satisfy as well as new ones do. Disston, Atkins, and their filter throughs made great saws that are easily accessible and paid for.

[Curt Putnam]

You might want to check out Kevin Glen-Drake's gent style saw. it's not verry traditional but it is, IMO, a very serious and especially good saw. It's my # 2 since acquiring an Issac Smith dovetail saw.

[Rich Riddle]

Ron Bontz makes a good one.

[Kenneth Fisher]

I have the Veritas gent's rip saw (bought for my son) and it's made to the same quality as their conventional DT saws, which is to say very high quality but also very nontraditional and therefore polarizing.

The only catch is that it's a 20 tpi toothing with relaxed 14 deg rake, so not exactly blazing fast. If I were going to use it myself I'd refile at 8-10 deg.

Out of curiosity why do you prefer a gent's saw for dovetails? Like most people here I think that I get better control with a conventional saw with moderate hang angle (45 deg or so), though I also know people who prefer gent's saws for various reasons.

Like you say, it's polarizing. The Veritas saws are a bit too fine of a tooth for me. I'd like to find a good quality 10" 15 ppi saw.

It's not that I prefer a gents saw, I've just become fixated on finding a good one.


Don't discount the gent's saw concept based on a few examples of mediocre ones mentioned. The Lie-Nielsen gents saw is absolutely to be sought after, even if you have to wait for them to make one for you. It is one I go-to for smaller dovetails because it has a thin plate saw with shallow depth and slight set. I use it when making smaller boxes or small drawers. The long tapered handle is like an extension of you forearm. I think they were $75$ when I bought mine. I have the crosscut version too.

I did not know Lie-Nielsen made a gents saw. I'll have to do some more research and see what I can find. Thank you.


A friend of mine has a gents saw that I sharpened for him and I, as a considerate human being, selflessly tested it out. Now this was a no name, vintage, fairly used gents saw and it saws awesome. The rumors that dovetail saws control better than gents saws are questionable though. I find them just easy to control as a dovetail saw and less bulky too, I guess it's all about what you get used to using. Coming from a (wannabe)saw critique, I find that vintage saws always satisfy as well as new ones do. Disston, Atkins, and their filter throughs made great saws that are easily accessible and paid for.

I've been keeping my eyes open for a good vintage gents saw, I'm mostly seeing cheap late 1990s Stanley and Craftsman. I'd love to find an old Disston 68, the ones I've seen are either to beat up or have a price beyond what I'm willing to pay.


You might want to check out Kevin Glen-Drake's gent style saw. it's not verry traditional but it is, IMO, a very serious and especially good saw. It's my # 2 since acquiring an Issac Smith dovetail saw.

I saw these at the Portland Lie-Nielsen tool event. I gotta say I'm not a fan, beautiful work, but not for me.


Ron Bontz makes a good one.

Plan B is seeing what it'll take to order one of his kits and turning my own handle.

[lowell holmes]

A friend of mine has a gents saw that I sharpened for him and I, as a considerate human being, selflessly tested it out. Now this was a no name, vintage, fairly used gents saw and it saws awesome. The rumors that dovetail saws control better than gents saws are questionable though. I find them just easy to control as a dovetail saw and less bulky too, I guess it's all about what you get used to using. Coming from a (wannabe)saw critique, I find that vintage saws always satisfy as well as new ones do. Disston, Atkins, and their filter throughs made great saws that are easily accessible and paid for.

The problem I have with the gents saws I've used is the tooth pattern, both size, number, and set. The straight handles are usable, but not nearly as nice as the LN handles. I have old Disston back saws that have been re-toothed and sharpened as well LN backsaws. I've never experienced a straight handled back saw that is as nice as any of my Lie Nielsen saws. The gents saws I have seen and used are for the most part shorter saws that just don't lend themselves to the feel and effectiveness of my backsaws.

That doesn't mean they don't exist, I've just not been privileged to use one.

[Andrey Kharitonkin]

You might want to check out Kevin Glen-Drake's gent style saw. it's not verry traditional but it is, IMO, a very serious and especially good saw. It's my # 2 since acquiring an Issac Smith dovetail saw.
+1

Don't have one but can say what I've read in Internet. Paul Sellers also recommended that as one of the modern tools that actually better than vintage ones. And Derek Cohen also made great review of it: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw.html

It has so called "low center of effort" because of the bent handle. Supposedly, makes it easier to control. Here is how it looks like:
337210
From here: http://www.glen-drake.com/Joinery-Saw.html

There are also taller blades with different PPI and you can reverse blade to get pull saw, japanese style ;-) For dovetails you probably want small blade with rip teeth.

[Derek Cohen]

And Derek Cohen also made great review of it: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRev...oinerySaw.html (http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/GlenDrakeJoinerySaw.html)

Thanks Andrey. However, I did not like the saw, and my conclusions were not positive. It is certainly an interesting design, and I applaud Kevin Drake's inventiveness, but the saw does not feel natural.

Klaus and Pedder have a better handle design (the bulbous end is pushed by the palm). This is a key element in the use of a gent saw. A straight handle is ergonomic when pulling, as in a duzuki, however in a push saw it offers little support. A Western handle is a more natural design for pushing, in my opinion.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks Andrey. However, I did not like the saw, and my conclusions were not positive. It is certainly an interesting design, and I applaud Kevin Drake's inventiveness, but the saw does not feel natural.

Great review, and if anything generous to the Glen-Drake saw IMO. I've used one a couple times, and it's never "felt right" to me. It did inspire me to start playing more with progressive toothings, though I keep the pitch constant and vary rake.

I think that Glen-Drake is very hit-and-miss in general. The Tite-Mark is obviously a terrific product, that has inspired countless clones. On the other extreme the hammers make absolutely no sense to me. The longer handle on a traditional mallet is there for a reason, and taking that away and forcing people to swing entirely from the elbow/shoulder is an ergonomic step backwards IMO. The saw lies somewhere in between.

One nitpick: The link in your review to the "offset gauge" (apparently G-D decided "feeler gauges" and "shim stock" don't suffice to describe it) has become broken. It appears that Glen-Drake no longer uses the 'play-glen-drake.com' domain you linked.

[Mike Brady]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/lienielsen_saws_for_sale_004cmp_3655_zps9dkvyeqt.j pg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/finefettle/media/lienielsen_saws_for_sale_004cmp_3655_zps9dkvyeqt.j pg.html)
The Lie-Nielsen gents saw.

[Kenneth Fisher]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee300/finefettle/lienielsen_saws_for_sale_004cmp_3655_zps9dkvyeqt.j pg (http://s234.photobucket.com/user/finefettle/media/lienielsen_saws_for_sale_004cmp_3655_zps9dkvyeqt.j pg.html)
The Lie-Nielsen gents saw.
That's a nice looking saw, thanks for posting the picture. I'm definitely going to keep my eyes open for one.