Semi OT - Coal Bin construction

[Bill Grumbine]

Greetings all

This is semi OT since I will be building this bin from wood. ;) My plans to deprive OPEC of my hard earned money are steadily coming together. Our wood furnace is on the way, and we have ordered the option of a coal grate so that we may also burn coal. With that in mind, I need to construct a coal bin. I have some ideas, but thought that I would poll the collective wisdom (and inevitable wisenheimers) to see what, if anything, others have done.

I am planning on a capacity of three or four tons, which should be more than enough for the winter considering that my main source of heat is going to be wood. According to the guy at the coal supply house, one ton of nut coal occupies 40 cu ft. Three tons would fit nicely in a box 4' x 4' x 8', but I would like to put some sort of beveled floor in it, sloped towards the access point, so that I do not have to climb in to shovel as the winter progresses.

I am wondering if anyone here has been through this and has some wisdom to offer. Ideas are always appreciated.

Thanks.

Bill

[Andy Hoyt]

Bill -I've no direct experience with what you seek -- but. First two things that I'd consider are whether or not the floor upon which this will sit can handle the 200 psf load this thing will generate.

And that said, the thing itself will have to be pretty stout to handle that same load. A such, suggest you think about timberframing it.

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Andy

This is going in an old corn crib. Now, this ain't your ordinary old corn crib. The floor is 17" thick concrete, and that is just to ground level. I am not sure how far down the concrete goes, but it has been there for at least 40 years and has not moved or cracked. The sides are 2' x 6" oak studs every 2' fastened to the concrete with angle iron. I am putting in plywood sides on the inside of the oak, so I think it should handle it. If not, there is plenty of room for the coal to go when the sides split. :eek:

Bill

[Andy Hoyt]

Only 17" thick! I dunno, you might need to boost that up to 17.1" :D

So the support sounds stout enough, the walls sound okay too.

How much overhead room do you have?

Is this below grade or above?

[Bill Grumbine]

Only 17" thick! I dunno, you might need to boost that up to 17.1" :D

So the support sounds stout enough, the walls sound okay too.

How much overhead room do you have?

Is this below grade or above?

Not only is it not in the cellar, it is not even close to the house! The corn crib is approximately 135' away from the house, and uphill to boot. The furnace is an outdoor furnace which will be burning wood and coal, and piping the heat to the house via underground tubing. Overhead room is something like 12'. I'll be sure to post pictures once it is up and running.

Bill

[Andy Hoyt]

Bill - Lemme know when you no longer need advice - you did ask for it.

The floor of the bin is critical what with a 200 to 250 lbs/psf load. But to design it, think of a roof with a 4' run and a 2' rise. aka 6/12 pitch; and frame it with 4x6 rafters (sloped joists in your case) at 16" o/c or so.

I'm assuming you're gonna do this farmer fashion with freshly sawn logs, a chain saw and a bunch of big 8" spikes - which is fine.

I could draw it up for you, but I'm guessing you can handle that.

The challenge of course will be to make maximum use of your Poolewood throughout the process.

[Steve Clardy]

Bill. Around here the dairy farmers use steel bins sit out in the pastures to store grain for cattle. They have a sloped floor in them, slide gate access. Looking at them, the floor is sloped about 45 degrees.
Maybe something to consider other than building or retroing something. It could be setup next to your stove. I have no idea what they cost.

[Bob Weisner]

How much is a ton of coal going for these days?

[Roger Fitzsimonds]

Hi Bill,

My dad used coal to heat his Wyoming farm house. The bin was adjacent to the furnace, and the coal was fed by an auger. 135 feet is a long auger. If there is enough slope you could have an auger on both ends and let gravity move it in the middle. I will be interested how you work this out though. I am moving from OPEC's clutches as I can.

Roger

[Bill Grumbine]

Good morning guys

I think I need to provide a few more details here. The furnace is an outdoor furnace, not indoor. It burns wood or coal, and conveys heat to the house by means of hot water in tubes running under the ground. The outdoor location is desirable for a number of reasons, insurance and mess being the two biggest.

Literature from a number of these companies indicate that these furnaces can be located as far as 400' from the house, but that is a long way to go and a lot of water to heat! We are putting ours where we are because we have ready built wood storage in a corn crib that is 60" wide, and approximately 12' high and 35' long. It sits on top of the hill right next to the road, and gets the sun and the wind all day long, which will help dramatically for drying freshly cut wood. With its roof and screening, it helps keep the rain and snow out. So there is where the 135' comes in.

There is no auger to move the coal. We have two coal shovels for that. The primary fuel is going to be wood, of which I have more than I can use right now for turning or for heating. That will change I am sure, with the advent of this furnace, which is why we opted for the coal option. We live just south of the anthracite coal region of NE PA, where some of the best coal in the world is mined. Bob, the price of a ton of coal varies by location. I am getting quotes of $170/ton. My father, who also burns coal, and who lives 60 miles north of me, and a lot closer to the mines, is getting a price of $130/ton.

The best thing is, we are having the hot water from this furnace routed right through our oil burner, which is relatively new, having been installed about two years before we bought the house. If I get hurt, sick, or am out of town, and the fire goes out, the oil burner will kick on automatically. We will be running it from time to time to keep it limbered up, and all summer for domestic hot water.

Steve, thanks for the tip on the feed bin. I will check that out.

Andy, I am not much for doing things the way some of the farmers do. If I do end up building this bin, I will be building the supports for the slope much the way a wooden trestle bridge was built - lots of wood close together, with angles cut to ensure proper contact with all parts of the load bearing members. I am not an engineer, but I sure know how to overengineer stuff.

Oh yeah, when I first asked about these things, I had a bunch of people saying things like, you don't want to have to go outside every day to stoke this thing, do you? Well according to owners in my area, stoking occurs twice a day at the most, and truth be told, I cannot imagine not going outside every day. I would have cabin fever in a day or two! Of all the time we have lived here, the only days I have been inside all day have been those when I have been too sick to get out of bed, usually with the flu, and even then there have been times when I was out plowing snow because it had to be done. I know there are people who go from the house to the attached garage to the car to the garage at work and then to the attached building, and never get a breath of fresh air for weeks on end, but I am glad I am not one of them.

Bill

[Steve Clardy]

Yea. I think I would go the bin route if I ever go coal.

Coal is quite a ways off for me. Up north about 100 miles.
Maybe you could do a little searching around some feed lots and find you a used one.

Steve