White Oak Trestle Desk Journal

[Mike Cherry]

The wife is retiring after 20 years in the US Marine Corps. She has requested a desk and I found a design that we both agreed on. She chose white oak because she is from Thousand Oaks, CA. I didnt argue at first because I have seldom used white oak and it seems like a good challenge. After buying the lumber, all I can say is that Im Glad I have a teenage son who can help me move this desk when its done.

The pictures below represent what I got done over the weekend. I work alot so progress might be a tad slow, but my favorite thing about this hobby is that you can work in bite size pieces that eventually amount to a finished piece.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0829.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0829.jpg.html)

Made a template while eating breakfast and having some coffee.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0830.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0830.jpg.html)

Laid the templates out in an effort to save material. Because of this I had some weird cuts to make with the hand saw. Note to self: Just make straight cuts when rough cutting boards.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0831.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0831.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0836.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0836.jpg.html)

This is one of those weird cuts :(

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0837.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0837.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0839.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0839.jpg.html)

This is my moderately cambered #5 that I use for roughing. It left a pretty decent finish already so I got to see a glimmer of what might become later :)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0840.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0840.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0842.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0842.jpg.html)

Cutting numerous cross cuts so that wasting will be easier with a chisel. Is this how you guys would do it? Aside from using a bandsaw, of course.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0843.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/DSCN0843.jpg.html)

Of course I cut myself.....Ill be surprised if this is the only blood I spill.

Blood...check
sweat...check
tears....not yet :)

I'd love to hear any thoughts you guys have and any ideas you might have that could make this project better. I am using 8/4 for the legs and probably 5/4 or 6/4 for the top depending on what I can find locally.

[Brian Holcombe]

Mike, you can use a turning saw or bow saw to knock out that waste as well.

I credit white oak for having taught me how to sharpen. :D

[Mike Cherry]

Ahh good call Brian. I only have a dinky coping saw and the blade heated up so fast trying to cut 8/4. It gave up the ghost so fast. I have been eyeing a kit from TFWW for a while now. Love to make my own from some left over white oak! Just need to figure out a blade or two for it I guess. I'd really like to try a round tenon like the bow saws have.

[Zuye Zheng]

Looks like off to a great start, beautiful tenon saw!

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Looking good. I also christen every project with a little blood. It is a tradition I need to break from!

[Kees Heiden]

Or an axe, that's even faster. The axe was used a lot in period workshops. A bow saw is nice but is rather slow and hard to keep the cut square.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Depending on the material I sometimes just make cross cuts like you have done (maybe I make them a little closer, hard to tell from the close-ups), and then snap the waste out with a flat screwdriver inserted in the cross-cuts. You still need to clean everything up with a chisel, but it is quick and easy with 90% of the waste gone.

[ken hatch]

Ahh good call Brian. I only have a dinky coping saw and the blade heated up so fast trying to cut 8/4. It gave up the ghost so fast. I have been eyeing a kit from TFWW for a while now. Love to make my own from some left over white oak! Just need to figure out a blade or two for it I guess. I'd really like to try a round tenon like the bow saws have.

Mike

You might want to re-think the WO. As you will find working it, it splits very easily. I've busted two TFWW bow saw arms by splitting them while tightening the saw. Careless I know but, the last time I made a new arm out of Beach and it has not split....yet :o. Could be I don't go Conan on 'em anymore as well.

BTW, the saw, the TFWW bowsaw, is great and I use it all the time. It is much better than a coping saw. The TFWW bow saw blades are between a coping saw blade and a fret saw blade in thickness and are very good. With one of the Bad Axe dovetail saws (little set, thin blade) I can not easily use a coping saw to clean out the waste, either the fret saw or TFWW bow saw is needed. I've finally learned how to use a fret saw for cutting dovetail waste and it is the best but I broke a ton of fret saw blades getting there.

ken

[Mike Cherry]

Looks like off to a great start, beautiful tenon saw!

The badaxe in the photo is actually a 12 inch carcase saw. I do have the tenon saw so we will see that one later! Stay tuned��


Looking good. I also christen every project with a little blood. It is a tradition I need to break from!

Good to know I'm not the only one haha.


Or an axe, that's even faster. The axe was used a lot in period workshops. A bow saw is nice but is rather slow and hard to keep the cut square.

Thats also a good idea Kees, I have looked at axes over on LN's site. They are all beautiful, but I get a little overwhelmed with all the choices because I'm not sure which one would suit me best. I would love to have an axe that I can use to quickly split material along the grain and clean up with the number 5. Maybe avoid the rip saw every once in a while.



Depending on the material I sometimes just make cross cuts like you have done (maybe I make them a little closer, hard to tell from the close-ups), and then snap the waste out with a flat screwdriver inserted in the cross-cuts. You still need to clean everything up with a chisel, but it is quick and easy with 90% of the waste gone.

That's really smart Nicholas. I didn't think about using just a screw driver. I have really come to love the times when I can just take mallet and chisel in hand and waste things out. It's relaxing and fast. The white oak isn't as fast as other woods but it's still a pleasure.


Mike

You might want to re-think the WO. As you will find working it, it splits very easily. I've busted two TFWW bow saw arms by splitting them while tightening the saw. Careless I know but, the last time I made a new arm out of Beach and it has not split....yet :o. Could be I don't go Conan on 'em anymore as well.

BTW, the saw, the TFWW bowsaw, is great and I use it all the time. It is much better than a coping saw. The TFWW bow saw blades are between a coping saw blade and a fret saw blade in thickness and are very good. With one of the Bad Axe dovetail saws (little set, thin blade) I can not easily use a coping saw to clean out the waste, either the fret saw or TFWW bow saw is needed. I've finally learned how to use a fret saw for cutting dovetail waste and it is the best but I broke a ton of fret saw blades getting there.

ken

Thanks for the heads up Ken. I noticed also when this wood splits, it's not a clean split like cherry or something. No sir! It's got some gnarly scary sharp as hell shards of pain spikes waiting to taste blood haha.
While we're one the subject, what about hickory for a bowsaw. I understand that it is a bear to work, but it would seem like a good choice for the application no?

[Prashun Patel]

This is a great thread. Looking forward to it!

For that curve, I might have drilled the curve with a forstner bit, and then cut in straight from both sides. From there, cleanup would have been easy with a rasp or spokeshave.

[Rollie Kelly]

For my family and me, thank your wife for her service to our country.
For roughing in curves and such, I have gone to saw shops and bought short lengths of 1/4" or less bandsaw blades. They are fine for roughing in but they wouldn't be my first choice for dovetails.

[Bob Glenn]

I think it was Folansbee who said, " The nice thing about white oak is that it splits really nice. The bad thing about white oak is that it splits really nice."

[Mike Allen1010]

Mike, this is a great project and a great occasion – thanks to you and your wife for your service!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the build. Thanks for posting

All the best, Mike

[Mike Cherry]

This is a great thread. Looking forward to it!

For that curve, I might have drilled the curve with a forstner bit, and then cut in straight from both sides. From there, cleanup would have been easy with a rasp or spokeshave.

Thats. Really good idea as well! So many ways to skin the cat haha


For my family and me, thank your wife for her service to our country.
For roughing in curves and such, I have gone to saw shops and bought short lengths of 1/4" or less bandsaw blades. They are fine for roughing in but they wouldn't be my first choice for dovetails.

Thanks Rollie, my wife and I met while in the Marine Corps and It doesn't seem like 20 years but time flies. Thanks for the saw blade tip, seems like a good way to get some blades for a bowsaw.


I think it was Folansbee who said, " The nice thing about white oak is that it splits really nice. The bad thing about white oak is that it splits really nice."

that sounds about right :) I do like the finish left after a sharp blade has had a go at this wood though.


Mike, this is a great project and a great occasion – thanks to you and your wife for your service!

I'm really looking forward to seeing the rest of the build. Thanks for posting

All the best, Mike


Thanks Mike, means a lot. I got the white oak from San Marcos Hardwoods, at your recommendation. Those guys have fair prices from what I've seen and a decent selection. I might have to go elsewhere for the top though, planning either 5/4 or 6/4. By the way, I got the design from one of the books you loaned me. I just realized I got a lot to thank you for haha!

[Brian Holcombe]

I was thinking something like the Woodjoy saw, the turbo cut blade is too big for small curves but cuts larger curves in a hurry. Bow saws are much like other saws in that you need a few sizes to do your full range of cabinet work.

Frankly I might approach this differently, but it's a bit riskier so I didn't recommend it. Since we're on the topic I'll bring it up. Kerf it like you are doing, then heavy knife marks at your stop line. Then take the chisel, bevel down (bevel toward the good side) and chop the waste out. It's a splitting action so it's quick. The risk on something like white oak is that it'll blast off an important part of your piece.

Splitting and sawing are fast, splitting is faster in many cases. The last resort is chopping out where you have to shear across the grain.

[Mike Cherry]

I'd like to start this update by saying that I appreciate the feedback from the community here. I have put off posting my work here for several reasons (mostly laziness) but reading the comments and such have really motivated me to get in the shop and get some work done. So if any of you are out there struggling with the decision to post a build, do it!

So anyway, on to the update. As promised, I havent got a lot of time to work on this bad boy but I did finish the first foot. I wont bore you guys with photos of the second foot in progress, but I will say that after gaining some wisdom from the first foot and having a better idea of how this wood works it will be done in half the time. As a result, I am nearing completion on the second foot. This has pretty much been my woodworking journey up to this point. I try something new, and it goes faster and better each subsequent time (usually).

Started out by getting everything to size. This is the 16 inch tenon saw that I promised Id show earlier to Zuye. Love this saw man, absolutely awesome.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2657.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2657.jpg.html)

The tools used to shape the arch in the foot. I used my chisel to split the waste out carefully. On the second foot, I will probably try Prashun's recommendation of using a screwdriver to remove the waste. Ill probably cut the kerfs closer together to make it easier.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2655.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2655.jpg.html)

Getting close to removing the saw marks. I realized, as Brian said earlier, that white oak does test sharpness. I had to spend some time on the stones with this blade before I could work the oak with relatively little effort. Time well spent for certain.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2656.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2656.jpg.html)


Behold, a foot!

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2658.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2658.jpg.html)

I gotta pick up the lumber for the top this weekend. The desk is to be roughly 60 x 28 or so. If I got three 10"wide boards that should do the trick. I am considering spending the extra coin for quartersawn because I am concerned about movement. The top will be secured to the legs by way of wooden buttons to help with movement. If I dont go quartersawn, what is the best way to join the top with regards to grain direction? I have read that you want to alternate the pith side of the boards adjacent to each other in order to cancel any cupping. For flatsawn wood anyways. What has worked well for you guys out there?

[Mike Cherry]

I was thinking something like the Woodjoy saw, the turbo cut blade is too big for small curves but cuts larger curves in a hurry. Bow saws are much like other saws in that you need a few sizes to do your full range of cabinet work.

Frankly I might approach this differently, but it's a bit riskier so I didn't recommend it. Since we're on the topic I'll bring it up. Kerf it like you are doing, then heavy knife marks at your stop line. Then take the chisel, bevel down (bevel toward the good side) and chop the waste out. It's a splitting action so it's quick. The risk on something like white oak is that it'll blast off an important part of your piece.

Splitting and sawing are fast, splitting is faster in many cases. The last resort is chopping out where you have to shear across the grain.

Yea bevel down was how I removed most of the waste. I too would warn anyone considering that to pay close attention to the grain because it could split further than you wanted. It seems like a risk/reward situation but since I didnt have a bowsaw or other tool better designed I opted for the chisel. Did I mention the chisel is my favorite tool? Its funny how many operations can be done with a chisel. I'm still learning to use a chisel, but the more I do the more it rewards me. It might be the most versatile tool in the shop!

[Prashun Patel]

Looks amazing!

Nice, clean work!

I would pony up for the QS for the top if you can afford it. The boards match easier this way, it looks better IMHO, you get all that fleck on top, and it's stable to boot.

If you have to do flatsawn, then IMHO, orient in this priority: 1) visual harmony on the top, 2) ease of smoothing, 3) visual harmony on the edge

[Mike Cherry]

Looks amazing!

Nice, clean work!

I would pony up for the QS for the top if you can afford it. The boards match easier this way, it looks better IMHO, you get all that fleck on top, and it's stable to boot.

If you have to do flatsawn, then IMHO, orient in this priority: 1) visual harmony on the top, 2) ease of smoothing, 3) visual harmony on the edge

Yea I hear you, I think the fleck would look awesome. Would it be weird, from a design standpoint to have that fleck in the top and not the base of the desk? My thinking is it would draw more attention to the top, which would be a good thing I suppose.

[Prashun Patel]

For some maybe it's an issue. For me, not. My office desk is QSWO on the top. However you orient the base grain, unless you wrap it, the flatsawn sides will contrast with the QS edges. I think your orientation of the feet is good, because your qs grain will run up the edge of the foot and up the edge of the leg; the front faces of those components should have harmonized grain IMHO, since they are in the same line as looking at them from the front. The side view presents the leg and foot at perpendicular orientation, so the flatsawn faces look better here; they're harder to line up.

Go QS on the top; you won't regret it.

[Brian Holcombe]

I agree with Prashun, and the foot is looking sharp!

[Mike Cherry]

I agree with Prashun, and the foot is looking sharp!

Thank you sir! The shavings coming out of the plane as I smoothed the beveled cuts were beautiful. I'll snap some pics when I smooth the other foot.

[Christopher Charles]

Great project for a great occasion. Thanks for posting and will look forward to following along. I also think QS is the way to go and won't be an issue with the legs.

Best,
C

[Chris Hachet]

Mike, you can use a turning saw or bow saw to knock out that waste as well.

I credit white oak for having taught me how to sharpen. :D

I work with white oak often and sharpen often....

[Mike Cherry]

Great project for a great occasion. Thanks for posting and will look forward to following along. I also think QS is the way to go and won't be an issue with the legs.

Best,
C

thanks For the interest Christopher. I actually have a 4/4 piece of QS white oak that I have been envisioning as the top and I'm sold. Of course money influences everything and it will depend heavily if I can get swing the extra cost for the stock or not.


I work with white oak often and sharpen often....

Totally know what you mean but so far I'm really enjoying this. I feel really accomplished that I've been able to work this wood so far with the ease and confidence that sharp tools provide. I know I have some room for growth in the sharpening department, but the fact that this is one of those pieces of wood that test ones sharpening ability proves to me that I'm on the right path.

[Stew Denton]

Mike,

Nice work so far. Like the rest, I am looking forward to the rest of the build as you get time to work on it. Also, thank you for the service your wife gave to the country.

I have never used white oak to my memory, but the grain looks like it will look awesome!

Stew

[Tony Wilkins]

Following and thank you both for you service!

[Mike Cherry]

Well, I got some pretty pictures mostly for you guys this time. This white oak is a great challenge to work and Im enjoying every minute of it. I was able to work at this in chunks here and there for this update so what you see here is really a culmination of a couple 1-2 hour sessions with the upper and lower feet. Ive been hard at work to locate some quarter sawn white oak that I feel will be suitable for the top. I want 6/4 but it seems 5/4 might have to work. The other issue that I had to learn how trees are quartersawn in order to understand why its difficult to find ~ 10" board widths. That might make it easier to glue up but I think Im gonna have more boards in this panel. I hope to do four boards at 7" or so wide. That would give me the roughly 28" or so top I want. I did find some 6/4 in San Diego which is about an hour south of me. I will be heading there in a couple weeks if all goes to plan.


http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2664.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2664.jpg.html)
So Im starting the roughing out of the arch in the foot here. I decided to use Prashun's suggestion and use a screwdriver to break the waste out. This worked quite well.
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2665.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2665.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2667.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2667.jpg.html)

I cleaned things up, as before, with a 10" 9 grain Auriou rasp and a LV spokeshave. I did make use of a card scraper here and there as well. One thing I didnt take a photo of was how I did the curves of the arch. On the first foot, I tried rather unsuccessfully, to cut it with a coping saw. Coping saws dont like 8/4 white oak. On the second foot I decided to just use a chisel bevel down and smooth that cut out with the rasp. I think if I were to do this again, I would like to try a bowsaw out for this cut. Not only this cut, but the entire arch in the bottom feet. That would have sped things up I think.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2683.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2683.jpg.html)

This is my Bedrock roundside #7 that was worked over by TablesawTom a couple years ago. Here Im flattening the portion of the upper leg that will be married to the desktop.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2673.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2673.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2679.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2679.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2685.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2685.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_2687.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_2687.jpg.html)

Heres an image depicting the parts needed for the legs. The vertical pieces that need joining to the upper and lower feet have yet to be milled, but I expect that will go fast as there are no bevels to cut like the feet had. Im getting myself mentally prepared for the leg joinery. The plan is to do twin mortise and tenons. This is a joint I have never done before but I am looking forward to greatly.

Thats all I got for now. As usual, if you have any ideas or suggestions regarding this project I'd love to hear em'. Thanks for looking guys and gals!

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Looks like it is coming along nicely Mike.

[Brian Holcombe]

Coming along nicely!

[Prashun Patel]

Looks wonderful. You're a brave man for Shawshanking the curve as you did.

I find it easier to cut my joinery before tapers and curves; it's just easier for me to have all sides available for referencing marking.

I can't wait to see it.

[Mike Cherry]

Looks wonderful. You're a brave man for Shawshanking the curve as you did.

I find it easier to cut my joinery before tapers and curves; it's just easier for me to have all sides available for referencing marking.

I can't wait to see it.

My first time dealing with curves and tapers in this manner. Hopefully it doesnt come around to bite me!

[Jerry Olexa]

Great thread! Enjoying it...thanks for posting...

[Mike Cherry]

Great thread! Enjoying it...thanks for posting...
Thanks Jerry.

*minor update*

Laid out the joinery for the legs. The three eights inch mortise chisel from TFWW has brittle steel that continues to chip no matter how far back I sharpen. TFWW is going to replace it, but that could be a while.

Meanwhile I have to figure out how to chop these mortises. I could drill and pare but I'm not sure how well that will work as I have never done that method before. My 3/8" LN bench chisel is too wimpy to tackle this white oak. I drove it in and gently started to lever out waste and it didn't feel good. I cancelled that operation.

So for now, I'm in a holding pattern. Think I'm gonna focus on cleaning the shop and prepping the top. Should be picking up the 6/4 QSWO this weekend.

[Prashun Patel]

Drill and pare. Necessity is the mother of learning a new skill.

[Prashun Patel]

Ue a 1/4" bit and overlap them as much as possible.

[John Roth]

Watching with interest. Beautiful photography. I particularly enjoy your thought process on the specific methods of work. Hope to pick up some tips.

[Mike Cherry]

Drill and pare. Necessity is the mother of learning a new skill.


Ue a 1/4" bit and overlap them as much as possible.

Wise words Prashun. I'm gonna give it a go. I assume a 1/4 bit so as to sneak up on the final width yes?


Watching with interest. Beautiful photography. I particularly enjoy your thought process on the specific methods of work. Hope to pick up some tips.

Thanks John. Truth be told, I'm learning some new things as well. Best thing I've done so far is post this log cause it keeps me engaged in the project and I am encouraged to find and try new methods for doing things. There's an example of that right here with Prashun encouraging me to give the mortises a shot with a method I've never used. Thanks for looking. I got the day off work today, hopefully I can get something done.

[Prashun Patel]

Yes, sneak up on the final width. There are a million methods of work here, but for my part, I like to outline the mortise with a bench chisel, and then pare shoulders before drilling. I always find it harder to make that clean shoulder on a wasted hole. I think it's psychological. "planing" the bottom is easier for me with a mortise chisel, so you may leave that for the end, but you can also get it with a skinny (1/8") chisel. Truth be told, I am not persnickety about the bottoms of my mortises, anyway and tend to make them a hair deeper than necessary so I can avoid all that corner clean up work. But looking at your work, I bet you'll demand a higher standard.

Also, you may find it easier to pare the walls with a skinnier chisel; removing less waste can help in keeping that chisel perfectly vertical (a thicker mortise chisel excels at this for me). So, pare carefully. You can take your final paring cuts with a wider chisel to get the wall in a single plane.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Meanwhile I have to figure out how to chop these mortises. I could drill and pare but I'm not sure how well that will work as I have never done that method before. My 3/8" LN bench chisel is too wimpy to tackle this white oak. I drove it in and gently started to lever out waste and it didn't feel good. I cancelled that operation.


I agree your best bet with what you have is to drill and pare. I have had the bet luck making the mortises first, and then fitting the tenons to them. I just picked up a pair of old Sorby mortise chisels, which I like very much.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Jerry.

*minor update*

Laid out the joinery for the legs. The three eights inch mortise chisel from TFWW has brittle steel that continues to chip no matter how far back I sharpen. TFWW is going to replace it, but that could be a while.

Meanwhile I have to figure out how to chop these mortises. I could drill and pare but I'm not sure how well that will work as I have never done that method before. My 3/8" LN bench chisel is too wimpy to tackle this white oak. I drove it in and gently started to lever out waste and it didn't feel good. I cancelled that operation.

So for now, I'm in a holding pattern. Think I'm gonna focus on cleaning the shop and prepping the top. Should be picking up the 6/4 QSWO this weekend.

White oak :D

Don't lever heavily, IMO. Chop the waste, then back the chisel out and just use it clear the waste. Don't lever out aggressively, there is little advantage and many disadvantages.

A bench chisel is going to have a rough time in white oak, I would revisit that 3/8 mortise chisel and just put a slight micro bevel on it.

[Mike Cherry]

White oak :D

Don't lever heavily, IMO. Chop the waste, then back the chisel out and just use it clear the waste. Don't lever out aggressively, there is little advantage and many disadvantages.

A bench chisel is going to have a rough time in white oak, I would revisit that 3/8 mortise chisel and just put a slight micro bevel on it.

Yea this white oak is fighting me on these mortises. I'm not surprised really. Using the drill and pare method, I've got half the mortises done. Should have some visual updates coming soon. Cheers!

[Brian Holcombe]

I've used both methods myself, I really prefer not to drill and pare if I can avoid it. It's an effective method, but I hate wasting out the peaks. I rather drill one hole and just knock the waste into that hole as I chop. I use this on really short/deep tenons typically.

[Zuye Zheng]

Looking great, got to try out the screwdriver trick.

[Christopher Charles]

Looks good! Thanks for posting and best of luck on your search for lumber for the desktop.

Best,
C

[Jerry Olexa]

Go slowly..White oak can be challenging...sharpen your chisels and plan ahead as Prashun said..Outline first

[Mike Cherry]

Alrighty so I been holding off on this update a bit just cause I really havent got alot done. I wish I had the mindset like some guys, but I get in the shop and my mind wanders. I end up overthinking things, taking it slow to ensure I dont mess something up too bad, yada yada. Also, Im slipping down the carving slope and its everything I can do to pull myself away from that nice and soft basswood hahaha. But alas, the white oak awaits...with not so loving arms! I dont know about yall, but there are some wood types that I just love the smell of. Walnut is probably my favorite that Ive worked with thus far, it just fills my shop with a wonderful smell. This oak, I dont know man it reminds of mustard or something. Well, I got to smell alot of mustard as I cut the tenons! So without further ado:

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2690.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2690.jpg.html)

Here's a little shot of what I hope will be the leg assemblies.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2691.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2691.jpg.html)

Mortise layout. Now the design Im following is from a book loaned to me by Mike Allen. They use twin mortise and tenons....more on that later!

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2693.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2693.jpg.html)

Ray Iles 3/8" Mortise Chisel doing work! I had some issues with this chisel if youve been following along. TFWW has great customer service and I am expecting a new one to be delivered soon.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2694.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2694.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2704.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2704.jpg.html)

So this is how I ended up doing the majority of the mortises. I basically removed an 1/8th inch or so and started my mortise. This was a tip from Prashun and Derek that I decided to give it a go. I liked this method.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2707.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2707.jpg.html)

All mortised are done on the leg assemblies. What you dont know is that this took me forever and a day. I got faster after doing a few but between the fact that the chisel kept chipping and this white oak....well I spent a good four hours just chopping. A little AC/DC and GnR goes a long way when chopping mortises.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2710.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2710.jpg.html)

Setting a trough for the carcase saw to rest in for the tenons.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2711.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2711.jpg.html)

I will say that you get some nice clean lines when laying out with white oak.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2715.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2715.jpg.html)

Quite amazing how much sawdust is produced when sawing this many tenons. More sawdust than Im used to anyways.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2716.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2716.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2720.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2720.jpg.html)

Okay so this is my first tenon Im trying desperately to fine tune it so it will fit. I think I sawed a little to far away from my lines as I didnt want to mess up. I think in retrospect, a single stub might have been enough. I suppose this will be stronger.

Alright, I hope Im not overloading you guys with too many pictures. I got one more for ya if your still with me...

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2718.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_2718.jpg.html)

Not a great picture, as it doesnt show just how much the rays really pop, but its the only one I took. I finally found some 6/4 QSWO and its beautiful. Gonna make a real nice top I think. Thats all for now guys. Cheers!

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice work Mike!

I have some tricks for the double tenons, WRT fitting. I use marking gauges called 'Kebiki' they're a double bladed marking gauge, I set one for the inside tenon and one for the outside tenon, then use the same reference face for both. If the material for mortised member and the tenoned member are the same thickness then I dont change the gauge at all, use the same settings for both mortise and tenon.

That way I'm not second guessing my marks and you know if a straight edge can touch both lines than the surface is good.

Before you insert the tenon, make certain you're chamfering the tops of those tenons.

Double tenons in white oak are far from '5 minute' jobs, that much is certain.

[Prashun Patel]

Great pix and progress, Mike. I was wondering last night where you were in the project. I know you know this, but align those boards for best planing... I wouldn't go nuts maximizing ray fleck from board to board. QSWO grain matches pretty easily in the end.

I've analyzed both white and red oak using mass spectroscopy. Oak (red and white) contains acetic and butyric acid. This is why it can smell like ketchup (not mustard) to feet, and anywhere in between. It's often a "I cant' decide if I hate or love it" smell. It's these acids that help it react to metal and water and other chemicals and makes it prone to (intentional or unintentional) chemical staining.

The acids tend to dissipate over time, and there are lovely, creamy lactones that are prevalent in white oak that give it a mossy, mouth watering aroma that is what a lot of people associate with aged, oak firewood.

Last, when it's burned - both during cutting and in a fire, more 'campfirey' compounds are generated. This is the aroma that pervades a commercial shop.

[Mike Cherry]

Nice work Mike!

I have some tricks for the double tenons, WRT fitting. I use marking gauges called 'Kebiki' they're a double bladed marking gauge, I set one for the inside tenon and one for the outside tenon, then use the same reference face for both. If the material for mortised member and the tenoned member are the same thickness then I dont change the gauge at all, use the same settings for both mortise and tenon.

That way I'm not second guessing my marks and you know if a straight edge can touch both lines than the surface is good.

Before you insert the tenon, make certain you're chamfering the tops of those tenons.

Double tenons in white oak are far from '5 minute' jobs, that much is certain.

Thanks for the encouragement Brian! I didn't snap any pictures, but it sounds like I used a similar technique with regards to the layout of the tenons. I used the Veritas dual wheel gauge. The material is the same thickness and all marks (tenon and mortise) were made from the same reference face. That's one reason I have the painters tape in addition to the more traditional face and edge marks. The only difference is I only have one gauge. It was a bit tedious, but I just marked all mortises and tenons closest to reference face, then came back and did all the others. That process actually took a bit believe it or not.

In the interest of learning something, what is the purpose of chamfering the tenons? Place for glue to go perhaps?

As always, your wisdom and time is well appreciated!


Great pix and progress, Mike. I was wondering last night where you were in the project. I know you know this, but align those boards for best planing... I wouldn't go nuts maximizing ray fleck from board to board. QSWO grain matches pretty easily in the end.

I've analyzed both white and red oak using mass spectroscopy. Oak (red and white) contains acetic and butyric acid. This is why it can smell like ketchup (not mustard) to feet, and anywhere in between. It's often a "I cant' decide if I hate or love it" smell. It's these acids that help it react to metal and water and other chemicals and makes it prone to (intentional or unintentional) chemical staining.

The acids tend to dissipate over time, and there are lovely, creamy lactones that are prevalent in white oak that give it a mossy, mouth watering aroma that is what a lot of people associate with aged, oak firewood.

Last, when it's burned - both during cutting and in a fire, more 'campfirey' compounds are generated. This is the aroma that pervades a commercial shop.

Hey Prashun, I wanted you to know that I tried the old drill and pare technique for the mortises. Couple things went awry, I discovered how important a fine thread auger bit is with hardwoods and that I don't have one. I ordered one from TFWW so I can give the method a proper chance. The other thing I noticed is paring the material left behind is hard to do in this stuff. I ended up just literally pounding this chisel through the mortises. It was bad. I would literally take a couple sacks with the mallet and it had already chipped. I must have sharpened this thing 15 times or so. That's with the recommended 30-35 degree secondary bevel. Mines closer to 35 if I had to guess. Using the same 1/4" chisel in the same stock leaves me with a chisel begging for more. Must just be the temper in this chisel.

Its funny you mention not going crazy aligning the fleck. Every time I head out the garage towards my car, I keep looking at the rays and take mental notes about how I'm gonna arrange it. I think the board in the middle is closer to rift sawn, as its rays are Lot less pronounced and the endgrain appears to be running at about 60 degrees.

Thanks for the info on why I get that smell from white oak haha! Too bad my sniffer is all messed up, don't know my mustard from my ketchup. Im actually in the same camp as you, I can't decide whether I like it or not. Part of me dislikes it, but part of me finds it pleasing. I hope I don't have to burn any, but if I do I'll cherish the chance to buy some more lumber ��

[Brian Holcombe]

Mike, chamfering the tops encourages the joint to start well. With softer woods you can create a compression fit, you can with oak as well but much much much less compression.

Oak splits pretty easily so I keep the compression to near nothing.

[Mike Cherry]

Mike, chamfering the tops encourages the joint to start well. With softer woods you can create a compression fit, you can with oak as well but much much much less compression.

Oak splits pretty easily so I keep the compression to near nothing.

Ahh I see, that's great advice. Will do that from here on out.

[ken hatch]

Mike,

The table is looking good. Brian is correct, WO does not compress much and it is easy to split. Don't ask how many WO pin boards I've had to replace :o. Stu at Tools From Japan sells a cheapo dual beam marking gauge for something like $16 USD, it is crude, no where near as nice as Brian's, but it works well and would make the marking out easier.

Once more....Good work,

ken

[Mike Cherry]

Mike,

The table is looking good. Brian is correct, WO does not compress much and it is easy to split. Don't ask how many WO pin boards I've had to replace :o. Stu at Tools From Japan sells a cheapo dual beam marking gauge for something like $16 USD, it is crude, no where near as nice as Brian's, but it works well and would make the marking out easier.

Once more....Good work,

ken
Thanks Ken, appreciate you taking a look. I got something unrelated I been meaning to ask you, gonna shoot you a pm here in a sec.
I think this might be the one Brian has? http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=356_599_609&products_id=2036

[Brian Holcombe]

I use a Kinshirou which you can't get anywhere unless you're willing to convince (with a large check) a collector to sell one....I also have one from Matsui Measure;

http://matui.shop-pro.jp/?pid=33081325

It truly gives up nothing to the Kinshirou, but the Kinshirou is something very special being hand made.

[Mike Allen1010]

Nice work Mike! Once you've chopped those big notices in Oak, everything else will be down hill!

I look forward to the rest of your build.

Cheers, Mike

[Mike Cherry]

Well, it has been a crazy couple months guys! I mentioned in an earlier post that I was gifted a thickness planer. Well I tried it....and sorta liked it hahahha. I decided to buy a 6" jointer and I had a coupon for 25% off a harbor freight item. I told myself if Home Depot would honor it, Id buy that Ridgid 4512 from them. I'll be damned if they didnt honor it after all. So aside from the guilt of murdering electrons occasionally, I am very much coming to terms with the new additions. I still very much enjoy hand tools and I think starting this craft with the hand tool only approach will, if nothing else, allow me to fall back on the "back to basics" method of doing things when need be. Clearly a 6" jointer aint gonna do everything I need for the rest of my days, so my planes should still get plenty of work. I also prefer smoothing as opposed to sanding.

I digress, The table/desk is near done aside from finish and a special surprise. Finish should be applied quite soon and I am editing a rather long video( need to do a time-lapse) that I hope to keep a secret from the wife until I present the desk at her retirement ceremony at Camp Pendleton late September. The qswo top should look fantastic after finish is applied. Please feel free to comment, critique, complain, etc.


http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0130.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0130.jpg.html)

The only chisel I had that would fit between the twin tenons for waste removal was a Japanese chisel that Brian Holcombe sold me a while back.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0133.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0133.jpg.html)

The twin tenons were not as difficult to pull of as I thought and Im glad I persevered through the process.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0129.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0129.jpg.html)

Very handy little shoulder plane but I always seem to prefer a chisel here. Everytime I think this tool needs a new home, I use it and decide to keep it.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0176.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0176.jpg.html)

I found out the hard way that pipe clamps (on the bottom of the glue-up) has a reaction with the glue and the tannins (sp?) in white oak. It left black spots wherever it had a reaction. They were easily cleaned up while flattening the top.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0178.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0178.jpg.html)

Anyone thats ever done this knows how much work it is haha. Good sharp blade makes it alot more fun to be sure! I also discovered that there are some characteristics I would like to add to my future bench. Wider and no tool tray! Experience is certainly the best teacher.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0179.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0179.jpg.html)

I made these wooden turnbuttons, I think theyre called, from walnut scrap to secure the top to the legs. I used a router to mortise the slots for the buttons.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0180.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0180.jpg.html)

This was a dry fit to get final measurements for the through mortise and tenon for the stretcher.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0198.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0198.jpg.html)

My daughter was kind enough to snap some photos of the mortise process.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0244.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0244.jpg.html)

Cleaning up the tenons was a quite lengthy process. Because of the length of said tenons, I had to saw them with a panel saw.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0246.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0246.jpg.html)

This is a portion of the mortise layout for the angled wedge. I quite enjoyed this process. There was a little victory dance inside of me when the wedges got fine tuned and fit!

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0268.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/White%20Oak%20Trestle%20Desk/IMG_0268.jpg.html)

Here she is assembled and right side up. She is currently sitting, assembled but upside down again, on my bench. I try to add a personal message on everything I build for loved ones. This is what I am doing at the moment. In the past I have written a message and then dated it in a hidden from plain view area. As I have recently taken up carving, I am adding a carving on the underside of the desk top before applying a finish. Stay tuned to see that soon. Thanks to the people on this board for their knowledge and for being willing to share that knowledge. Perhaps one day I can give back what I have taken!

[Reinis Kanders]

Looks nice. Next you know you will be using festool dominos instead of tenons:)

[Brian Holcombe]

What is a festool domino :D :p

Mike, looks great! Glad that the chisel is coming in handy as well, those Tataki's are a handy chisel to have if you do this sort of joinery all the time. I end up using a long mortise chisel in place of that sometimes.

[Mike Cherry]

Looks nice. Next you know you will be using festool dominos instead of tenons:)
Not if my wife has anything to say about it lol!

[James Pallas]

Nice work Mike. White oak or red is hard wood to work. It does give you nice clean lines. The problem with it is people seem to like it. My wife loves the stuff so I have worked a pile of it. When you get a chance to work some other wood, like walnut, it is very pleasurable. The basswood you are carving must be like cutting air after the oak. My guess is that your wife will love it and want more oak items. Keep your stones handy and saw files too.
Jim

[Mike Cherry]

Nice work Mike. White oak or red is hard wood to work. It does give you nice clean lines. The problem with it is people seem to like it. My wife loves the stuff so I have worked a pile of it. When you get a chance to work some other wood, like walnut, it is very pleasurable. The basswood you are carving must be like cutting air after the oak. My guess is that your wife will love it and want more oak items. Keep your stones handy and saw files too.
Jim
You couldnt be more right! The basswood just melts. I like the oak, but Im looking forward to making something out of this board of curly cherry I found hiding at the lumber yard! Score!

[John Kananis]

Substantial build - I'm enjoying it; thanks for posting.

[Mike Allen1010]

Great job Micheal- a classic design very well executed in a challenging, but beautiful wood! You should be very proud!

To me the combination of the white oak and the robust and simple design have a timeless elegance that will never go out of style. It goes without saying your wife will love it and I'm sure the desk will be a treasured heirloom in your family for many generations. Someday one of your grandkids is going to notice the inscriptions you made and say "I never realized Grandpa Mike is so cool" and your daughter will tell them "I was there when he built this in our garage with his own hands and a lot of sweat":)

I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to document your build- both commentary and pics are excellent , very informative and much appreciated. In particular I really enjoyed your description of the twin motice and tennons- one of my favorite joints.

You got lots of great advice from our fellow neanders that I'm sure will make your next project that much easier. There's nothing I can add in the way of build advice that would be of much value. Perhaps one thought to consider, that has served me well when doing M&T's; my Dad used to say he wanted his M&T's to fit so he could "push them together using his left hand while really listening to the Dodgers on the radio". FWIW, when sawing tennons, I've rarely been disappointed by aggressively sawing to the marking gauge line. However I've often have left tennons too fat by trying to "split the Line", which resulted in unnecessary, time consuming work to make the tennons fit.

Thanks again for sharing your work and I very much look forward to seeing more of it in the future!

Semper Fi,

Mike

[Jerry Olexa]

Love your project and your M/T joints...Patience rules there...Nice job..Thanks for posting!!!

[Christopher Charles]

Looks great Mike, thanks for posting some pictures and encouragement to try double tenons. Will look forward to seeing your carving efforts and the finished desk.

Best,
Chris

[Mike Cherry]

Great job Micheal- a classic design very well executed in a challenging, but beautiful wood! You should be very proud!

To me the combination of the white oak and the robust and simple design have a timeless elegance that will never go out of style. It goes without saying your wife will love it and I'm sure the desk will be a treasured heirloom in your family for many generations. Someday one of your grandkids is going to notice the inscriptions you made and say "I never realized Grandpa Mike is so cool" and your daughter will tell them "I was there when he built this in our garage with his own hands and a lot of sweat":)

I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to document your build- both commentary and pics are excellent , very informative and much appreciated. In particular I really enjoyed your description of the twin motice and tennons- one of my favorite joints.

You got lots of great advice from our fellow neanders that I'm sure will make your next project that much easier. There's nothing I can add in the way of build advice that would be of much value. Perhaps one thought to consider, that has served me well when doing M&T's; my Dad used to say he wanted his M&T's to fit so he could "push them together using his left hand while really listening to the Dodgers on the radio". FWIW, when sawing tennons, I've rarely been disappointed by aggressively sawing to the marking gauge line. However I've often have left tennons too fat by trying to "split the Line", which resulted in unnecessary, time consuming work to make the tennons fit.

Thanks again for sharing your work and I very much look forward to seeing more of it in the future!

Semper Fi,

Mike
Thanks for the kind words, Mike! You've been instrumental in my learning this craft and I thank you for opening your shop to me. We probably need to get together soon!

[Mike Cherry]

This is kind of a first for me and Im not sure how this video will turn out. Hopefully it looks ok.

https://youtu.be/RwgCNtiFmS4

This is the underside of the desk...in case I messed it up haha! Forgive my hairy arms, Im part sasquatch.

[Robert McNaull]

Awesome work Mike! Time lapse video is nice, we do these at work from time to time when we have a large assembly project or fast field harvesting. I like it.

Bob

[Mike Cherry]

Awesome work Mike! Time lapse video is nice, we do these at work from time to time when we have a large assembly project or fast field harvesting. I like it.

Bob
Well thank you sir, I am quite the amateur at making a video. Thanks for taking a look.

[Mike Cherry]

Here she is, ready to lie in her resting spot. I might haul it out to my wifes retirement ceremony to officially present her with it, time will tell. The finish is BLO/Poly/Mineral Spirits with paste wax for a nice satin finish. I had a hard time deciding between this and Tried and Trues oil/wax finish. I just felt like the Tried and True takes to long to finish whereas the BLO/Poly/MS dries fast as all get out. I cant seem to photograph the rays in the top very well. If I didnt mention it before, some of the boards were closer to rift sawn than quarter sawn. Im not certain, but I think that had a bit of an effect on how pronounced the rays are. As always comments and suggestions are most welcome.

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_0313.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_0313.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_0307.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_0307.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_0308.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_0308.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_0309.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_0309.jpg.html)

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg205/Mike42478/IMG_0310.jpg (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/Mike42478/media/IMG_0310.jpg.html)

[Prashun Patel]

Mike, I have been following this thread with enjoyment. Your skills are impressive to me. Nicely done.

It's substantial, and elegant and your joints are tight as I aspire mine to eventually be.

Pls don't take this constructive opinion as anything more than a nitpick, but is it too late to angle or soften the ends of the stretcher? My eye wants it to taper as the tusk does or perhaps not to be as long.

[James Pallas]

Very nice Mike. That table will be around for a very long time. I like your design. Very clean and straight forward. Can go with any kind of decor.
Jim

[Mike Cherry]

Mike, I have been following this thread with enjoyment. Your skills are impressive to me. Nicely done.

It's substantial, and elegant and your joints are tight as I aspire mine to eventually be.

Pls don't take this constructive opinion as anything more than a nitpick, but is it too late to angle or soften the ends of the stretcher? My eye wants it to taper as the tusk does or perhaps not to be as long.

I welcome your opinion wholeheartedly, Prashun! Are you referring to how far the through tenon extends past the wedge? If so, I totally agree. That was one of the design elements that I sorta disliked from the book that Mr. Mike Allen let me borrow. I honestly just wanted to try this particular type joint as I've never done it before and I wanted it to be knockdown. Are you suggesting that maybe it have the same curve as the wedge? How about shortening and chamfering the end of the tenon for a softer appearance?

Im grateful for your opinions and you are far too kind in reference to my skill level. Perhaps it's true, we are our own worst critic. Thanks for following!

[Mike Cherry]

Very nice Mike. That table will be around for a very long time. I like your design. Very clean and straight forward. Can go with any kind of decor.
Jim
Thanks Jim, I appreciate your input. Of course, I can't take credit for the design but I agree it is very clean which is what the wife asked for.

Your comments made made me wonder something: While building the desk, I had multiple neighbors and family members comment about how the desk looked too short in reference to its height. I also felt it looked rather short in length. The funny thing is, when I sat it in position in the house it looked monstrous. It's the classic looks smaller in the store deal. The question is: Do you guys ever experience this while building a project? I mean I literally felt a little anxiety about the height because of the comments several folks made about the height seemingly being too short. When I rolled a chair up to it, it was perfect.

[James Pallas]

This is opinion of course. People are use to seeing aprons on tables or drawers on desks. The tressel design with it's open space looks different. If it is good with chair height it's good.
Jim

[Prashun Patel]

I am suggesting either matching the stretcher ends to the curve of the wedge, or even just straight tapering it and or chamfering it. Don't go by me. If I'm the only one suggesting this, then disregard.

And now that we're on the subject... just in the spirit of debate... I wonder if the center of the stretcher might have been made less monolithic by hollowing out the center. Again, this is not intended to rain on the parade. It's only meant to foster discussion. In the end, (as if anyone's opinion besides yours and your recipient's matter) I still think it's great as is.

[Pat Barry]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate your input. Of course, I can't take credit for the design but I agree it is very clean which is what the wife asked for.

Your comments made made me wonder something: While building the desk, I had multiple neighbors and family members comment about how the desk looked too short in reference to its height. I also felt it looked rather short in length. The funny thing is, when I sat it in position in the house it looked monstrous. It's the classic looks smaller in the store deal. The question is: Do you guys ever experience this while building a project? I mean I literally felt a little anxiety about the height because of the comments several folks made about the height seemingly being too short. When I rolled a chair up to it, it was perfect.
Mike, what are the dimensions? I assumed it would be normal dining table height ~ 30 inches. As far as length and width go, its difficult to perceive from the photo's alone

[Pat Barry]

I am suggesting either matching the stretcher ends to the curve of the wedge, or even just straight tapering it and or chamfering it. Don't go by me. If I'm the only one suggesting this, then disregard.

And now that we're on the subject... just in the spirit of debate... I wonder if the center of the stretcher might have been made less monolithic by hollowing out the center. Again, this is not intended to rain on the parade. It's only meant to foster discussion. In the end, (as if anyone's opinion besides yours and your recipient's matter) I still think it's great as is.
First off -- very nice work Mike. I do like this table.

Prashun, Just a different point of view, for me, in that this table looks very nicely proportioned, angular and rectangular in basic form. Given that, I think its important that different elements play with each other and complement each other for a well put together design. I wouldn't therefore want to see curved / circular / elliptical features added to this design. I feel those would be clashing with the basic angularity of the design. Because of this the rounded wedge feature is a bit odd, but, they are small and unobtrusive and therefore not an issue. I think borrowing the existing angular features (such as on the feet / legs) an d re-using them for the wedge would be more appropriate, but thats just me.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks Jim, I appreciate your input. Of course, I can't take credit for the design but I agree it is very clean which is what the wife asked for.

Your comments made made me wonder something: While building the desk, I had multiple neighbors and family members comment about how the desk looked too short in reference to its height. I also felt it looked rather short in length. The funny thing is, when I sat it in position in the house it looked monstrous. It's the classic looks smaller in the store deal. The question is: Do you guys ever experience this while building a project? I mean I literally felt a little anxiety about the height because of the comments several folks made about the height seemingly being too short. When I rolled a chair up to it, it was perfect.

I build dining tables to 28.5", I actually prefer 27.5" but most do not share this preference. Seating height is typically 18.5" and a 10" differential is comfortable for a wide range of people.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Don't go by me. If I'm the only one suggesting this, then disregard.


In the spirit of discussion, I would say it is not just you Prashun. I had a similar reaction to the stretcher. I would probably try shortening the ends of the stretcher. In addition to the length, the design of the wedges strikes me as a little bit curvy on a table that has those clean simple lines. For some reason I really like the contrast between Oak and Black Walnut, so I would probably try making simpler wedges, out of a scrap of walnut.

To make sure the comment is in perspective though, if I gave that desk to my wife just as it sits, I am sure she would be very pleased. I would certainly not start hacking it up just because some yokel on the internet thinks the design might be marginally improved.

[Mike Cherry]

Thanks for all the comments guys. The desk sits at 29.5" tall. I'm not ready to cut into it at this point, but I'm always ready to learn and hear from more others. I've only got one lifetime and I'm not sure I'll ever have an excuse to build such a table again. I sure hope I do. Given the opportunity, I think I would have rather liked to do wedged tenons. I also would have made the thing out of Cherry or Walnut haha!

[Brian Holcombe]

Mike,

You may want to look into the cogged joint. That is a knock-down joint that has a nice appeal and it fairly simple to make....no long thin mortises in the post. I made the dovetail variety for my trestle coffee table, and better than the dovetail version is just a plain cog.

[Mike Cherry]

Thinks Brian, I'll have a look and maybe find a good excuse to use it soon.

[Kees Heiden]

Another vote to shorten the ends of the stretcher and give them a good chamfer. You might want to mask them first with some black paper or something to see what length looks best before you cut them too short.

Other then that, great job! Very nice top, I really like it.