tear outs

[Rich Stewart]

How do y'all get your bowls so smooth. I always seem to get end grain tear out on the inside and outside of my bowls. Too deep to sand out. What am I doing wrong?

[Keith Burns]

Two thoughts to which some will probably argue. 1. Take lighter cuts. 1a. Sharp tools. 2. Speed up the lathe. I was having the same problem on some maple, increased the speed and virtually eliminated the problem.

[Mark Cothren]

Also depends some on the wood, in my limited experience... some wood I get smooth cuts (even with my flawed technique ;) ) and some wood it doesn't matter how sharp my tool or what presentation I use I get some tearout... but nothing the sandpaper won't seem to fix...:D

[Carole Valentine]

What Keith said, plus learn to shear scrape. The most important thing of all is very (and I mean VERY) sharp tools. I think trying to get good results without having sharp tools leads to more beginners quiting the "sport" than any other single factor.

[Don Baer]

Thanks Keith and Carol. I was about to post the same question. I am having tearout problem on a piece of Tiger maple that I started turning yesterday. I did find that the scraper worked better then the gouge but didn't elimate tearout completely. I'll make sure that my gouges are sharp and try a higher speed. I have it at 750 RPM's now. The next speed I have available is around 1150 RPM. Do you think this will be OK?

[Keith Burns]

DON: Good question about the speed that I can't answer. I think I ended up at about 1600 rpm or so. The main thing is don't go faster than what is recommended for the size of the piece and what you feel safe with.

[Jim Becker]

All of the above and using the right tool so that the cutting edge is presented to the wood such that it cuts easily and smoothly. Some woods may require you use a little bees wax or a turps/sanding sealer mixture to "tame" the two points of endgrain on a faceplate oriented project. Nature of the beast. Bottom line: sharp tools and good technique.

[Don Baer]

Jim
I'm getting real nice shaving off of the piece so I guess the tool and technique are ok. The tearing out on the end grain. I was thinking of sealing the end grain with some CA.

[Jack Savona]

I'd be leary of using CA for this. First, lots of CA will be needed. Next, it could conceiveably cause a blotchy look on the finished piece.

I'd try a) sanding sealer; b) liquid or paste wax; c) some other finishing product that will dry quickly through friction. I'd probably use the material over the whole piece to keep a uniform finish.

[Jim Becker]

Jack's right...I would not recommend CA for this as it will "blotch" on many woods and affect the look of the piece. Bob Rosand uses a 50/50 mixture of turpentine and Minwax sanding sealer to deal with these issues. I mentioned in my previous post that some folks use bees wax...usually thinned with mineral spirits...for the same thing. Once you do this, you can do your final cut using shear scraping techniques (with a freshly prepared scraper) or a fine finishing cut with a side-grind gouge, such as the Ellsworth. On the exterior, I prefer a shearing cut using the Ellsworth gouge, but you can also use a shear scraper for the same purpose. ("Scraping" is really cutting with a very, very fine cutting edge that is caused by the burnishing of the tool edge, either by grinding technique or through use of a harder steel to form the edge appropriately)

[Carole Valentine]

Jim,
About the beeswax/turp method...does this affect the ability of the wood to take any other finish? I have never used it but I would think it would.

[Jim Becker]

About the beeswax/turp method...does this affect the ability of the wood to take any other finish? I have never used it but I would think it would.

Any time you use any preparation on the piece it potentially can affect the finish choice and application you choose later.

A little residual bees wax usually can be removed with mineral spirits, but if you insist on using a finish that is polyurethane based you could still have trouble if you don't get it all off. (Poly is a waste on a turning, IMHO, both because you don't need the properties it gives and because many varnishes made with poly don't have the clarity that alkyd [P&L #38 or SW fast dry) or phenolic [Waterlox] varnishes have) Of course, you can use a coat of de-waxed shellac as a sealer to avoid any issues with wax on the piece. BTW, if you buff your pieces, you'll also get a much nicer finish with a non-poly varnish or varnish/oil...the very property that poly affords--abrasion resistance--goes against what you are doing when you buff! Oh, and remember, you can always do a wax finish on a turning...they can look wonderful.

The sanding sealer/turps mixture is less of a problem but it can affect the color of a piece. That said, you usually are cutting most of it off and sanding the rest to oblivion as you prepare to finish. (I don't really like this method much, largely because I hate the smell of turps... ;) )

The absolute best way to deal with tearout is to try and avoid it by using cutting techniques that involve shearing angles so you slice away material. Even the punkiest wood will respond well to this treatment and these technques, once learned, will follow you always. Suffice to say, this was one of the key points I learned when I took David Ellsworth's three-day course back in 2001...you can almost get away without sanding if you master the shear cutting techniques. They offer, in effect, the save qualities that Neander woodworkers swear by hand planes for.