PDA

View Full Version : Running a Rotary on the Y axis - ULS Laser



Bill George
05-03-2016, 12:49 PM
I have a rotary attachment, smaller than the real ULS one and it runs but no engraving because I don't have the correct hook up to the 9 pin connector. The stepper motor hook up was easy, and the two pins to make the system recognize the rotary I have figured out but I need the rest. Seems no one here owns an older ULS and rotary so on to plan B.

The rotary motor holds position, and runs and does the start up boot connected to that 9 pin connector. I am wondering about just disconnecting the Y motor and hooking this rotary up to it what changes do I need to make to the job engrave right? I know this is what some machines do as a matter of fact, just unplug the Y and plug the rotary into the same plug. Since the ULS uses steppers, it should be easy to just put the X carriage wherever and go.

Suggestions? Frankly if I had a ton of rotary jobs, I would pay the $1500 for a new one in a heartbeat.

Lee DeRaud
05-03-2016, 1:32 PM
Well, if it was me, I'd shoot an email to Mike Mackenzie (my local ULS distributor) and see if he has the pinout listing handy. (He is/was a member here, but I don't know if he has PM notifications turned on.)
Try info@cemlasers.com

Bill George
05-03-2016, 2:11 PM
Well, if it was me, I'd shoot an email to Mike Mackenzie (my local ULS distributor) and see if he has the pinout listing handy. (He is/was a member here, but I don't know if he has PM notifications turned on.)
Try info@cemlasers.com

Thanks Lee but ULS has the information pretty well locked up. I have Searched for weeks and there is nothing or no info on the wiring of any rotary attachment, except the Chinese machines. I doubt if a ULS distributor would give that information out as he would be fired.

Brian Lamb
05-03-2016, 3:03 PM
I have a ULS laser, but no rotary, so am interested myself. It would be easy to create the attachment. I have the guy I purchased my laser from, he worked for ULS back in the early days and did a lot of the software/hardware design, so I'll check with him and see if he has the pin outs.

Beyond that in regards to your questions, you have to specify the diameter of the part when activating the rotary, so that ties into the stepper drive to give you the Y axis amount converted to rotary motion. You would most likely need to know the specific gearing that ULS used, or worst case, engrave a 1" square and then measure your result. If it was .750 for example in the rotary direction, you's have to lie about the diameter to get a square box. Once you figured out the percentage, it would apply for all diameters.

Gary Hair
05-03-2016, 3:17 PM
I doubt if a ULS distributor would give that information out as he would be fired.

Not sure why you would think that. I was given the Trotec pinouts for their exhaust connector with no problem at all. Sure, it means that you aren't buying their rotary but it makes good sense to provide your customers with info about their machine - not providing it certainly won't force you to buy their rotary...

Bill George
05-03-2016, 3:40 PM
All I need is the Pin outs for the wires other than the Stepper motor, like I said the motor was the easy part. I do have a wiring diagram of sorts for a older machine but no detail of the connector. I know the stepper I have works because connected the motor is in the "holding mode" and the motor just gets warm. On start up it boots and rotates the attachment I have just fine. I also have the OEM motor spec's and what I have is very close. I just need those 3 pins identified.

Lee DeRaud
05-03-2016, 4:46 PM
Thanks Lee but ULS has the information pretty well locked up. I have Searched for weeks and there is nothing or no info on the wiring of any rotary attachment, except the Chinese machines. I doubt if a ULS distributor would give that information out as he would be fired.Not really. ULS actually provides a bunch of info to its customers, they just don't have it posted on the website. It seems to all be in separate 2-5 page PDFs, like somebody started to write a tech manual and got distracted. Don't confuse "not published" with "proprietary".

Worst case, he won't have that particular file on hand, doesn't hurt to ask.

Lee DeRaud
05-03-2016, 4:56 PM
All I need is the Pin outs for the wires other than the Stepper motor, like I said the motor was the easy part. I do have a wiring diagram of sorts for a older machine but no detail of the connector. I know the stepper I have works because connected the motor is in the "holding mode" and the motor just gets warm. On start up it boots and rotates the attachment I have just fine. I also have the OEM motor spec's and what I have is very close. I just need those 3 pins identified.The troubleshooting info in the service manual I have is pretty limited for the rotary...you've already done most of it.

Will it let you select 'Rotary' in the 'Fixture Type' selection?
And if you go to the focus tab, is the red dot pointer close to the centerline of the fixture?

Bill George
05-03-2016, 5:31 PM
When I have the one pin jumped to ground pin #4 (red wire) and its not a direct connection I have a 100 ohm 1/8 watt resistor in series, just in case. That pin causes the Y axis to move to the center line of the factory rotary and moves to the start position of the graphic in Corel. The Rotary is selected in the Print driver and the calculation is done on the diameter in mm of the work piece. All is fine, the X starts the process BUT the laser beam does not come on nor does the rotary stepper operate. So I am missing something. Very cautious about what I jumper to what and its either a 1000 ohm or 100 ohm resistor in series.
I am very aware the main board is nearly $2000 and that is why I was going to go with the Y motor connection and forget the connector and the jumpers. Moving the carriage by hand (disconnected) in the Y axis because its a stepper not a servo the machine will never know.

Brian Lamb
05-03-2016, 6:22 PM
One would suspect some of the wiring is to close/open a circuit so that when the Rotary axis is plugged in the Y axis is disabled. I would call ULS and talk to Darryl, he was helpful when I talked to him the other day.

Brian Lamb
08-09-2016, 7:30 PM
Kind of bringing back this post... I'm in process on making a rotary axis for my Universal Laser and have found out some information that might be of help to others. First, the ratio on the stepper is 6:1, the pulleys are 15 tooth on the motor and 90 tooth on the rotary spindle. Second, you can set the default amount that the Y axis moves down to center over the rotary. Third, I got the cable pin outs. I will try to post the pdf file they sent me about the cable... well that didn't work, so I converted to jpg.

342154

George Hall
01-02-2017, 3:40 PM
Kind of bringing back this post... I'm in process on making a rotary axis for my Universal Laser and have found out some information that might be of help to others. First, the ratio on the stepper is 6:1, the pulleys are 15 tooth on the motor and 90 tooth on the rotary spindle. Second, you can set the default amount that the Y axis moves down to center over the rotary. Third, I got the cable pin outs. I will try to post the pdf file they sent me about the cable... well that didn't work, so I converted to jpg.

342154

Thanks for the details on the attachment. I have owned a ULS machine for going on 20 years and never wanted to fork out the money for their rotary attachment for the very few times I have engraved something that needed such an attachment. I too was researching this and found it near impossible to get the info needed so now that this is available I will be building myself an attachment.

Any updates on the rotary attachment you built?

Thanks
Mike

Brian Lamb
01-02-2017, 4:20 PM
Hi George/Mike?

I did complete a test version of a rotary attachment. It was kind of my proof of concept situation. I intend to make and possibly market some rotary units for the ULS machines.

I used a 5C collet indexer (from metalworking industry, I have a CNC mill and had this laying around), milled out a motor mount bracket, got my hands of a couple sprockets and belt, and found the right stepper, added in a microswitch for homing and it all came together fairly well. I made a video of the first test we did with it, you can see it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K4iDwR2W-c

Please realize that I only have a 2" lens and due to the diameter of the steel disc on the indexer, and the small (7/8") diameter of my wood dowel, I couldn't get focused without crashing the lens into the disc, so it's about 3/4" out of focus. It would work fine on something larger in diameter like a Yeti or something, but not so good on smaller stuff unless I get a 3" or 4" lens.

George Hall
01-02-2017, 4:27 PM
I have a XL12000 laser so i need to make sure the specs you listed are going to work for it. There are very little if any at all parts or drivers which are able to interchange between all the other ULS machines and the XL machines. It has been the biggest pain in my butt ever.

Brian Lamb
01-02-2017, 4:44 PM
Not sure on that machine, I managed to get inside and photo the label on my Y axis stepper then did some searching on line and found it was a 2 amp, .9 (400 steps per revolution) motor. The Y axis stepper driver just runs the rotary motor, so if you use the same style motor as you have, it shouldn't be an issue.

After figuring out which connections to use with the limit switch, and setting the correct graphic window, 3.1416 x the diameter of your part, enable the rotary axis in the ULS software and it was engraving perfect. I still need to rig up a tailstock of get a small chuck, made a large cone already.... but still need to finish some things up. Biggest issue is my indexer is cast iron and too heavy to want to lift in and out on a regular basis, a lighter aluminum model is in the design/build stages.

Bill George
01-02-2017, 4:46 PM
I gave up on the one I was building I decided paying $2000 plus for a motherboard if I got the wiring wrong was not worth it.
But for my new Ray Fine fiber laser I have nearly completed my large multipurpose rotary. Still waiting on a eBay purchase.

Ian Stewart-Koster
01-02-2017, 9:35 PM
Not sure if I can help. but our M300 does have the original rotary attachment, and it works fine.
I'm impressed with the diagnostics you've done.
When you plug the rotary in, and locate it over the locating slots in the right top of the bed, the gantry moves down to line-up with the centre of the rotary axis, then it moves along the X a bit to just above the RH end.

The hard part is remembering to reset the driver to uncheck the rotary after you've finished.
I've wrecked a couple of items, by setting the new diameter in the check-rotary-installed box, then backing out, then going to print, and it somehow reset itself to the diameter of the previous rotary job.
Then when you go to laser something flat, the driver still has 'rotary' checked.
It seems to take a few resets to trick into realising you are for-real and DO want it to forget the old setting.

Brian Lamb
01-02-2017, 10:17 PM
I have an older machine, so the ULS software may be slightly different.... but on mine, you check the box for having the rotary installed and then put the diameter into the window and it automatically calculates the page height in Y (just takes the diameter x pi (3.1416 roughly) to get the circumference of the part). That number you have to plug into Corel as your page height in Y manually. If you don't, your graphic will not run as it should, it will get stretched or compressed.

The machine does then automatically send the Y axis to centerline of the attachment (which can be changed if needed, my attachment is about 3/8" off of the factory version). Then, to set up your graphic, you have to turn on your laser pointer and find the min and max X value you want and place your graphic in the Coreldraw window accordingly.

If your job changes, you pretty much have to start all over again with the page height calcs and the location in X....

Ian Stewart-Koster
01-03-2017, 5:59 PM
That's exactly how we do it, Brian - and the same cautions and start-overs.
Do you mind if I ask how or where in the software can you alter the Y offset, for starting out - like where you said yours is 3/8" wrong from the factory setting?

Brian Lamb
01-03-2017, 7:30 PM
That's exactly how we do it, Brian - and the same cautions and start-overs.
Do you mind if I ask how or where in the software can you alter the Y offset, for starting out - like where you said yours is 3/8" wrong from the factory setting?

This is a file I got from ULS that describes how to set the default position for the Y on the rotary axis. Darn... file size is too big to attach, I'll paste the text in for that section, if you want the whole file, email me at blamb11 at cox dot net and I can send it to you direct.

Rotary Setup
MAKE SURE THE ROTARY CABLE IS UNPLUGGED!
DO NOT PLUG IN OR UNPLUG THE ROTARY CABLE WHEN THE MACHINE IS
POWERED ON!
1) If using Air Assist remove the cone.
2) Install rotary bracket, do not tighten.
3) Power system up.
4) Using the touch pad, go to Preferences / Configuration / Set Rotary Axis. This number should
be 2.625 Y (center of rotary):
ROT 2.625
POS 2.625
CANCEL
YES SAVE Y AXIS
If the ROT does NOT equal 2.625, adjust it by pressing the XY button and moving the
appropriate front/back arrow button until the position displayed under POS equals 2.625. When
it does, scroll to YES SAVE Y AXIS and press SELECT. This will take you to this screen:
SET FOCUS POSITION
SET ROTARY AXIS
TICKLE
PORTS
Scroll to SET ROTARY AXIS and press SELECT. ROT should be equal to 2.625 now.
5) On the display, press the button labeled Z, using the arrow keys located next to the SELECT /
ESCAPE keys lower the table.
6) Power system down.
7) Install rotary and plug in rotary connector.
8) Push rotary against the X axis ruler, tighten rotary bracket.
9) Power System up.

Ian Stewart-Koster
01-04-2017, 8:59 AM
Thanks VERY much!
Is that the whole file - it reads as if it is?

Brian Lamb
01-04-2017, 9:34 AM
Not quite the whole file, it goes on to describe how to use the software to calculate the drawing size for Corel and how to pick your X range and focus for Z. I think the portion I copied is the pertinent portion for setting a new Y location. I haven't actually tried it as I just cheated and slipped a 3/8" spacer between the ruler and my rotary, which got me close enough for testing purposes.

If and when I build my "final" version, I will build it the same width as the ULS version so that it's a direct swap into the machine to use.

Ben Cartwright
01-05-2017, 12:34 PM
Brian,
I'm interested in your project on this. I have a ULS25E that I have a cup project I'm currently working on. I made a sort of traveling rotary for this one job, but it would be nice to have an actual rotary for it. This works and will get me by for now.
350836350837

Brian Lamb
01-05-2017, 2:10 PM
Brian,
I'm interested in your project on this. I have a ULS25E that I have a cup project I'm currently working on. I made a sort of traveling rotary for this one job, but it would be nice to have an actual rotary for it. This works and will get me by for now.
350836350837

Friction of the rubber underneath rolls the part? I bet that is a bit tricky to get it just right in height.

Ben Cartwright
01-12-2017, 10:06 AM
Yes, they are roller bearings mounted in the acrylic arms that run on the rubber and the cup rests on the top of them. I made the parts that connect to the laser with an adjustable slot, set the height and tighten it down, it has been really effective and just finished up 150 cups, the only thing is that when it rapids down the mass of the tumblers spins the cups slightly so you cannot re register once it has been ran. Other than that it works great for a simple trick.