Voigt Try Plane

[ken hatch]

Waiting for me on my doorstep. You really have to try one to know how well they work.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/voigtTryPlaneA160502_zpszzvjykhl.jpg

One more of the first shavings, this time a glamor shot. The plane is straight out of the box. All I did was put the iron in and sight down the sole to check projection. It blows me away.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/voigtTryPlaneB160502_zps7xleolv0.jpg

ken

[Prashun Patel]

That is a pretty plane Ken. I just got a similar one from David weaver and can appreciate how this must feel. Have fun!!!!

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice! Welcome aboard, I love being a member of the spoiled rotten try plane owners group :D

[george wilson]

Very neat work on that plane!! I like the large 18th. C. style bevels. But,your iron is a late 19th. C. style. I'd grind the top into a round shape,and make the top of the wedge match if you want a real 100% 18th. C. plane. That can be done even if you don't make the irons. My LEAST FAVORITE edge treatments are those barely rounded corners as seen on late 19th. C. work,usually on American made planes. In fact,I don't like those AT ALL! They reek of having no determination. I can't think of the right words. They just look so non committal.

My sculpture teacher would have said that if you're going to make bevels,MAKE THEM! Don't be indecisive about them. The general population of craftsmen in the 18th. C. just knew more about the arts than the later ones. Knowledge of real art just dribbled away into those horrid ginger bread Victorian houses,where they tossed in every kind of decoration they could dredge up. Unrelated stuff jumbled together sez me.

[John Sanford]

Knowledge of real art just dribbled away into those horrid ginger bread Victorian houses,where they tossed in every kind of decoration they could dredge up. Unrelated stuff jumbled together sez me.

The architectural pinnacle (https://www.google.com/search?q=lds+temples+in+utah&espv=2&biw=1431&bih=813&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjuv-mCr8PMAhVU1mMKHf3hAcwQ_AUIBygC)of "unrelated stuff jumbled together"... not surprisingly, with roots in and the most robust examples from the Victorian Era.

Regarding the plane, it seems to me that some sculpting of the forward portion might serve one well, both to lighten the plane a bit, but also to give a more natural handhold. "Some". However, not having used a wooden try plane, or any wooden plane (other than an abominable SlickPlane), I recognize that the gap between "seems" and practical can be pretty big.

[Steve Voigt]

.

Regarding the plane, it seems to me that some sculpting of the forward portion might serve one well, both to lighten the plane a bit, but also to give a more natural handhold. "Some". However, not having used a wooden try plane, or any wooden plane (other than an abominable SlickPlane), I recognize that the gap between "seems" and practical can be pretty big.

I've never played a clarinet, or even held one, though I do have plenty of musical experience. But after reading your post, I feel totally qualified to tell clarinet makers how they can improve upon the traditional design that has worked for almost two centuries. I'm going to go find a clarinet makers' forum and type in lots of great suggestions, right now! I bet those guys will really appreciate my brilliant ideas! Thanks!

[ken hatch]

I've never played a clarinet, or even held one, though I do have plenty of musical experience. But after reading your post, I feel totally qualified to tell clarinet makers how they can improve upon the traditional design that has worked for almost two centuries. I'm going to go find a clarinet makers' forum and type in lots of great suggestions, right now! I bet those guys will really appreciate my brilliant ideas! Thanks!

I scrubbed a couple of replies before you beat me to it :).

ken

[Prashun Patel]

John,
I can see how you might think that. I am a new try plane user so I'll be careful not to talk out of school, but I had a similar concern about the ergonomics.

My instinct was to put my thumb on the opposite side of the plane and have my fingers grabbing the near side. In that case, the grip felt wide. But on the counsel of a couple experienced users, I was told, 'just lay your hand across naturally". From pictures (I believe even Steve showed me some) I saw putting my fingers over the top created a very comfortable grip. Unlike the first way, this way does not make me want to squeeze the sides of the plane. I suspect it's because fingers and thumb on the same side mean you kind of have to rely on the friction of vertical, even pressure to make it work.

In fact, I now really like the grip.

Anyway, I find the plane requires quite little effort to push - and the force seems to come from the rear handle. The left hand is almost just along for the ride, and trying not to screw things up. I'll revise this post in a few years when I really learn how to use this thing properly. ;)

[ken hatch]

John,

What Prashun said.

I've made and used Krenov style planes, both the "organic" looking ones and just a plain block of wood ones. In day to day use the plain block of wood plane fits better in the hand than the shaped plane.

Here is a photo of some of my shop made planes, ones I use often. That said, the planes from Steve are an order of magnitude better to use. The guys back in the 18th and 19th C. knew what they were doing.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/4Planes_zps35292698.jpg

If you have not used a woodie, seek out one or make one to try. Making one is a nice little afternoon project and very easy to do (Krenov style, classic style not so much :p ) at not much cost. Either way you may find the feel of a wood stock plane on wood to be one of woodworking's great pleasures.

[Gene Davis]

Sweet plane! I bought an old one that size on eBay, 24" long with a 2-3/8 double iron. Used it a couple days ago to true one face of the cherry boards I bought for a project, before running them through the (I know it's scandalous) power planer.

Great heft, great feel. I really enjoyed David Warner's videos showing the making of one.

What is the little nub sticking out one side?

[Jim Koepke]

I bet those guys will really appreciate my brilliant ideas! Thanks!

LOL!

Maybe we should plane a thousand board feet before we come up with ideas on improving what has been working for centuries.

Another thought is how much extra will someone pay for a 'hood ornament' on a plane?

jtk

[ken hatch]

Sweet plane! I bought an old one that size on eBay, 24" long with a 2-3/8 double iron. Used it a couple days ago to true one face of the cherry boards I bought for a project, before running them through the (I know it's scandalous) power planer.

Great heft, great feel. I really enjoyed David Warner's videos showing the making of one.

What is the little nub sticking out one side?

Gene,

As I posted it was fresh out of the box and still had some static cling, it's just a shaving. From the color of it I expect it was one of the shavings the plane was packed with. Which BTW, I think is a nice touch.

Congrats on finding a nice one in the wild.

ken

[ken hatch]

LOL!

Maybe we should plane a thousand board feet before we come up with ideas on improving what has been working for centuries.

Another thought is how much extra will someone pay for a 'hood ornament' on a plane?

jtk

Jim,

Some of my German woodies come with a "hood ornament", hummm wonder if I'm paying extra for it.

ken

[Jim Koepke]

Jim,

Some of my German woodies come with a "hood ornament", hummm wonder if I'm paying extra for it.

ken

Is that an ornamentation or is it a handle?

Weren't some of those made so the plane could be used easier in a pull mode?

jtk

[Warren Mickley]

I've never played a clarinet, or even held one, though I do have plenty of musical experience. But after reading your post, I feel totally qualified to tell clarinet makers how they can improve upon the traditional design that has worked for almost two centuries. I'm going to go find a clarinet makers' forum and type in lots of great suggestions, right now! I bet those guys will really appreciate my brilliant ideas! Thanks!

Hans Moennig taught me how to use hide glue in 1966. A few years earlier he had redesigned the barrel of the clarinet for better sound and pitch. Moennig barrels are still sold today, and yes, they are discussed on clarinet forums.

[Brian Holcombe]

The ergonomics of 18th century Try planes are very good. I've used David's version for quite a number of board feet and it's very easy on my wrists to plane with it for hours.

[ken hatch]

The ergonomics of 18th century Try planes are very good. I've used David's version for quite a number of board feet and it's very easy on my wrists to plane with it for hours.

It is amazing what several centuries of development will do. :D

It doesn't tale long for either the LN or Stanley #8 to kick my butt. While I haven't put Steve's to the test yet I expect it will be as nice to work with or better than my other wood Try planes.

BTW, I went with a 45 degree bed instead of 47 degrees. I'm betting those two silly little degrees will make a difference.

ken

[Kevin Hampshire]

Nice looking plane Ken. Steve was at a LN event last year and all his planes caught my eye. Problem was, I had already planned a major LV purchase and was starting to push my budget limits.

That and the wife was choosing some LN bronze bling. Unfortunately, that LN is staying in the box and I have to wash my hands before she'll even let me look at it.

[Patrick Chase]

John,

What Prashun said.

I've made and used Krenov style planes, both the "organic" looking ones and just a plain block of wood ones. In day to day use the plain block of wood plane fits better in the hand than the shaped plane.

Here is a photo of some of my shop made planes, ones I use often. That said, the planes from Steve are an order of magnitude better to use. The guys back in the 18th and 19th C. knew what they were doing.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/4Planes_zps35292698.jpg

If you have not used a woodie, seek out one or make one to try. Making one is a nice little afternoon project and very easy to do (Krenov style, classic style not so much :p ) at not much cost. Either way you may find the feel of a wood stock plane on wood to be one of woodworking's great pleasures.

Those are some very nice planes (both yours and the Voight).

I have a (probably stupid) question about yours: It looks like you've positioned the mouths at about the midpoint of each plane. Is that right? If so, how would you compare the performance/feel to the 1/3-back (or less) position that's more common in metal planes?

[Stewie Simpson]

Those are some very nice planes (both yours and the Voight).

I have a (probably stupid) question about yours: It looks like you've positioned the mouths at about the midpoint of each plane. Is that right? If so, how would you compare the performance/feel to the 1/3-back (or less) position that's more common in metal planes?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/kFLt0duNrgc/hqdefault.jpg (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjP3MrY2cTMAhUBvpQKHfdFBS4QjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkF Lt0duNrgc&psig=AFQjCNEb_EmCUAmYlFfUmouOlfEiaOVdog&ust=1462598272731277)

[Mike Cherry]

Completely unrelated, but now that I know Ken has a marking gauge dilemma....I see marking gauges everywhere in his photos! Too funny.

[ken hatch]

Those are some very nice planes (both yours and the Voight).

I have a (probably stupid) question about yours: It looks like you've positioned the mouths at about the midpoint of each plane. Is that right? If so, how would you compare the performance/feel to the 1/3-back (or less) position that's more common in metal planes?

Patrick,

Good eye. Truth is I hadn't thought much about it. I make the planes somewhat longer than intended final length and once finished I cut them down till they are comfortable in hand while working both pull and push. Looking at some of my stored blanks the tail is slightly longer than the nose but I would expect if I were to finish them they would end up much like these.

Of course your question demanded I do some test shaving (any excuse to put plane on wood) using my shop made woodies vs. more tradition woodies vs. a metal smoother. On the push stroke there is not enough difference between the woodies to tell them apart, much the same with the metal plane other than it is metal and has a tote and knob. Of the three on the pull stroke mine works better but not by much vs. a traditional coffin smoother vs. the metal I would say working one on the pull stroke is a learned skill. I do it when needed but the little shop made plane is easier.

ken

[ken hatch]

Stewie,

Your photo said it much better than my words. All I can say is wow, beautiful shavings.

ken

[Chris Hachet]

Waiting for me on my doorstep. You really have to try one to know how well they work.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/voigtTryPlaneA160502_zpszzvjykhl.jpg

One more of the first shavings, this time a glamor shot. The plane is straight out of the box. All I did was put the iron in and sight down the sole to check projection. It blows me away.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/voigtTryPlaneB160502_zps7xleolv0.jpg

ken


I got to use one at the Lie Nielson tool event in Kentucky, they work very well.

[Brian Holcombe]

Nice looking plane Ken. Steve was at a LN event last year and all his planes caught my eye. Problem was, I had already planned a major LV purchase and was starting to push my budget limits.

That and the wife was choosing some LN bronze bling. Unfortunately, that LN is staying in the box and I have to wash my hands before she'll even let me look at it.

Kevin, if I had to give away all of my planes and keep one, it would be my wooden try plane.

[Brian Holcombe]

It is amazing what several centuries of development will do. :D

It doesn't tale long for either the LN or Stanley #8 to kick my butt. While I haven't put Steve's to the test yet I expect it will be as nice to work with or better than my other wood Try planes.

BTW, I went with a 45 degree bed instead of 47 degrees. I'm betting those two silly little degrees will make a difference.

ken

Hah, indeed. My 7 plane has been relegated to 4/4 edge jointing and shooting. But it may not be long for shooting as I hope to replace it's function in that regard with a nagadai kanna.

[Kevin Hampshire]

Brian, I have a large Civil War era try plane that I've never put into use. It's huge, heavy and except for some tiny checks on the end grain, in amazingly good condition. I planned on getting a LN#8 this month but I missed the most recent event.

Maybe I'll pull the wooden try for the Moravian build but I'd probably prefer one like Steve's if I was going for a serious user.




337015

[Tony Zaffuto]

Very, very nice plane Steve! Can you post a close up of the wedge and blade?

[Steve Voigt]

Very, very nice plane Steve! Can you post a close up of the wedge and blade?


Tony,

Thank you. I don't have the plane any more, but maybe Ken will snap a pic of wedge/blade; he takes better photos than I do anyway.

[Kees Heiden]

Brian, I have a large Civil War era try plane that I've never put into use. It's huge, heavy and except for some tiny checks on the end grain, in amazingly good condition. I planned on getting a LN#8 this month but I missed the most recent event.

Maybe I'll pull the wooden try for the Moravian build but I'd probably prefer one like Steve's if I was going for a serious user.




337015

That looks like a very nice plane, but it isn't it a bit long to be a try plane? It seems more like a jointer. They weren't quite the same back then, allthough pretty similar. A tryplane would be 22 to 24" long. A jointer would be longer (sometimes much longer). The jointer was primarily set up to joint edges, the tryplane would be used for flattening surfaces.

[Kevin Hampshire]

Kees, you're right. During my reply I was thinking about how I could wax the sole and use it to flatten my bench.

My BU and BD metal jointers max out at 22 inches. I was looking at a LN#8 but this 28" jointer may work.

337036

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick,

Good eye. Truth is I hadn't thought much about it. I make the planes somewhat longer than intended final length and once finished I cut them down till they are comfortable in hand while working both pull and push. Looking at some of my stored blanks the tail is slightly longer than the nose but I would expect if I were to finish them they would end up much like these.

Of course your question demanded I do some test shaving (any excuse to put plane on wood) using my shop made woodies vs. more tradition woodies vs. a metal smoother. On the push stroke there is not enough difference between the woodies to tell them apart, much the same with the metal plane other than it is metal and has a tote and knob. Of the three on the pull stroke mine works better but not by much vs. a traditional coffin smoother vs. the metal I would say working one on the pull stroke is a learned skill. I do it when needed but the little shop made plane is easier.

Thanks for the explanation! It makes sense that cutting on the pull would favor a long[er]-toed plane. My understanding is that that's why Japanese planes are proportioned the way they are.

EDIT: Get rid of part that I got wrong.

[ken hatch]

Tony,

Thank you. I don't have the plane any more, but maybe Ken will snap a pic of wedge/blade; he takes better photos than I do anyway.

Tony,

One of the opening, wedge, and iron.

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh222/VTXAZ/tryPlaneOpeningWithWedgeIron160506_zpssqxfmkxk.jpg

ken

[Stewie Simpson]

That looks like a very nice plane, but it isn't it a bit long to be a try plane? It seems more like a jointer. They weren't quite the same back then, allthough pretty similar. A tryplane would be 22 to 24" long. A jointer would be longer (sometimes much longer). The jointer was primarily set up to joint edges, the tryplane would be used for flattening surfaces.

The jointer plane (also known as the try plane or trying plane) is a type of hand plane used primarily to straighten the edges of boards in the operation known as jointing. A jointer plane may also be used to flatten the face of a board.

Technically; jointing needs to be identified as a technique or process ; that is not restricted by a hand planes length.

The Australian Carpenter & Joiner; (1958; 1966; 1975; 1981; 1985) Fifth Edition; 1985 ; Volumes 1 to 5.

Try plane ; 560mm and 610mm long with a 60mm cutter, used mostly for shooting the edge of boards that are to be jointed together, but also useful for planing large flat surfaces to a perfectly level face.

Fore plane ; 450mm long with a 60mm cutter. This also makes a reasonable good job when shooting joints and planing large flat surfaces, and is more favoured generally than the try plane because it is lighter and fits in the tool kit more easily.

Jack plane ; 355mm long with a 50mm cutter, referred to as a No.5 plane. This is the plane that does most of the rough work and is a plane for general all- round work. This plane is the first favourite with tradesmen because it can be used for roughing off surfaces, and then by setting the cutter fine, for finishing off, and can be used fairly successfully for jointing short timbers.

[Tony Zaffuto]

Thanks Ken! Very nice plane you got from Steve. The strike button is particularly, "striking"! Steve, you're very talented.

[Steve Voigt]

Thanks Tony, that's very kind of you. Like most of the younger planemakers, I ripped off the strike button detail from Larry and Don. I've never actually seen an old plane in the wild that had the diamond strike, though I'm sure Larry wouldn't have done it without some firm historical precedent.

And Ken, thanks for posting the pics. :)

[Kees Heiden]

The jointer plane (also known as the try plane or trying plane) is a type of hand plane used primarily to straighten the edges of boards in the operation known as jointing. A jointer plane may also be used to flatten the face of a board.

Technically; jointing needs to be identified as a technique or process ; that is not restricted by a hand planes length.

The Australian Carpenter & Joiner; (1958; 1966; 1975; 1981; 1985) Fifth Edition; 1985 ; Volumes 1 to 5.

Try plane ; 560mm and 610mm long with a 60mm cutter, used mostly for shooting the edge of boards that are to be jointed together, but also useful for planing large flat surfaces to a perfectly level face.

Fore plane ; 450mm long with a 60mm cutter. This also makes a reasonable good job when shooting joints and planing large flat surfaces, and is more favoured generally than the try plane because it is lighter and fits in the tool kit more easily.

Jack plane ; 355mm long with a 50mm cutter, referred to as a No.5 plane. This is the plane that does most of the rough work and is a plane for general all- round work. This plane is the first favourite with tradesmen because it can be used for roughing off surfaces, and then by setting the cutter fine, for finishing off, and can be used fairly successfully for jointing short timbers.


Aha, I should have named my source :D

I was referening to the time of Nicholson, 19th century, when the wooden plane was still king. The names of the wooden planes got quite mixed up later on. The desigantion "tryplane" was not used much anymore, so I am surprised that your Australian source prefers it over the name jointer. Here in Holland we would call them voorloper and reischaaf.

Kevin, I think you are well set for flattening your benchtop ;)