Is a Starrett a Starrett?

[Prashun Patel]

I was shopping for a cheap engineer's square online, and found

Starrett a K53-8-N for about $12.00. Do they make a low quality line of tools or is this a good buy?

[Ben Rivel]

Guess so. Now a days anyway. They probably need cheap Chinese tools on the market to stay selling to the masses as fewer and fewer people can justify their tools at the increasing prices of good quality, especially when so many people think Harbor Freight sells anything worth buying. Reviews arent great on it, but it does sound like it works: LINK (http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-K53-8-N-Stainless-Carpenters-Square/dp/B00ELMS8Q6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462219429&sr=8-1&keywords=Starrett+a+K53-8-N#customerReviews)

My suggestion: if you want Starret tools, save up your money and wait till you can buy the classics. Thats how I bought all of mine and I love them all. Top quality stuff for their tried and true product series.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm not spending $90 on a square, unless my family gets me one for Father's Day.

I like to have a bunch of squares of different lengths and markings.

While I certainly appreciate the need for square and flat, the cheap ones have not failed me so far.

[Tom Ewell]

Yeah, pretty much the same with me, I'll go to a 'good' square sent over by a machinist friend to setup equipment and the like but come time for cabinets and other woodworking projects I have many different sizes that are dependable for the job.
I always check my squares using the parallel-side-marking-opposites technique, if my eyeball says it's good, it's good.

[glenn bradley]

Amazon's got it for $10+. Starrett also make very reasonably priced metal self adhesive tapes. for quality and reasonable price I always seem to end up with PEC.

[Rick Lizek]

L.S. Starrett Co. (http://www.starrett.com/) (Athol, MA): precision tools, including micrometers, calipers, levels, dial indicators, and gage blocks. Many still made in USA at facilities in MA, OH, MN, and NC. Some products made overseas, so check origin.

They do import from China as well.


http://www.productsengineering.com/squares/index.html PEC are just as good as Starrett and mostly made in the US.
http://grizzly.com/products/4-pc-Combination-Square-12-/G5726 I bought this for $30 6 years ago because I didn't want to bring my Starrett or Mitutoyo 4 pice set to work. I found hit to be just as accurate. A friend in Quality Control compared them on an Optical Comparator and it passed to get certification.
http://www.amazon.com/Woodstock-D4030-Combination-Square/dp/B005W16MKO
Here's the same square from Woodstock for $56.
Come on...it's woodworking. Not making space shuttle parts.

[Cody Colston]

Krenov made his own squares out of wood because he wanted to eliminate as much metal around his bench as possible...bad for plane irons, chisel edges, etc. His thought was that they were as accurate as they needed to be for woodworking.

I bought a couple of engineer's squares from Rockler years ago, primarily for machine set-up. For woodworking, I most often use a cheap combination square I got at the box store. I don't even know the brand.

[Glenn de Souza]

Are you familiar with the Harry J. Epstein company? If not, check them out. They deal in a lot of factory seconds, mostly with minor cosmetic issues. You can do much better than a "cheap" square and not break the bank. I've bought a few PEC squares there that were accurate out of the box, and some very nice UK made rules and straightedges also. I tried a couple of engineer's squares but had to true both of them up to be accurate. Those were made in India, and maybe the eight year old kid that made them was having an off day.

Also, while you didn't ask about it, I might add that truing up a sliding type square is very easy with a needle file and a gentle touch. Hope this is useful to you,

[Chris Padilla]

Plastic squares/triangle from the art supply store. Single digit dollars for a pair of 'em. :)

I know, not exactly a square but handy for the money.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I'll let you know in a few projects how well Starrett's Chinese imports work. My new Starrett 16' tape measure from Amazon delivered this morning.

[David C. Roseman]

I'll let you know in a few projects how well Starrett's Chinese imports work. My new Starrett 16' tape measure from Amazon delivered this morning.

Ken, I'm betting you'll be happy with it. The dozen or so HF freebie 25' tape measures I've checked out of curiosity are just as accurate as my made-in-the USA Lufkins and Stanleys. My guess is Starrett insists on better quality control than HF. :)

[Chris Fournier]

I bought a right proper Starrett combo square (protractor and centre finder incl.) 23 years ago, heck made in the USA even. $168.00 at the time. Looking at it makes me shiver to this day. Money well spent. I have engineers square a plenty, never paid more than $20.00 for one and they are plenty accurate.

Buy what you can afford and feel comfortable with as they will all get you where you need to be.

I too have a box store try square that I bought when I was framing houses to pay for university but it is a site tool for me. The tensioner wore out so I re-welded and machined it to make sure that this old work horse would see me through to the end of my days. It is plenty accurate to this day.

Moral of the story? A bit weak but when it comes to FWW I like to use fine tools. It's a package deal!

My aluminum framing squares can be tuned with a nail set and a hammer when needed. That's fine by me too.

[Greg R Bradley]

Just because Starrett make some really good tools does NOT mean that all Starrett tools are good. Some are pretty poor.

[John Gornall]

I have a top of the line Starret combination square set - regular head, center head, protractor head and rule - Made in Scotland

[Rich Engelhardt]

I was shopping for a cheap engineer's square online, and found

Starrett a K53-8-N for about $12.00. Do they make a low quality line of tools or is this a good buy?
Pass on it.
I ran across those at Hartville Hardware a couple years back - before they moved to the new store.
I asked the sales guy to pull a good adjustable square out of the display case so we could check the trueness of the K53-8-N. We went through about 10 of them on the display peg and they were all so far out of square it was pathetic.

The sales guy was rather shocked they were that bad. He said he was going to talk to the manager about pulling them off the shelf.

[Ed Edwards]

fyi
eD

L. S. Starrett Company (NYSE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_Stock_Exchange): SCX (https://www.nyse.com/quote/XNYS:SCX)) is an American (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) manufacturer of tools and instruments used by machinists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machinist) and tool and die makers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_and_die_maker). The company was founded when businessman and inventor Laroy Sunderland Starrett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laroy_Sunderland_Starrett) (1836–1922) bought the Athol Machine Company in 1905. The company patented such items as the sliding combination square (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_square), bench vises (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vise_(tool)), and a shoe hook fastener. They make precision steel rules (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruler) and tapes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tape_measure), calipers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliper), micrometers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micrometer), and dial indicators (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dial_indicator), among many other things.
Starrett employs about 2,000 people worldwide and the company claims to be the last remaining full-line precision tool company to be manufacturing their products within the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States).[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._S._Starrett_Company#cite_note-1) However, much of the firm's manufacturing takes place at facilities in the People's Republic of China (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China), Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil), Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany), and the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK), with 28% of Starret's worldwide sales being in Brazil in 2013.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._S._Starrett_Company#cite_note-2)[3] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._S._Starrett_Company#cite_note-3)

[Rich Riddle]

Prashun, Fine Woodworking completed reviews a few years back and highly recommended the PEC squares for folks not wanting to spend tons of money on Starrett squares. I purchased several squares made by PEC and couldn't be happier. They are made up north in the USA.

[Larry Edgerton]

I'm not spending $90 on a square, unless my family gets me one for Father's Day.

I like to have a bunch of squares of different lengths and markings.

While I certainly appreciate the need for square and flat, the cheap ones have not failed me so far.

I don't know Prashun, there is something about using a quality layout tool that I think you would really like. I have Mitutoyo in the shop adn I would have it no other way. I use cheaper stuff on site, and I always like coming back to the shop and my precision squares. I bought mine at yard sales used for about half.

[Frederick Skelly]

I dropped $120 on a Starrett combo square about 2 years ago. I also have a set of made-in-India machinist squares and one Woodpecker square. I've tested the all of them for squareness, and they are all quite good. But I've never, not once, regretted buying that Starrett. Even though my eyes can't see any difference in accuracy between it and the others. I don't really know why - I don't believe I need aircraft industry accuracy for woodworking. But I trust that Starrett as my best measuring tool.

[Robert Engel]

I bought a K53-8-N Starrett 8" carpenters square like this one (http://www.amazon.com/Starrett-K53-8-N-Stainless-Carpenters-Square/dp/B00ELMS8Q6).

1/2 way through a project, I discovered it was almost 1/32" out in 8".

Needless to say, I was surprised because I figured "hey its a Starrett."

I'm betting its made in China I don't know why reputable companies do this.

[William Adams]

I guess I do need to but that Starrett sliding steel bevel after all.

[Ben Rivel]

Interesting to read how many different products they have that arent made in the USA. Every Starrett tool I have was bought in the last 1-2 years and they all say Made in the USA on them. I had read they were out sourcing some newer products and cheaper series but hadnt seen any of it myself so I figured it was a very small percentage. But from what some of you guys are saying it sounds like a bit more. Or perhaps that percentage is increasing. That would be sad indeed.

[Howard Acheson]

Starrett markets a line of tools called their "carpenters" line. They are made for woodworkers and are not the quality of their well know "machinist" line. That said, the "carpenter" line should be perfectly adequate for woodworkers. The machinist line tri-square sells new for about $85 dollars.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm going to do it and report back.

[Izzy Camire]

I took the suggestion last month to look at the Harry Epstein website for the PEC squares. I bought a 6" double square delivered to the house for $22. The only blemish on it was a scratch. I checked it against my other squares including the my 12" Starrett combo square and it is right on. I felt it was a good deal.

[Ellen Benkin]

I buy genuine Starretts on ebay. Sometimes used and sometimes new. I also like the Pecs.

[Glenn de Souza]

I don't know Prashun, there is something about using a quality layout tool that I think you would really like. I have Mitutoyo in the shop adn I would have it no other way. I use cheaper stuff on site, and I always like coming back to the shop and my precision squares. I bought mine at yard sales used for about half.

I couldn't agree more. I suppose it depends on how each person works, but I've come to rely on having a little Starrett 4" double square by my side. I use it as much for layout and marking as for checking square. The PEC version from HJE is only $14.00. Veritas makes what looks like a good one that is less than a new Starrett.

Not long ago on an impulse buy, I bought a Shinwa Japanese combination square from Amazon for about $18 or $20. Just like the Japanese saws, at first it was a trip, because it's so different in design and concept from the traditional squares, but now that I'm used to it, I've come to love it.

[Brett Luna]

I too bought a Starrett 12-inch set and was so happy with it, I turned around and bought the 6- and 4-inch models and an 18-inch blade in pretty short order. Squareness is one thing to be sure but just as important to me is the blade being readable. I'm nowhere near blind but the peepers aren't what they used to be. I can read the markings on all four edges, even the 64ths. I've heard good things about the PEC squares but never laid hands or eyes on 'em. If I need a spare one day, I might just give one a try.

[Robert Engel]

Pass on it.
I ran across those at Hartville Hardware a couple years back - before they moved to the new store.
I asked the sales guy to pull a good adjustable square out of the display case so we could check the trueness of the K53-8-N. We went through about 10 of them on the display peg and they were all so far out of square it was pathetic.

The sales guy was rather shocked they were that bad. He said he was going to talk to the manager about pulling them off the shelf.

1/2 way into a project I discovered mine was almost 1/32 out in 8".
Very surprised I thought since it was a Starrett it would be the most accurate square I have.

[Bob Falk]

Amazon's got it for $10+. Starrett also make very reasonably priced metal self adhesive tapes. for quality and reasonable price I always seem to end up with PEC.
I bought these tapes for a miter saw stand I am building. The tapes are not accurate throughout their length. Using a machined Woodpeckers ruler, I found that the distance between 1' and 2' was not the same as between the 2' and 3' (off by more than 1/32").....I wasted my money and will now have to replace with something else.
I guess Starrett has gone the way of so many American tool manufacturers....

[Prashun Patel]

I received my Starrett low-price squares. They are as good (read, as bad) as my previous squares.

They line up perfectly (that is, by eye) with each other and with my existing squares.

My personal test for the accuracy is to use take a verified s4s piece (verified with a trusted square) and then checking all four intersections with the new square, and finally striking a square shoulder around the entire piece. If the end hits the beginning perfectly, I call it good. These both passed.

I suppose I lucked out.


Prashun

[Brian Backner]

Prashun, Fine Woodworking completed reviews a few years back and highly recommended the PEC squares for folks not wanting to spend tons of money on Starrett squares. I purchased several squares made by PEC and couldn't be happier. They are made up north in the USA.

Has there been a major tectonic plate shift that moved India to North America?

[Greg R Bradley]

Has there been a major tectonic plate shift that moved India to North America?
The PEC Machinist Squares are made in Torrance, California. I know someone that works there and have been through the factory.

They also make high quality metrology products for several other companies such as Mitutoyo and Fowler.

Woodcraft squares were made by them but they switched to cheaper manufacturers later. So if someone had the idea that Woodcraft's were PEC and then later saw a poorer Woodcraft square made in India, then I could see how someone would assume that.

PEC also sells some Solid Squares that are made in India which also confuses the matter.